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Silent No More...Who Do You Tell

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wildbananas posted 9/24/2018 16:40 PM

Oh Weatherly... I'm so, so sorry. :(

And this?

The world is so far fucked up. My kids say they aren't having kids. And I'm actually glad.

NFW I'd have kids if I was of childbearing age today. I'm afraid for all four of mine, boys and girls.

marji posted 9/24/2018 17:22 PM

DragonHeart Isn't it better now that women are speaking up--telling our girls to speak up--no longer just putting up with disgusting behavior, figuring out how to get around it, how to joke it away? Men have always done these things to women--at work, in the home with domestic workers, in all sort private and public places.

But now they will be called out; now we will call the authorities and make public these awful behaviors. Seems to me that's not the world getting worse but the world going better.

Adlham posted 9/24/2018 17:33 PM

File this under Reasons I Am Going to Hell...

Speaking of humor, marj, my abuser currently has pneumonia and is in his 70's.

I tried to convince my mom to switch out his antibiotics for vitamins lol

No, I don't really mean that. As much as I hate him, I also, like many CSA survivors, care about him, too.

It's just complicated, you know?

But I definitely use gallows humor to cope. I have to. It's my defense mechanism. This shit is hard and I really hate when I fall apart for the gazillionith time.

The other thing that is really bothering me right now is that while I believe that these accusations should be investigated, why is it at the expense of the victims? That's such a crock of shit.

Just because I happen to have a healthy sex drive with a history of many different partners doesn't make me a whole, nor does it make me any less of a victim when I said no.

There has to be a better way.

DragnHeart posted 9/24/2018 18:15 PM

Overall no I don't believe the world is getting better.

More abductions, more violence, more crap that you dare not say cause you're bound to offend someone.

Everyone coming out and making rapes public hasn't done anything for the laws to be changed for stricter punishments. All the media coverage and people standing up to these bad behaviours are still bashed and ridiculed and rapes are still happening.

Clothing companies still make clothes for girls, children, that sexualize them. Try finding a pair of shorts for a girl that's even close to their damn knees..

Companies still use sex to sell their shit.

I heard about a party that a 14 year old and a 15 year old girl went to. They "had sex" with two twenty years old guys. Sorry but that's rape. The guys should have been sent to jail even if those girls consented. Why were the girls even there? Where the hell were their parents? No way in fucking hell is my 14 year old going out to a party with twenty years old guys.

But God forbid you actually parent these days. Kids have rights don't ya know. It's oppressive to make sure they are going where they said they are or actually discipline them. Ugh! I do not look forward to the coming years when my kids get older.

The man who molested me became the ugly family secret with ME being the one at fault because "he was sick". No fuckibg really? I had no clue that a man who wants to fuck around with a five-nine year.old isn't bloody sick in the damn head. But oh no, family didn't speak to me for years or to my parents...Who by the way still resent Me for that. A fucking nine year old who finally told her secret.
So when I was raped I kept it to myself. Why bother telling anyone. Apparently all I did was lie.

ZenMumWalking posted 9/24/2018 19:19 PM

Everyone coming out and making rapes public hasn't done anything for the laws to be changed for stricter punishments.

I don't think the problem is that the punishment is not strict, rather it's that the conviction rate is so low.

You could even argue that very strict punishments would result in an even lower conviction rate since people would probably be less likely to convict.

Lalagirl posted 9/25/2018 07:29 AM

I was in 7th grade - 1978. My girlfriend and I went to the restroom (buddy system). A boy walked in - he looked older; I don't think he was a student. He went to grab my girlfriend and she took off, leaving me alone. I turned to run, he grabbed me from behind, one arm around my neck and one around my mouth. I had braces (the big 'ol 70s metal ones) - thank God he had an arm over my mouth - I bit the living shit out of him. He's screaming, "let go of me, bitch!" I say (through clenched teeth buried in his arm), "You let go of me FIRST!" He did, I took off running (in wedge heels - never knew how fast I could run in those) to the principal's office. They called my mom, who came to the school to pick me up. Police were not called; we were told that this was an "in school matter" and would be handled by the Board of Ed (that never happened, BTW). The principal than proceeded to say to my mom (in front of me), "Perhaps your daughter should carry a weapon, such as a small knife, to school with her." Mom lost her shit. She took me home, withdrew me from that school and enrolled me in private school.

I remained in private school in 8th & 9th grade. My parents were struggling financially. I really didn't like private school (I was a good kid, but it was a cultural shock - and a rebellious teen who wanted to be back in public school with my friends with whom I grew up). I begged my folks to let me go to public high school, and I did.

