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Newest Member: Stark

Just Found Out :
Just a kiss... or 2?

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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 10:57 PM on Sunday, August 28th, 2022

New BS arrive here,every day. The "I suddenly realized what I was doing and it woke me up,so I stopped in the middle before he/she/I finished" is a VERY common statement from WS,in the beginning.

Sceptical BS have a polygraph done.

It had never,to my recollection, been true. It's a minimization of their actions.

posts: 4673   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8752735
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 PFB84 (original poster member #80715) posted at 11:08 PM on Sunday, August 28th, 2022

To supplement, her original confession was a written note that omitted the full extent. It didnt outright lie but it was purposely vague. When she gave it to me i did not press for details, I couldn't speak at all. I do think if i had asked for a full account she would have given it then.

However everything else has been face to face, and she's given some answers to tough questions that make herself look worse too, i dont get the minimizing vibe. Still pressing though. And i will pursue poly

posts: 57   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2022
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 11:27 PM on Sunday, August 28th, 2022

Consider asking for the extended version of the timeline in writing. Both the writing it, the permanency of the record (until you choose to bin it well into reconciliation), coupled with the face to face aspect, encourage reflection and contrition.

You are after several things. The truth so that you can own your response and next steps. Also, enduring behavior change from her to protect the relationship and restore trust and respect at some point.

[This message edited by straightup at 11:30 PM, Sunday, August 28th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 169   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8752739
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 11:39 PM on Sunday, August 28th, 2022

Insist on a complete WRITTEN timeline of the A,that way she can't change her story without contradicting herself (happens often) then have her read it out loud to you (typically helps with remorse), then ask all the questions you may have and tell her you will proceed with a polygraph, that she needs to be 100% honest and that the M hangs in the balance, polygraphs typically involve up to 4 or 5 questions, here are my suggestions, you may work with the poly administrator to fine tune them :

1) Did you have PIV sex with OM and if so how many times ?
2) Are you still lying and/or concealing info about the A ?
3) Have you ever had any other inappropriate relationship with anyone else since we became a couple and/or during our M? if so when ?
4) Did you have feelings for OM? and if so how strong were they?

Don't tell her when or where the polygraph will take place, pick a day that you know she will be free and when the time comes just tell her to get in the car.

posts: 2643   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8752740
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 1:58 AM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

It is possible and plausible that your WW did stop things mid-way. It’s also believable that she never intended this to go this far. But it did, and she did.
I think our doubts are based on our collective experience of minimizing and trickle truth. It’s the rule rather than the exception to get minimization in some form or other. I didn’t enjoy it, he didn’t get hard, we didn’t complete… These are all phrases we hear again and again, only to get more info later on.

But… it doesn’t really matter…

Frankly – whether OM finished or not isn’t the issue. If they had full sex, kissed, whatever… not the issue.
The issue is that you have doubts. That you are not convinced. To work on reconciliation, you need the facts to the level YOU need.
What happened is what happened, and you need a good sense that you know what happened. This will haunt you for years, and what you do not want to happen is that someday way into 2025 you look at your wife and wonder if OM finished or not. If he did – you want to know now. If he didn’t you want to know now. Not because of the act itself – but because you need to know what happened.

I think that’s the important message you need your wife to know and understand. If OM did X and Y and if your wife did Q and P is something you want to know NOW. Excuse me for being graphic, but if OM completed, or if it progressed from oral or whatever… the only relevance is that you need to know to move on.
I can promise you this: Learning something NOW – like that there was full sex – might destroy your will to reconcile, but learning about it six months from now will definitely wreck any reconciliation.


The OM GF? You don’t have to say too much. Let her know what you know, tell her that you think he’s a predator and probably is hitting on all his female clients and then ask her to leave you two alone.

The OM? He isn’t the issue if he’s out of the picture. I doubt the guys at the office have a count or are doing high-fives. In general people are decent and have morals. IMHO there is nothing more for you to gain to go after him. I doubt you have any claim to his employer and getting him fired might feel sweet, but won’t get you any profit.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10946   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8752757
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Unhinged ( member #47977) posted at 2:29 AM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

PFB84, I think it's entirely possible that alarm bells went off in your WW's head while doing what she was doing. I've been there and done that. A long time ago, years before I met my ex-wife, I was in the middle of a three-year relationship. My girlfriend had been out of town for a few days when I ran into an old flame who invited me over for dinner. As I had nothing else to do, I agreed. We made dinner, drank some wine, listened to music, reminisced a bit, and before I knew it, she was kissing me, and clothes started coming off. That's when alarm bells went off in my head. I don't think I've ever left a place as quickly as I left her place that night.

