SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone, and I hope you all are having a wonderful workweek and a lovely afternoon. It has gotten a lot colder in my area after having had such warm, sunny weather last week. I am writing because I know a lot of you have given me advice and feedback before, which I appreciate, I really do. I really do feel like I have no place else to turn to really vent or let my feelings out. I thought I had that with a former teacher friend I used to work with, but it seems that recently she hasn't been around either. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

It started when we were having a conversation by text early one morning before work. It was a continuation of a conversation we'd had by both phone and then by text the night before. We were discussing how both of us despise Mr. Trout, the mean science teacher who sabotaged me at the previous school I worked. Mr. Trout was a bit of a bully. My friend RA worked with him too and he seemed to treat her better than he treated most of us there, and especially better than he ever treated me. He was a very chatty, talkative guy and always trying to rope colleagues into long conversations with him after school in the hallways, the parking lot, etc any chance he could. While most of our colleagues would try to avoid conversation with him because we were unhappy with him for talking behind our backs and his other usual backstabbing tactics, RA was friendlier to him than most because she hadn't encountered any bad from him (yet) to her knowledge. Unfortunately, even RA was not immune to Mr. Trout's backstabbing trash talk. About midway through the school year, she was out of work for a few days due to being sick. One of those days was a staff PD day, just staff no students, which left extra time for chat among colleagues. Mr. Trout started questioning why RA wasn't there, then brought up all this stuff out of nowhere, about how he thought she might be a lesbian because she always talked about having a female roommate at her house, and how he had Googled her maiden name and found lots of absurd stuff posted about her online, presumably from a bad-pick former boyfriend or guy friend. He claimed there were pictures of her online, pictures that are rather embarrassing and not stuff a teacher would want to have out there, that the same nutty guy had posted without her permission. He told us this more from a place of entertainment and amusement than from a place of concern. It almost seemed like he was trying to throw her under a bus on the one PD day that she wasn't there in presence. He kept trying to get us to look her up online or look at the pictures on his phone that some crazy ex-boyfriend had posted of her. Nobody cared to look because all we cared about was that RA was a dedicated teacher and easy to get along with at work. Finally, one of the teachers Mr. Griffin told Mr. Trout off. I didn't mention any of this to her until almost three years later, and even then I mentioned it very vaguely and simply because I felt really awkward and uncomfortable with divulging something so awkward and potentially mortifying. Let's just say she was very unhappy and angry. She didn't say much, but she did tell me that this news had ruined her day and that she was no longer going to be nice to Mr. Trout from now on. I think she even tried to write a bad teacher review about him on a teacher review website where some people had written unpleasant reviews about me (to this day she swears that the one coherently written review was Mr. Trout pretending to be a student, especially since the review about me tooted Mr. Trout's horn and used wording Mr. Trout is the type to use).

Anyway, the topic of Mr. Trout came up in conversation last night and all the backstabbing, unfair things he had done to everyone. We talked about how he always played Principal's Pet and would then gossip about people to the principal after school, but then would weirdly badmouth the principal to us and talk about how our school needed a different principal. We talked about how even after they had a falling-out, somehow he still went back to being Principal's Pet eventually. We talked about RA's speculation and fear that maybe the real reason she got force transferred from our school was because Mr. Trout had told the principal about all that unflattering, mortifying stuff that crazy guy or ex-boyfriend had posted of her a few years earlier. She mentioned that nowadays it would be illegal to post pics like that without someone's permission, and she wondered if the same applied to passing around pics like that at a workplace? I guess she thought about it overnight and woke up with a vengeance to go after Mr. Trout. She texted me early the next morning, telling me that given the content of what that nutty guy had posted about her and the way Mr. Trout was so fixated on it, that what he had done by trying to pass those pics around at work could constitute a form of sexual harassment behind her back. (not to mention the huge age difference between them too) I responded that yes, what he did to her was sexual harassment.

