SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bigger, that's as immature as what I was thinking. Just agree to it and go have sex with four times the people he can pull but not have to pay for it like he does. Then once he's really all torn up about it, kick his ass out and divorce. Absolute middle-finger raised f#ck you divorce.

But the mature way is to recognize who this man is and save yourself any further suffering at his hands and tell him that yes, he absolutely should leave.

Adding to Bigger's funny suggestion, on the second occasion, tell him you have a friend whose husband's fantasy has always been a FFM threesome and you plan to spend the weekend with that couple making his fantasy a reality. Thank him again for the open marriage and tell him that you're having so much fun.

This is familiar. I never agreed to open marriage . Yet my ex lived like we did. He actually patted my bottom. Living in pure joy saying how great our marriage is.

I was spending a lot of time in icu with our new critically ill grandbaby. Our first grandbaby. He used the free time to step up the cheating. This isn’t about needs. It’s about wants. Wants with no consideration or boundaries.

There was nothing I could tell myself. It was rock bottom. The mistake I often made was that I thought things would stay the same. I survived Maybe I could continue to live it I was not happy. But I survived. Could I live in an open marriage?

Things do not stay the same. They amp up. Bitterness anger hate shock no boundaries. I did not agree to any of this. Exwh created opportunity while I was in icu with the baby The true lowest of lows. And he was happier then he ever been

There was nothing left. Zero. He did not stay the same. It was never enough. He wanted more. He discarded me the next day for his 10 month AP. I let him go. It was shocking and painful that my husband could stoop so low. I couldn’t wrap my head around who he really was. I still struggle with it. He’s the meanest person I’ve ever met. Who knew. He became worse over time. It was an addiction

If they want others. Let them go. You deserve more. Surviving does not equal happiness.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 10:36 AM, April 23rd (Friday)]

I can't disagree with bftg more than I do.

I absolutely think threatening an FFM 3-some is out of line. Threaten MFM first. Then FFM.

Simply file for D and have him served and get rid of this loser.

An open marriage does not work for me. I had one. I just didn't know it. I am divorcing. No hard feelings.

Onward to what I want. One woman one man hot monogamy. I don't think aside from hb I could even have lukewarm with wh. I was not into things he wanted I don't share my husband knowingly. Some people are. Some people do.

Someone once told me open marriage wouldn't be for them. They said "I don't share my toys."

I found it helped me to get super honest with my non negotiable needs and know 💯 I could have what I wanted.

A good woman should never debase herself by staying with a piece of shit of a man.

Similarly, a good man should never debase himself by staying with a piece of shit of a woman.

You are far too good for this scumbag, StuckinBetween. I am sorry he cannot see what a rare gem he has found in his life. In a world where woman think dressing like harlots, twerking like hoes, and behaving like sluts is "sexy", a woman like yourself is as rare as a painite.

In my opinion: let the sleezebag go and drown himself in a sea of sluts. He belongs in that sea, for he is a sea urchin. You are leagues above this broken animal.

What is it that YOU want? If you were single, and you started dating a new partner and he asked you no strings attached, do you want an open relationship or a closed one, which one would you choose?

Open relationships don't work without trust and honesty. After cheating, it takes a long time to repair the damage to even consider a healthy open relationship. This man doesn't sound like he is willing to put in the work.

Open relationships are not less work; they are more work. Do you want to put in that extra effort for this man? What is he going to do to make himself a safe partner for you?

I don't think anything is wrong per se with someone needing to get their sexual needs met elsewhere. People do grow and change, and if he had been honest about this from the start, I'd say that you have a decision to make- whether you want to end the relationship or change the model from Closed to Open. If you are considering this, I would highly recommend that you speak to a Kink-Aware professional who can help your husband understand that this isn't just legitimized cheating. This is a commitment to openness and honesty in addition to getting his needs met.

Things to consider:

- him letting you know where and when and who he is with, for safety reasons

- who is financing the cost of getting together with other partners? This shouldn't be coming out of marital funds

- is he neglecting other household or familial responsibilities to get his sexual needs met?

- do you also want to get sexual needs met elsewhere, or do you want a certain amount of time carved out for you as well to pursue something that matters to you?

- what your safer sex boundaries will be

- what your emotional boundaries will be (i.e. open or poly)

- requiring honesty with his other partners, because ethical nonmonogamy means with everyone

If that list looks daunting... consider that it's just a start and there is much more you'd want to talk about. If your gut reaction is negative, TRUST IT.

It's OK to want monogamy. It's OK to want a closed marriage. It's also OK for him to ask... but if you can't trust him now, what makes you think you can trust him to hold to any of these other agreements? And you deserve so much better than sitting at home wondering what he is lying to you about now.

There is a LOT of bad information/misinformation posted in this thread about open relationships. Which is not too surprising given the venue. But the bottom like is that they don't work unless BOTH partners want to open the relationship, and are willing to do the work on themselves and on their relationship. Otherwise, you're just sticking a band-aid on a broken bone, and it's going to keep hurting until you finally deal with it one way or the other. "Relationship broken; add more people" is terrible advice.

