SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am sorry Ozzie, but your WW is walking all over you.

She had an affair, which you condoned.

She SAID she ended the affair, but you have no way of knowing for sure.

No consequences for your WW, you are still there like an obedient hen-pecked husband.

You even agreed to WW and AP's edict that OBS not be told.

There is no reason to believe that your WW even respects you as her husband and that she will not step out again. She doesn't even seem regretful for her actions, nevermind remorseful for hurting you.

I do wish you well, mate. I am afraid that I don't see your approach in this ending well for you OR your family though.

HF & co

OPs insistence that the situation is unique and the circumstances misunderstood when challenged is a bit of a red flag. There is mutuality here, not one person steam rolling over the other.

Don't think I can read anymore on this thread either. Over and out!

From my limited perspective I remember reading a decent amount of BS experiences on SI (no soliciting) that chose not to inform OBS. Some later changed their mind and took action, some did not. I do not recall anyone being so harshly confronted or judged as in this thread.

Ozzy is 6 weeks from Dday. Yes, it is a dday which he was initially complicit in but regardless it's only 6 weeks. How many of us made mistake after mistake in the first 6 weeks? How many got everything right?

Give the guy a break on this issue. His heart may change on it and/or dynamics may change with his marriage. Imo, few people change from consistent badgering. And yes, well thought out arguments and sage advice that get delivered ad nauseum can still be a form of badgering.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:24 AM, Wednesday, April 26th]

bob7777 - you may have misunderstood my quote. I meant we are not like other couples in that I gave her my blessing to sleep with this guy. We were both excited by the prospect. Granted, I said I would rather not be in this situation in the first place but given the situation I was in, I came to be OK with the idea that she could have the fun she desired. Yes, that feeling went away for me very quickly but it was there.

I believe I understand you quite well. Forgive me if I give you the impression to offend you by telling you are average, not special nor unique, that is not my intention. And I see that it is harsh on you, in your current state. Nonetheless, when you said

We thought we are not like other couples etc

I believe that you thought, no matter what was up then, that you both could get over it, get through it, because you two are special, not like other couples. That what connects you both, the honesty, the love, the deep understanding of you both will help you getting through this "phase". I think I understood you right, if not then please tell.

This thinking is your big issue, and the circle ends here, I presume most thought this, I thought this. The thought of being special like all those years ago you thought you were, your relationship was, your partner was, is was hold you back. I assume, you desperatedly try to hold everything together, all the tiny bits and strings that are you, your family, your relationship. And thinking that you are holding something special, the love, the honesty, the uniqueness, that's kinda the super-glue. I thought so too. You don't want to let go, because that could mean you never were special.

Mamabear said it so well,

A second D-day, 2 years later. Because the affair wasn’t properly blown up/outted, it was much easier for them to rekindle things a bit down the line when reconciliation got hard. When the marriage got hard again, he still had her to turn to, and she still had nothing to lose since her spouse didn’t know.

You think not telling protects your relationship, but the reality is that it makes it MUCH more vulnerable.

I blew it up the second time, shared with the OBS all of the info I had from both affairs (and apologized profusely), threw my husband out, and filed for divorce.

So, in your case, a 2nd D-day doesn't have to be another affair or another guy. It can just be that your relationship isn't gonna hold together and in a few months or even years you suddenly and surprisingly will realize that your wife has checked out and is moving on. Then it will come crushing down on you. That's what I was talking about when I said, don't hold back, say those things as in telling OBS when it matters. Let's say it's over in 3 years, then you will regret it that you never told OBS and it won't matter anymore, not for OBS nor for the power dynamic in your then dead relationship. What I mean is this, atm you try to hold everything together, so desperatedly that you are willing to do things you won't do otherwise, you are willing to silence yourself. But there is the possibility, and most here would rather say, probability that this won't hold. And in the end you possibly will have regrets which will haunt you more than by having now a clean slate and maybe suffering some repercussions. Getting a hit but being content with oneself and knowing that you did the right thing is easier to live with than having to live with regrets.

