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After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

((LadyG)) You are a a decent person whether you are literally by his side or not. You don't have to continue letting him be a part of your life. I'm so sorry this is where you are finding yourself.

GMC - Congratulations! So happy that you've found a job and can start building your independence again. Whatever choices you make in the future, this is awesome!

Thrownaway, have you ever read Pema Chodron's When Things Fall Apart? I think IC would still be good. Even if you don't miss WH or grieve the marriage, you still have that anger at the years spent in a lie (totally justified). Would be nice to find a way to release it and move forward into your new life.

You guys, I really need to stop googling the AP. Seriously. How do I stop?? She has a new interview out - where she literally says that in life and business she follows her ethics with no exceptions, that when she makes a mistake, she owns it and apologizes, that having BOUNDARIES are so important and that she and her family live life to make the world a better place for others. I mean I really really really hate that she's building her "brand", getting all of this press and attention in her field and continually using the words like authentic and honest. Karma, WHERE ARE YOU???

ETA: The only silver lining from reading that BS is that I definitively know that she's a narcissist and that she has ZERO remorse. So I can continue hating her and wishing the karma bus to run her over without any guilt.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 9:47 AM, February 5th (Friday)]

After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

I don't say it often. In the 18 months or so since DD 2, maybe 10-15 times? I say it when I feel it, never because he said it. I think it took about 4-5 months to say it the first time. He was traveling internationally and I felt like if he died, I would feel guilty if he still thought I hated his guts. Honestly, every day I love him like a buddy. Very rarely do I love him like I used to. So when I feel THAT kind of love, is when I say it.

You guys, I really need to stop googling the AP. Seriously. How do I stop?? She has a new interview out - where she literally says that in life and business she follows her ethics with no exceptions, that when she makes a mistake, she owns it and apologizes, that having BOUNDARIES are so important and that she and her family live life to make the world a better place for others. I mean I really really really hate that she's building her "brand", getting all of this press and attention in her field and continually using the words like authentic and honest. Karma, WHERE ARE YOU???

Do you still have any evidence of the infidelity? Could you anonymously send it to your local newspaper?

I get all the arguments against that, but screw her and her hypocrisy. Hell send it to me and I'll blow her up!!

Do you still have any evidence of the infidelity? Could you anonymously send it to your local newspaper?

I get all the arguments against that, but screw her and her hypocrisy. Hell send it to me and I'll blow her up!!

As a Texan I have to admit I’m pretty curious. Sounds like someone who needs a reality check.

Oh TX... so sorry you are dealing with that. I'm with Ellie & Unstuffed. Expose her if you can do it w/o hurting yourself.

Red:

After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

I think TX put it pretty well as I would:

I say it when I feel it, never because he said it...... Honestly, every day I love him like a buddy. Very rarely do I love him like I used to. So when I feel THAT kind of love, is when I say it.

I will still say it, but ONLY when I feel it. My WH still says "I love you" when we hang up the phone. It's gone from 100% to maybe 40-60% of the time, but it still kind of pisses me off. He'd say that when he was on his way to see his sidepiece. It no longer has any meaning for me, and it's not as if he's done any hard digging / work or communicate he now has anything close to a different understanding of "love".

Just a couple of weeks ago we got into a tiff and he shouted (which is unusual for him) "you're saying I am incapable of love" and I replied "if love is lying to your wife for 25 years, then I don't want any part of it" (not the first time we've had that exchange). And I guess the truth is I don't believe someone with his lack of candor & honesty IS capable of loving someone...

Anywho... my $0.02 on the "love" thang.

Have a great weekend Ladiez!

I tell my WH that I love him, but I don’t like him.

Before he became a Cheater, I liked him a lot

TX1995?

I would happily go blow up the AP’s world

You have my number, just let me know how you want it done

She has a new interview out - where she literally says that in life and business she follows her ethics with no exceptions, that when she makes a mistake, she owns it and apologizes, that having BOUNDARIES are so important and that she and her family live life to make the world a better place for others.

OMG, TX, this gall of this woman. Disgusting. I will happily volunteer to bring her ass down.

After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

I couldn't tell my ex I loved him after dday. He said it a lot and would often ask me if I loved him. I would say, yes, even though I didn't mean it or want to. What I felt was trapped and traumatized and addicted to the relationship, not what I would call love.

Happy weekend Goddesses!

So I am taking the plunge and going to interview a new IC. My son has just been diagnosed with a form of OCD...so decision made I need some help.

My question is what do I ask her? Any ideas for good questions to make sure she is knowledgeable and versed in Infidelity and my other host of crap going in my life?

After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

I never really stopped because it’s true, I think for a long time I loved him more than he loved himself. I have days that I don’t like him but, they are getting farther apart. We still have a LOT of work to do.

