SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Many of you know my story, I have just gone through DD2 and we have separated. He is working on himself (in group and individual therapy with a "I want my wife back" mantra). I am not quite 180 but close. Ive seen a lawyer. In the beginning there was no trickle truth- he immediately admitted everything and more. He dove into healing and therapy- relapsed back into porn after a year. DDAY2 was the first time that I know of when he lied to me. I think he knew Id follow through on my boundary. Once confronted he admitted again. So.....moving forward....as I'm settling down and working on regulating my nervous system-why do so many feel the need to constantly say "there's more"addicts are liars "you dont know everything" etc etc. I mean I get it but obviously not EVERYONE has more secrets because there are many many stories of healing and reconciliation. Some WS really do want to be free from their addictions/ habits/ pain/trauma and do the work. I believe my WS is a good man whose trauma caught up with him and he has used Sex to self soothe....this is a man I have loved for 28 years and I do know him, see his pain, but am also, let me be clear, unwilling to live in that world. It feels like some kinda of breakdown and ......I choose to pray he breaks through.

You may be one of the luckier ones whose cheating spouse does provide the full truth and doesn’t hold back and hide details or information.

Unfortunately for many betrayed spouses/partners, that is not their experience.

Sometimes you have to ignore certain posts or advice here at SI if it’s too painful or doesn’t apply to your situation.

For betrayeds who have lived with people with sex addictions, they will often times share how many times they have faced their spouse who have lied to them about their addiction. That doesn’t mean your spouse will behave the same way. They are just sharing their experiences having been down the same path.

I hope this helps you.

They believe there is always more because that has been their personal experience.

Likely, thats the only experience they personally had, and, likely, they notice more of the stories where that is the case, and tend to not believe stories with so much similarities to their own in some ways and such a stark difference in the willingness to confess.

For them, there was always more, and how would the other BS know until they know?

I have had a lot of trouble in this area. Im glad if you arent.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 1:24 PM, Thursday, March 20th]

Thx for the reply’s. I understand others experiences and it is heartbreaking v and possibly I will find this to be the case here …. But I definitely get triggered when folks are insistent that I’m clueless and fooling myself. I’m a big girl with strong intuition. I’ve learned to listen to that.

Likely, thats the only experience they personally had, and, likely, they notice more of the stories where that is the case, and tend to not believe stories with so much similarities to their own in some ways and such a stark difference in the willingness to confess.

This is my experience. I was lied to in real-time during the affairs, I was lied to for 18 years after they ended. I was lied to for months while "coming clean". My wife went from someone I trusted implicitly to someone I didn’t trust at all. To someone I had "known" for 42 years that I didn’t really know at all…..

I knew little about infidelity at the beginning but I dove in. One of my biggest epiphanies was how similar everyone’s stories ended up being. Not the specifics per se but how things unfold, how common minimization, trickle truth and outright lying is. I became familiar with the "cheater’s playbook". Many of my fellow betrayed men and I compared notes and marveled at how our wives all seemed to be cut from the exact same cloth. The prevalence of these shared behaviors is very fascinating but also very heartbreaking.

Personally, I always knew there was more because things just didn’t add up. Some of the things I was told were full on preposterous. APs were withheld, things were minimized beyond belief and "I don’t remember" was employed relentlessly. More and more trickled out up until the polygraph. And you know what, there is likely more STILL out there. Does it matter? That depends on the individual IMO.

On D Day 1, I knew enough to leave and end the marriage. My wife had been unfaithful in the past. This included EAs, PAs, ONS and LTAs. That’s plenty to end it. But if I wanted to stay, I needed more. I needed the truth. I needed her to "own her shit". I needed the truth of my life all those years and what I would need to move past and potentially forgive. Anything less than the full truth is not enough. Many of my betrayed brothers have repeated the same thing….."it wasn’t the cheating that ended us, it was the constant lying, avoidance and inability to do the work". That’s where I am too.

