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Newest Member: Ozymandias

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Completely confused and all over the place

Topic is Sleeping.
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 5:04 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

NotJustAnotherGuy you have a PM.

posts: 10033   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8787933
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Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 5:34 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Ozzy,

You are mistaken if you think this is done. Not for you and not for the AP’s marriage. Your wife has tasted blood and will be thirsty for more. I bet there will be moments of weakness and yearning where they will communicate. This time she will not be honest. You will never find out and be under the impression that all is well. Exactly like the OBS ! So while you ( and the whole cheater team) get to play God and savior to the OBS, remember there is a possibility you will be like her at some point. Blissfully unaware.

I hope you all learnt your lessons. Next time you decide to open up your marriage and give permission to your wife to blow up somebody else’s marriage, please let them know. Just like you want to know who your wife sleeps with, another woman would like the same information.

posts: 273   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8787938
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 6:10 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Guys, he's not going to tell OBS.

He's told his wife that he agrees with her that ignorance is bliss and that it's really unkind to blow up someone else's marriage with inconvenient truths.

The only thing that might change his mind is when he discovers that this philosophy is and will continue to be applied to his own marriage by his WW and OM.

And Ozzy, when (not if) that day comes, we will be here for you.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1894   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8787942
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 6:30 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Ozzy,

I have to give you the credit to keep coming back and staying fully engaged in your thread. It doesn't matter if we are internet strangers or not--it takes courage to keep coming back to the harsh critiques.

Here's my hope--as you have said, and I definitely agree, you have changed since your first posting. You can see that no matter what 'level' of honesty is being used, infidelity is infidelity. Different stories and different versions, but the base is the same. I think that you see things similar to most of the members here now. But what I really hope, is that the change continues. That you realize agency is one of the most important things that we as people possess, and it is cruel to deliberately keep that agency, willingly, to the unknown party. That if your marriage has a chance to not just survive, but thrive, it needs to be done from a foundation of total honesty. The two of you being honest with one another is not enough, because both of you intruded into an innocent person's marriage. The TWO of you have a chance to right this wrong. Believe me, and I say this with 100% conviction---your marriage has a much better chance of survival with the OBS knowing than the current status quo. Secrets breed secrets, and that is what you want to purge going forward.

Keep thinking about it.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4346   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8787950
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Greto ( member #80904) posted at 6:38 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Sending good vibes and hope your way Ozzy. I don't think this will be easy for you two to navigate because your wife has lost physical interest in you and appears to see you as a nice friendly roommate but with counseling maybe you can find the lost connection.

I do think it is possible your wife has been honest this whole time unlike the majority think here. For your sake, I hope that honesty remains intact going forward.

Please keep us updated.

posts: 113   ·   registered: Sep. 9th, 2022   ·   location: Sandusky, Ohio
id 8787952
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de.va.sta.ted ( member #22922) posted at 6:47 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Just anecdotal but i didn’t tell the OBS because I wanted my family so so so badly.

He had another affair 9 years later, and we are now divorced.

Causal? No. But not a coincidence either.

The thing that really bites, as a betrayed spouse, is that I was making big financial and career decisions based on falsehoods. That my husband and I were a team and had each others back no matter what.

I know you’re not going to tell the OBS that her life is a lie but it sucks that she is making big life decisions without knowing that her husband doesn’t actually respect her.

Me: BW Him: WH D-Day 1: February 2009 D-Day 2: April 2018 Divorced!

posts: 1049   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2009
id 8787953
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 8:56 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

What I hope all of the good people on here can take some sort of positive from is that if I hadn't posted, I think I would have carried on letting it happen for a lot longer, become more and more miserable and increased the chance of both families blowing up.

👍🏽

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6638   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8787974
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 9:13 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Have you come to an agreement with your wife that she will block him on phone, email and social media, and about what she should do if either of them break no contact?

What will you do vis a vis the OBS if you learn they have broken no contact again. It’s happened once. It often happens early on? Is the non-disclosure pact / conspiracy then null and void?