Everything was awesome in my sophomore year (high school was 10th-12th grade back then) and most of my junior year. I was in honors classes, straight-A student...then May of my junior year...

I'm in AP English so I had the freedom to go to the library in during class to study/use the resources for projects. I was alone and took the back stairwell to get to the library. The stairwells had doors that were unlocked. As I get to the bottom of the 1st set of stairs (2 sets to get to the bottom floor) - three boys run up the stairs, grab me, turn me around and one holds a knife to my throat. Groping begins. Then a BANG (the door upstairs to the stairwell opens) - the boys dart off, but the one holding the knife to my throat says, "You tell anyone, you die, and your family dies."

I carry on with the rest of my day. I say nothing to no one, not even my BFF (we were as thick as thieves). For the next two weeks, I get in my car to go to school, but I don't go to school. I drive around. I go to the local park and sit, smoke cigarettes. Two WEEKS. My mom gets a call after I had not shown up for school for TWO WEEKS. She confronts me; I had to tell her. I was a friggin mess. My mom went to the school (I refused to go) - since I could not identify the boys and time had passed, nothing would be done. Once again, I was withdrawn from school, but this time, three weeks before my junior year ended in 1982 (I did schoolwork from home to finish out the year) I quit high school with a 4.2 GPA.

Mom tried to get me transferred into another school...I wanted no part of it. She sent me to a psychiatrist - I went for a couple weeks - then I met my now husband, and stopped going to the psychiatrist. I clearly had PTSD and didn't know it. I did tell H about a couple weeks after we were dating, he was very understanding about and actually encouraged me to go back to the psychiatrist; I refused. I didn't want to deal with it anymore, so I stuffed it. The PTSD stayed with me, and to this day, it's with me (IC has helped tremendously though). I got my GED 9 years after I left high school.

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 7:31 AM, September 25th (Tuesday)]

Newlease posted 9/25/2018 08:38 AM

I have been triggering also - so many incidents throughout my life - some reported and shrugged off by the people I told - some kept hidden because I felt shame & guilt instead of putting that on the perpetrator.

I can't even read the stories on this thread because they sound so familiar and I just get totally pissed off all over again at the treatment of girls and women. My poor SO, who is a gentleman through and through feels my wrath about the situation occasionally. He just listens and gets angry with me.

I tried to raise two good men. I taught them to respect women, that NO means NO, always help someone who needs it, and if a someone is under the influence, they cannot give consent. That has been my way of fighting back.

NL

Lalagirl posted 9/25/2018 10:21 AM

I tried to raise two good men. I taught them to respect women, that NO means NO, always help someone who needs it, and if a someone is under the influence, they cannot give consent. That has been my way of fighting back.

So you succeeded in raising two good men.

((((Newlease)))) so sorry for the pain you had to endure.

He just listens and gets angry with me.

Why does he get angry with you?

latebloomer45 posted 9/25/2018 10:47 AM

I think she means "gets angry right along with me"....

barcher144 posted 9/25/2018 12:02 PM

File this under Reasons I Am Going to Hell...

You know what? I haven't been sexually assaulted, but the stories that I have heard makes it sound like torture, literally.

I have no problem with you wanting catastrophe to strike the person that tortured you (or anyone). Fuck 'em!

Just because I happen to have a healthy sex drive with a history of many different partners doesn't make me a whole, nor does it make me any less of a victim when I said no.

How about husbands who rape their wives? That's possible too (and I'm guessing some of you have experienced that too... fuckers!).

The problem with rape or sexual assault, from a legal perspective, is that it is almost always one person's word versus another's, which doesn't work well when the burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" rather than a "preponderance of the evidence."

From a less legal perspective, it certainly seems like there is a substantial fraction of men who are predators. How they get away with it is beyond me. There was a story around here recently in which an entire group of guys had an entire system to get a woman drunk, assault her, and then fabricate evidence after the fact. The cops literally could do nothing until multiple victims came forward and the cops were able to figure out their entire scheme.

I don't know how you woman aren't all gay. Men are assholes.

ZenMumWalking posted 9/25/2018 12:16 PM

The cops literally could do nothing until multiple victims came forward and the cops were able to figure out their entire scheme.

Yes, sadly this is how many - maybe even most - rapists have to be caught. (a) By having multiple victims, and (b) enough of those coming forward and reporting. It's tough.