Everyone is different. What you need or what you have gotten from your WS is between you and them. Unfortunately, there are many on here (and other forums) who feel the need to speak and advise in absolutes. It is very off-putting but as always "take what you need and leave the rest". I’m to the point of just skipping comments from certain people and saving myself the annoyance. There is still much non-triggering, caring good advice to be had.

I was so lost after Dday. My WW was lying to me, but I was believing her. I am so thankful to the members that insisted there was more, because when she finally confessed it was a lot of disclosure, way more than I knew.

The "Cheater’s Handbook" has proven itself. Over 5 years here 99.9% of post Dday behavior is predictable.

I learned a lot in our full disclosure but he hadn’t actually lied to me. I never asked the questions. Addicted to shopping food and self soothing with sex. It was a huge disclosure but there was never simply lying to my face ….

That’s why we say here "take what you need and leave the rest." Each individual here has to asses their own situation and make the best decisions for them.

Some WS’s change and some don’t but you won’t know until you get there.

I learned a lot in our full disclosure but he hadn’t actually lied to me. I never asked the questions. Addicted to shopping food and self soothing with sex. It was a huge disclosure but there was never simply lying to my face ….

Lying by omission is still lying. Also, some people barf everything up during disclosure, but more often there's a lot more to the story.

My thoughts exactly….lying by omission. If you don’t ask the "right" questions, is there still more? Who knows? What has he offered that you didn’t specifically ask about or likely wouldn’t have found out from investigating?

Many BSs get to the point where they feel they have enough info for themselves. It is an individual decision. If your gut tells you he has told the full story-answers are consistent-actions are also consistent-then maybe all is out in the open.

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 5:43 PM, Thursday, March 20th]

Personally, I always knew there was more because things just didn’t add up. Some of the things I was told were full on preposterous.

There are some pretty well-known indicators of lying, and one of the primary ones are stories that don't add up. Another is gut feel - remember: we are a lot more sensitive than the sensors on poly machines.

One reason I asked so many questions so many times in so many ways was that comparing answers and using the answers to find inconsistencies was a good way for me to determine if my W was truthful or not.

IOW, if you're actually hearing what he says, you may have everything. If you're asking the questions that really scare you, and his answers make good sense, you may have all you need.

*****

I'm concerned that your H is in therapy, etc. because he 'wants his W back.' That may be flattering, but I'd be more optimistic if he wanted to resolve his own issues in the knowledge that he'd be better off changing himself from cheater to good partner whether you came back or not.

If his motivation is to win you back, at best he'll spend his life trying to read your mind and please you - but that means he'll inevitably cross your boundaries. After infidelity, the WS's best bet is to go for authenticity - and give up trying to control the outcome.

Is that what your H is doing?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:29 PM, Thursday, March 20th]

It's damage limitation. The less they admit to, the less damage they think they'll have to repair, so they admit to the absolute minimum they think they'll get away with

[This message edited by Attlas at 4:48 PM, Thursday, March 20th]

I think we tend to deal in probabilities and odds on this site.
That’s because there are few if any absolutes in human interactions.
We insist that telling OP spouse will end the affair, yet we can’t guarantee it. It works in maybe 8 out of 10 cases... We also sometimes say that trying to keep it secret and not exposing to OP spouse gives you at best a 5/20 shot of the affair really being over.
Given the choice I would rather be dealing with 8/10 odds rather than the 15/20 that the affair is ongoing... But neither 8/10 nor 15/20 is a sure-shot.
In some ways it’s like putting on the seatbelt before driving a car. It’s done to improve your odds IF you have an accident, not because you plan on a crash.

It’s the same with the truth. It’s rare you get the whole truth. There is even the risk that getting the truth spawns new questions – creating a new or supplemented truth. But maybe your husband get’s it. Maybe he is telling the truth.

There is also the very real denial that traumatized people experience. The people in it don’t want to believe there is more. We stare at glaring holes in the story and hope beyond hope that the smoke does not in fact mean fire. It’s one of the great services of this community, that anonymous, experienced, relatively unbiased people can call a spade a spade.