[This message edited by straightup at 9:17 PM, Friday, April 21st]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 342   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8787979
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bob7777 ( member #79867) posted at 10:37 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

I understand you, I once was like you. You tell yourself that you have to look for your own best outcome and that's fair. On the other hand you will have to live with your own guilt that you let that happen which sort of chipped your relationship and damaged another. I don't know if you have any contact to OBS, but if you had, from now on you'll always have to lie. So you have to cover for your wife and her AP although you're a victim yourself, just to keep on going. I can tell you this isn't over it feels so much like rug sweeping. Don't be upset that many want you to tell OBS, it's because mostly when you are betrayed, the BS is kinda the last one to know, if people knew already, friends or acquaintances, you as the BS, when you eventually get to know that you were betrayed, additionally feel more ashamed and destroyed by realizing that you're the last one and no one warned you, it's devastating.
So what's your plan now? You put everything back in a box and hope for the best? I don't want to antagonize you, but at this point you should have realized that life is not how you thought it was, you should change things or priorities, maybe don't focus so much on your SO, don't be so much accommodating since she walked over you.

posts: 106   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2022
id 8788007
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 11:07 PM on Friday, April 21st, 2023

Ozzy, I continue to be happy to see the progress you've made since coming here. I hope your marriage gets fully back on track. It will take effort and persistance from your wife and you but it is possible. Be vigilant in the coming months as well. The reconciliation forum may be helpful for you.

I differ a bit from the others here regarding telling the OBS in your case. I am not sure it is as "mandatory" as so many here believe. Yes, she does not have her full agency without knowing. That we can't really argue. And not telling could prove bad in the long run. But it is also possible that her marriage will be positive from here forward. No one knows. However, there is usually a 'selfish' reason for telling OBS and that, at least right now, does not seem to apply to you. The selfish reason is to stop the affair from continuing; telling OBS can work wonders for that. As long as your FWW stays away from him, that benefit is not needed for you.

And I think that 'selfish' part of the puzzle is what actually gets a lot of BS to inform the OBS. That and a bit of enjoyment at steering the karma bus directly to the AP. I believe that fewer BS would inform the OBS if they were in a situation like yours. That doesn't exactly make it right but it makes it more understandable imo. I'm sure that won't be popular but I think it's realistic.

posts: 943   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8788011
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 3:36 AM on Saturday, April 22nd, 2023

Ozzy, (with kindness and empathy--- because I was there once too... almost all of us were)

If I was a Betraying Spouse, you are exactly the type of person I would hope to be married to.

**************
"I have convinced you that this was your fault, and you made me do it"
"I have convinced you to keep my secret from others, especially those who deserve the truth the most"
"I have convinced to to protect my reputation against all logic"
"I have convinced you that I am an wholly honest person, and the real victim"
"I have convinced you to not set any meaningful consequences"
"I have convinced you that I need no boundaries."
"I have convinced you this is all over"


I did all of this with minimal effort.
You didn't even put up a fight.

therefore:


I will never be attracted to you again.
I cannot respect you.
When I look at you, I will feel contempt.
When you touch me, I will feel disgusted.
I do not love you anymore.

This will make it irresistably easier to ....

I will have my cake, and I will eat it too.
I will continue my affair.
I will walk all over you.
Because I know.... you will never leave me.

I will not find happiness in my continued affair. But I'll just blame that on you.
******************


I really hope I'm wrong, but this is what I see.

And, since this is my first post in this thread.... Ozzy, I cannot stress how strongly I feel that you need to tell OBS everything you know. It is the right thing to do, not just for her, but for you, for him, and for your wife.

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8788048
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Babette2008 ( member #69126) posted at 4:07 AM on Saturday, April 22nd, 2023

Hi Ozzie

I am a latecomer to your thread but remember how hard the first year was. When you are committed to marriage, have a family and genuinely like and respect your spouse it is so hard to adjust your thinking when you discover that the reality you thought you knew isn't true. I think it's harder for people in longer marriages who liked their spouse because you think you really know them but you really don't.

