SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is the first post I have made for quiet sometime as I found the previous messages about leaving my husband hard to take, so please be measured and gentle with any responses.

I have been having trouble believing my husbands version of the truth with regards to a couple (I know ) of his affairs. They just never seemed to add up to me.

Following another terrible discussion about this fact where he once again swore that he was telling the truth, I realised that the reason I couldn’t accept what he said was because of how painful it was to believe that a) for one of the affairs he apparently only kissed the OW twice and she gave him oral sex but not to completion before, after I confronted him about the relationship, he left me for her. Only to return a couple of days later after ‘sealing the deal’.

b)That he had an 18 month emotional affair with a work colleague whilst we had a dead bedroom. He claims he didn’t touch her in anyway and they didn’t discuss leaving respective partners, it was just flirting. He says our dead bedroom was because he would masturbate to thoughts of her.

My head tells me that it can’t be true that someone who supposedly loved me for 7 years prior to the affair (a) and then for another 10 years before affair (b) would drop me like a piece of shit (sorry) for two kisses and an imaginary girlfriend.

Any help in how to reconcile this would be appreciated.

If I may, this is about you. You will not "buy it" until your gut tells you it is okay. Let’s be honest, an 18 month emotional affair with a dead bedroom at home does seem a bit unreasonable to be just "flirting". That is going to set off the BS meter.

Not to mention, it sounds as if he is downplaying masterbating over thoughts of her as just flirting. That also sets off the BS meter.

Throw in a previous affair, and I would bet a lack of empathy for what you were going through, you have a plate in front of that your gut says is rotten food. Yet, your brain, heart, whichever is driving wants to see it as a 5 course meal.

Until you are comfortable enough with the truth you have, and his actions are congruent, acceptance will always be a work in process. Do keep in mind, many BS never learn the full truth. They feel that they have enough information with the ring of truth to move forward with as much of a view as they need,

The boilerplate advice for this is to have the WS provide a written timeline and polygraph to confirm completeness and accuracy.

I've come around a little bit on some of the "unbelievable" bits of an A. Despite following a sort of pattern each one has it's own characteristic. What he might have like the most about the 18 month EA was the "will they/won't they" sexual tension. Especially after having a PA, he was probably patting himself on the back for not giving in for so long! That said, it's entirely possible (and more likely than not) that he is lying to you since cheaters lie a lot and TT is well documented.

That he came back SO FAST after he left you for her, almost makes me think he had built up too much of a perfect fantasy image of her, and the real life sex didn't live up to his imagination. Maybe I'm too optimistic.

Timeforhelp - I am sorry you are here. Sounds like you are in disbelief and who could blame you?

If you could wave a magic wand knowing what you know, what would you wish for? You can't go back to pre d-day so that's out. But moving forward what do you want?

What you seek, may not be what you want to hear, just like from the posters on here.

The truth is, your husband probably did way more than he is copping to, but b/c you don't want to challenge him with a hard line from the advice from here, you're not likely to get it the soft way with reasoning. he right now has very little consequences for his actions, and why should he, what are you willing to do to get there?

Like you said, he dropped you like a piece of shit after all these years for 2 kisses. You've logged onto this site for over a year now, and probably have had little progress. You can only accept what happened in 2 ways, either you find out the total truth (or best you can via Poly), or you walk away and don't care for that truth any longer. Your current option is driving you mad, so its not working.

Most affairs, the vast majority from what I have read, go undiscovered forever. I bet many of us here who think we know about all of them are mistake.
You know of two. Odds are there were others. I do not believe you, or most of us, ever get the complete story. It is very frustrating.

You are struggling b/c you keep expecting your H to be honest.

He will not do that. He’s proven that.

Stop trying to get verification from him on anything. It’s a no win proposition. He has chosen to continue to be dishonest.

My H was kicking me to the curb after 25 years of marriage. All while claiming he didn’t have sex with the OW. IMO he kissed her therefore there was sexual contact. Period.