You try to hold on to a relationship that already is broken and you don't want to acknowledge it, you can't go back just by doing what you're doing. Your relationship, the one you thought was unique, ended when your wife and "you" let another man into it, let your wife fall in love with another man. You can only try to build a new relationship, but this is totally another topic which is far away at this point.

[This message edited by bob7777 at 12:42 AM, Wednesday, April 26th]

Mamabear, thanks for this. An empathetic view of the situation. At this point we are not remotely reconciled. If I feel like we are getting to that point then further conversations will obviously be needed. I am only 3 months in at this point.

I fear you misunderstood my sentiments. What I meant is that you can’t reconcile properly without all parties involved and harmed knowing the truth. If there is still a secret from OBS, there is no true reconciliation and your marriage remains at high risk. All cards must be on the table to BEGIN reconciliation, not to achieve it. I wish desperately I understood this 3 months out of my first d-day, so I’m sharing it with you so you can avoid similar mistakes.

I say this knowing full well you won’t follow the advice, but I hope it plants the seed, and that you’ll remember it down the road when things aren’t going quite as you hoped they would.

You seem lost because this whole situation is a convoluted mess, and it seems to have messed with your sense of right and wrong, not just your wife’s. I hope with the help of therapy you can find your way again. For you. Not for your wife or children. But for you, and who you wish to be as life move onwards. Best of luck on the journey.

[This message edited by Mamabear2813 at 2:12 AM, Wednesday, April 26th]

@ Mamabear2813... Thanks for sharing that post with us today. It's often so helpful for new members to read anecdotal accounts from others while they're mulling over their own situation. I do remember when I was in the JFO stage how I poured over books and threads looking for other people's stories. What a great share on your first post.

Thank you Chamomile, but I’ve been around since 2017! I just lost my login. When I signed up back in the day I was so worried about confidentiality and so when I somehow got logged off of my phone a few months back I lost ALL the info. Couldn’t remember my PW, and I had the account linked to an email I don’t have access to anymore. But I still lurk as it’s like my ongoing therapy, and when I see someone who don’t want to tell the OBS to protect their own marriage, I try to save our new folks the heartache, or at least offer an alternative perspective, so i made a new account so I could post! It’s nice to be back.

Oz,

No judgement.

I hope that you will continue to look into your boundaries with your IC. As per my previous post, it looks like you take the path of least conflict (people pleaser), and will change your own behaviour and morals to suit the other person so that you avoid any conflict.

If this mindset continues, it will not serve you well on the long run, and I foresee further tragedies befalling you if you do.

Whatever course you take, please keep working on yourself, to 'know' who you are, so that you end up being more confident of who you are.

Note: I think I understand what you were trying to convey about being excited with the prospect of your WW meeting up with her AP. My guess is that you were excited about getting closer to your WW after she had satiated her thirst for her AP, and not that you were excited for your WW to sleep with her AP. The problem you had was that you had set aside the 'ick' factor, and suddenly realised that the 'ick' factor was actually important for you to avoid.

Ozzy:

How do you know your wife and AP did not plan this in advance? Not sure what advice you are looking for since you have the mindset that your wife was completely honest with you that you drank the coolaid. Also not sure why you will not do the right thing and tell the AP's wife. She seems to be the unknowign victem in all this. Why does your wife and AP not want to tell her? Could it be their plan is working or has worked? i am sure they are planning another get together and your wife will ask you about it soon. One more time for old times sake.

I checked out of this conversation after commenting twice early on…I still stand by everything I said then but for whatever reason decided that adding a cautionary tale here could be helpful to you, or someone else. Take what you need and leave the rest. But I speak from experience, like all of us here trying to help you navigate this shit storm you find yourself in.

The truth finds a way. It always does. Never doubt that for a second. And when the truth comes out, you won’t be calling the shots or controlling the fall out. The collateral damage of the selfish choices made by the three of you will reach far and wide. You can absolutely count on that.