My reason for joining this conversation is because your wife's honesty keeps coming up in your thread as a virtue or a reason why you are forced to go along with or agree to things that you really don't want. From my perspective she uses honesty as a red herring or like a magician's distraction. Because she has been honest about some things she feels that it gives her a pass for the ways in which she has acted and is acting badly. Being honest about your intention to hurt someone and then hurting them doesn't make the fact that you intentionally hurt them better. When she told you she wanted to sleep with the ex and you said she could but you didn't want her to, how did that make her action ok? You don't control her and you are not her internal ethical police. She had to know that she was blowing up your marriage and she was harming her ex's marriage. She made the decision that doing what felt good to her was more important than doing what was ethical or good for your marriage. being "honest" just let's her shift the blame.

Just because she has been honest about some things doesn't mean she's fundamentally honest, her fear about the other wife learning about the affair, her not telling you about having feelings for this ex earlier are both concrete examples. She doesn't want the wife to know because that will be another person who knows that she acted badly. She wants to control what information is given out basically she is using her "honesty" to control your reactions. She isn't really looking out for anyone's interest but hers right now. Your negotiations with her should take that into account. She may change but it's early days and she still seems to be trying to control the outcome.

posts: 250   ·   registered: Dec. 14th, 2018
id 8788052
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Hurthalo ( member #41782) posted at 8:22 AM on Saturday, April 22nd, 2023

G'day Ozzy,

In regards to the OM, what is your plan if she re-intiates contact? Has there been an agreement to NC going forward?

I always preface what I am going to say with 'gently', but having been through this before, there is higher than better chance than average that she will continue talking to him in some fashion. The inevitable excuse might be 'we are just friends, don't you trust me?' Bear in mind that in the Cheater's Handbook, your wife will mourn his loss. As a likely narcissist, she will internally see this as the loss of her 'potential great love'. And I'm sorry mate, if they started talking four years ago, then this affair wasn't just 2 times in the sack, it's been going on for a long time. Your wife might claim otherwise, but as a poster told me, 'when your wife suggest opening up the marriage, they have already peeled a pony from the pack.' That pony in your case was OM.

Bluntly, it is highly unlikely she will be able to just forget him as of their last meeting.

Going forward, what is your plan to work on the marriage going forward? We have ascertained that your wife's behaviour and traits have shown some very concerning narcissism trends. Narcissists that cheat often feel 'entitled' to cheat. They often have little empathy for their partner while they are doing so. Has your wife agreed to IC/MC to solve this and work out why she feels this way? Noting the OBS isn't going to be informed, has your wife given you a full timeline of her affair with OM?

If you rug-sweep this, or let your wife convince you that 'oh I feel bad about it, but it really was nothing but a thing. Onwards and upwards' then I can guarantee you that you will be here again. Just like I was 8 years later. And that was after significant IC/MC and rebuilding of trust. Their narcissism almost dictates they will cheat again, despite their protestations that they never will. Ask me how I learned that lesson.

[This message edited by Hurthalo at 8:24 AM, Saturday, April 22nd]

posts: 312   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2013   ·   location: Australia
id 8788067
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Mene ( member #64377) posted at 4:04 AM on Sunday, April 23rd, 2023

Haven’t been on SI for a while.

Read the whole thread. Took a couple of hours.

I must say I felt a sense of panic when you agreed to your wife’s initial demands to sleep with this POS.

Then felt another sense of panic when you informed us all that you won’t be informing the OBS.

You’ve taken on board most of the advice the good folk here have given you but one crucial one you refuse to take action on.

INFORM THE OBS! NOW!

By doing so you give the poor woman some agency in her life. And the opportunity to protect herself. Especially her health.

The man that you allowed to have sex with your wife will be emboldened by this experience and will go on wrecking other families. Because there were no consequences for him. Do you want this to happen? Other families hurt?

And why do you think your children will be harmed if the OBS learns the truth? Your children can be protected from the fallout (if there is one) if you and your wife undertake certain steps.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 869   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
id 8788153
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 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 10:48 AM on Monday, April 24th, 2023

Ozzy, I continue to be happy to see the progress you've made since coming here. I hope your marriage gets fully back on track. It will take effort and persistance from your wife and you but it is possible. Be vigilant in the coming months as well. The reconciliation forum may be helpful for you.