You know the truth. You don’t need the cheater to tell you anything. While it would be nice if the cheater did come to Reconciliation with complete honesty, most often they don’t.

I don't know that there is ever an adequate answer to those questions that echo in our heads as BSs. "How could you do this?" "Why would you do this?" I makes zero sense. It's broken people justifying what makes them feel good in the moment. They're unhappy and they may tell themselves that's because of problems in their marriage, but it's really their own issues that they're not able to face.

I wonder if your WH was operating on a basis of, "Ok, I'm doing this thing and deep down I know it's not right, but I'm not taking it that next step which I can't deny crosses that final boundary."

Do you know if your WH's therapist is on board with the concept of full disclosure? Would they call him out if they thought he was lying or withholding facts? Has he talked with you about what he has figured out about the personal issues that led to these betrayals and how he got there? Do those align with the kind of thinking and behaviors he exhibited in his As?

Acceptance is not accepting that it happened or it is ok. Acceptance is you coming to the realization that you be ok with or without your spouse.

For me, it was coming to the realization that I couldn't believe a word that came out of my XWH's mouth, and being ok that I would never know the full truth. Next was knowing that I would never be able to make sense out of what he did because there is nothing that would make this be sensible.

Once I processed through that I lived authentically. When I was happy, sad, whatever, I was living through those emotions. XWH may think whatever happened, but he lied and robbed me of my agency to base my decisions on the truth.

He doesn't view love the same way you do. In his way, he may love you but not be able to maintain a committed relationship.

Your question was one of the reasons for me giving up on the idea of offering R and moving straight to D, as much as I didn't want to at the time.

Something this experience has taught me about acceptance and forgiveness is you can't just hope and wish and will acceptance and forgiveness into fruition. I do believe every BS has it in them to do both but for some it is not easily reached, for some it takes a long time if at all and that is me. I still struggle with accepting that he had done this to us. As much as D scares me, as much as I grieved a great M and hate that I'm starting over so late in the game I couldn't stay with him and be so miserable while I waited for me to accept what happened, or not. Me stewing on his affairs and the unfairness of it all, healing from it and not being able to commit my full trust to him and the M wasn't fair on either of us and as unfair his affairs were to me & the M I don't need to repay that unkindness you know? that's no life and definitely not a M worth having.

If you want to hold onto your M but you can't accept and forgive even though you really want to then IC will help you try to reach that goal. Please be aware this is something you can't circle on a calendar and hope you can accept by [X] date, it can take a lot of work, emotional energy and time to get to that place of acceptance and you still might not get there but IC can definitely help you try to get there.

Thanks for all of the responses so far, I appreciate each and every opinion I am provided with.

In response to some of the questions posed :

ISSF - If you could wave a magic wand knowing what you know, what would you wish for? You can't go back to pre d-day so that's out. But moving forward what do you want?

I know I can’t go back, and don’t wish for the pre dday relationship in the sense that I don’t want to be with someone who could do all of the terrible things my WH did to me.

Moving forward I need the constant spiral of questions and mind movies to stop, with one of the main reasons they persist being that his version of the ‘truth’ doesn’t make sense. I want my WH to become a safe partner to me.

S2F - Do you know if your WH's therapist is on board with the concept of full disclosure? Would they call him out if they thought he was lying or withholding facts? Has he talked with you about what he has figured out about the personal issues that led to these betrayals and how he got there? Do those align with the kind of thinking and behaviors he exhibited in his As?

My impression of my WH therapist is that he has been blowing smoke up his arse for about a year and telling him he is doing great when he definitely isn’t. I have told WH this and he is considering get a new therapist.

He hasn’t even started with the whys and how’s yet really although he has ‘pretended’ to for a while. A couple of other WS on here have been helping him pull his head out of his arse. Thanks to all of those individuals.

A follow up question for all of you who have said you managed to deal with the fact that you will never know the whole truth and have gone on to reconcile, how did you do this?

I know that I would be financially stable without my WS, I have a house and a good job. But in all honesty I don’t won’t a future without him.

Once again thank you for the replies already received and for those hopefully to come.