She then texted, "Yes and I'm making a report to the union on it." then "You all have been warned." and then "So they might call you or Griffin or [Principal] in to testify. [for a disciplinary hearing on an employee's misconduct] Eh probably not. Knowing the district's crappy union, they'll probably just discard my report like used trash since I don't work for the district anymore."

I was stunned, frozen. She was throwing all of this on me, when I already have so much on my plate I'm dealing with, not to mention trying desperately and frantically to improve my job situation and build better rapport with my new workplace, expecting me to just accept it? The only thing I seem to be doing right at my new job is keeping my attendance in good standing, perfect standing in fact. I can't lose the one thing I'm actually doing right at my job. Plus, if I testify, I'll look like a snitch.
Word will get around that I'm a snitch and that I try to get other teachers in trouble, and that could further jeopardize my job too. My heart started racing. This happened almost 4 years ago, and she's known about it for almost a year, and she's suddenly springing on her desire to have a trial on him now, involving me?? When I have so much other stuff to worry about right now?!

I texted back: "What?? Now I'm going to have to take a personal day off to testify?!? Now everyone at [my school's name] is going to know my business!" and then "What did you do?"

RA: "I never f--king called the union yet"

RA: "Chill out. All u care about is chance of using a personal day?? You're as bad as the mom who didn't call 9-1-1 for her kid because she was too low on phone minutes."
(The 911 thing is in reference to some kooky article she found online recently from several years back, about some idiot mom whose kid died because the mom was too afraid to use up her limited cell phone minutes to call 911, with the mom now facing criminal neglect charges. She had shared the article with me while coining the mom Idiot of the Day)

RA: "If u had to testify, it'd be a 1% chance of ever happening. And it would definitely be coded as an approved business leave, where you don't even need to use one of your stored personal days. The same way I had it when I got subpoenaed by the union to testify about the test cheating scandal I witnessed at that one school I used to work at. Basically it'd be a free day off, doesn't count against u or your personal day count. And just like how 911 doesn't use up any cell phone minutes. But your reaction shows your true colors."

Me: "Don't compare me to someone that doesn't want to use their cell phone minutes."

Me: "I postponed jury duty til the summer so I wouldn't have to go thru the hassle of taking a day off, getting emergency lesson plans together, etc."

RA: "You're using your summer off for jury duty? You sacrifice everything for this thankless job. Well, it's your choice how you want to waste your time."

Me: "So if I'm forced to testify against him, my administration here would find out why I had to testify and then they'll think that I'm too much trouble"

RA: "NO! They aren't even allowed to discuss matters like that with outside people. That's like discussing patient medical records or a jury talking about what's going on in an ongoing trial. Sheesh. I'm not going to back down from reporting Trout just because you want to be a pushover to your biggest workplace bully."

RA: "Well I'm sick right now and going through a huge ordeal with my dr office which is making me stressed and feeling sicker. I can't deal with this BS from you anymore."

Me: "What does that mean?"

Me: "And I'm sorry you are feeling sick."

RA: "Now I see why no guy in your life sticks around. Your priorities are all whack. And to think I thought you'd care to help a friend while at the same time getting justice for your bully."

Me: "That hurt, what you just said."

Me: "Likewise I thought you'd understand my situation and what I'm going through right now."

RA: "All those guys who just disappeared, maybe they had the right idea"

Me: "What does this mean, you're going to disappear too? After I've already been through so much this year? Great, I guess I'd have to add you to my long list of losses."

RA: "It is what it is."

She never texted anything after that. I didn't respond because I admit I was already feeling aggravated, plus I had to get ready for work, for the job that I must still report to even if I do not like it, because right now attendance and punctuality is the only saving grace I have left. Everything else in my job and elsewhere is falling apart. I need to get something done right! When my workday ended, I looked at my phone but she still hadn't texted back. Sometimes she'll leave long, like paragraph-long or more, messages for me to read during the day about things she found or afterthoughts she had about our conversation topics. This time she didn't. This happened almost two weeks ago by now and still I haven't heard back from her. I'll admit I didn't reach out to her at first because I was angry and also genuinely scared how something like this could affect my job if she did call the union on Mr. Trout and the union decided to take her seriously and escalate it to a disciplinary hearing on him. I also feel like she just doesn't get it, doesn't understand or know nearly the stress I have to deal with at this job, now that she's out of teaching and working a conventional office admin 9-5. I needed some distance and some time to cool off. I did try reaching out to her about a week ago but never heard back, unusual for her. It seems she's still on social media daily, updating posts, so nothing bad happened to her.