I never told my girlfriend about that incident. I never gave it much thought, either. At some point after discovering my XWW's infidelity, I wondered why and how I allowed myself to get into that situation with the old flame. I still don't have much of an answer beyond relishing in the ego-kibbles.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 2:32 AM, Monday, August 29th]

Married 2005
D-Day April, 2015
Divorced May, 2022

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button." -Brene Brown

posts: 6592   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8752764
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 11:40 AM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

PFB84. You can read dozens if not more identical threads from BHs like you. I know her better than anyone, I have all of the truth now, she’s very sad snd remorseful, and on snd on.

Also, I can assure you that 99.9 percent of these BHs didn’t even have a fraction of the truth at that point. You want to think that your WW is different, and that your relationship is different, but you would be very wrong on this count.

So again, you must get a full, complete, and detailed timeline immediately which is verified by a poly. The poly is key. Absolutely key!

posts: 509   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8752798
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 1:18 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

We are a skeptical crowd; her immediate confession supports the idea that she may have stopped halfway. Even though she minimized initially, she may have revealed the full truth after that. The poly process, whether completed or not, would likely work very well based on your description of her. Meaning, if she shows no signs of hesitation with a polygraph then she has probably told you the truth.

[This message edited by Trdd at 1:20 PM, Monday, August 29th]

posts: 650   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8752801
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Rocko ( new member #80436) posted at 3:03 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

PF,

Your circumstances mirror mine and your post has triggered me. Sorry that your Adulterous wife's actions have caused you so much pain. Just remember she planned this meetup. She took actions that ensured she would be alone when the POS stopped by for the check.

She most likely spent hours getting ready for the visit. Showering, shaving, picking out underwear, fixing her hair etc....

I bet her heart fluttered when the doorbell rang because she knew what was about to happen. She had numerous chances to turn away from this path but she continued on to satisfy her desires. This is why I do not believe she came to her senses mid-suck! It was full out BJ, FIV and PIV. After the POS collected the check and walked out the door, was when she felt any regret.

I would drag every stick of furniture out of that room to curb and post it on Craigslist. I would let the room set empty until you decide to R or D. If this painting work, change the room color. I eliminated everything that could possibly trigger me, including my Adulterous wife. Wishing you the best.

posts: 7   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2022   ·   location: Where It's Hot
id 8752814
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 4:17 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

THIS

posts: 509   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:47 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

if she shows no signs of hesitation with a polygraph then she has probably told you the truth.

Not even slightly true.

One..nearly all cheaters agree to a poly when it's brought up. If they say no,then it's rather obvious they're still lying. They agree because they don't think their BS will actually have them take a test.(ALWAYS have them take the test).

And..two..he has already said she's reading this site. There's a very high chance that she has found his thread, so she knows how to cover her tracks. She will read your comment,and agree,hoping he isn't serious about the test.(ALWAYS follow through with the test)

posts: 4673   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8752830
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Unhinged ( member #47977) posted at 5:18 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

We are a skeptical crowd...

We certainly are and there are very good reasons for it. Regardless of the circumstances, the vast majority of human beings will minimize the shit out of anything they've done wrong once they're busted. This is such a fundamental part of human nature that we, as a society, actually have professionals who dedicate their entire careers to "public relations."

Do you have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? The collective wisdom acquired by members would say that it's not likely, that there's something she's very, very reluctant to share, mostly because she doesn't want to admit it to herself. It's so typical it almost becomes an axiom.

Ultimately, yours is the only opinion that matters here. You're going to have to decide for yourself what you want to know and what you choose to believe and accept. Most betrayed spouses will tell you that you'll never have the whole story, that there will always be questions you can ask. At some point, however, most of us also reach a point at which we've heard enough and just don't have any more shits to give.

In terms of reconciliation, a WS showing a bit of contrition goes along way. Your WW's willingness to answer your questions, no matter how difficult they are or how often you ask them, will speak volumes about her commitment to reconciling. Does she minimize, blame-shift, deflect, gas-light, get defensive or otherwise attempt to avoid? Or does she answer your questions with scrupulous candor?

Married 2005
D-Day April, 2015
Divorced May, 2022

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button." -Brene Brown

posts: 6592   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8752832
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Kindern ( new member #78441) posted at 6:01 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

I’m no doctor but I think a poly could be off the table due to her MS. Depending on her symptoms it could be impossible to get a fair test done.

Any involuntary movement is going to be an issue. Separating out what is a reading due to a lie and what is due to MS might be difficult. Basically every symptom of MS is going to impact the validity of a poly.

posts: 46   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2021   ·   location: Uk
id 8752839
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 9:26 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

The insight into MS symptoms interfering may well be true.

OP said WW has a terrible poker face multiple times. Announcement of a poly in that case may produce a "tell" in and of itself.

Nowhere did OP say he told her about him using this site, unless I missed that?

posts: 650   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8752863
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lrpprl ( new member #80538) posted at 10:35 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

I don't have much to add except that I am hoping you get as much truth as possible. Hang in there.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8752871
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straightup ( member #78778) posted at 11:11 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

If there is no poly, the detailed written timeline is all the more important.

