landclark ( member #70659) posted at 4:51 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Once the trickle truth starts, any hope of being believed is out the window IMO. As others have said, your story isn’t really believable. Also even if sex didn’t happen, you went to the room knowing full well what could happen.
Agree that a polygraph where your BH sets the questions is likely the only way you’re coming back from this one.
Me: BW Him: WH (GuiltAndShame) Dday 05/19/19 TT through August
One child together, 3 stepchildrenTogether 13.5 years, married 12.5
First EA 4 months into marriage. Last ended 05/19/19. *ETA, contd an ea after dday for 2 yrs.
RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 5:13 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Unfortunately for you, the onus of proof that you did not sleep with your AP is on you (the WS), and never on the BS.
The problem with that (if your tale it true), is that you cannot prove a negative.... see the quandry you have placed yourself in?
Hopefully you have not deleted anything, and offer 100% access to your BH. This will still not sove your problem, but it can help earn a bit of trust back.
As to your reputation, well, it should be the last thing on your mind right now, as there are more pressing issues to attend to (if you want o stay in your M).
Also, keep in mind that you will have to try and earn a chance (it is not an entitlement) at R, and to not try and control the outcome of the M (be it R or D).
BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:30 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
One of the reasons your denial of sex sounds unbelievable (a part from the fact that you were in a hotel) is that OM told his wife he had sex with you. While I can see why a jilted OM might lie to your husband to spite and humiliate you, I can’t see him doing it at the expense of his own marriage and, potentially, his job.
Also, if you rejected his overture for sex at the hotel, there ought to be reams of text messages or emails between you debriefing about what went wrong and why, particularly if he was extremely frustrated and disappointed that he didn’t get in your pants. Could you share these communications with your husband as proof? If not, can you show that communication abruptly stopped? If everything between you and OM carried on like before, that is another red flag.
Unfortunately, a lot of waywards come to SI and repeatedly deny over the course of months that sex didn’t happen or they stopped the act in the middle of it before admitting— 25 pages later and usually after a failed polygraph— that they were lying the entire time. I strongly advise that if you’re lying or holding anything back, that you spill your guts completely now. Do not make him pry it out of you.
If you really didn’t have any sexual intercourse or any activity other than kissing and groping, then your only option (other than a polygraph) is to be completely transparent and answer all of his questions truthfully and consistently, over and over again. You will only have a hard time keeping your story straight if you’re lying.
[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:46 AM, Thursday, March 24th]
BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy
I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.
GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 6:01 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Of course he doesn't believe it.
I don't believe it. I think it's way more likely that you wrote this for his benefit hoping he sees it and believes you.
ramius ( member #44750) posted at 8:10 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Nope. There is no such thing as my truth, or your truth. The truth is what actually is. 2+2=4 is the truth. Feelings and interpretation do not factor in.
Your ability to appreciate or admit to the truth is another matter.
How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?
Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.
Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 8:11 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
First, I don't think you're anywhere close to Reconciliation at this stage. You may find that posting in the Wayward forum will get more responses from people who have actually been in your shoes.
My FWW blamed me just like you are blaming your BS. I stupidly accepted that blame because I wanted R, and only years later did I recognize that those behaviors that she blamed for causing her to cheat were actually from me being stressed and depressed that she was starting to push me away and seek attention from others.
Are you sure that your H wasn't an angry drunk because he saw the changes in you as you started to seek attention elsewhere? Or because you don't show him appreciation for all the hard work he puts in? Even if you think not, your dissatisfaction is a reason to seek counselling or a divorce. But instead you decided to cheat and you did it because of something inside of you.
As you know from your own experience with your X, cheaters lie all the time and about everything. They lie about the tiniest little details in hopes one extra tiny lie will smooth the rough edges enough to get them just one iota less in the way of consequences.
So your BH would be foolish to believe that your story is truthful and so would we. You're going right down the line with the usual behaviors of a cheater who just wants it to go away by blame-shifting and minimizing. We have to assume that there are lies in there as well. Particularly when your story seems improbable to begin with and your AP has told a different, more plausible, story. And it just so happens that the only part of the AP's story you're admitting to is the one part that your BS might just be able to prove.
