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Silent No More...Who Do You Tell

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Jeaniegirl posted 9/26/2018 18:54 PM

Well I failed as I was trying to run over HIM and only got his foot.

StillLivin posted 9/26/2018 19:51 PM

If I told my story, it would be pages long. Long story short, I'm so happy for women and girls today. Times are changing. We still have a long way to go, but today a woman is usually believed and consequences are sought.

Cephastion posted 9/26/2018 20:03 PM

I am way too cowboy and old fashioned for this day and age I suppose, but I honestly struggle very much reading this thread.

I don't struggle with it because I disbelieve the accounts or the motives of those sharing.

I struggle because I want vengeance for each and every one of you who have suffered in this way, and yet as a Christian I'm not supposed to foster such sentiments.

But all I can think about when I read this...is defending the honor a lady. I want to do unpleasant things to men and boys that hurt women and girls.

It is NOT your FAULT that some men are absolute MONSTERS who should be turned into eunuchs or caged up with a silverback male gorilla to see what it's like to be overpowered and humbled like they did to those they should have been PROTECTING and RESPECTING.

I had to defend my own mother's honor with a baseball bat against a much older (and larger) filthy rich relative of mine when I was sixteen, and it is the one and only time in my life that I truly WANTED to take someone's life. Everyone got out of that thing physically unscathed, but my zeal spared her any harm or shame in the matter thankfully, and he learned not to mess with MY mother even if I was only a 90 pound kid.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 9:26 PM, September 26th (Wednesday)]

Lieswearmedown posted 9/26/2018 20:07 PM

To the men here who have chimed in, thank you.

sewardak posted 9/26/2018 20:09 PM

Iím not understanding of the exposure thing. What does it mean? Are we supposed to be impressed? Scared? Wanting to jump on it? Because penis means nothing to a woman so..., wth? Why?

latebloomer45 posted 9/26/2018 20:11 PM

I am so sorry you are struggling, SMS. I'm up at 3 a.m. because my husband said he needed a break from my being so upset.

I know he means well but fuck him too.

And to the few brave guys who have ventured in here, thank you for your support. I must say I truly expected some "not all men" defensiveness and am oh so glad to be wrong.

Cephastion posted 9/26/2018 20:16 PM

I'm not understanding of the exposure thing. What does it mean? Are we supposed to be impressed? Scared? Wanting to jump on it? Because penis means nothing to a woman so..., wth? Why?

I think a male that exposes his "head" is only showing where his head and heart really are as a kind of pseudo-invitation-like stink bait to a bottom-feeding fish or sea-bug.

It is said that 'birds of a feather flock together' and I think that that particular "attractant" is meant to be a technique to flush out only those brazen and heartless enough to actually consider such a "lure" as a viable one... instead of actual LADIES who have any kind of semblance of self-respect or common decency or dignity left in them enough to resist such a sad, disgusting dumpster-date as THAT.

Alternatively speaking, I hear that phallic symbols are also a show of power or confidence and are therefore indicative of being a potential threat or otherwise a show of internally esteemed "prowess" or bravado that might be meant to suggest confident ability with the use of the "tool" in question.

But the potential THREAT factor inherent in such a display would be excuse enough in THIS man's mind to absolutely justify physically defending oneself

and truly EXPOSING the matter and indecent incident to bring shame to the offender at a minimum as well as alert others to the situation and the sicko that's among them, as well as to protect one's self from further injury of any kind (aside from the mental/psychological injury already done by it all).

After all, a woman showing her genitals would NOT have the same effect on a person she picked out to demonstrate upon. It's a very different kind of message when it's an unsolicited or entirely unwarranted one when it's a male display rather than a female one. (As if women are ever noted for making men feel harrassed or threatened by such acts on their part!)

[This message edited by Cephastion at 9:31 PM, September 26th (Wednesday)]

CaliforniaNative posted 9/26/2018 21:35 PM

Druged and raped when I was in my young 20s. The man was an older, wealthy bar and club owner in San Diego. I was at his bar drinking beer (3) and woke up half naked at his house the next day. I remember nothing. I was in shock, in pain and was very sick....out of it for a few days. I didnít go see a doctor or press charges. I had little money and he had a lot of people on his side. Who knows how many women he did this to.

wildbananas posted 9/26/2018 22:32 PM

And to the few brave guys who have ventured in here, thank you for your support. I must say I truly expected some "not all men" defensiveness and am oh so glad to be wrong.