To expand on a previous post, when I use cross-referenced chronologies for work they are most useful when we are dealing with a discrete thing (like here). They are much less useful when dealing with a longer course of interpersonal conflict. In those later cases I select particular incidents to gauge credit. I liken it to a geologist taking a drill core sample and viewing the layers of sediment deposit, then I extrapolate the results to the broader subject.

[This message edited by straightup at 11:13 PM, Monday, August 29th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 169   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8752877
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 11:54 PM on Monday, August 29th, 2022

New to the thread.

Title is kiss or 2?

Current answer is she got fingered and blew him.

I highly recommend you question your ability to sniff out a lie and you wife's ability to lie. Critically examine how much you wanted it to just be a kiss and wandering hands. And now how much you want the current story to be the truth.

The whole truth is necessary. You can't forgive what you don't know.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2121   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8752883
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 PFB84 (original poster member #80715) posted at 4:59 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2022

The insight into MS symptoms interfering may well be true.

OP said WW has a terrible poker face multiple times. Announcement of a poly in that case may produce a "tell" in and of itself.

Nowhere did OP say he told her about him using this site, unless I missed that?

I did not tell her about the site, and I don't THINK she has read it but I do know she visited the site at a few points, to read some threads from the wayward side. We did not discuss it, I just saw it in her search history. I dont believe she has a membership or has come back to the site.

I have the written timeline. I had not considered her MS as an issue with the polygraph, but she also has POTS which gives her crazy issues with her heartrate so it's entirely possible it wouldn't be an option. It is still on the table. The timeline is detailed, supported by phone histories, messages, internet activity, ring doorbell, etc. She has told me things I never could have found out which do not paint her in a good light. She has answered every question without hesitation even if she knew I would not like the answer. I know people are just trying to help, and speaking from experience, history, and human nature. But the people just coming in to post "they definitely had PIV sex 50 times" are wrong. Bluntness is fine and again, I understand you guys know what you are talking about. But I am 100% NOT just looking for a reason to help her minimize and believe what I want to believe. I'm not accepting everything she says at face value because she's my wife and I trust her. There is no trust. I'm not pretending I really know the whole story, I'm not looking for reasons to forgive or downplay. I'm not saying she isn't lying, especially about the end of the encounter. This is just where we stand right now.

Thanks as always

posts: 57   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2022
id 8752968
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lrpprl ( new member #80538) posted at 5:22 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2022

My thinking is that whether the act between them was completed or not, the intent was there. She has proven herself to be a disloyal, unfaithful, and disrespectful wife.

Again, I really hope that things work out well for you and your health. Good luck.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
id 8752970
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:03 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2022

IDK ... I see some similarities with my experience that may or may not be there.

My W did not decide to confess after a sleepless night. After a sleepless night she did decide to end her A and stop lying, so when I asked a question that morning, she confessed.

The timeline is detailed, supported by phone histories, messages, internet activity, ring doorbell, etc. She has told me things I never could have found out which do not paint her in a good light.

My W never did a TL; we put one together ...um... together. But I took answering questions honestly as a sign that we could R, and showing herself in a bad light was a key indicator of honesty to me.

I interrogated my W day after day for months. I asked the same questions repeatedly. I sought essentially the same info with questions I posed from varying points of view in varying ways. I kept looking for inconsistencies and found none. Eventually (maybe 60-90 days) I decided I had the truth. I didn't have everything, because that's impossible, but I decided that my W was not hiding anything and that there were no deal killers hiding in unasked questions.

BTW, at about a year out, I thought I heard some major, deal-killing TT, but W pointed to the TL and showed me where it had been documented. The fact just struck me differently in 2012 than it did in 2011.

So I recommend that you keep asking questions, comparing answers, and tracking down inconsistencies.

I'm not implying that your W is lying; in fact, from what you say, she's come clean. As Bigger wrote, it's critical that you decide/realize you have the truth.

*****

The truth is critical to R, but before R, you have to heal. You have to process a good deal of the vast amount of anger, grief, fear, and shame that comes from being betrayed out of your body.

You can do that by looking inside and figuring out what you really want. You've got to feel the feelings and let them flow out of your body. Stuffing your feelings will hurt worse than feeling them now. A good IC can help.

*****

One exercise I found useful was to imagine a good life after D and after R and after temporizing, etc. IOW, I opened myself up to as many options as I could imagine. That allowed me to choose between good options rather than seeing myself having to choose the least bad option.

Don't stay if you want D. Don't stay unless you believe your W will do the work necessary for R.

My reco is not to think so much about D vs R right now. Instead, think about your healing first and your wants second.. Don't think so much about what she did to you - she has no excuse, and there's nothing good about cheating. Think about what you need to know. Think about what you'd require from her that would make you want R.

If your W is one of your wants, then observe her to see if she'll do the work necessary to R.

Being betrayed feels awful, and the feeling will last a lot longer than you think it should, but you can survive and thrive.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27624   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
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