SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi wonderful supportive SI family,

I haven't been around much lately. The weight of this divorce has been crushing, and it helps not to talk about it any more than I must. I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, and the weight has begun to lift, so I thought now would be a good time to update.

As I've mentioned in other posts, a significant court chapter closed a couple of months ago. I did not prevail. It was a tough blow, and takes away some financial security, but it didn't completely destroy me. I've processed it and I'm ready to move on. The past few days, STBX and I have made significant progress divvying up the rest of our assets. I've given up a lot, and (in his eyes anyway, if not legally) he has as well. The one thing I will not bend on is child support. I need it. He owes it. There is no getting around it, legally, in my state. Our incomes are put into a calculator, and it spits out a number. That's what it is. Period. (I did allow him to underreport his income, in the interest of getting this done quicker. It doesn't make a huge difference in my monthly support, so I let it slide. It's not worth fighting over for 6 more months. His new attorney (his third!) appears to be a gentleman who wants a quick resolution. He also seems to have a knack for getting STBX to live in reality (nearly impossible for a narc BPD). He has already indicated that STBX is a very difficult personality. He asked us for a CS number so he can "sell it" to STBX, and we gave it to him. This was yesterday. My lawyer and I are waiting to hear back. There are a few other things STBX wants to fight over. We have indicated that if he does, we will take back the significant concessions I have given him, things I will likely win in court, and I will turn and demand similar things from him (I have my list).

I'm praying, I'm hopeful, I'm ready for this to be settled. Trial date is set a few months from now. It would be wonderful if we didn't need it.

Send all your positive prayers, thoughts, energy my way please.

In the midst of all this, I have continued to live my life as best I can. I took myself, over (American) Thanksgiving, to another international city I had never been to (My kids were with STBX for the week). For a week, I roamed the streets and museums and cafes. I even met a man at the airport. We were on the same flight to his city, and we ended up having dinner my last night there (We kissed! Apparently I'm not dead inside, haha, but still single by choice) We have kept in touch and will video chat this weekend. It's a nice little distraction, and we never know what our futures hold, right?

My oldest daughter will soon be 14, and she has indicated for the past 2 years that she no longer wants to go to her dad's house (she is bright and intelligent and mature, and sees him for who he is). She wants to live primarily with me, minimal visitation with Dad. Recently, she told me she is ready to testify in court if she has to. That's what my IC and I have been waiting for. It has to come 100% from her. I'm not sure how that will part will play out, but I'm hoping to get the assets/support settled first, and an agreement signed. I know that blindsiding him with court papers will appear confrontational, to him anyway. I'm thinking I will find a way to gently broach the subject... any advice on that from you good people is welcomed. This is new territory for me.

Thanks for reading. I'll try to update as things progress.

Thanks for the update, and wish things had all gone your way. Sending mojo your way.

Your trip sounds like you had a great time. Good luck with your new interest.

Hi
You sound amazing
Strong and inspiring
Wow
Gives me hope (currently down and feeling like I can never get over this) but what you have written is really positive

Thank you

I’m glad things are moving along. One day it will be over, your kids will be 18 and you won’t have to deal with the Ex much.

Whothebleep, thanks for the update. Of course sorry your still in negotiations and wishing for myself I was farther into my D process, I will vicariously through you when yours is over!

So glad to hear about your DD and her strength, she sounds incredible like her mother.

I am so excited to here about your new distraction, you deserve the world.

Bleep - so sorry that things didnt go your way, but so happy to see you accepting that, dusting off, and taking your fabulous self on an international adventure. ( A good trip or a long night out dancing cure so many things for me).

Sending you positive mojo for an expedient and fair end to this ordeal. You know that pic of Nicole Kidman when her divorce from Tom Cruise is final? That’s what I want to picture for you, and soon!

Lea, thank you.

One day it will be over, your kids will be 18 and you won’t have to deal with the Ex much.

The1stWife, this seems a million miles away, and I don't want to wish my life away, but it is noted. Thanks 😊

You sound amazing

Strong and inspiring

Wow

Really, Jammy? I feel like a robot. Just dead inside most of the time. Riddled with anxiety and depression. Two things I hope fade away to the distant past once I am divorced. I am hopeful. I think that's why I've been booking all of these little adventures. It's a way to run away from my life and pretend to be someone else for a week; someone wandering freely without a care in the world. It works for that week, and then I come home and the weight pushes down on me again. I guess life goes on. I'm sorry you're having a tough time. We all just need to get through this don't we.