I guess she decided we aren't friends anymore. It sucks because she was literally the only close friend I had. This year has been nothing but losses for me, no gains, no positives. I am really hoping 2023 is a lot better. I am so tired of feeling so alone with everything.

You're right. She was a true friend. You were not a friend to her. She was right to walk away.

Seriously? This ass was super creepy looking, her up online,and wanting everyone to look at her inappropriate pics THAT HE SAVED ON HIS PHONE!! A true friend would have immediately told her about this. You didn't. It happened years ago,and you said nothing.

Now she wants to sue him for sexual harassment, and you only think about how it will affect you. A snitch? Lord,no. You would look like a woman telling the truth, and siding against a man who did something terrible to your friend. You would stand with her,against a bully,and a creep. You might have to take a day off to help a friend?

She was a great friend to you. You were perfectly fine, continuing to have sex with another woman's husband..and she made him stay away. She stood up for you. THATS A TRUE FRIEND.

You failed her.

Some of the things she said to you in anger, deserve your examination.

You desperately need therapy.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:00 PM, Wednesday, November 9th]

You can reach out to her and tell her you would be very willing to testify if called.

Because that is what a friend does. They put their own needs aside sometimes to help others.

What is the common denominator in all of your personal and professional failures?

If you see yourself as a victim and think of yourself as a victim, then a victim is all you will ever be. That's no way to live life. If you refuse to look for anything positive, then negativity is all you will find. Sounds kinda zen, but IME I can ALWAYS find something good - even in the shittiest situation. By CHOOSING to focus on the good, it makes the bad seem not so overwhelming to me. Maybe try that? Cus clearly what you have been doing isn't working for you.

I get that it sucks when shitty mr-trout-type-people do shitty things - feeling sucky about that is a totally normal way to feel. But this was FOUR years ago. Why on earth are you still allowing this to affect you this much?

And just saying but you haven't made this friendship a priority in your life for quite a while now that I can see - it's been a lot about all your woe-is-me and not a whole lot of consideration for her. If she's that important to you, then you might act like it and make sure to make time for her in your life. Friendships need nurturing in order to thrive. I know you're busy. I am too. Our department lost 4 people this year (in a department of only 6 people) and who do you think has been doing all that work? Me that's who. Even as busy as I am, I still make time to hang out with my friends and family because those are what's really important to me.

If you keep on doin what you always did, you'll keep on gettin what you always got. If you want different, you need to THINK different. And no amount of feedback here will change a thing for you if you refuse to change your thinking or your behaviors.

Am I the only one reading this and seeing that they're gossiping about someone else gossiping?

The triangulation and drama is making my head swim here.

Do I think you should have supported your friend who was legitimately harassed and had an HR case against this guy? Yes. That being said... I really think you need therapy to learn positive ways to relate to people because normal life should not take up this much emotional energy.

I get that it sucks when shitty mr-trout-type-people do shitty things - feeling sucky about that is a totally normal way to feel. But this was FOUR years ago. Why on earth are you still allowing this to affect you this much?

What do you mean by four years ago? In terms of me and my experiences with Mr. Trout? Actually, I worked with Mr. Trout up until this past June. That's only five months ago, not four years ago. My friend RA worked with us 3-4 years ago. It was just about 3 years ago that she got force transferred to another school in the district due to a process they call "leveling", when they try to fill teacher vacancies with teachers from schools that ended up having lower-than-expected student enrollment.