Long story short…My fWH had a 2 year long affair with a neighbour. Her husband found out 6 months in but he chose not to tell me because he(in his infinite wisdom and in his words) didn’t want to blow up my life like my husband had blown up his. They had little kids at the time. He claimed he wanted to protect me and my son from it all. He took it upon himself to threaten my husband, forbidding him from further contact with his wife. He and his wife then tried to continue on in their marriage together, keeping everything hush hush, while attempting reconciliation.

Guess what happened? It went underground. The OW’s husband again found out they were still going at it like rabbits a couple months later and kicked her out. Filed for divorce. His lawyer also suggested he NOT contact me to disclose as it could make his divorce that much messier. What she doesn’t know won’t hurt her. Blissfully unaware, if you will. Now my husband was free to meet her on a side road or a hotel room anytime he had a chance. And that he did! I was still none the wiser. How thoughtful of them all!

Fast forward two years after the infidelity began. I find evidence of it all because my husband got sloppy. Didn’t matter that we had moved far away from her 6 months before I found this evidence, because they were still texting, sexting, and reminiscing about sex they had behind everyone’s back. OW was proud as hell of her conquest…and neither one of them had any plans to fully severe ties. They planned to keep their little charade going for as long as they could, even though OW now even had a serious boyfriend she was cheating on with my H.

When I found out, I immediately did my research and found the OBS. He filled me in on all the sordid details that he should have shared with me in the first place. (Oh, and btw, cheaters always say it was ‘just two times’. It’s almost hilarious how many times we have heard that line from the cheaters handbook. it’s total bullshit!). I also took my husbands old and current cell phones and used a program to retrieve all their deleted messages. I went through all the old bank statements. I told everyone. I went scorched earth.

Well let me tell ya, I blew that shit up. Had I known sooner, who knows, maybe that OBS who claimed he was only trying to protect me might have had a chance to save his marriage when he first found out 6 months in(and no, ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance blew my family up, almost killed me and gave me a sexually transmitted bacterial infection). But no, his silence certainly sealed the deal by allowing the affair to continue for 2 years! He acted very cowardly and selfishly, and I hate him as much as I hate his wife for their roles in the pain that my children and I have endured for the last 5 years. I’d like to say that I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy but….you know, karma’s a bitch and I hope it bites them all in the ass one day.

It took a lot of effort on their parts to keep me in infidelity even when I didn’t know that’s where I was. But the second I knew the truth, I took back every bit of agency owed to me. And if the OBS thought he was doing me a favour, he has absolutely since learned that all he did was do an injustice to us all at a time when honesty, integrity and simply doing the right thing would have made all the difference.

I sincerely hope that you find it within yourself to set aside any selfish reasons you currently use to justify your choices, and just do the right thing for everyone involved.

Best of luck.

[This message edited by yellowledbetter at 7:19 PM, Thursday, April 27th]

  Moving to General

Not sure whether the mods moving this to general will cool things off a bit, lets see.

From my limited perspective I remember reading a decent amount of BS experiences on SI (no soliciting) that chose not to inform OBS. Some later changed their mind and took action, some did not. I do not recall anyone being so harshly confronted or judged as in this thread.

Ozzy is 6 weeks from Dday. Yes, it is a dday which he was initially complicit in but regardless it's only 6 weeks. How many of us made mistake after mistake in the first 6 weeks? How many got everything right?

Give the guy a break on this issue. His heart may change on it and/or dynamics may change with his marriage. Imo, few people change from consistent badgering. And yes, well thought out arguments and sage advice that get delivered ad nauseum can still be a form of badgering.

Thanks so much for this. You are right, as I am new to this there are 2 things that spring to mind:

1) This is very new to me as you said. In the current dynamic it doesn't seem to make sense for me to tell (I will expand on this)
2) If I am absoultely, brutally honest, though the advice I have received has mostly been great (I refer to my 90/10 and the hangup on the 10) I feel that there are people who were hurt a very long time ago, but seem to spend every waking moment on this forum years later. That hurt seems immense and I am hoping that I am not in that situation in years to come. It is hard for me not to think if there is a chance of me avoiding the OBS spending every moment on this forum for years then at this point it makes sense for me to allow her to continue living her life. I know that won't make sense to those screaming at me but I think to a certain few posters it will.