One of the standard WW stories seems to be that they didn't want the sex, they were in it for the emotional part and it just kind of happened. They didn't think that just because they went to A it would lead to B, or that once they came back for more B they would end up at C. It just kind of happened.
But they know full well what they're doing and where it's headed. "We won't go there." is just a lie they tell themselves to allow them to get there. Yes, I understand it's a "slippery slope" but the "slippery slope" is more like one of those giant carnival slides and they're running full speed up the stairs to get up there and take that ride.
So the first step is to stop lying to yourself. You didn't go to that hotel room for the hugs and kisses. Adults don't go to a hotel room to make out like teenagers at a drive-in in the '50s. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that your version of the story happens to be extremely pathetic and emasculating for the OM. It's the kind of story you think your BS might want to believe.
I'm sorry, but your story is just not believable. As others have said, if your unbelievable story happens to be true, a polygraph is your only hope of convincing your BS. But lets be clear, you cheated on your husband. All you're hoping to do is convince him that your betrayal stopped short of penetration and that's not such a big deal (considering that he drove you to it).
My advice is to start from scratch. Write out a detailed, complete timeline of the affair. Don't lie, omit, minimize, shift blame, or make excuses. Own it all. Then take a polygraph.
Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled
jailedmind ( member #74958) posted at 10:02 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
I’m 8 years out. My FWW went to the hotel room twice as far as I know,I was told there was no sex just kissing. I found out about the affair and the car sex from my sleuthing. She could to this day take a polygraph and I would not believe it or her when she talks about not having sex in the hotel rooms but had sex in a car. Your husband now has to make some very shitty decisions that he neither asked for or wanted. He gets a divorce because this is a deal breaker for him. He reconciles with you but lives with doubt about your integrity the rest of his life or he reconciles with you and both of you do the very hard work of rebuilding your marriage. The last one took me 5 years to get to acceptance of what happened. To this day I do not believe some of the crap that was coming from my wife’s lips during the early years. Waywards justify everything they do to quench the shame that is building inside them. When your ready to face the shame and the consequences of your actions, maybe your husband will be willing to reconcile. Then he may not either. Your deceit allowed you to manipulate your relationship with him. He now sees you as a threat. I made my wife put it all down in a timeline. Then I took the info I had and ran it against what she wrote down. Then I grilled her. For years. The answers to those questions changed over the years as she became more self aware of her twisted thinking, Becoming honest to your spouse or yourself doesn’t happen over night . But you could start by telling him the truth.
SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 11:21 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 5:13 PM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Welcome to wayward side. Your marriage sounded like it was very unhealthy going into the A. I too had an unhealthy M and a workplace A.
I'm not going to comment on the "sexual intercourse vs just touching at the hotel" thing. I wasn't there, I don't know, but I completely understand that your BH is NOT going to believe you. You've lied so much already and broken so much trust with the kissing and groping, really, what's the difference at this point?
I think the first step in all of this is to get into IC. You're going to need someone who specializes in infidelity and relational issues.
THEN BOOK THE POLYGRAPH. Please do better than what I did and take an active role in the cleaning up after the affair. Your BH is bleeding out right now. It's your job to stop the bleeding. Getting the polygraph scheduled on your own, no questions or pushback would be a big step in that.
Also, one of the biggest pieces of work us WS's have to do is separating the troubles in the M from the troubles within. Troubles in the M put stress on your coping mechanisms. Your coping mechanisms were set BEFORE the M. THAT's what you need to address first. What within you thought cheating was a good way to cope with the alcoholism and stress in your M?
So, some basic recommendations,
1. GET IC
3. NEW JOB (I changed roles and campuses at a LARGE OEM and got NC that way).
4. Read, "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair"
Best of luck and welcome to the club no one wants to join.
NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 9:33 PM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
Meant kindly. If you aren't going to be honest with strangers online while maintaining your anonymity, you're not being honest with yourself.
Until you're honest with yourself and you can reflect that authenticity, you and your M are going to suffer with a terminal, yet avoidable illness. And all the associated suffering will be sitting right on your shoulders.
Get brutally honest with yourself and then you can begin to heal.
Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.
WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 11:16 PM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022
This0is0Fine You have a pm.
Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.
Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 1:56 AM on Friday, March 25th, 2022
Your story isn’t believable.
