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Newest Member: Stark

Just Found Out :
Just a kiss... or 2?

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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 4:06 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

The making out on Friday did progress to the point she started oral sex (her on him, but not vice versa). Then she allegedly stopped before it finished, had a breakdown and told him to leave.

As I note above, instant, heartfelt confessions are the exception here.

Trickle truth is not. Waywards generally instinctively try for damage control.

To that end, I'd suggest that affair sex is different from "regular" sex in that it tends to be more fervid because it is driven by emotional turmoil and anxiety, and it is conducted in secret, urgent circumstances. Sometimes boyfriends/girlfriends having sexual contact for the first time are timid, hesitant, stop/start. It's not as common for affair sex. If she was performing oral on a man not her husband, in her own home, it would be quite unusual for her to stop as she said. Not impossible, of course, but unusual.

The fact that she did this changes the emotional equation somewhat. It's one thing to feel low about one's self and respond in a reactive but receptive manner to his advances. In my mind it's another to take proactive steps to provide sexual pleasure to him. When she crosses that line, she is giving him something, not merely accepting his proffer. It shifts the fault line a lot. I wish you luck.

I echo the others above about warning you off of MC. It's not likely to be helpful, and it is highly likely to be hurtful. Most MC's fail to understand the trauma and sexual humiliation a BH feels. They push a false narrative of shared responsibility for the A, pressuring the BH to "accept his share of responsibility" for the fact that his wife gave another man a blowjob. It's a certain recipe for long-term resentment.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 4:09 PM, Thursday, August 25th]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3973   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8752063
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LIYA13 ( member #62026) posted at 5:33 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

Yep the story is almost always unfinished. I was really hoping since she confessed it wasnt more than just a kiss or 2.

Oral is stilll considered sex. The kiss wouldnt have been. Its a shame. Reading your first few paragraphs I felt really sympathetic towards her especially because she was being honest and wanted to talk. After hearing more to the story I would be worried as to whether there is more to it. I see it like this when youre in a house or room with 4 walls and you know theres no one to disturb then likely the urge and tempatation will get the better of you and in this case it did. I would definitely question whether they got naked and got in bed etc and whether he gave her oral. If he was the one that intitated it why would she be taking his pants down? Wouldnt it be him taking her panties to give her pleasure i.e. fingering or oral. Just a thought. Since shes started to fill in the blanks maybe there is more to it. I hope she realises what is at stake and comes out with complete truth. Maybe you need to tell her that you will ask to hear OM side of the story.

Its not easy hearing the truth but its got to be done!

posts: 177   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2017   ·   location: United Kingdom
id 8752081
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 5:46 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

I want to offer you some tactical advice…

I mentioned the importance of knowing the truth. I have seen couples work so hard at reconciling only for a miniscule but important fact to come to daylight months later wrecking everything. This is SO important. The news about the oral sex? Learning about it now is less damaging than learning that they held hands for ten minutes a couple of months from now.

When you tell her "I need the truth NOW and if I learn something new later on I am out of here" is counterproductive. Let’s say she forgot something that might be important. Like let’s say OM tried to phone her at a certain time but she replied with a text "busy". Not really relevant in the whole scheme of things, but when you ask for the whole truth that is part of it. Only it’s so miniscule or small she might have forgotten. Only to remember now – after being told any new secrets would end the marriage. What incentive does she have to tell?

You need the truth. That truth is something you might mull about for a couple of hours or days, and it might lead to a question that reveals a new truth. That new truth might not be relevant now, or skipped or missed.

Instead focus on the importance of the truth. You can tell your wife that you want to reconcile, but you really need to know what from. That for now there is a grace-period where you will appreciate the truth despite it’s hurt. You also let her know that realizing she’s holding back or lying erodes both your will and belief in reconciling. The ONLY way forward is truth.

At some point – maybe 2-3 weeks from now you can establish if there is anything more that you need to know.

