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Wow. Coco thank you. Beautiful post and more food for thought.

Well WBF called last night. We spoke on the phone for an hour and half. Has ended relationship with OW (I had deducted that from her IG account....no happy posts).

He regrets ever getting involved with her because the price was our relationship. It wasn’t worth it.

He’s sorry .... but I told him I don’t sense any remorse. Told him I know he’s TT and don’t trust him at all. Since lying ... I can’t trust him. So it’s all great you love me, ended things .... but what is the truth???

I’m not in love anymore. What does he have to offer me? The rosy glasses are off and being by myself is easier than dealing with bullshit.

I will not settle nor twist myself into a pretzel. I have no interest in checking phones, emails, tracking devices. I would rather leave.

I am just catching up here. Not much to add - actually had a good past few days. So...

FUCK TUESDAYS!

Thank you ladies for the amazing conversation. Dee and TX

Keep typing .... because your words mean a lot to me. I’m learning. Please guide w your wisdom.

I told WBF that I’m concerned he lacks depth. He’s not comfortable having deep conversations. I notice if I get vulnerable he breaks the conversation off. I can tell when I knock him off balance .... he gets quiet. Silence. Crickets.

Oh joy to Tuesday

(((Coco))) I'm so sorry

I was in love with the image he presented to me, not his true self that he had kept hidden. It was easy to leave the real him because the man I married had already died.

The H that I fell in love with died a long time ago. It was me that couldn't see the truth for so long, or didn't want to.

I think the red flag is when you see that they are lacking emotional depth - or the wherewithal to discuss it, and you let it slide because everything else looks good on paper.

Absolutely my STBX always said to me that he is doing the best that he can with the skills that he has (or I should say lack thereof). One thing with my STBX he is a big talker. Big ideas that never come to fruition. Big money plans thinks he's going to be a multi-millionaire He will tell you he is such a good person look at how he takes care of a family or how he takes care of his clients how he works so hard at being a good dad He's only been a great dad these last 5 years after False R.

All words no action.

Yup crazy all words no actions. Tells you everything. I think the idea of potential (for me) rosy colors the fake part.

As far as settling, I thought more about this...settling for someone who leaves dirty clothes on the floor is different than settling for someone who when you ask what they are thinking, always says NOTHING or Oh, just thinking about this problem at work. My WH NEVER and I mean NEVER had a thought about a negative emotion that he shared. In going through IC he actually almost never HAD thoughts about negative emotions. It went: have bad feeling, don't like that feeling, push it down, pretend things are fine, make a joke, have a drink, answer emails, mow the lawn, fold clothes, pay bills, masturabte or have sex, flirt with a woman, feel better. Seriously. He didn't know how to allow himself to have feelings.

Mine did share sometimes, but he also did a lot of what you're saying. Make a joke, have a drink, mow the lawn, etc. Once the "high" of me wore off, the sharing of feelings stopped almost completely. That was quite confusing at the time. I think I fear that the most. It didn't start with him being afraid to share his feelings. He shared and we did have serious emotional conversations. We had a lot of them, sometimes for hours. I think that's my biggest fear, that it can seem good like that and then it turns into what it did with him. Hence my paranoia, lol.

Coco your posts are great!

Lostheart8 - that must be difficult to hear that. But so nice to hear how strong you are and you aren’t just jumping straight back in. How long have you been separated? Have you pointed out to him what you would like him to do to R or are you over it?

Well today I got told by my WH that he has booked himself another MC session for him to attend on his own. Get the feeling he will be attending for his new relationship. First thought was 😭 but then i thought 🤔 3 months in and needing MC that’s not good. Try 15 years! Another nugget of info I was also party to was that he told his friend that ‘woman love him’ OMG we nearly wet ourselves laughing. What planet do these men live on?! Oh and his new piece is a psycho- but that’s his fault because she doesn’t trust him and he pushes her buttons! Eh no, probably just a psycho anyway 🤷‍♀️.

Duped - yes. Purposefully - no. In my case WS didn't even know he had on a mask. It all came to bare when he lost his f'ing mind.

I think this is my fch. He didn't know he was pretending. Like TX said, his parents had quashed any individual thought or feeling that he had. He was only doing what he knew.

TX, I swear you are describing my fch toast T. Your H sounds just like mine. Mine is a little further along in the healing process, so he's finding his voice. Problem is, I don't think I like it.

Depth of feeling is huge! My fch doesn't have it. I don't know if he's capable. I don't know if that's genetic, or he has suppressed so much for so long that he can't reach it anymore.

I don't think I've ever admitted all of that to anyone except my ICs. I know I've never admitted all of that on here. It's hard for me when I read about people who are in love with their partners. I don't have that. I never will.

It's ok, though. I find fulfillment through my boys, my friends, my hobbies. As the youngest gets older, I continue to branch into new things. My fch encourages and supports me in everything, even when I wanted to pay $150 for Reiki training.

Coco - I am SO not judging, but just idly curious.