Ditto... thank you all.

latebloomer45 posted 9/27/2018 04:05 AM

Cephastion, I don't know a single woman of ANY caliber who would be "caught" with the exposure" bait." It's generally recognized that exhibitionists have a sexual quirk, that it turns THEM on...they don't generally expect to get any consensual sex out of it. Most flashers never move on to worse acts, but it is telling that a few serial killers BEGAN as flashers. It's about fear/shock turning them on.

I had a flasher NOT scare me, as I was aware he was in my neighborhood, he had driven past me like four time very early in the a.m. so when he pulled over, I expected him to be naked from the waist down, he yanked off his shirt before getting out. when he appeared from his car (100 ft away and my dog was with me) I calmly started dialing the sheriff. Since he wasn't getting what he wanted, he yelled "I'm going to fuck you until you are dead". THEN he got what he wanted, I started screaming what he said into the phone. He masturbated for a minute and then decided he'd better escape. What's sad is that this doesn't even break my top 3 of scary sexual assaults. The cops never caught him, but it was Texas, we were told that since he'd threatened to kill me he could be shot on sight next time. Several women bought guns, I started carrying mace. Whoever ran our neighborhood page put it in very bold letters on the first page, he could be shot on sight. Local paper did a tiny blurb about it, and this guy was at least six and a half feet tall, he stood out. I think he must have seen the threat because he hasn't been seen since that incident in that neighborhood since 2004. Or maybe he went to jail or moved. Who knows. He had been seen at least five times in my neighborhood, and he had a different car every time. I always thought that even in Houston, it shouldn't be that hard to find a car dealership/rental employee that tall. But of course not important enough for the cops to pursue.

I stopped in my tracks and said OH PLEASE and I Laughed. I laughed loudly.
JG, WEL DONE YOU. My older sister and her roommate were walking down the hall of their dorm in the early 70's when a male student exposed himself. Roomate turned to my sister and said "Look, it looks exactly like a real penis. Except MUCH MUCH smaller!" How a teenager had such a snappy comeback is beyond me. This was a guy who lived in their dorm. Sister said he had tears in his eyes every time he saw them after that.

ZenMumWalking posted 9/27/2018 05:33 AM

Roomate turned to my sister and said "Look, it looks exactly like a real penis. Except MUCH MUCH smaller!" How a teenager had such a snappy comeback is beyond me.

Sounds like it wasn't her first rodeo.

Bestthing posted 9/27/2018 06:17 AM

My husband was raped by a woman in his 20ís. 25 years later, a friend/teammate of the rapist used this info to get close to my husband and became his AP for 3 years.

I had my share of groping in crowded subway, flashers, etc. What hurts in retrospect is statutory rape scenarios. Men who were much older and claimed to love me. We ended up together as Boy/girl friends or even husband/wife. The first case occurred when I was 15/16. He was more than 30. He was already having sex with my best friend starting when she was 13. I was so naive about sex at the time that I didnít even know I had a vagina. This man bought me material things that somehow I didnít think I deserve before like a dozen roses, dinner at a nice restaurant, and a stereo. He even groomed my parents. My mom told me not to hurt his feelings if I am not going to marry him! At 20 and moved to NYC by myself; met a 42 year old colleague at my first full time job out of college. He was a therapist, narcissistic, and manipulated me into marrying him. He told me if I donít want to marry him, I would have to call his elderly mom and disappoint her. I married him for a little over a month when he physically abused me. I had enough sense to leave before I kill him. After that, I finally learned to say ďfuck youĒ to men, but it will be a few years before I can use that sentiment regularly enough. By the way, one month husband (shorter than any of my other boy/girlfriend relationships) ended up in jail for fraud later in life.

Predators come in all forms. Male and female, violent and manipulative. We have to teach our children to say ďfuck youĒ early in life, may be not in those words, in that sense that they deserve boundaries and their Noís should be heard.

Being drugged and violated...I have no words...hugs. We can do better for the next generation!

Lalagirl posted 9/27/2018 06:47 AM

The cops never caught him, but it was Texas, we were told that since he'd threatened to kill me he could be shot on sight next time.