I strongly suggest you both seek therapy.
Her illness places immense strain on both of you, and this infidelity doesn’t make things any easier. It’s a tough journey you two have ahead, with the MS possibly limiting your options and quality of life. It’s a heavy cross to bear and that alone would give you both reason for help.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10946   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8752084
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 7:06 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

Do not under any circumstances have sex of any kind with your WW.

If the OM was this quick to get your WW to perform a dangerous unprotected act, just think how many other women he has been with.

The danger from oral HVP is that you will get throat, mouth, tongue or penile cancer.

Demand from OM boss a refund for all work, stop payment, picket his office.

Find the OM and whatever....

Threaten a lawsuit say you are going to investigate if this is a pattern with his buisiness, post on social media.

Send the OM boss the bill for your therapy.

[This message edited by survrus at 7:09 PM, Thursday, August 25th]

posts: 1207   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8752105
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 8:03 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

I doubt there is much you can do about the company that was hired to do the work. It’s important to know the employee of the company did not force the wife to do anything.

It’s two consenting adults. So there is no legal recourse OP can take against the company.

Let’s not lose sight of this fact.

The wife had an affair or encounter. She lied about it initially (as do many cheaters) but she’s not said at any time it was not consensual.

Moving forward - OP is going to need help to deal with this dday2 type situation. That is the blow that hurts even more IMO.

Still stand by my advice. You wife needs some serious counseling. For a number of reasons. Also a support group for MS sufferers would be helpful.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12542   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8752121
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 9:25 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

I concur with no MC now. There is not a marriage problem - there is a WW problem. The marriage is totally fine.

With this new revelation it makes it more important that she write a complete timeline verified by a poly. Without this you will continually get trickle truthed - one thousand cuts.

Do you really think you have the complete truth at this point? Can you conceive in your mind that they had penetrative sex? Timeline snd poly!!!

posts: 509   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8752139
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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 9:26 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

(sigh) Another WS following the same script. Sadly in most cases trickle truth will cone out again.

I understand the spot you are in and I think IC would be a good thing for you.These are complex emotions and you have major decisions to make. The biggest mistake you can make right now is limit your options and/or refuse to change your mind.

Look your W likely has always had the broken parts on the inside that allowed her to bask in the ego kibble that this man was offfering. Her circumstances seem to remove the opportunity in a lot of cases. I think you and she need to think about that. FWIW AP might be a predator, it is not like it makes her actions more honorable. She made a choice she knew was wrong, but did it anyway. My point is that the seems to be a rare opportunity and she took it.

Your W needs to get at the root of what made these choices acceptable in IC. Only then does she have an opportunity to become a safe for R.

The thing is you need to think about what is best for you. IC is the best place to sort that out.

I hope I am wrong, but I've seen too many situations like your where there is more. It might be other affairs it might be the details were changed, etc.

Again, I really hope I am wrong, but more details, As, Online cyberstuff. .. is sadly the rule and not the exception.

Her words are meaningless right now only her actions can have some truth to them.

What has she offered to do to begin the journey of making amends?

Has she said ahe will do anything? It is textbook and yes usually another non-truth. Desperation can make people do and say things they later realize they did not mean. Don't be shocked WS lie about everything which is why IC for her is a must.

MC can happen later, but I second whoever said that now is not the time for MC. IC immediately MC can happen later.

I am sorry you are here, but glad you found us. Hopefully you can avoid mistakes that we all made by listening us. Mine was doing MC too early on. It set us back to 0.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5053   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8752141
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Kiwihubby ( new member #80713) posted at 9:31 PM on Thursday, August 25th, 2022

So sorry to read the next parts and disclosure.

This is has a lot of similarities to my experience so far.