I differ a bit from the others here regarding telling the OBS in your case. I am not sure it is as "mandatory" as so many here believe. Yes, she does not have her full agency without knowing. That we can't really argue. And not telling could prove bad in the long run. But it is also possible that her marriage will be positive from here forward. No one knows. However, there is usually a 'selfish' reason for telling OBS and that, at least right now, does not seem to apply to you. The selfish reason is to stop the affair from continuing; telling OBS can work wonders for that. As long as your FWW stays away from him, that benefit is not needed for you.

And I think that 'selfish' part of the puzzle is what actually gets a lot of BS to inform the OBS. That and a bit of enjoyment at steering the karma bus directly to the AP. I believe that fewer BS would inform the OBS if they were in a situation like yours. That doesn't exactly make it right but it makes it more understandable imo. I'm sure that won't be popular but I think it's realistic.

Hope everyone had a good weekend. Mine was pretty interesting to say the least. First, I think this post has encapsulated what I couldn't quite understand, and where my situation is different.

Sending good vibes and hope your way Ozzy. I don't think this will be easy for you two to navigate because your wife has lost physical interest in you and appears to see you as a nice friendly roommate but with counseling maybe you can find the lost connection.

I do think it is possible your wife has been honest this whole time unlike the majority think here. For your sake, I hope that honesty remains intact going forward.

Please keep us updated.

Combining these 2 quotes gives me my situation. The affair is over. If anyone would like what I think it categorical, absolute proof, her parents now know everything. Her Mum came over on Sunday morning while her Dad took the kids out so that she could mediate while we talked about things. There is no-one more invested (other than my wife and I) in our marriage working than them, as they don't want to see their grandkids lives blown up.

POSOM also has regret, maybe he will tell her, maybe he won't. But in their relationship, as it stands maybe things will be stronger as he realises what a POSOM he has been. I am not going to interfere in their process. Sorry again if this triggers and this may well be the end of me on this forum, or maybe I do need to move to the R thread, I don't know. Happy to be given advice.

So the second quote is where we are. Unfortunately this whole debacle has made our relationship worse (some may enjoy that karma, if so, fill your boots) and has just re-emphasised how the physical attraction hasn't been there a long time. She is an absolute mess and needs to work out how to fix herself, let alone our relationship. Whether I can come back from this is hard to answer as well. We know we can co-parent and get to a stage where we are not fighting, but at this point she can't imagine even wanting to kiss me, let alone have sex. Obviously that isn't sustainable. We have a couple of intros with CCs so will see if we can find one we get on with.

Has anyone come back from their WS having no physical attraction for them? She acknowledges that I am good looking (as I said previously, despite everything my confidence in myself is high right now, I think I will do fine if this fell apart) but for the families sake I would still like things to work. A lot of healing to be done on my part but she has been much more empathetic to what has happened over the weekend so that is a start.

@hurthalo thanks again for your contribution. I do think there are differences in our situations but that isn't to say I won't be on alert and wary. Though the honesty the whole way through gives me comfort.

On honesty - a few people has said that doesn't absolve her. My apologies if I have made it sound like it does. This whole episode has hurt me brutally. I don't know if I can come back from it. BUT the honesty means that I don't think I have been hurt nearly as much as 99% of posters on here. There has been no going behind my back etc.

I don't know OBS in case that wasn't clear. I don't know POSOM either. They live about 100 miles away so no chance of bumping into either of them.

We were talking about the fog last night and I think she is understanding that at least an element of her current thinking is that, but unfortunately it is mostly wishful thinking on my part. She genuinely has lost physical attraction for me and can't see it coming back. We need to work with that reality and come to a solution which is best for the whole family.

Thanks as always for the responses. Let me know if not telling OBS is a sticking point and if it is now time for me to leave / move to another thread / etc. Support with a WW who basically no longer loves me is what I am hoping to get now, and the strong potential of D.

Cheers, Ozzy.

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8788256
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Stich ( new member #80536) posted at 11:36 AM on Monday, April 24th, 2023

However, there is usually a 'selfish' reason for telling OBS and that, at least right now, does not seem to apply to you. The selfish reason is to stop the affair from continuing; telling OBS can work wonders for that. As long as your FWW stays away from him, that benefit is not needed for you.

I think this post has encapsulated what I couldn't quite understand, and where my situation is different.

This post did not encapsulate the difference, and this is not a real 'selfish' reason.