CT101, thank you for your support in the midst of your own shit show. I've read your updates, but I can't formulate a helpful response. Just know that I support you and please stay safe, lady.

You know that pic of Nicole Kidman when her divorce from Tom Cruise is final? That’s what I want to picture for you, and soon!

(Bleep runs to Google the photo ) Thank you, Bearly.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 1:10 AM, Saturday, December 10th]

Yes you do sound strong
"I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, and the weight has begun to lift, "

Thanks Jammy. I'm up and down for sure.

It's been a week and we have not heard anything. My attorney says if they do not respond, we prepare for trial. Again. This mother****er. I have never come across such an awful human being in my entire life. He's an oxygen thief. To not want to ensure his kids have what they need when they are at my house, when my income is half what his is. My house needs major repairs and I have zero funds to pay for it. I'll never be able to send my kids to college, and I am not counting on him in any way to contribute. It will just be another control tactic for him. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. STBX has always put STBX first. Always. Complete disregard for anyone but himself.

How do these s**tbags live with themselves?

Do any of you want to just quit? Just give in and give them what they want cut your losses and go? I can't do it. I can't give in. But the crushing weight of this... I feel like my chest is being squeezed everyday, like I can't breathe. I'll fight him and our moron judge will find a way to side with him again. She doesn't fucking care. I have zero faith in the family court system. It's a joke and a kangaroo court at best.

This is all about child support. This is the only thing we are disagreeing on. He refuses to pay. He doesn't care that I'm not making ends meet. 5 more months of waiting. Thousands more in legal fees...I hate him. I hate him. I hate him.

And somehow this shit bag landed himself a wonderful girlfriend. They've been together almost 3 years. And me, and my gut, know that I will never trust a man again. I'll never open my heart.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 1:59 PM, Thursday, December 15th]

They are awful people

I’m just at the start of divorce proceedings so not quite where you are yet
But he also had a girlfriend - they put on an act (same act that reeled us in?!)

It’s pure selfishness
The infidelity
Refusing to pay

Selfish individuals

Thank you so much for the update. I understand needing to not talk about this stuff... I'm not on this site much any more either. Honestly, I check in every week or two to see if you (and a few others) have posted an update.

It's been a week and we have not heard anything. My attorney says if they do not respond, we prepare for trial. Again. This mother****er. I have never come across such an awful human being in my entire life.

In my experience, the silence is a control tactic. As in, if he doesn't provide an answer, then you have to sit there and wait and wonder what he is going to decide. I've learned to make all requests of the following nature: (a) you can do XXX or YYY, or (b) if I don't hear from you by this date/time, then I am going to with my preference, which is ZZZ.

How do these s**tbags live with themselves?

A really good question that I wonder about a lot.

Do any of you want to just quit? Just give in and give them what they want cut your losses and go? I can't do it. I can't give in. But the crushing weight of this... I feel like my chest is being squeezed everyday, like I can't breathe.

Sounds very familiar. You ever read the Lord of the Rings? (not the movie... they cut this part out of the movie) To me, the entire point of that story is how to deal with an impossible task. You take your journey and sometimes it feels hopeless... and sometimes, you find help when its least expected.

I'll fight him and our moron judge will find a way to side with him again. She doesn't fucking care. I have zero faith in the family court system. It's a joke and a kangaroo court at best.

Yep. Family court is a joke. Everyone makes crazy-ass allegations and everyone lies and the judge (if s/he cares at all) has to sort it all out and make decisions.

This is all about child support. This is the only thing we are disagreeing on. He refuses to pay. He doesn't care that I'm not making ends meet. 5 more months of waiting. Thousands more in legal fees...I hate him. I hate him. I hate him.

He shouldn't care if you can't make ends meet. Just like he's not your monkey, not your circus.... you are not his monkey, not his circus. He should care that his children are cared for, though.

And somehow this shit bag landed himself a wonderful girlfriend. They've been together almost 3 years. And me, and my gut, know that I will never trust a man again. I'll never open my heart.

Don't be so jaded. It just takes a really long time to heal. I'm six years out from D-day. I'd like to think that I am totally healed from her affair but honestly... I'm not healed from the relationship abuse. As in, I am still noticeably better today than I was two months ago. Give yourself time and space. And when (or if) you are ready, just watch out for the same red flags that you missed before.