Firstly I was told a kiss like you the very next day. Over time the story details changed making me wonder but i had no proof about a year later was told there had been a lot more happen that night.
Had no idea what to do and unfortunately didn’t at the time do the right thing. Believed her never got help worked thru it ourselves and actually kinda got on track after a while although would tear it’s head now and then. We actually had a good next four years.
Then the STD.
Told at the time there had been another night month back with same guy. Then a few nights.
Then taking to AP wife stories didn’t match.
Turns out had been going all that first year stopped for months after d day 1 the. Started back. There had been others all way along.
Over months I had many d days that second time. We are still together and working on things not easy path to go down.
Just need to say to you affairs and events like this make expert Liars after a few of them blowing up they all cover there own arse and run a mile throwing each other under the bus.
Things I should have done would have been to tell AP wife, seek proper help and support, pushed and pushed and pushed for the truth (it takes a long time ). If it makes no sense it’s probably a lie. Don’t accept blame for this no marriage is perfect but there is no excuse for this. Find the right counciling person took me three I never knew but this is very specific thing to deal with.
I really didn’t function for the first six months.
Good you have an outlet here wish I’d found something like this sooner.
Everybody has advice take it in and use what you can when you can or are ready to.
I still have things to sort that I’m nearly ready to but I think first you need to take care of you and work out what you want to do.
Thoughts are with you

posts: 10   ·   registered: Aug. 24th, 2022
id 8752142
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 4:57 AM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

We are looking for MC


Don't 'waste' your money and time on MC at this stage. It is way too early.

The rationale for this is that you do not have a 'normal' M at the moment. Your WS broke the M, and it cannot be healed until both you and your WS are healed enough to consider attending a MC.

MC will come at a later stage.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 1016   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8752206
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 6:50 AM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

Of course cheaters lie, TT and minimize, even after "voluntary confessions" like in your case, as others mentioned stop MC (typically a waste of time and money at this point) and insist on the written timeline follow by a polygraph, also demand she gets tested for STDs/STIs (unfortunately you should too), consult a D attorney to know your options.

posts: 2643   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8752209
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 9:05 AM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

MC isn’t a waste of time per se, but she didn’t cheat because your marriage is lacking. Therefore you wont "solve" why she cheated by trying to fix the marriage. Most of the time when people go to MC it’s to improve the marriage whereas you two MIGHT get some help in having an unbiased third party moderate your walk through discovery.

If you were to consider MC then the key would be to have a clear agenda: Walking through what happened is the agenda, and not some exercises in improving communications and rekindling romance or allocating blame for the affair.

Personally I would skip it. For now at least.
But I would seriously look into therapy for each of you. Your marriage probably has all the traumas (and highs) of a typical marriage PLUS the MS and the infidelity. That’s a lot, and maybe just sharing that with someone can help you alleviate pressure and find productive ways of coping.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10946   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8752213
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 1:27 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

The good news is she confessed. Pretty rare. That's what happened for me and it counted a lot in my deliberations to stay. I think confession shows remorse and that is essential for R.

The bad news is that she lied about the extent of it. And based on that lie, she may still be lying. It's just hard to believe that she stopped without finishing. Of course it is possible that's what happened but it seems unlikely. Your analysis seems sound about her setting up the conditions for the second meeting and if that was the case it doubles suspicions that she kicked him out mid-way. Lying about the extent of what happened is super common and she already did it once so... yeah.

If you want to R, it seems like your situation is probably well suited for trying. In that case, she needs an IC who is experienced with infidelity and helping people get to the root of the issue. Her health is likely a huge emotional factor but in my belief that is a trigger for other issues she has and those issues are what need to be discovered and dealt with. Of course if you choose D that doesn't matter.

I would have expected that your wife would have been worried about the marriage failing from the MS and done everything possible to avoid that. Many marriages do fail when MS is involved.