Y'all are the best. The Strangers on a Train thing has been very tempting over the years. My best friends is in the same industry as AP (though on different coasts) and is hoping one day to cross paths with AP and tell her that she's my best friend upon introduction or let it slip if asked about her. :)

I don't out her for a few reasons, mainly selfish. First, my kids. They know, but where we live is a very gossipy land and unfortunately the AP has mutual friends and other co-workers of WH are in our community as well. I do NOT want whispers going around while my kids are in school. I've seen it happen and the poor kids walk around with their parents' shame. Second, I don't want my WH's job affected. Unfortunately though it was an equal opportunity affair, and both are at fault, I guarantee people would see it in a #Metoo kind of way as this AP is VERY vocal about empowering women, unconcious bias towards women, etc. In our society, the scorned spouse who outs an affair is usually characterized as bitter and crazy. I just don't want to deal with any of that personally. A distant third is her family. She has two kids that are old enough NOW to know what is going on if they see something or over hear something. Her husband, while I do not think he considers me or my family (he has his head in the sand), is also in the same field and since she literally works for his buddy, it would definitely be embarrassing for him. She's publicly adored her H for years (including screwing my H and then posting the next day about how lucky she was to be married to her H) and since he knows, I don't want to be a party to publicly humiliating him. NOW, if she ever ever tries to contact me or WH or says one thing negative about my H (she actually does the opposite ), then I will be publicly posting the emails I have with her waxing poetic about the passion she had with my WH and how she thought shed be a great stepmom to my kids.

As a Texan I have to admit I’m pretty curious.

Ha, she actually used to work at the paper and gets her name in it bc of her connections there. However, it's notoriety in her field. Kind of like how an academic in their field is well known - in their field. So no public figure like a celebrity or politician. Unfortunately her field is adjacent to my WH's and in the same industry.

But I have y'all in my pocket should I ever decide to divorce WH after the kids are out of HS and the AP is still self-promoting. My BFF says karma will come, so I'm counting on that dammit!!!

Throwaway - so glad you are looking for a new IC. I hope it will help propel you. Funny enough, there was just an episode of the Helping Couples Heal podcast talking about finding a counselor. Now, mind you it was ;mainly about couples finding therapists, but did talk about interviewing them. Find out about what their training and certifications are, but also ask questions about methods to achieve YOUR goals. I've been hearing good things about ART therapy (similar to EMDR) so asking questions like what types of therapy they've used, are skilled in are good as well. Good luck!!

TX I will blow 👏 this 👏 bitch 👏 up 👏 if you ever need me to.

My dream job is being the driver of the karma bus. Beep beep motherfuckers 😂

Hope all you glorious gals are doing well this fine weekend!

My IC choice was heavily influenced by location, my insurance and EMDR. Now the insurance is trying to flake out on me.

Ellie - Love the karma bus driver mental picture!

Unstuffed - This is my #1 problem. We are limited to those on our insurance AND sometimes insurance only covers X number of visits without a diagnosis. The last IC I had was a specialist, CSAT, betrayed spouse herself, but not on insurance. WH and I spent $150 out of pocket WEEKLY plus costs for diagnostics. It's crazy expensive, especially if you want a PhD or MD, and are at the mercy of a list provided by your insurer. My sister is a PhD who only works with certain insurers bc of some of their strict guidelines for reimbursement. And dealing with the $ part doesn't even cover the PITA it is to get a hold of some of these therapists or get into an appointment. THEN they might not be a good fit and you start all over. It's why I'm currently NOT in IC, nor am I looking.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 9:47 AM, February 8th (Monday)]

I’m working about 15 miles from the town where OW2 lives today. Chances of me running into her are about zero but, hostile thoughts are resurfacing. Started my day with a foggy 1 1/2 hour drive in the dark then an equipment failure. All for what will probably be a very slow day with very little work to do.

Red,

I’d rather tell you “I love you” over my ex. And we have never met.

I am going through a phase of being rather disgusted with him. That tends to come in waves. In a tsunami right now

My kids are still hurting and struggling with their relationship with him.

TX, I am happy to help blow up the AP of you ever need help. I can make karma international.

Hope all you fabulous womenz are doing just fine and can kick back with a drink from time to time.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 8:08 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]

After DD how many times have you told the WS you love them? Does it seem harder to say? Does it get easier to say and mean?

I can’t recall how many times I said those words but I stopped saying that as WH thought that he still had a chance of R. I Realise now that I have fallen out of love and now I find it hard to say and feel.

After the recent TT and confession sessions, I withdrew my earlier forgiveness and have vowed to NEVER EVER FORGET OR FORGIVE WH for the abuse and betrayal. I am starting to once again dislike him with every fibre of my being. I am back to feeling revulsion for him and his actions.

Throwaway - WRT the IC.... personally, I've found that a SOLID background (training AND experience) in TRAUMA is the best route. If you can find a good CSAT, that's great (assuming they operate from the relational betrayal model), but they are hard to find and often not on insurance.

IME, whether the IC is a PhD, LCSW, or LPC has not mattered much (eg I spent almost two years with a PhD that represented as infidelity experience, who was not very good).

The trauma is really the elephant in the room - and IMO the cause hasn't mattered as much as the symptom - KWIM?

In the past, I've gravitated toward older/more experienced IC. After the last 3 years of this shitshow of being a BS, I've come to believe that only applies if the IC has really maintained their training and availed themself of the last 10+ years of good PTSD information. My current IC is amazeballs and has been out of school about 10+ years (it's only been in the last 10-20 years that training in trauma was a requirement for those training to do clinical work).

So - my questions for a new IC would be about their education, experience, and post-clinical training in trauma, what forms of treatment they use for trauma (eg emdr or simply talk). IME, I was able to "fill in" the infidelity pieces, via books and the podcasts with Breecker & Osterlind (eg helping couples heal). So, there may be times I'm kind of educating my IC on the infidelity perspectives, but that has really been pretty limited in that the focus is (and IMO should be) on ME and how I'm learning to manage the damn lizard brain that's gone haywire.