This is what is happening in my DS's rape investigation. Unfortunately, these guys have attacked others (male and female) since his attack, but we are hoping that this is what will eventually lead to their capture.

Newlease posted 9/25/2018 13:07 PM

Latebloomer45 caught my meaning:

I think she means "gets angry right along with me"....

SO really is a good man - the best I have ever encountered.

NL

Lalagirl posted 9/25/2018 13:39 PM

I think she means "gets angry right along with me"....

Ohmygosh, please forgive me - I totally read that wrong.

latebloomer45 posted 9/25/2018 14:02 PM

The problem with rape or sexual assault, from a legal perspective, is that it is almost always one person's word versus another's, which doesn't work well when the burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" rather than a "preponderance of the evidence."

Yup, which is why the culture needs to change.

My Marine friend I spoke about earlier on this thread....her 14 year old went to her first H.S. dance. She's tall and trim like her mom, head full of red curls, huge green eyes. Wore a sleeveless dress that went up to her neck and down to her knees without looking like she is covering up. Friend posted photo. For every five "She is the spitting image of her mom" and "Gorgeous" there was a "Lock her up!" or "are you letting her out of the house looking like that?" My friend was PM me that she wanted to scream, but she wouldn't do it publicly (and asked me not to,) This issue is so fucking pervasive that when we see a girl dressed up for the dance, wearing a MODEST dress, 20% of the reaction is literally " Beware! She's asking for it!" And I KNOW these friends of hers don't mean it that way, but they ARE NOT THINKING. Comments like these are part of the problem of shame around feminine bodies...and as Lies said, it's an old issue by the time you're 14, it starts at birth.

Thank you for this thread, it's really helping me to cope/vent.

Lieswearmedown posted 9/25/2018 21:28 PM

EDITED TO ADD: It appears I have inadvertently broken a rule. Edited extensively at the suggestion of and with permission of the mods.


Iím not talking about any specific list of particular sex acts. It is about the treatment and threats leveled in order to coerce a spouse into participating in any act. Iím talking about the abusive application of a power dynamic between two people who are supposedly equal. It is sexual abuse in my opinion for a wife or a husband to demand under threat of divorce or separation or taking the kids or exacting some financial consequences or what have you when there are tears, abusive name calling, screaming, and pleading to stop, pleading to calm down, pleading to talk about it first, etc. If a situation is such that you are receiving anal or a blowjob or ANY sexual act through tears and begging to stop or whimpers or pain, then the person threatening is abusing the power dynamic and manipulating their spouse.

It is tantamount to taking a hammer toward the very relationship we should value. Abuse, coercion, attempts at force under threats of losing their entire life as they know it, relationship, and family do nothing but create or widen the chasm between you. He or she can say no of course, but in that moment, the thought is often ďif I just silently take this even if itís being forced on me under threat, even if it will hurt me, even if I donít want it, I at least can get through the next few minutes and deal with this when he or she is calm or maybe less threatening and gets control of themselves. Then, maybe I wonít lose my marriage, my home, my kids, etc.Ē
In that moment, she might give you what you want, but she isnít thinking, ďIím doing this because I love my spouse and want to share this with my spouse.Ē She is most likely thinking, ďI need to be able to do this despite crying and being upset and being called names and being threatened so I can diffuse this situation.

I donít understand, speaking only for myself, what pleasure or satisfaction the spouse who is doing the threatening gets. I also donít understand how the abusive spouse doesnít realize they have lost control of their emotions and mouth and are doing nothing but hard cold damage to another human. I donít want my husband to flinch when he looks at me and I damn sure know that he doesnít want that from me.
Itís so screwed up. I firmly believe that at the point where anyone is rationalizing those threats and turning a blind eye toward the fact that your spouse is begging you not to demand this, not to degrade them by forcing it to happen in a particular location where someone might see, begging you not to call them ugly names while itís happening, begging you not to scream at them in the moment you are penetrating them while emotions are angry and nonproductive, then the marriage is over because one party in that scenario is abusive.

I agree that anything should go in a trusting, committed, mutually respectful relationship, but we arenít talking about a marriage like that. It feels like retribution and retaliation and punishment.

[This message edited by Lieswearmedown at 7:13 PM, September 26th (Wednesday)]

SisterMilkshake posted 9/25/2018 22:41 PM

@Lieswearmedown You can start a thread in General with topic title "Mods Please!"

You can then ask them to send you a pm and you can communicate with the Mods about what your dilemma is and how it can be resolved.