Also, sorry for the thread jack, but I often wonder what the "new supply" thinks about the stuff that they are doing to their ex-spouse? I mean, is his new woman excited about a guy who refuses to pay child support? I mean, WTF? My xWW's boyfriend has to know that she cheated on me; does he think that she'll never cheat on him? I dunno. It's just weird.

Anyway, WTB... just keep on fighting the good fight. It sounds like he got a legitimate attorney so just think about what is reasonable for you to settle and if not... go to court. He's going to have to pay child support and he's going to look like a fool in court if he tries to get out of that.

Hey Barcher, thanks for chiming in. And thank you for the suggestion on communication. I like that method. I'll use it.

I have not read Lord of the Rings, and you are not the first person to suggest I read it. I'm adding it to my list right now!

As as far as his new supply, not a threadjack at all. I've had these same thoughts. There's no way he is keeping the child support thing to himself. He must complain to her about it. I can't imagine what a turn off that must be. Eeeww.

And I think you are correct Barcher, I just need some distance. The cheating, which was just a symptom of his deep deep issues, I am recovered from that. The psychological and emotional abuse and manipulation... That I have barely begun to unpack. One of the reasons I am single by choice is that I have not worked on what caused me to move my boundaries over and over again, to accommodate him. I am sure I will just do it again with the next guy. Once I am divorced, and can breathe and focus on me more, I'm going to work on that in IC. I know there are good men out there. I don't want to paint them all with the same jaded brush.

In my last post, I was in a spiral. I had gone down the rabbit hole and saw no way out. We have heard back from his attorney since then, and apparently STBX's accountant is going over his finances and will respond with a child support offer soon. We fully expect it to be much lower than the already low number I gave him. There really isn't room to wiggle from that, so hopefully his lawyer can make him see that.

On a fun note, a boy I dated when I was 15 (I'm closer to 50 than 40 right now; we've been distant social media friends for a couple of years) has gotten flirty recently. I've been friendly but not overly so. He lives two and a half hours away, which is good for me right now. Not too close 😂.

Anywhoo, another mild distraction in the midst of this crap. Again, we never know where life will take us. Thanks for listening.

I have not read Lord of the Rings, and you are not the first person to suggest I read it. I'm adding it to my list right now!

I hope that you like science fiction/fantasy... because these books are LONG. I used to read them every year for Christmas. Maybe I should read them again myself.

As as far as his new supply, not a threadjack at all. I've had these same thoughts. There's no way he is keeping the child support thing to himself. He must complain to her about it. I can't imagine what a turn off that must be. Eeeww.

Is she divorced? I wonder if they bond over their awful ex-spouses. I'm pretty sure my xWW does.

And I think you are correct Barcher, I just need some distance. The cheating, which was just a symptom of his deep deep issues, I am recovered from that. The psychological and emotional abuse and manipulation... That I have barely begun to unpack.

Also look at your life prior to meeting him. I was basically raised by my mother to find a woman to abuse me. We're all different, but most of us use our parents as a model for romantic relationships... so the bad stuff can start super early.

I know there are good men out there. I don't want to paint them all with the same jaded brush.

Related to my above post, in hindsight... I dated many really good women. They mostly bored me for reasons that I couldn't identify at the time. In hindsight, they weren't abusive towards me. They tried to take care of me because they were co-dependent (just like me!). I don't trust people easily, especially when they treat me with kindness (thanks mom!), so that was a major relationship hiccup. And, yes, I now see this as really bad decisions by me.

I was literally thinking about this last night in bed. My new partner doesn't want anything from me except for love, affection, and kindness and she's willing to give me the same in return. This will sound ridiculous, but it has been and continues to be a serious struggle to accept her love and kindness because I'm not used to that. My uneducated guess is that you will have a similar problem after the abuse that has been inflicted upon you.

On a fun note, a boy I dated when I was 15 (I'm closer to 50 than 40 right now; we've been distant social media friends for a couple of years) has gotten flirty recently. I've been friendly but not overly so. He lives two and a half hours away, which is good for me right now. Not too close 😂.

Go out and have some fun! I am sure that you could use some of that! Just protect your heart along the way.

Just a quick update. STBX and I are still playing ball. He filed a new financial affidavit, which my accountant is looking over. He underreported his income even more than I initially anticipated, and we are going to draw a hard line with that. The CS number he came back with is about half what I am requesting (which was already less than I am entitled to). We should give them a response refusing his number and stating the reasons why, backed up by law, in the next couple of days.