Why stay in a relationship like that? I mean, I get the comfort of the familiar and it is different when you have kids involved... but don't you feel like you deserve to be in love with your partner?

I was with mine for a long time, but thankfully the 'in love' part has passed. Well tbh, most of the love has passed too, which makes me both sad and grateful (not an emotional combo I think I've ever had before). I've learned a lot through this whole shitty process and have definitely reviewed all the 'should haves'. I know where I made mistakes - and by that I mean both actual mistakes and the kind of mistakes that were me suppressing my actual thoughts and feelings cus it was easier not to fight. I for sure have a way longer list of must-haves now. Doesn't mean I won't compromise on the insignificant crap mind you, but I know what I am unwilling to compromise on now.

Was talking with a friend the other day about this. My two biggest pet peeves with asshat were 1. he didn't make the fucking bed. And if he did it was all uneven blankets and lumps and pillows just haphazardly thrown on. and 2. he treated anything I asked him to do (and that really wasn't much) as an inconvenience.

Those seem small, but it was the attitude of fuckyou behind them that was the issue. That he wouldn't take 10-20 minutes out of his busy day of playing video games or working out for 5 hours and do something simply for the sake of making me (who worked and supported his lazy ass for 9 years) happy..... yeah, that's a goddam problem. And THAT kind of settling I won't ever do again. Even if I'm alone from now on with 50 cats!

All of that to say dear Coco, that it seems unbearably sad to me that you don't have that ootz for your partner

I don't want you all to feel sad for me. I'm ok, really. I was sad a couple of years ago, but I've made peace with where I am right now.

I shouldn't have said that I am stuck. I'm not stuck. I can leave whenever I want. Right now, I don't want to. I have a pretty easy life. I'm spoiled in so many ways.

Why do I stay? Many reasons. My boys, first and foremost. I am not going to do the part-time parent thing. I am also not going to risk another woman stepping in thinking she can be their mom, too. I have an extremely unconventional way of parenting that almost no one understands. I don't want that jeopardized.

Like I said, I'm comfortable. I don't have to work outside my home. I hate having a job,and I had a pretty damn good job when I met my fch. It was easy, relaxed, I was mostly left to myself, and I made a lot of money. But, I was miserable. I don't get any sense of fulfillment out of that. I get fulfillment out of being home for my boys. (Man, if you had asked me if that would be me when I was in my 20s, I would've laughed.)

I don't really believe in "in love". There is the excitement and infatuation of a new relationship that is caused by all the chemicals going crazy in our bodies, the purpose of which is to get us to procreate. That feeling is not real or lasting. There is a deeper love that comes with commitment in a LTR. I do love my fch. I just don't have that crazy passion for him.

No, I don't think I deserve that. I don't think I don't deserve it. I don't think it exists, at least not in a healthy way. All of the boys and men I felt that passion for were bad news, drug dealers and such. I'm weird like that, I guess.

I don't think I could find a man willing to take care of me and put up my spoiled selfishness like my fch does. When I hear most other women talk about their Hs, I'm astounded at how little they do, how little those women get from their Hs. I ain't doing that! I'd rather be alone.

I don't stay with my fch because I fell like I don't deserve better. I believe there is no better. Men are fuckers, one way or another. They aren't worth shit. Maybe you could call me a misandrist. I don't hate men. I just think they are only good for 2 things, making babies and money.

I stay because I don't want to get a job. I don't want to uproot my boys' entire lives. I like not having to do housework or anything else, really. I literally take care of my boys, knit or crochet, and go to yoga and workout at home, with the occasional load of laundry or dishes thrown in when I'm in the mood. The only thing that would make it better would be daily visits to the spa for massages and facials.

OK Coco thanks for clarifying that. Makes sense.

And just as an aside - I also don't believe in long-term 'in love'. I do know the bulk of that is physiological in nature. But I do believe that 'in love' matures and mellows into real love. I was talking to my uncle the other day - he has been married for 50 years as of this past July. He called to see how I was and we got on the subject of that. He told me that there have been plenty of times over the last 50 years that they haven't gotten along, times they downright disliked each other. They've fought. They've had issues. But he told me that at the end of the day, no matter if they were snarky, they were still in the same boat and pulling the oars in the same direction. THAT to me is REAL love. And if I can't have that I am not prepared to settle for the bullshit I just divorced. KWIM?

On that note... Ladies, I called the court today to make sure that my motion for waiving the initial status conference had been accepted (it had). Apparently my D file is with the judge, will be reviewed on 10/21, and most likely final decree will happen that week. I might be officially single again before the month is out!

Awesome conversation ladies. Man....it feels good to talk with you all.

Newbiggins I have no clue what I’m doing with him. I feel no rush to go back. He wanted to meet up before traveling on wed ...not coming back til Monday. Told him, I’m waiting....want more time to myself. If I’m so fucking amazing he can put on his big boy pants and demonstrate through actions by waiting.

If he’s lack luster which he has been for the last month...I’m not even enticed. He can suck his own dick.