Please be very insistent she get tested for STDs. This posom is a player and chances are good he has one.

posts: 650   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8752229
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HarryD ( member #72423) posted at 3:54 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

Anyone that gets that far along in sex. Play finishes it. Don’t believe it stop in the middle. And that wasn’t the only time. Looks like it’s donesnt get much to get her going

posts: 114   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2019   ·   location: NY
id 8752331
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QuitePossible ( member #80726) posted at 8:15 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

Please absolutely consult an attorney and let her know about it. This will shock her into reality.

posts: 52   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2022   ·   location: East Coast
id 8752412
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 8:33 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

So sorry you are here. I will be blunt. A polygraph is a must. Also, see if you can find out from the employer the phone number of the OM in order to contact his girlfriend. This scumbag needs to pay. Whether you stay is up to you and only you. Go see a lawyer to assess your rights. If there are no children, reconciliation in my mind is less compelling. This truly sucks. No pun intended. It's unfortunate that she has MS. I find it especially destressing that while you are standing by her as she faces this illness, she decides to cheat. Wow, just wow in my mind.

posts: 681   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8752420
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DobleTraicion ( member #78414) posted at 8:55 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

I am so sorry you are facing this betrayal. All of the above posters have given excellent and expert input of what to do. I adjure you to follow their recommendations. All have learned the hard way that there are no short cuts. I paid dearly for that lesson.

On that note, my personal betrayal story stands as a warning of what NOT to do. Do not minimize or rug sweep anything. Sometimes the sheer pain of this triggers an overwhelming desire to avoid. To move past it as quickly as possible. To cover it up. This is especially true if you have had a history of trauma in your upbringing as I did that taught you to minimize as a learned coping mechanism. In the case of infidelity, this is one of the worse things you could do. It just takes the pain and stretches it out over time and then, when you least expect it, it erupts like a volcano (a recent trauma triggered a like incident in my life decades after my betrayal). This is really where my expertise lies...the devastation of rug sweeping, minimizing, white washing and trying to just get past it.

To that point, be detailed. Take strong action. Protect yourself and your well being. Take care of you. You need to be in the drivers seat and require the pro-active steps others have recommended, especially a time line followed by a polygraph as well as an std test. Truth is that your entire life's future happiness may well hinge in great measure on you being very very thorough right now. I did not and it cost me a decade of misery in what should have been one of the greatest times of my life and our marriage. When that decade was over it was followed by years of therapy to deal with the trauma and the baggage of my unhealthy coping habits. My therapist would always tell me to resist plugging my emotions in the outlet of my old coping habits (easy for her to say, hard to unlearn). I was robbed but I was also complicit in that robbery by not being strong and pro-active following my betrayal.

Deep breath a lot and blow out the stress a lot. It helps, I know.

Note: MC is a waste of time IMO and may well make things worse. SHE needs to be in IC asap.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 9:04 PM, Friday, August 26th]

"For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."

posts: 71   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2021   ·   location: South
id 8752431
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Dkt3 ( member #75072) posted at 9:30 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

Your wife appears to be trying to manage both her guilt and your reaction.

The fact that she confessed so quickly is a good sign, in my opinion. Gives you something to work with.

Its doubtful that they didn't carry on through completion. Which is likely when her guilt set in.

If you think of it logically, had she not did it all the second time its likely her guilt would have been enough to stop her after the first time, definitely after arranging the second met up. Also if they didn't have sexual intercourse I will almost guarantee she would have told her sister we didn't have sex. That would have been important for her especially as a former BS.

Its important to get everything now. Her delaying is only creating more damage and taking away your ability to trust her moving forward.

I'm guessing if you ask her to take a polygraph you will get a bit more. Something "I stopped it right after PIV"

Listen my man, its important that you are strong here, you have to try your best to avoid protecting her from her actions and allowing yourself to believe the unbelievable.

I think you have a really good shot and improving your marriage. You have to hold her accountable.

[This message edited by Dkt3 at 9:31 PM, Friday, August 26th]

posts: 111   ·   registered: Aug. 3rd, 2020
id 8752440
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 PFB84 (original poster member #80715) posted at 10:02 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

Thank you for the advice on delaying or skipping MC, noted. I wasn't looking at it as a way to fix our marriage which I agree does not need to be fixed, but more as a way to better communicate about what happened and figured the MC would be a facilitator (shows how little I know about this stuff)

Obviously the wound is still extremely fresh so the confusion is expected, but I have so much trouble knowing how to act around her. I hate when she enters a room sometimes, and hate twice as much when she leaves it. I am still in the shock phase and it's an enormous effort to eat like 500 calories a day, hydrate, keep up some form of appearances in front of the kids ,etc. I am making sure to talk about it every day, press for more info, remind her of exactly what she did to our family and what the ramifications could be, etc.