Betrayed spouses like me have often had the experience of trying desperately to believe their spouse’s lies even when evidence and common sense point to the contrary. What healthy people learn from this experience is to trust their instincts, common sense, general understandings of human behavior, and the evidence they have. It would be unhealthy for your husband to believe you, because it would mean that he’s trusting the word of someone who is a proven liar, someone who has deceived him and betrayed him, instead of trusting common sense, evidence, and his own intuition. I would never recommend that someone believe an unlikely story from a proven liar over a more plausible common sense explanation that fits the evidence they have.
There’s an outside chance your story is true. Unlikely things happen. You still cheated on him. Instead of fixating on his natural, healthy disbelief of an unlikely story, do the work to figure out why you went wrong and what you can do to make it right.
Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 11:23 AM on Friday, March 25th, 2022
The reason your post was moved from reconciliation to wayward is mainly to offer you the protection this forum gives you. It demands that betrayed people (like me) talk in a more carful and less accusatory tone than other forums might permit. We are all expected to play nice on this site, but some forums allow more rough-play. Waywards is a remarkable forum, both because of the protection offered but also because many who contribute are people that initiated and took part in infidelity, but have done their best to heal themselves (and in many cases their relationships).
We – the admins, mods, guides and attaches (still not sure what that means… I think it’s the SI equivalent of a License to kill…) and the old-timers here on the wayward forum will look after you!
More-or-less everything shared so far is true, albeit a lot could be said in kinder words.
Just to get that over with:
I can believe you when you state there was no sex – if by sex you mean two nekid people and penetration. However, it does sound there was sexual content in your build-up: fondling, groping, passionate kissing… all stuff with a sexual connection and/or designed for stimulation and arousal. Be very clear on this because when you tell your husband there was no sex – your definition of sex and his might not be aligned.
Infidelity is generally not the biggest killer of marriages where it’s discovered…
I venture (and I have no data to back this up, only years of experience) that if a wayward spouse was totally 100% truthful, non-evasive, didn’t justify or excuse and was totally 100% forthright and willing to get out of infidelity then most marriages could (and would) survive infidelity.
What kills a betrayed spouse ability and will to reconcile is having the scab torn off the bleeding sore of recovery.
Like if you were to tell him there was no sex, but then it turns out the OM had his hand on your bare ladyparts, or that there was some mutual hand-action or that your husband sees fondling of breasts as sex… whatever… then whatever "recovery" your hubby might have gained is pulled off.
Maybe worse is that each and every time the scab is torn off the cut get’s deeper… It erodes any will and belief in reconciliation.
Basically – IMHO – the only way to deal with this is total honesty. That’s where you sit down with the wounded party and tell him in the level of detail HE needs exactly what happened. Not "answer his questions", but rather tell him what happened and then answer whatever questions he might have.
Granted this is hard for both, and "important" details might vary from one to another. I do place a requirement on the BS to realize that maybe that you forgot to mention you were wearing the blue dress when you met him might not be relevant or seen as an important detail, so omitting that from the story might be understandable.
Reconciliation requires A LOT from both parties. It’s tough. It requires – as stated – total honesty, but it also requires that both parties aim at the unity wins, rather than each individual. It’s like a relay-race where individual performance only counts to the groups result.
I want to add one more factor:
I wont justify or "understand" your affair. But you say some things about your husbands behaviors that are in fact a form of "infidelity" for the marriage. Although we tend to see infidelity in the terms this site deals with (classic emotional and sexual infidelity) there are things like financial infidelity, emotional neglect and so on that are also forms of infidelity. Not that it matters, but even fundamental religious beliefs often list abandonment (both physical as in move-to-a-new-town AND emotional) and addiction as grounds for divorce, as well as classic infidelity.
You mention anger issues, emotional distancing and alcohol misuse.
NONE – NONE – NONE that justify or mitigate the infidelity!
Despite what you did. Despite your WRONG decision to seek solace elsewhere. You do have a right to want a MARRIAGE.
If your husband can’t foresee a future where he reconnects with you, where accountable trust can be established… you have a bigger issue than the affair. You have the issue of if the marriage is recoverable at all.