I think what you're referring to from 4 years ago is the time Mr. Trout told all of us that there was "interesting" content posted about RA online by what seemed to be an ex-boyfriend who was mad at her, or a guy of a similar type. Yes, it's been almost four years since that happened. I agree with you, that's a somewhat long time ago, which is why I did not understand why she was still getting upset about it and going off about it like she was. It's not like she has to face Mr. Trout or any of our other colleagues anymore. She got force transferred out of that school about half a year or so after he talked about those pictures online, and now doesn't work for the district at all anymore. It should have no effect on her life. She is married, has two beautiful little kids, and a new job that she claims to be happier at. Yes she's had her share of problems this year like major car troubles and marriage troubles but that has nothing to do with Mr. Trout or our old job. I don't know why she's picking now of all times to talk about wanting to get together a hearing with the union on something from almost four years ago.

You said you only "vaguely mentioned" it to her,3 years after he said it. So this isn't old news to her. In the last phone call, the two of you talked more about it, and she realized there was more than your vague description,from when you previously mentioned it to her.

Of course she is upset.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:01 AM, Thursday, November 10th]

You're right. She was a true friend. You were not a friend to her. She was right to walk away.

Well ouch. I actually feel very hurt by this. I do think I was a friend to her too. As much as I vented, I let her vent a lot too and I have listened to her telling me many, many stories about her life, her friends, and the tribulations her friends and others have gone through. When I couldn't make it to her baby shower, I mailed her a gift card to Buy Buy Baby. And I did go dancing with her that one time. I do think I was a good friend. Maybe I wasn't a perfect friend, but I did what I could with what I had at the time.

Seriously? This ass was super creepy looking, her up online,and wanting everyone to look at her inappropriate pics THAT HE SAVED ON HIS PHONE!! A true friend would have immediately told her about this. You didn't. It happened years ago,and you said nothing.

In truth, I don't think he actually had pics saved to his phone. When I was there, it was more of him telling us that we can find the content online if we look her up by her first name and what seems to be her maiden name, followed by the name of our city, using a simple Google search. He took out his phone once to try to show us how to look it up. He didn't have the pictures downloaded to his phone...I mean, maybe he does?? I've never actually gone through his phone. Hopefully not though. He is old enough to be her dad, literally. (he actually has a daughter about her age or slightly older who he was always saying she reminded him of)

Now she wants to sue him for sexual harassment, and you only think about how it will affect you. A snitch? Lord,no. You would look like a woman telling the truth, and siding against a man who did something terrible to your friend. You would stand with her,against a bully,and a creep. You might have to take a day off to help a friend?

I didn't say she was suing him. I said she was looking to make a complaint about him to his job's union, which is the school district union. If complaints get validated and progress, it leads to a hearing within the school district and union offices, where a panel of union members most likely hear out a complaint and any witnesses who were there can state what they saw. With union reps there to assist on each side. There's absolutely no money involved. No benefit to her. It would just get him written up or possibly fired, whatever discipline the district decides is fitting for him. I have never been a part of such a hearing nor have I ever attended one. I just know that it's the type of thing that would likely raise a red flag for me. They would then wonder why I am being subpoenaed down, and maybe think I was the one in some kind of trouble. Or if they found out, they might think I had volunteered to speak out against someone. I know you say it's right to speak up, but keep in mind that in my district, people have other people force transferred out for all kinds of catty, snaky reasons. I'm not trying to shake anything up, but stay low profile to avoid another toxic transfer. Look at what happened when Mr. Trout caused trouble for me at the last school. I lost my position there. Do I really want to shake him up more, and await whatever revenge or retaliation he might try to exact on me? I already know he is good friends with at least a few of my administrators, as that is now known fact. He wasn't lying or bluffing when he told me last summer that he knew a few of the administrators at my new school. Two of them definitely mentioned his name during the first week when I introduced myself and told them the school I transferred from.

I don't know why she's picking now of all times to talk about wanting to get together a hearing with the union on something from almost four years ago.