1. Almost every WW says that the affair is over. Most WW agrees to NC sooner or later. So this is not a difference between you and others.

2. If we consider only selfish reasons for telling the OBS, then helping NC enforce to stop the affair is only a surface reason. Much more important is to force POS to make a choice. When OBS knows, he must choose between OBS and WW. Usually, the WW is immediately thrown under a bus. It then shows WW in a clear way that their love was an illusion and it was a mistake. It is POS that delivers that message.

In your situation, WW is clearly a monogamist by nature. She loves POS. She does not want to cheat on him with you. So until she wakes up, the affair is still ongoing in her mind. She is in love, and you cannot win with a dream.

As for the difference, there is one. You gave consent to physical part of the affair. Therefore as an adult, you are partly responsible even when we consider the coercive nature of the situation. Therefore it's harder for you to face yourself and face OBS, which you've helped to harm.

[This message edited by Stich at 11:39 AM, Monday, April 24th]

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: Central Europe
id 8788259
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 11:41 AM on Monday, April 24th, 2023

My advice for you is this - stop this pick me dance. You did everything you could to save this marriage. You gave in to her whims. You let her destroy another marriage. You let her have sex with this guy. You even let her go for that 'closure' meet. All these things incredibly hurt you, and yet you did them with the hope of saving your marriage. Did any of that work? No. It only demonstrated that this pick me dance only makes things worse. So, now stop focusing on your wife. Focus on you and your children. It's not your job to make her feel attracted to you. It's not your job to bring her out of this fog. If she wants to save this marriage as much as you do, then she will make tough decisions and walk difficult path to make it happen just like you did. The ball is in her court now. You just focus on yourself. Go to IC. Spend quality time with your kids. Heal. Follow hard 180. You must start your process of getting out of infidelity. If your wife wants it too, then she will follow your path. I get the feeling that you are now at the acceptance stage.

posts: 457   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8788261
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 12:31 PM on Monday, April 24th, 2023

How would telling his wife blow up your kids life???

She feels so bad, so remorseful, and has said she doesn't want to lose time with the kids.


SO WHAT WOULD CHANGE FOR THE KIDS????

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6626   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8788264
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Stich ( new member #80536) posted at 12:35 PM on Monday, April 24th, 2023


Not telling could prove bad in the long run. But it is also possible that her marriage will be positive from here forward. No one knows.


POSOM also has regret, maybe he will tell her, maybe he won't. But in their relationship, as it stands maybe things will be stronger as he realises what a POSOM he has been.

"No one knows" is a lie that sounds right but is not. The fact that nobody knows the future is not a valid point, as it's always true for every argument. Using this logic, we should never do anything.
If you stop caring about your children, it may be better for them as they could be more resilient and have a better life. No one knows, so why not? But at the same time, we know that most children have a much better life if their parents care for them.
If you throw a brick at a random person, they may be in hospital, and it may save their life because the tumor in their head may be found. No one knows. But we know that crashing brick to the head is usually quite unhealthy.

The fact is, we know. We know that most people want to know about an affair. We know that the vast majority of marriages will dissolve if there is an unknown affair. We know that the chance that POS wakes up is slim. So please, let's not say that no one knows. We do.

Obviously, you do you.

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: Central Europe
id 8788266
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:53 PM on Monday, April 24th, 2023

Yo answer your question about whether a marriage can rebound when the attraction is "lost" by the cheater — the answer is different in every case.

I can tell you my H gave me the ILYBNILWY (I love you but not in love with you) during his 2nd affair. He was planning to D me. To say I was blindsided was an understatement.

At dday2 my H was begging ME to R. I had no intention of R b/c I was done. I still loved him but I had nothing left to give him or the Marriage thanks to his affair.

It will soon be 10 years from dday1 and yes, he realized his mistakes. Fortunately we were able to R and we are very happy.

In your case I don’t know what will happen with your marriage. Best you can do is focus on YOU and what is best for you — whatever that may be.

Please don’t feel obligated to remain silent about your needs. A good marriage is made up of two people who want to be together and are happy.

You cannot decide to stay for the kids (as an example) and think it will be a happy life for you. If you are unhappy now you need to address it so your kids have the best home life possible.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13852   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8788269
Topic is Sleeping.
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