To everyone who has exposed their wounds and shared on this thread...Thank you! I have a lot of thoughts and feels about what everyone has shared and I am having a hard time trying to gather it all together to make a cohesive response.

I am still triggering and doing some introspection on my feelings and things I have stuffed about these incidents. Coming to terms that yes they were assault and I have every reason to feel traumatized as I was traumatized. Just trying to process.

psychmom posted 9/25/2018 22:58 PM

I was 10 when my grandfather coaxed me to his basement with promises of seeing the new litter of kittens. There were kittens, but also a pile of smut magazines that he handed to me as he watched my expression. A few months later, he put his hand on my non- existent breast. I told my parents and we didn't spend much time with that side of the family after then. He had sexually abused his own daughter for many years, our dark family secret.

I was around 12 when I was pinned to the ground by an older boy, the son of my parent's friends. I was in 8th grade when the boy I liked pinned me to the ground with the help of two buddies. These guys were my friends. So I thought. I can still see the eyes of the weakest one. His shame, but unwillingness to break boy code and help me. In both cases I was not raped, but my sense of safety was shattered.

Those early ones hurt the most. Maybe due to my innocence at the time. The crumpled belief that boys you know will protect you. Or at least not victimize you.

I have talked to my daughter's about these stories and others in recent years. We must talk to them. They need to know it's okay to speak up. You've done nothing wrong. This isn't because of anything you did it didn't do. This is the world we live in, and things have got to change.

Thank you, SMS, for starting this conversation, and for providing an opening for the brave survivors following you.

silverhopes posted 9/25/2018 23:30 PM

Thank you for this thread.

I can't talk about it all right now. I know I've done on other threads here before, but it's too hard right now. When we bring up our experiences, others talk about the people who are falsely accused. A bad thing, yes, but in my mind, a completely different conversation than the one we're having. When a person's disclosing their traumas, that's not the time to talk about the folks who are falsely accused - it's triggering, derailing, and effectively silences survivors who have been falsely accused of making false accusations (which is why I hate the word "alleged" with a burning passion. It silences us. It makes us seem hysterical or untrustworthy. Then we're the ones under scrutiny and trial, while our attackers get off without any consequences). It reminds me of the easiest thing a person says to a true survivor of assault: "You're making it up." Or "are you sure that really happened?" I told, and I wasn't believed by the people who could have made a difference and kept me safe. It was made to be my fault. Just like so many others of the survivors here have dealt with.

Anyway. After the very depressing and harming and angering things that have happened in my life and the lives of so many women and men I know, I've pretty much decided this: the next time someone attempts to harm me, I won't bother going to the authorities. Don't need to be driven further towards a mental breakdown when it's a near certainty that nothing will be done anyway. No... if there's a next time, here's what will happen: I will claim one of my attacker's eyes, at the very least. It's very hard to assault someone when you've got a thumb in your eyes, I'm imagining. I will make them very sorry for ever having messed with me, and hopefully very hard for them to be able to mess with anyone in future, if I can. And then I will tell my story. Just once. To everyone all at once so that I don't have to deal with potentially harmful reactions each time I tell anew. Not so that anyone can validate me - just so they will know, so that it just might save another victim in the future.

But wait for the authorities to help? No. I'll handle it myself, in the moment, as best I can.

Lieswearmedown posted 9/26/2018 00:39 AM

Thank you SMS!

latebloomer45 posted 9/26/2018 03:44 AM

I've pretty much decided this: the next time someone attempts to harm me, I won't bother going to the authorities. Don't need to be driven further towards a mental breakdown when it's a near certainty that nothing will be done anyway. No... if there's a next time, here's what will happen: I will claim one of my attacker's eyes, at the very least. It's very hard to assault someone when you've got a thumb in your eyes, I'm imagining. I will make them very sorry for ever having messed with me, and hopefully very hard for them to be able to mess with anyone in future, if I can. And then I will tell my story. Just once. To everyone all at once so that I don't have to deal with potentially harmful reactions each time I tell anew. Not so that anyone can validate me - just so they will know, so that it just might save another victim in the future.

Amen. Recently at a fireworks show on the Rhine. Using my cane because my hip hurt. Crowds waiting for a train, cops letting so may people into the train station at a time, people pushing past me, I just stuck my cane between their feet so that they tripped. (didn't fall, too crowded.) They got the message and quit pushing. Thought I would feel guilt but I did not. Nobody else is going to fuck with me without consequences unless and until I'm incompetent to look after myself.

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