[This message edited by PSTI at 6:29 PM, April 23rd (Friday)]

PSTI wouldn't you agree that someone who has already cheated doesn't seem to really have the capacity for the type of radical honesty and openness that a healthy open marriage requires?

Speaking as a BS who's ws decided that 'we' needed to have an 'open' marriage only after he decided to cheat, I can categorically say for my situation that opening my marriage at that point never would have worked. He had already proven that honesty was not something he could do.

EllieKMAS, categorically.

I apologize if that was unclear from my post. I thought I was emphasizing that point but perhaps not strongly enough.

To have a successful open relationship after infidelity, not only do you have to actually repair the damage of the infidelity FIRST, before openinh the marriage, and getting to a place where you consider the marriage healthy and reconciled, but then you have to actually negotiate building an honest, and healthy open relationship, and deal with all the issues that raises. And BOTH partners have to actively want the relationship open for it to have a good chance of success.

The overwhelming majority of the time, I don't see that working. Pretty much anyone who is willing and able to put in that work would have asked for the open relationship BEFORE cheating.

I included all the other comments in my post to reiterate that an open relationship is not merely legitimate cheating, which I think is what OP's husband would believe it to be.

Also, a relationship is NOT open because someone is cheating, and I always bristle when I read that someone said they were in an open relationship and just didn't know it because that's not how this works. Cheaters cheat. Open relationships are ethical. They are not the same thing (although yes you can cheat in an open marriage too).

[This message edited by PSTI at 7:25 PM, April 23rd (Friday)]

He is not marriage material. I don’t know what makes some people like this. They might be born this or they might have been made this way but either way they are this way. You can’t change him. You can’t guilt him into being different than he is. This is who he was, who he is, who he will be. You can’t change him.

Thanks PSTI for clarifying.

And just my 0.02 as a firmly monogamous person who dealt with a similar situation to OP, I don't personally believe that a marriage can be opened after cheating in any sort of healthy way. I can't imagine ever being okay with it after having been cheated on. That's maybe just me, but the damage done by infidelity is so very hard to recover from, and would be triggering for the BS even if fully reconciled.

That’s the thing. While intellectually I can handle the idea of an open marriage I do feel it takes a certain kind of people and a tremendous amount of trust to work. I don’t imagine I will ever feel full trust again with him (and probably haven’t since I can remember - perhaps the illusion of trust through brief forgetting).

It seems my choices are: accept this idea of open marriage, accept that he will always be likely to cheat (probably both at once if I agreed to #1) or turn myself into the kind of sexual being who meets his every need without him seeing any negative feelings in me (somehow magically). None of these options feels good. The last option - divorce - still feels worse, though. It’s one thing for me to be in this situation. Quite another to throw it all onto the kids.

The last option - divorce - still feels worse, though.

Why?

What is it your fear?

I’m not suggesting you divorce, but I strongly recommend you learn all you can about what D really is. Talk to a friend that divorced, google the law in your state, phone a woman’s help-line, talk to an attorney.

I have a feeling that once you can tell your spouse that you are no longer afraid of divorce is the moment he might change into r-material.

I know you're worried about how a divorce would impact your kids and that's a really valid fear.

But flip the script. How would being in an open marriage that you don't want to be in affect them? How would it affect them seeing their mom living a life that goes against her values? How would it affect them seeing their dad cheat on their mom and them? And eventually finding out that their mom gave him permission to do so?

If YOU don't want an open marriage, then you are not required to live in one. I said it earlier in this thread - open marriages require radical honesty and communication and trust. None of which your wh has shown you or proven to be capable of.

Your post has thrown me back in time when I shared my gaslight hell with another BS and she shared her story. Her story is so similar to yours that I want to share it as a cautionary tale.

So going to paraphrase and mess up the time line a little but in a nutshell:

- She was over-worked, had young kids, no interest in sex. Blamed herself for lack of sex though to me it seems she was doing EVERYTHING by herself on the domestic front.

- He started complaining about the lack of sex and eventually he told her he was opening the marriage up, not even a ultimatum, so she agreed because "it was just sex" and "he loved her".

- Pretty quickly he stopped spending weekends with the family because that was "his time", he even slept around even on holidays picked women up at the hotel bar where the family was staying ().

- One day he didn't come home, he left to go to his "FWB" and simply didn't come home. He left woman and kids for "FWB" because he had "fallen in love" (can I get a 'L' for limerence Charlie.)

- Threw back in her face that she never loved him because if she did she would never agree to an open marriage. He basically rewrote history

and shifted blame back on her for letting him cheat

After reading your post I just want to grab your hand and remind you that agreeing to a open marriage is ultimately letting him "date". Your WH sounds like a weak person, no boundaries or control, if sex is just so frickin' important and thrilling to him that he needs to seek out OW what is going to happen when he gets hooked on NRE and limerence with one of them? Where does that leave you?