Though I have fucked up in many, many ways, and I do have empathy (I really do), what if the OBS's relationship will be getting better now that POSOM realises the error of his ways? The closure meeting was both of them agreeing how much they had fucked up. It is over. I know people will shoot me down yet again but I know my wife. She is in absolute bits about what she has done and is considering going on anti-depressants. By all accounts POSOM was in a similar state. It is over. If there is any hint that it is not, she will tell me (as she has told me all along).

Mamabear, I did understand and sorry if my response wasn't well worded. I totally understand where you are coming from and sorry you had to go through that. I know people think I am naive and stupid (in many ways I have been) but I am still yet to hear anyone say that their other half told them exactly when and where it would happen, and then all the gory detail afterwards. If she contacts him, she will tell me. I know this and can only trust my instinct here (the closure meeting worked exactly as intended even against all advice here).

@yellowledbetter again so sorry for your situation. I am on red alert and do understand everyone's point. And despite others thoughts, OBS is part of my thinking in all this. I can't tell you how much I regret all of this but based on the info I have to hand I don't think ruining her life intentionally makes sense right now.

My brain is independent and thinking of all of the outcomes constantly and I am trying to do the best overall with the hand that I currently have. I do find it ironic that so many people are saying "YOU ARE SO PATHETIC BEING BEATEN DOWN BY YOUR WIFE BUT WHY WON'T YOU DO EXACTLY AS YOU ARE TOLD BY PEOPLE ON HERE". As trdd said it has become hard to see the forest for the trees at times. And whoever said I feel like I need to get out of the kitchen, not true. It just feels like my presence in the kitchen has triggered a lot of people and for that I am sorry. I am thick skinned and take all of the info on board while trying to filter through the hatred.

Note: I think I understand what you were trying to convey about being excited with the prospect of your WW meeting up with her AP. My guess is that you were excited about getting closer to your WW after she had satiated her thirst for her AP, and not that you were excited for your WW to sleep with her AP. The problem you had was that you had set aside the 'ick' factor, and suddenly realised that the 'ick' factor was actually important for you to avoid.

@RocketRaccoon - thanks so much for articulating exactly what I clearly haven't been able to very well. In the timeline, before your quote was being told that there was no physical attraction and then when she said she had feelings for him, I remembered the happiness the escapism of seeing him as a friend gave her (no, they didn't have sex). And then the end of the quote, it wasn't just the 'ick' of them having sex, it was me starting to look at it from an objective point of view, thinking about the OBS (believe it or not everyone else) and the fact that my wife was just a participant in someone elses affair. Just gross.

Finding this site gave me the confidence to tell my wife to end it very quickly. She did. Our relationship is a fucking mess which I don't know if we will recover from but the affair is over.

To whoever asked about the holiday, it was booked a year ago, there are bigger factors in play than just the 2 of us (we are going with friends whose issues make ours look ridiculous - health issues I won't go into) so we are not going to cancel. We are both very clear on the situation now - me that she has lost attraction to me a long time ago and her that the last few months I may not be able to come back from so a chance to actually get some breathing space away from home could help. She can see the pain she has caused and the subsequent result this may have on the children so we have a starting point. Have our first chat with a CC tonight. IC is going well for both of us (sounds like some revelations were found in hers last night) so we may have a chance.

Again, early days.

Depending on responses I will update again tomorrow but then will take a break while on holiday. Again, heartfelt thanks to everyone, including those that despise me. I know your heart is in the right place and I know where you are coming from. My mind is open to change depending on circumstance. I know I have fucked up (a lot) but as I have said several times now, I have instigated change due to my time here which is better than the alternative (though I know they are 2 shit alternatives).