She is picking up the slack on the things I would usually be doing, crying twice as much as I am and so desperate to comfort me when she sees me struggling that its almost overwhelming. She has said repeatedly without me asking that she is willing to do anything to prove that I do have the whole truth, that there will never be contact again, and that it will never happen again. I'm not saying that I believe her, or am accepting that I have the full story, but this is where we are now. I have seen polygraphs mentioned many times, call me stupid and naive (I am both), but I dont think i'm going to take that route. I may feel different when the shock starts to fade though and appreciate the advice.

She is seeking a therapist and genuinely despises herself at the moment. As she should. She is begging me to give her another chance, not leave, etc to which so far I have told her it literally happened 1 week ago. 7 days. I am not ready to feed myself yet let alone make a big decision about the future. She doesn't get a reset button to take it back no matter how badly she wants it. I can tell there is nothing she wants more than to carry on our lives like they were going before. But I cannot and will not let that happen without a lot more work from her.

And if she's reading this, hi honey! It's been a great week, much appreciated.

posts: 57   ·   registered: Aug. 25th, 2022
id 8752450
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Dkt3 ( member #75072) posted at 10:22 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

The polygraph is fairly useless, however, the threat of it is very real.

When people cheat they tend to want to control information, a polygraph can take away that control. In order to combat that the WS will often offer up more information in an effort to avoid the polygraph.

You don't necessarily need her to actually take it, just ask her too and let it stand a few days. You will likely get a revised edition of events.

posts: 111   ·   registered: Aug. 3rd, 2020
id 8752456
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Murkywaters ( member #60252) posted at 11:23 PM on Friday, August 26th, 2022

I'm not saying that I believe her, or am accepting that I have the full story, but this is where we are now. I have seen polygraphs mentioned many times, call me stupid and naive (I am both), but I dont think i'm going to take that route. I may feel different when the shock starts to fade though and appreciate the advice.

I had my FWWW take a poly and she passed it, that was around 4 years ago. I think having her take the poly was the best thing I did in regards to the whole mess.

Like your wife, my wife, was "willing to do anything" to show me that I had the truth and I could trust her. As you probably surmised by now there really isn't any single positive action she can take to prove this, except for a poly.

The process of the polygraph was just as important as the results and kind of served as a penance for her as well. She had to find a place to take it and schedule it. Then she put them in contact with me so I could provide the questions and make sure they knew they were working for me, not her. I did this through email so I didn't have to talk to anyone about it. She had to go the place, get hooked up to a machine, have a total stranger question her about her infidelity, and wait for me to get the results. It was embarrassing and shameful. She did the whole thing without anger or dragging her feet. It showed me that she was at least partly serious about doing anything to help and it provided her with an actual action/task to do instead of just words.

Even if you aren't feeling them now, I imagine there will be a lot of doubts about your whole relationship going forward. Is this the only time she cheated? Did she have sex with this guy? Just once? For me it was - how many times did she have sex with this douche bag, are her kid's actually my kid's or someone else's, had she cheated any other times in our relationship. There are things that I still have doubts over, but those doubts I can put aside. Wondering if the poly examiner messed up on all three questions doesn't impact me like wondering if my wife has had multiple affairs and I'm just a dupe.

If I were you I want to know to the absolute best of my ability if she had sex with this guy or not, actually stopped in the middle of oral sex or not, and if this was the only cheating in your relationship. Because if you don't do everything you can to answer those questions you will be losing precious finite time for the rest of your life thinking about them, if you're anything like me. Looking back the polygraph was cheap at ten times what I paid for the process and peace of mind.

posts: 123   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2017   ·   location: US
id 8752469
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