He is keeping you around because you're comfortable, you're "safe", you're the back-up. He has made you the room mate, a friend, the safe port while he shares his excitements and thrills with strangers.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 11:01 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]

But flip the script. How would being in an open marriage that you don't want to be in affect them? How would it affect them seeing their mom living a life that goes against her values? How would it affect them seeing their dad cheat on their mom and them? And eventually finding out that their mom gave him permission to do so?

I'd like to add to this that even though kids don't know all of the details, it doesn't stop them from being affected by their parents' tension and poor mental health.

Have you ever walked into a room and felt tension so thick that you could cut it with a butter knife? I'm betting at the time, you probably didn't know all the reasons for it. But you still felt it. The other people in the room - whether friends, colleagues, parents, or siblings - had this uncomfortable air about them. Maybe they were pretending to act normal for your sake but something about how they smiled with pained eyes or were more quiet than usual or said something in an off tone keyed you in that things weren't normal. Kids feel this too. Kids also tend to come up with theories as to why it's happening. Sometimes, they blame themselves for their parents' issues when they don't understand why the tension is there.

Children do best when at least ONE parent is present, happy, and stable. If you make either choice you've outlined in order to stay married, neither one allows either of you to be present, stable, and happy. If he gets his way, he will be spending more energy courting new partners than he will be on the kids which includes all of the drama of new relationships. He will not be present when he is caught up in all that. You will not be present or happy as you spend more time worrying and dealing with the fallout of his choices. Your family home will not be stable because new partners are also new threats to your marriage. What happens if he thinks he's fallen in love and she pushes him to leave you for her? The D that you were trying to avoid happens anyways. If you choose to try and fulfill his every need, it goes without saying that it will take up the bulk of your energy. It also has no guarantee of working because his "needs" include having sex with people who aren't you. There's a high risk of more infidelity which again means neither you or him are present, happy,or stable.

If you leave, you can be the present, happy, stable parent. How much time do you spend with your kids now? How many hours are spent entirely on THEM? Not thinking about your WH and his issues. Not dealing with the emotional upheaval from his infidelity. How much of your undivided attention are they receiving?

Obviously the best outcome is that you R and both of you can be present, happy, and stable. But he's not giving you that choice right now. If you start the process of detaching (the 180) and moving towards separation, he MIGHT change his mind and commit to R. And if he doesn't, he sure as hell was not going to while you tried to cater to him at your own expense so nothing would be lost. You don't have to run out and file for D but you absolutely should start on that list Bigger gave you because you could find yourself D whether you want it or not.

Stuck~

Based on your options that you outline, I also agree that you should seek a consultation from a lawyer and get answers to some of your fears about divorce.

PSTI brings up very valid points as do others about the extreme level of trust that is required in poly relationships. I saw Altered States on HBO last nite that did a segment on them. One couple mentioned how they discussed it for over a year.

They mentioned this term several times:

There's actually a word for the joyful feeling that a polyamorous person has when his or her lover or spouse walks through the door after spending the afternoon making love to his or her new girlfriend or boyfriend: compersion. Compersion is such a novel concept that you won't even find the word in the dictionary (unless you look in the Urban dictionary).

I’m guessing this is a fundamental requirement for a poly relationship to be successful. You have already told him that you are monogamous. The above concept doesn’t compute for my brain. Sounds like it would not for you either.

He is a cheater. That is what he truly wants. And for you to allow and wait at home having swept the rug clean.

Also, the above show had children involved, middle school and young/preteen age maybe. The other partner came to both houses, etc. Meals together, photos of everyone, shared holidays. NO hiding from the children as age appropriate.

You deserve better. ☮️

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 11:46 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]

turn myself into the kind of sexual being who meets his every need

Try not to think like this. It's not possible and you will still be stressed out about it if you tried. You should be naturally, authenticly YOU not some forced version of what you think is his ideal you is...will never work. Maybe you were not serious with this comment though.

If you are not comfortable with an open marriage, then don't live in one.

Ask yourself right now "am I comfortable?" If the answer is "no" then I think you should take control of your situation. I know that D is terrifying (ask me how I know). I have 2 daughters. They are close to college and one needs a car. I know how hard it is.

It does not hurt to talk to an attorney. Talking to an attorney is not divorcing. Know your options. Also, if you start the process now it will probably take 3 to 6 months (I started 12/23/2020...I'm about 85% there). You can stop the divorce at any time.

I'm a fan of D in a situation like yours. It's either going to snap him out of it or start the process of setting yourself free, win win. I honestly don't think you can lose...if you file, then decide later that you CAN live in an open marriage, then stop the process. Of course you'll be out a few $g in leg fees...but if it gets you to a better place it may be worth it.

IMO it is only an open marriage when both partners take advantage of the openness. Or the H gets a thrill when his W dates (I know a couple like this)

If one is dating random people and the other is at home, it ain't open...not sure what it is.