Ozzy

Staying away from telling the OBS subject let me ask you this? Do you you think your wife’s losing attraction to you is the same as her losing respect for you? Could they be one in the same? I know you want to stay with your wife if at all possible. So consider my question and if the answer is yes then find out why she does not respect you. That is my advice to you. It may surprise you where that journey leads you to. Good luck Ozzie.

Perhaps there is no real need for you to post moving forward. If your wife is no longer attracted to you you then have to decide what you want: stay together regardless for the kids, but no doubt D after they’re out of the house; stay together indefinitely with your wife never being attracted to you but providing duty sex; stay together with your wife being not attracted to you and resume a one sided open relationship; stay together with your wife being not attracted to you and opening the relationship on both sides; stay together, spend many years in couples snd IC trying to get your wife to be attracted to you and living happily ever after; recognize the reality of the situation now, decide that your wife will never be attracted to you, snd D while you are young enough to find a woman who is attracted to you. I may have missed some options…

I feel that there are people who were hurt a very long time ago, but seem to spend every waking moment on this forum years later. That hurt seems immense and I am hoping that I am not in that situation in years to come. It is hard for me not to think if there is a chance of me avoiding the OBS spending every moment on this forum for years then at this point it makes sense for me to allow her to continue living her life. I know that won't make sense to those screaming at me but I think to a certain few posters it will.

There are people who were hurt a very long time ago and actually choose to spend the time and effort to help people who are going through a similar experience now.

In fact, this site wouldn’t even exist without the creators and mods who recovered years ago but are committed to helping people now.

You say you hope you’re not still on here and in deep hurt for years to come. That is what everyone who has taken the time to regularly post on your thread is trying to help you prevent.

Maybe you should appreciate the people who have taken time to regularly post—even if you disagree— instead of disparaging them.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:13 PM, Thursday, April 27th]

Dammit. Dipping back in to clarify.

I am sure I am someone who you think is terribly hurting years later. Not at all. Dday was over a decade ago. We are reconciled. I am healed. I am here to give back to the site that helped me,even as a lurker.

That 10% you find so awful? Excellent advice. You've received nothing but excellent advice. Just because that 10% isn't something you want to hear,doesn't make it bad advice.

And,finally, maybe this thread was moved because you are not a BH. You've insisted you're different from everyone else here. You insist your wife has been completely honest, therefore you have not been betrayed. There was no affair, because you gave permission. The ONLY infidelity is happening in the boyfriend's marriage. Can't even call her an OBS, because that implies you have also been betrayed. Also, despite what someone above said, there was no dday. D stands for discovery.

You've known all along. Therefore no discovery. Maybe it was moved because there are people in jfo who have been betrayed, and having someone posting there who hadn't was off putting.

To add..I don't despise you. I feel sorry for you. You are trying so hard to prevent what we all see coming. You are doing everything you can..except taking the advice that would best help you. Many of us have been trying really hard to help you, but you refuse to help yourself.

I do wish you luck. We will be here if you find out she is seeing him again..this time behind your back.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:08 PM, Thursday, April 27th]

Bluerthanblue:

There are people who were hurt a very long time ago and actually choose to spend the time and effort to help people who are going through a similar experience now.

In fact, this site wouldn’t even exist without the creators and mods who recovered years ago but are committed to helping people now.

You say you hope you’re not still on here and in deep hurt for years to come. That is what everyone who has taken the time to regularly post on your thread is trying to help you prevent.

Maybe you should appreciate the people who have taken time to regularly post—even if you disagree— instead of disparaging them.

It really wasn't my intention to disparage - I was just following up on trdd's point and the big skull and final warning further up the page that suggests the mods agree that there has been a bit of a pile on. Unfortunately for someone in my state it isn't going to change my mind. That doesn't mean that I don't understand the points being made as I have said many times.

I kind of feel with a few posters there is a line in the sand now since I am clearly not going to tell the BS (I can leave off the O - fair enough) at this point. I get that, I really do. As I said though I appreciate all of the advice and the sentiment, I just don't want anyone's day / week ruined by an internet stranger (ie. me). As things evolve my position could well also change.