I love Texas law!

latebloomer45 posted 9/27/2018 08:29 AM

I love Texas law!

Ya know, Lala, at the time I was horrified, I didn't think even as a repeat offender he deserved to DIE. And he never came closer than 100 feet from me, my Brittany dog was with me there, (although being a Brittany she sniffed the ground the whole time, and never picked up on my fear. My Rottweiler I had in the 80's would have heard the panic, torn away from me, and ripped him to shreds.) I never REALLY thought he'd get me. But he did scare me. When women showed up at my house (I was a Neighborhood Watch block captain) to show me their new guns I was really aghast.

Somehow in the turmoil and trauma of the last couple of weeks, I've changed my mind on that. This shit has got to end.

barcher144 posted 9/27/2018 09:20 AM

Who knows how many women he did this to.

I hate to stereotype, but I have been thinking about something along these lines.

How many guys sexually assault a woman just once? I can't imagine that to be the case. They keep doing it over and over and over... because they are so rarely caught/reprimanded/run-the-fuck-over-with-a-truck.

I must say I truly expected some "not all men" defensiveness and am oh so glad to be wrong.

I didn't think of that but: not all men do this. Actually, I'd hope that only a very small fraction of men do this. But, all I really know is that 100% of the men writing this response don't do it (but don't trust me... if I did do it, I'd deny, right?)

The problem, I think, is that the few men who do it... do it often and repeatedly over decades.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 9:21 AM, September 27th (Thursday)]

MrsWalloped posted 9/27/2018 09:37 AM

I wasnít going to post here. I just kept coming back to this thread crying and reading and then crying and reading. And then I read this line.

people will start to speculate about what you may have done to deserve it.

Not just people. My own mother. My cousin assaulted me when I was 13 and he was 15. I developed pretty early but I hated wearing a bra. They were just so uncomfortable! My mother used to give me grief over it, but as long as I wore it to school and we werenít going out someplace nice on a weekend then she let me go without one. So I hardly ever wore one at home. Anyway, I wasnít wearing one that day and we were in my house playing games in the basement. Josh kept making comments about my ďboobies.Ē Then he said ďIíll show you mine if you show me yoursĒ and without waiting he lowered his jeans and underwear and showed me his penis and started pulling on himself. Then he said I had to show him mine because he showed me his and itís only fair and itís supposed to feel good rub them together. I said nuh-uh, no way, thatís gross. He complained that it wasnít fair if I didnít cause he already did and when I still said no he just grabbed me and squeezed. Hard. I shrieked and cried, he panicked, and I ran to tell my mother. What do you think she said? It was my fault for not wearing a bra and I was flaunting myself in front of him. Iíll never forget that word flaunting. She said nothing to him. Nothing! I learned then never to tell anyone when something like this happened. My cousin is now married with two children. Iíve never looked at him the same and when I see him today I still see him with his jeans down over his ankles holding his penis and him grabbing me. He was a stupid kid and itís more than 30 years later and yet I still think about it when I see him.

Iíve had so many unwanted touches, back rubs, and hugs I lost count.

In college I worked selling advertising space for a fashion magazine. Iíd go up and down 5th Ave and Madison Ave, to all the retail stores there. Creepy handshakes that lasted forever. One guy, the owner of a leather store who was twice my age, showed me all of his merchandise and kept me there for over a half hour while doing these little touches on my shoulder or arm like to, direct me to where he wanted to look. Finally he agreed to place a full page ad and also offered me a leather purse for free. Then he told me he had a place in the Hamptons and wanted to take me there for the weekend and pressed me for my home phone number (days before cell phones). I got out of there as fast as I could. I didnít get the ad. No, I didnít take the purse.

If youíre female and have been on the NYC subway then youíve experienced how invasive that can be. Iíve had so many creeps brush up against me or ďaccidentallyĒ touch my behind or my favorite is when theyíd pretend to hold onto the pole, but of course their arm has to push up against my chest to do that. Not higher, not lower, only directly across my breasts. And if itís really crowded, forget it. People push their crotches into me and thereís nowhere to escape. You feel trapped, like an animal and like a piece of meat. That youíre only there to help some perv get off and thereís nothing you can do. People know, they see, but everyone just ignores it. Although once, this guy was really pressing into me from behind and I had no room to maneuver away. He didnít have to push into me like that, it wasnít that crowded and it was so obvious what he was doing. I think I almost burst into tears (but I still couldnít turn and confront him, I just had to bear it, because thatís what you did, you just took it). Anyway this nice man yelled at him and told him to back offend get off me. Of course the whole subway car turned to look at us, but the guy moved back. I whispered thank you to that guy, but that was just a fraction of how grateful I really was that he did that. Because he acknowledged that it was happening. He didnít pretend not to see it. He saw it and did something about it.