Because it's the right thing to do?

Because it's about time somebody stood up and blew the whistle on the REPEATED harassing behaviors of this Trout guy?

Because she wasn't ready to deal with it when you told her about the cell phone incident waaaay after the fact? But looks like she is ready now - after you told her WHOLE truth about that incident. To use an example following the same logic, adults who were sexually abused as children shouldn't speak out after they've matured - when they are more emotionally equipped and better prepared to do so. Maybe time away from the situation was needed for her to feel emotionally ready to act. She doesn't work for the district anymore so perhaps SHE is perfectly placed to be the one to file a complaint on this A hole. NOW rather than then. YOU aren't the one filing it. If the hearing does proceed you may be called to testify. Two separate roles. Maybe you can simply submit a written statement and then you won't have to take the day off! You and Mr. Griffin still work for the district so your voices do carry weight in this situation. Even if her complaint is treated routinely by the union, the act of simply filing the report might be the needed nudge to get Mr. Trout to examine and even start changing his ways. Certainly the #metoo movement is making inroads even in your "snaky" district? Your misplaced fear of being labeled a "snitch" enables people like Mr. Trout to continue harassing. You must see this.

Yet you didn't support her. You made it clear you didn't want to stand by her one little bit or do the right thing for her AND your fellow teachers that have the misfortune to still work with Mr. Trout. By refusing to call out or report Mr. Trout's heinous behavior during the original cell phone incident (Mr. Griffin was the ONLY one who stood up) everyone who didn't speak up was complicit. I bet part of her hurt is recognizing now that you didn't stick up for her then. Now's your chance to try and make things right by throwing your support behind her to go ahead and file. It's never too late to reach out to her to clear the air.

Teacherjoggergal, your fears about being labeled or outed if asked to make a statement seems to indicate you're not familiar with union rights/protections (and obligations!) and how those rights play out in the real world. Weren't you glad union protections were in place to assure reassignment when you were asked to vacate your old position? Unions are supposed to work to protect members. To reassure yourself about asserting your legal rights maybe it's time to attend a few union meetings at your school site and educate yourself? Might be a good way to get to know a few of your new co-workers as well!

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 9:36 PM, Friday, November 11th]

you were never her friend.

people confuse friendship with being an acquaintance, as you do.

Worse you are a witness to sexual harassment and reuse to testify.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 12:39 AM, Thursday, November 10th]

Where do we even begin to unpack all of this?

First off, months ago, someone advised you to go to the union about this man's behavior. Truly he was creating a hostile work environment, and he could be held accountable for that. Speculating on someone's sexual orientation and detailing things he found out about your friend online is horrible, and I would have told him flat out that this information had no place in a professional environment. The fact that you don't want to take a personal day (which is why they are issued to people) to defend your friend should she decide to file a grievance is just plain wrong. Stack on top of that you missing her baby shower and not socializing when she has invited you numerous times . . . well, I'd be rid of the friendship as well.

She was throwing all of this on me, when I already have so much on my plate I'm dealing with, not to mention trying desperately and frantically to improve my job situation and build better rapport with my new workplace, expecting me to just accept it?

So you expect her to bend to your needs when you don't lift a finger for her? Seriously? And so much of what is "on your plate" is self-created. Time and again, people have encouraged you to get help with your time management, to improve your computer skills so that you can leverage technology . . . all things that would help. Yet you've not done any of that. Why is that? And why do you expect people in your world to cater to your largely self-created issues?

The only thing I seem to be doing right at my new job is keeping my attendance in good standing, perfect standing in fact. I can't lose the one thing I'm actually doing right at my job.

One day, which is part of your compensation, to attend to personal matters (you do not have to divulge why you need the time--you do know that don't you?) is not going to make a difference. And showing up every day is not "doing right" and frankly, no one is going to care if you take a day. Why is this a fixation for you?