I think it’s perfectly OK to have some mental deadline – Your husband needs time to process the pain and deal with it. But at some point you two need to focus on recovering the marriage. Of course that includes dealing with the infidelity and it’s consequences, but it also includes both of you showing behaviors and actions that are good for the marriage. That includes dealing with drinking and emotional closeness.
"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus
MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 5:15 PM on Friday, March 25th, 2022
To start, I’m a WW.
Now, you’ve had a whole bunch of people tell you they don’t believe your story. I’m not going to comment on that. But what you’re seeing is that once you go down this road, all trust is lost. How does your BH separate what’s real and what’s not? You have one person saying you had sex, with really no reason to make himself appear worse, and then he has you saying you didn’t with every reason in the world to say you didn’t. The sad part is that I would guess your BH really wants to believe and trust you, but now he can’t. So, it’s up to you to prove to him that either you’re telling the truth or to really own up to what you did and come clean. How do you get your BH to believe you now when trust is lost? For me, my BH demanded I take a polygraph test. I did and passed. That didn’t help him deal with my A, but at least he knew that I was being honest with him. That’s why people are suggesting you offer that to him.
Right now is a scary time. You did something you weren’t supposed to do. Forget about how far you went or your reasons why. You had no business forming a close relationship with another man. But you did. I’m not throwing stones. I did far worse. But recognize what you did wrong. So you put yourself into this position. If you want your M, you’re going to need to do whatever it takes to save it and the first step is to be willing to lose your M by putting your BH first and being totally honest with him. He may leave you. He may not. But he will leave you if he thinks you’re still lying to him. So be honest. Be the woman he thought you were before this.
Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 5:59 PM on Wednesday, March 30th, 2022
Lynn - I hope we didn't lose you.
This has been a pattern I have seen lately on this forum. People come in and get different advice than they wanted.
You asked why/how to make your husband believe their wasn't any sex.
If we gave you a magic formula of sex, chores, and letting him buy certain things, that wouldn't fix your problems.
You are saying your BH is an alcoholic and that is why you went to the hotel with the other man. You know that you are searching for reasons to make yourself the right one in this situation, but you need to change your narrative.
Most wayward spouses react entirely out of fear. You will especially be there because you have 2 small children and if their father leaves you over this, then you will be the reason they grow up in a worse home than you did. As parents we all want our kids to grow up better than we did.
So, stop trying to worry about if he believes you had sex or not. That is just where this road begins. You are also still lying about why you cheated as MrsW said. You are trying to hold onto this high ground and you know that is impossible. Just let go of the outcome and try to ask more important questions on this forum.
Like how to take steps forward in reconciliation like letting your BH fume about his situation without judgement.
Then knowing when to push back if he does that too much in front of the kids.
How to dig out of the shame of what you did and what people will call you. Do you deserve that and how do you accept it, while moving forward without letting it weigh you down in your recovery. This part breaks so many recoveries.
Try to come back and not focus on how to win arguments with your BH but instead ask how to deal with your emotions inside stopping you from being a better spouse during your reconciliation.
You aren't in reconciliation yet either. Your first posts should talk about why you started the affair and how you fixed those holes in who you are. Then you can really tell your husband you won't cheat again.
Good luck and don't give up.
morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 12:59 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022
Your story is completely unbelievable.
You clearly wrote it because your BH comes on this site & you wanted him to see it.
Why do WSs think everyone else in the world is stupid???
Nothere759 ( member #80054) posted at 1:54 AM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022
Morningglory you better watch out. Truth bombs will get you a pm from the cheater squad!
WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 12:03 PM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022
The OP has not returned in over a month.
Please post respectfully.
Me: WS late 40’s
Him: BH (HoldingTogether)
D Day: 7/24/2010
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.
DictumVeritas ( member #74087) posted at 11:50 AM on Sunday, April 24th, 2022
Respectfully, if her husband told me he believed her story, I'd advise him not to.
Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:08 PM on Sunday, April 24th, 2022
Her husband didn't believe her. The people who responded to his thread didn't believe her. She thought that,by posting this in the reconciliation forum(originally), she would find people who perhaps were more willing to swallow bullshit because they were reconciling. She was hoping we would believe what she said,so she could show her husband that her story was possible.
I despise it when anyone attempts to use people in order to manipulate someone.
I'm so glad to see that our bullshit meters are finely tuned.