@hellfire I know that the 10% isn't bad advice. It is advice I have taken on board, which I don't think will help anything right now. This could change though. I am not saying no, never, I am just working with the here and now. 1000 apologies again that this isn't what you and others want to hear.

Staying away from telling the OBS subject let me ask you this? Do you you think your wife’s losing attraction to you is the same as her losing respect for you? Could they be one in the same? I know you want to stay with your wife if at all possible. So consider my question and if the answer is yes then find out why she does not respect you. That is my advice to you. It may surprise you where that journey leads you to. Good luck Ozzie.

I don't think she has lost respect for me as such - she is the one in a girls group who sings her husbands praises more than any other. She thinks I am pretty great all round, EXCEPT the physical attraction.

I think the below list is a good one, and I think does a good job of summarising where I think I am:

Perhaps there is no real need for you to post moving forward. If your wife is no longer attracted to you you then have to decide what you want: stay together regardless for the kids, but no doubt D after they’re out of the house;

Very slim chance. Can't do this for another 10 years even if we got back to where we were before the past few months - too many things have now been said / done

stay together indefinitely with your wife never being attracted to you but providing duty sex;

Zero chance

stay together with your wife being not attracted to you and resume a one sided open relationship;

Zero chance. As said previously it was never "one-sided", it was just stupid saying yes when she had it ready to go and I didn't (and didn't actually really want it anyway)

stay together with your wife being not attracted to you and opening the relationship on both sides;

Slight possibility. This would require a lot more forward planning though and obviously done in a way that wasn't a complete fuckup like this time. Again, it was my realisation of how wrong it all was that led me here. Apologies again for the triggering that has caused.

stay together, spend many years in couples snd IC trying to get your wife to be attracted to you and living happily ever after;

This is the ultimate goal, but it can't take years. Can't put a specific timeframe on it but I think with decent IC for both of us and the right CC she might realise how much she would regret the alternative and I might be able to move forward from this.

recognize the reality of the situation now, decide that your wife will never be attracted to you, snd D while you are young enough to find a woman who is attracted to you. I may have missed some options…

Though this isn't what either of us really want, I think this is most likely. I think the option above could have been more possible if it wasn't for this massive fuckup but here we are.

Apologies one more time for sounding ungrateful if that is how it comes across. Forums can be tricky places. I respect everyone here and their views, and would happily buy you all a beer if fate ever saw us cross paths. My brain is constantly mulling everything over, I promise. Screaming at me to tell BS now won't change anything in the here and now. I have that message loud and clear and have taken it on board.

Hope that can clear the water a little. I know there probably isn't much more to say right now anyway.

Hope all those waking up across the pond have a good day.

[This message edited by Ozzy1788 at 2:17 PM, Thursday, April 27th]

I don't think she has lost respect for me as such - she is the one in a girls group who sings her husbands praises more than any other. She thinks I am pretty great all round, EXCEPT the physical attraction.

Just because your wife likes you and doesn't have active contempt for you does not mean that she respects you. She might greatly appreciate how well you perform at your role as a domestic partner (ie, "husband appliance") and the fact that you're a loving and active father to your children. That doesn't translate to respect.

You told her you would prefer she didn't sleep with OM. She felt comfortable pursuing the intimate relationship, despite your feelings, because she knew you weren't going to stop her. As for stopping the affair (which is up for debate since she's still in contact with OM) she didn't do so because of how profoundly hurt you were but because she didn't want to be a single mother sharing custody with her kids. She begged you not to make her end it, vented her resentment toward you, and proceeded to break contact with OM even though you asked her not to.

So to be clear, when we're saying it doesn't seem like your wife respects you, we're saying that it doesn't seem like your wife values you as a person beyond your usefulness to her and doesn't cares about your feelings, except insofar as they advance or impede her personal desires.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 3:11 PM, Thursday, April 27th]

Hellfire you have a PM.