"So if I'm forced to testify against him, my administration here would find out why I had to testify and then they'll think that I'm too much trouble"

I would well imagine that such proceedings are kept private and confidential. Certainly people may find out through any grapevine that exists, but if this guy is such a horrible bully and did this to a person you consider a friend, why wouldn't you blow the whistle on him. Most people would see this as a good thing--you standing up against someone who is creating a hostile work environment and who is, at the very least, horribly unprofessional. At the most, it's creating a hostile work environment, which is against most employment practices. But perfect attendance is more important than a friend? Hmmm.

IC would be a tremendous help to you, but in all the time you've been on this site, it's been suggested ad infinitum and you've refused. I don't understand why you wouldn't avail yourself of a tool that could help you a lot.

But then again, maybe you don't want to change. That's your choice. But perhaps the pain of staying where you are will one day outweigh the pain of change.

Cat

"that's a somewhat long time ago, which is why I did not understand why she was still getting upset about it and going off about it like she was. It's not like she has to face Mr. Trout or any of our other colleagues anymore. She got force transferred out of that school about half a year or so after he talked about those pictures online, and now doesn't work for the district at all anymore. It should have no effect on her life."

You don't get to decide how this affects her or for how long. You are showing a lack of empathy for your friend and something traumatizing she is dealing with.

I was sexually harassed 30 years ago at work. There were people who saw and heard what happened yet nobody would stand up for me. That added to the pain and humiliation I was going through. It still upsets me if something triggers me. From what you stated, it shouldn't because I no longer work for that company and don't see that man.

Downloading pictures and encouraging other teachers to look at them is gross and creepy. I would not want that guy teaching my kid. I hope somebody does the right thing and helps her testify against him.

This should be in Off Topic as it has nothing to do with infidelity.

  Moving to Off Topic

You do realize there is more to friendship than allowing someone the opportunity to vent and or listen to your venting, right?

SMH ..... and what everyone else has said.

You do realize there is more to friendship than allowing someone the opportunity to vent and or listen to your venting, right?

It's interesting. In looking at your recent posts, you only come here to vent. Your posts are only in your own threads. Have you read anyone else's threads or posts? Have you thought about responding to others about their own situations? Or are you just looking for people to listen to you complain about your life? If anyone tries to offer suggestions, you can only respond with why it won't work and more complaints.

Maybe if you look beyond yourself, you might have more success in friendships and relationships.

I really hope you take the advice of reaching out for help.

[This message edited by SadieMae at 10:07 AM, November 14th, 2022 (Monday)]

Hello, I hope everyone is doing fine and has had a lovely Christmas holiday. I admit I felt hurt and figured people didn't want me to post anymore so I took a break from the forum. I felt like I couldn't seem to do anything right, here or in my personal life or at work. Winter break was much needed for me. It was okay, went way too quick and most of it was spent just trying to get caught up on paperwork for my job that I am still very much behind on. R stopped by and gave another grocery gift card, this one smaller than usual. Sigh. I should be grateful I got anything at all because it was literally the only present I got. My friend I wrote about called me after more than a month, so I called back right away but she never got back to me. Should I try calling again? Or should I wait for her? I don't want to annoy her in case she's busy with her young kids. But life hasn't been great on my end and I'm already counting down the days to summer. This is literally the worst, most stressful teaching job I've ever had in my 30+ years of teaching.

Don't know why I read this, but here goes:

TJG, you need help. YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP.

We care about you on this site, but frankly, your "venting" posts are exhausting as we haven't seen you choose to change. This site is about change and personal progress. Support in extremity with the expectation of getting out of crisis, healing and moving on with our lives. Since you've changed sides on the topic which shall not be named here, we have all been urging you to get the help you need and deserve to grow, heal and change.

Frankly, I think that's what's driven you from the site. Not our desire to see you stop posting, but our desire to SEE YOU CHOOSE TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. Until you do, you'll get the same results you've always seen. Disappointment, loneliness, frustration at work and general malaise in your life.

Einstein said something like, "Doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity." You, dear lady, are doing just that. Therefore, you are insane.