People usually chime in sharing their own experiences and some are better than others at offering and sharing outside perspectives.

It can be hard to turn off the noise or advice from others, but I think *most* people mean well and *most* people are trying to pay it forward with advice that has helped them. It doesn’t mean that they’re right and it doesn’t mean that they’re wrong … maybe the "truth" falls somewhere between?

At the end of the day, nobody knows your M better than you. Some of the best advice and most true advice here is "take what you need and leave the rest."

It was a huge disclosure but there was never simply lying to my face …

I guess you get to decide what is acceptable or not to you, but for me, every day that my h is not telling me something I ought to know about his/our life IS lying.

Sataya,

In many cases BHs BWs don't continue to seek answers when the memories are fresh and the evidence is still available.

Years later perhaps when the shock and numbness wears off, perhaps the kids have left they reflect upon there past and it hits them.

At that time it's difficult to tell the difference between concealment and what's actually forgotten.

The WW thinks silence was forgiveness, but it was just quiet suffering after giving up on getting the truth.

The WW or WH might never have really recovered, carrying the guilt which gets in the way of ever recovering romantic love for their spouse.

These are a few reasons for the urgent advice to keep looking.

Satya -

We speak from our own experience, and address probabilities/patterns observed while participating here. Some are better at addressing probabilities vs stating absolutes than others. Think most folks responding here do recognize this = only you (the BS) know your situation, your partner, or your boundaries around what is acceptable. For me, lies of omission are still lies. H's lies of omission during the A were just as damaging as the early post D-day lies to my face. But, everyone is different. Maybe you do know everything you need, even if it's not ALL the truth. Maybe your H has told you everything - maybe. And maybe he is capable of slogging through the long. hard personal work required to become a better human being - hopefully for himself and not just because he's scrambling to save the marriage. So yes, if you're reasonably sure you have the truth, or are okay with what you DO know, please do "take what you need and leave the rest."

Another useful axiom/quotation that seems apt (forgot who said it) and often helps me keep perspective when something pushes my buttons:

"If it offends you it probably contains an element of truth."

If I feel offended/uncomfortable when someone says something about my life, sometimes the strong reaction is because the commentary touches on something real about me or my situation - or maybe it's a truth I'd rather not acknowledge.

Is it possible "there's always more" feedback upsets or "triggers" you because it resonates with an element of truth or reality you're uncomfortable with or are avoiding?

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 5:54 PM, Saturday, March 22nd]

If you saw a cockroach in your kitchen, would you assume there was only one in your home?

Because no matter how much the idea of hordes of roaches living in your home grosses you out, the reality of roach behavior is that they're not solitary creatures; they live in large groups and they usually only come out at night or hide out in dark spaces unnoticed... so by the time you actually see one, it's because there are hundreds or thousands living in your walls.

Cheating is the same way. It's never an isolated behavior. It's always part of a larger pattern of deceptive behavior.

Even assuming that your husband has told you the complete truth every time you've confront him, "not lying" is not the same thing as being honest. Every discovery of his cheating or his other compulsive behaviors has been the result of you digging for information on your own.

There are some cheaters who, when confronted, will try to lie, even when faced with evidence. But there are others, like your husband, who are clever enough to admit to the bare minimum of what he thinks you can prove. You will know that your husband is making progress when he starts offering up new information to you proactively, when he has no reason to believe he will be discovered, and turns to you for support and help before he acts out on his urges.

If you want to believe that you're the first and only person who has never been lied to by your WH, that's certainly your prerogative and there's nothing anybody can say that will convince you otherwise. My only advice to you then is to protect yourself by keeping your finances/credit completely separate, make sure you have substantial savings, and don't have sex with him (intercourse or oral) unless he uses condoms.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:49 PM, Friday, March 21st]

[If you want to believe that you're the first and only person who has never been lied to by your WH, that's certainly your prerogative and there's nothing anybody can say that will convince you otherwise./quote]

What ? I never said that 🤷‍♀️ I didn’t say he didn’t lie I said he came clean at disclosure