At the charity I volunteered at before I was at the one where my AP was, there was a director who was an older man and kind. Except he was extremely handsy. Heíd hug and kiss all of the girls there before holidays, for birthdays, or sometimes even weekends. At first we all thought it was a generational thing. Like he was from the 50ís where this behavior was normal. But after some time we saw he did it to every woman there, including young-ish girls, and for every stupid occasion. Secretary Day - hugs and kisses for everyone. Valentines Day, work anniversaries, long weekends, any reason that he could justify. We got hugs and kisses. And not those half-hug types either but the full blown let me feel your boobs kind of hugs. A few us complained. ďOh, thatís just D. Heís harmless!Ē We were brushed off.

There are so many more ďsmallĒ instances where Iíve been conditioned to just accept or ignore and never make any waves.

I have something else to say, but I donít want to take away from this thread because of how important it is. Thank you to all of you who posted your stories here.

latebloomer45 posted 9/27/2018 10:09 AM

(((((Mrs. Wallopped))))

Barcher, we all know not all men do this. But saying so is so...defensive, and undermining of all the shared pain. You're better than that. We don't assume all men do the thing that most of the women on SI joined for, either. Has ZERO to do with our pain.

Of course relatively few men rape. But the unwanted touching, hugs, innuendo, outright grabs or brushing up on the train, telling strangers they are attractive (or ugly, for that matter, just commenting on their looks)....that's a huge percentage of men. Which is why I keep coming back to: Awareness, this shit HAS.TO.STOP.

silverhopes posted 9/27/2018 10:57 AM

Came back to post more. Thank you to everyone here who shared their stories. I wish I had a place to share with seats for everyone, a big room to talk in as a tribe, quiet rooms, gardens, tea, lavender, warm beds with locking doors where only the person inside has the key, and a sense of peace and tranquility, for each of the survivors here when we trigger and need help feeling safe again.

In no particular order:

When I was 3, my mother had a black tar heroin addiction, and I lived with her part-time. There were other people who lived in that place, and others who were in and out. One of them might have molested me. I say might have because I have fragments of memories, and my father and the rest of my family noticed changes in my behavior that point to it. My mother does not believe it really happened, and has since posted a picture of the man who did that on her Facebook in a way that feels like honoring or at least acknowledging his memory - he died when I was 10, and I remember feeling guilty when I found that out.

My godmother began doing inappropriate things when I was 16. I don't want to talk about what she did. It brings horrible symptoms when I do.

In a halfway house, a man twice my age was hitting on me. I told him very straightforwardly that I was not interested in him. He wound up locking an arm around my neck and forcing his tongue down my throat. I wish I would have bitten it off, but I was terrified and froze up. I had struggled, but I couldn't get him off, and that was when I froze. I told staff, they sat us down, allowed him to tell his story first (which was full of disgusting lies, of course, and I felt sick every time he looked at me). By the time it was my turn to talk, I was so furious that I said out loud how much I wanted to stab him through the heart with a pencil. (Pretty sure that's a huge reason why staff made me, and not him, sign a contract saying I had to stop interacting with the opposite gender in the house, and that I couldn't be in common areas without a staff member present.). They asked several times, "How did it go from 'you're my grandfather figure' to you two slobbering down each others' throats?" Nothing was done, and I was further humiliated. Later that week, a male staff member talked to me about what I choose to wear and how I might be asking for bad attention (during the time of our talk, it was about midnight and I was wearing pajamas and had come downstairs in the first place because I couldn't sleep and was looking for support.). So when another fellow client began inappropriately hitting on me and ignoring me when I told him to back off, I didn't expect staff to help. We fought one night in the kitchen, and I heel-palmed him in the face. Gave him a bloody lip. I was kicked out of the halfway house for my troubles. Naturally, he got to stay - even when he hit another client a week later, he was STILL allowed to stay. And if it sounds ridiculously like the staff was blatantly going against me, believe me, I've had the same thoughts, to the point I wonder if it really was all my fault.