He asked me to text or call him...not to be a stranger. Told him, I’m not contacting you....that’s your job. Text or call me...don’t want to? No problem. There’s no pressure from me but it’s his job to make contact. Not mine.

I told him ....”you’re not remorseful “.....he wanted to know how I would like him to show it (said with genuine tone). You know what....I have no clue how I would want it to look,

Told him ...I think he needs counseling. A was pure ego kibble. He broke off the A with OW ....she needed to go back home and work on her marriage. She broke into tears and ran off sobbing (according to WBF which he could be lying).

He never loved her. She was definitely more invested in limerence. I’m guessing she was hoping for more in whatever way could happen over 3000 miles with an 8 yr child.

I think he falls into an empty part of himself category that he fills with admiring woman. I think he’s a candidate to cheat again. He needs help.

I spoke to him about this ..... silence. I know that silence....I’ve hit a cord. I don’t think anyone has been honest with him. Will it stick? Yup, I hear the audience groan.

Long ramble .... I don’t know if I want to go back. If I do, I’ll be seeking help from here about what I need.....though I have no interest in knowing details...got enough from the letters, tracking, phone watching, or basically looking over my shoulder.

I guess I need to buy another fucking book...that one to help heal your betrayed spouse. You know what? I know why people cheat....to keep all these books selling off the shelf.

New beginnings that is so awesome....God’s gift to woman! Lol. I’ve got a guy who will give him a run for his money.

How to these guys get their ego into the house?

Congrats Ellie

Woohoo! Single and free!

I had a small celebration when I got divorced several years ago....just at home with me.

Going to do something?

I am actually... I had my bachelorette party at a local cabaret. Me and about 15 friends that have helped me through this are going to get dolled up and go to that same cabaret and drink pink martinis and have a fabulous night!

I'm calling it my Unbachelorette Party

Ellie You go girl! That is sooooooo awesome 👏👏👏

Ellie, that sounds fabulous!

LH, my personal opinion on cheating boyfriends and girlfriends is to dump them and never look back. How long had you been dating this guy?

He told me that there have been plenty of times over the last 50 years that they haven't gotten along, times they downright disliked each other. They've fought. They've had issues. But he told me that at the end of the day, no matter if they were snarky, they were still in the same boat and pulling the oars in the same direction.

That's just it. There are ups and downs. LTRs ebb and flow. I knew that from the beginning. I don't think my fch did. I think he thought we'd get married and live happily ever after. After all, his parents never disagreed.

That's where the commitment comes in. If you have children, it's not just a commitment to your partner. It's also a commitment to your children. If my fch were still cheating or wayward, if he was abusive or mean or disrespectful or any other bad thing, if he wasn't putting in tons of effort to become a safe partner, I would leave. I have said before, I will reassess in another 5 years (maybe sooner).

Lost - honestly, if I were you, I'd mourn the loss of the relationship (not even necessarily the person) and then I would let him go. You have an opportunity to learn from this experience and take it into the next.

Ellie - I love the dressing up and pink martinis! What awesome friends you have.

CoCo - I totally 100% get that. It's actually where my sister is right now. She loves her WH like a friend but underneath all of the cheating and alcoholism, he's still not someone she would choose again. BUT she has two kids, a very comfortable life, and there's no need to rock her boat. Maybe later when the kids are out of the house. But for now, she has financial freedom, her husband travels quite often, so she has autonomy in much of her daily life, and more importantly, she is HAPPY with her life, even if there is not romantic love. And I respect her and am happy for her. So if you are happy and good, I think that's great.

Ellie your party sounds great. Shame we can’t all come. Bet that felt good knowing you will be free shortly. Another box ✅.

I get the staying for the comfort in a relationship too. Think some people are happy to do that but as we can all relate a lot of WH/WB aren’t. They would rather cause devastation to a family to find ‘long lasting’ happiness.

Sorry it seems yall shifted gears again but I wanted to comment on the settling.

I feel like I did not settle in this marriage. My husband was everything I wanted in a man (or so I thought). He chased after God, He loved me and my children as if they were his own, He took care of us, He made me feel good and needed/wanted. He has a good job and is very responsible when it comes to his money. I went in to this marriage eyes wide open, it is my 3rd and divorce was not an option this time so I wanted to be sure. We even sought God on the subject to really make sure our marriage was blessed. And it was.

All those reasons is why I feel like I lost the last 3 years of my life. I feel like it was all fake and he is not who I thought he was at all. We are in a good spot for being a couple months past dday but it is still hard. I still want this marriage and he does too. So as long as we both keep showing growth, and change I guess we will keep pushing.

Marriage isn't always about being happy. It is a constant tug a war between the good and the bad. You may disagree and the other person may do things you don't agree with but if you love each other unconditionally you get through it. Cheating should never be something you have to "get through" but I guess that is life right!

Congrats on the D...I remember divorcing my second husband and I went out and celebrated my freedom, it was amazing! Have fun.

[This message edited by heartbroken83 at 6:01 AM, October 9th (Wednesday)]