Fingers crossed for you. I can't imagine the constant unsteadiness you are experiencing. Thinking of you.

Can't you subpoena his bank records or job to get accurate information regarding his true pay? No WAY should you allow him to skate on his obligation regarding child support! I'd also include that he furnish records every year on his pay to insure he's paying what he legally should! Talk to your lawyer about including this!

Thanks, ntf. The constant unsteadiness... I have forgotten what it feels like not to have that part of my life. Looking forward to when it lifts!

Ark, we are trying to avoid requesting more discovery. We are treading very lightly. We already have the information we need that proves he is lying. I asked my attorney how his attorney could ethically give us the number he did, when he knows the law. We believe they are just hoping we don't connect the dots. I'm not even an attorney and I connected the dots right away. It's tedious and tiring, but we are very close to an agreement and I remain hopeful.

[This message edited by WhoTheBleep at 5:04 PM, Friday, January 6th]

I can't imagine the constant unsteadiness you are experiencing. Thinking of you.

I can imagine (I lived it) and it's awful. I'm pulling for you too, WTB!!!

I asked my attorney how his attorney could ethically give us the number he did, when he knows the law. We believe they are just hoping we don't connect the dots. I'm not even an attorney and I connected the dots right away.

I am no lawyer but I have now been involved in both a nasty divorce and a second legal disagreement (that has yet to involve the courts) but lawyers don't have to fact-check their clients or even be fair/honest. They are required to aggressively represent their clients. A friend who is a lawyer literally told us that "the job of opposing counsel is to gaslight you."

A very simple example of this happened at my final mediation session. We were negotiating over child support given that my ex's salary had doubled (literally) since our divorce. My salary was actually less than the judge ruled at trial, so our position was that we should just use the judge's number (i.e., I really wanted to settle). Opposing counsel, however, tried to claim that my salary had actually increased by $10,000 over what the judge had ruled. I have no idea where they got such a crazy idea, but it was easily solvable by showing the mediator my W2 for the prior year.

My point being... there isn't a lot of oversight on lawyers and you should not listen to opposing counsel, at all.

It's tedious and tiring, but we are very close to an agreement and I remain hopeful.

I'm hopeful too. You deserve to get away from that POS.

I am no lawyer but I have now been involved in both a nasty divorce and a second legal disagreement (that has yet to involve the courts) but lawyers don't have to fact-check their clients or even be fair/honest.

________________________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________

Whoa As an attorney I 'always' check all the facts. I go above and beyond what clients tell me. I value ethics and my bar license. I understand there are some attorneys without scruples just as there are bankers, doctors, etc - but not all of us. I advocate for clients but I like to think I am always fair and honest. I have turned away clients and cases when I felt the clients were lying to me.

I am no lawyer but I have now been involved in both a nasty divorce and a second legal disagreement (that has yet to involve the courts) but lawyers don't have to fact-check their clients or even be fair/honest. They are required to aggressively represent their clients. A friend who is a lawyer literally told us that "the job of opposing counsel is to gaslight you."

I am a lawyer (not a family lawyer - not that it matters) and I am always disgusted to hear other lawyers excuse this stuff. The job of opposing counsel is NOT to gaslight you and lawyers do have a duty to "make a reasonable inquiry to determine that there is evidence supporting their factual allegations" under Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure or a state equivalent, and Canon 3.3 of the rules of ethics. I wish people who were aware of actual violations of these rules filed bar complaints.

An attorney's job IS to aggressively represent their clients (that is what people pay for/expect after all) while being cognizant of the rules under which they operate. I'm my experience most counsel do just that - and lawyers know the attorneys who don't operate within the rules - their reputations precede them. When I first started practicing I had a boss that told me the rules of civil procedure were "tools of manipulation, not rules" - as I found out later he was known in our legal community for being unethical. When you had a case against him you had to be ultra pro-active about getting the facts straight.

What making a reasonable inquiry is on the other hand....

Honestly I can tell you that most attorneys take what their clients give them - some dig more than others. I used to handle financially complicated cases and as counsel I was not a forensic accountant so if the numbers my client gave me matched some ascertainable amount, for purposes of answering discovery requests, I would follow my client's lead. For settlement negotiations and definitely for trial prep I would normally hire a accountant as the numbers and understanding how they are calculated frankly isn't my specialty at all.