Plus, add to that my grandfather groping my butt while I was washing dishes (I was told by my father, "He's the other safe male adult in your life, aside from me. The therapist says that a kid will attack the safe adults because the safe adults have proved they aren't going anywhere and are safe to attack," or words to that effect), the ice cream man who assaulted me similarly to the halfway house guy and forced a disgusting kiss on me (I was told by my godmother, "This is why you don't talk to strangers."), the many guys who have tried to get me in their cars or talk to me while I've been out waiting for a bus, especially during my teen years, the ex who did unspeakably horrible things that I still blame myself for because, after all, I didn't leave him immediately, and something very unfortunate Mr Silver did when he was having a psychological crisis in 2016 (the incident with the lighter)... Yeah, I frequently feel tainted and like so much of this is my fault, that I put myself in these situations, and I hate myself for that. Maybe I'm so angry because I know they'll never change or have to face consequences, even though I spoke up. I have to carry around all the consequences.

I had some time to think about what I posted last time. I don't think I could honestly take out an eye from any one of the abusers I just named. But I could beat the shit out of them if they ever pulled that shit again. I could definitely punch them, kick them, and generally make them say "ow", and not feel guilty as long as I didn't do them permanent damage, and as long as they learned not to lay a hand on me again.

If it were a complete stranger, and they were going for worse, then I would probably do much worse. I'm mad at myself for all the times I froze. I'm mad that I let fear control me. I'm so angry that I'm afraid sometimes that it will just explode out of me. So I remind myself that if anyone assaults me again, right then is when I need to let the anger explode and not let the guilt stop me. I would rather be a violent person than an assault victim ever again.

DragnHeart posted 9/27/2018 11:03 AM

I agree this shit has to stop but how do you stop it when woman and sex and so intertwined in everything?

Want to sell a car, put a sexy woman on it.

Even though it's perfectly legal for me to go topless and walk down the street woman are still bashed all to hell just for breastfeeding their baby even when totally covered.

Breasts are for sexual pleasure alone don't ya know

It starts at home I guess. Teaching our sons that woman are humans and not objects for their pleasure. But I can teach that and you can teach that but that asshole who groped you isn't going to go home and tell his sons not to grope woman...

It feels hopeless. So I teach my son's to be good men and I teach my daughter's how to bite, kick and protect themselves.

sad12008 posted 9/27/2018 11:06 AM

Triggering like mad because of something that is all over the news programs in the USA right now.

I understand, I've been experiencing the same. What really gets to me the most is the harsh cynicism and accusatory disbelief of the length of time between the assault and the public disclosure of the assault. I can excuse ignorance, to a degree, but the stubborn ignorance and refusal to self-educate is infuriating and disheartening in the extreme!

My own personal experience involved years of molestation as a child. I could not even acknowledge to MYSELF that I had been molested until my early 20s; answered affirmatively to a therapist's direct question shortly thereafter during an initial appointment about other issues but refused/could not discuss it at all; and to this day have not told anyone but a trusted therapist required to maintain silence who it was. There are a swirl of reasons why. But the lack of public disclosure in the current news story is completely in line with my own experience.

In addition, due to my professional background, I've helped other women process and move forward from sexual assault. I know from this that some details of the attacks are in high definition technicolor while other details cannot be recalled at all. This makes Dr. Ford's story further resonate with me.

Prior to that, I had a female friend who was nearly raped by an extremely inebriated friend of a mutual friend of ours. She was sexually assaulted, but did not feel she could be believed in part because the guy was viewed as 'such a great guy'. He had more social power than she did. Therefore, She Wanted It To Go Away. Box it up, pretend it didn't happen, protect her vulnerability. It was so terrifying for her, and to this day, no one views this man as a person who'd commit sexual assault...but he did. I also no longer view "character witnesses" as worth a damn, thanks to my experience of infidelity. Useless.

#whyIdidnttell further reinforces my personal experiences. I'm angry and tired of some people acting like sexual assault is somehow normal male behavior. It is NOT.

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