You'll never know the full truth. It just isn't possible since memory itself is fallible and WS tell themselves as many lies as they tell BS. You just need to have enough of the truth and the facts of the matter. So you must accept some level of uncertainty. On the flip side, you are always allowed to change your mind and decide R isn't working for you. I think the idea M is a lifelong commitment after an A is borderline nonsense.

A follow up question for all of you who have said you managed to deal with the fact that you will never know the whole truth and have gone on to reconcile, how did you do this?

Without a doubt, I 100% believe that it is possible to reconcile without knowing everything as long as my partner was trying, and willing to answer ANY question that I asked....truthfully.

If I didn't believe that through and through, reconciliation would never have a chance. Hell---I would never even attempt reconciliation if I didn't have that.

Do you feel that you can have this with your WS?

I know that I would be financially stable without my WS, I have a house and a good job. But in all honesty I don’t won’t a future without him.

TFH, you've really answered your own question here. you are unwilling to let go of your WH, it seems like regardless of the truth or consequence. What you seek is a rugsweep. You know your husband is only giving you a partial truth, but yet, you're unwilling to dole out the consequence b/c like you said above, you don't want a future without him.

The board can point on all the facts, give you sound advice, but I think you've already made up your mind on that fact that you're going to have to live with this until maybe your WH cheats again. He has already cheated twice that you know of. So either go get a polygraph done, or you may have to just accept that the truth is beyond your reach b/c you want to control the outcome of this relationship, by "not wanting a future without him".

Don't take this for suggesting that you leave your husband, it is not. You have to let go of the outcome and control sometimes to get to the truth. Otherwise, you risk lying to yourself.

Without a doubt, I 100% believe that it is possible to reconcile without knowing everything as long as my partner was trying, and willing to answer ANY question that I asked....truthfully.

This^^^^ exactly. Why would we continue with R if we don't believe we're getting the truth? It seems to me like the opening ante for R should be a return to Honesty.

I realised that the reason I couldn’t accept what he said was because of how painful it was to believe that a) for one of the affairs he apparently only kissed the OW twice and she gave him oral sex but not to completion before, after I confronted him about the relationship, he left me for her. Only to return a couple of days later after ‘sealing the deal’.

b)That he had an 18 month emotional affair with a work colleague whilst we had a dead bedroom. He claims he didn’t touch her in anyway and they didn’t discuss leaving respective partners, it was just flirting. He says our dead bedroom was because he would masturbate to thoughts of her.

My head tells me that it can’t be true that someone who supposedly loved me for 7 years prior to the affair (a) and then for another 10 years before affair (b) would drop me like a piece of shit (sorry) for two kisses and an imaginary girlfriend.

His story does sound bizarre... and cheaters lie. That's why we have ddays, because we've been lied to, both overtly and by omission. But I don't think we can always just assume that because a story sounds bizarre it can't be true. There IS such a thing as porn-enduced erectile dysfunction. If I'm reading your information correctly, your WH has a long history of watching porn, seeking out online relationships with pictures and sexting, and of course all the masturbation that goes with that. Eventually, the WS becomes so accustomed to his own touch and to being stimulated exactly the way he likes it, that he can no longer keep an erection with a partner. This tends to be a very embarrassing situation that is typically avoided, so.. dead bedroom. And possibly... avoiding intimacy with APs as well???

Long and short, it all comes down to whether you believe you're getting the truth or not. You could send him for a polygraph, but still, you might not believe that either. They've been known to fail, right? It's hard to trust our gut the way we once did when we've been betrayed. We trusted, and we were proved wrong. Here's the thing though... your gut is still there, and it's not necessary to never be wrong as long as you trust the one person who truly DESERVES your trust... and that's YOU. What I've found is that I am stronger than I've ever been before. My fWH's betrayal was the most painful thing that every happened to me. It ripped him away from me, severed our connection. But it also broke through my emotional dependence on him. Painfully, yes. But the bottom line is that I'm strong now. My most important relationship is with ME. I don't need him anymore. I am free to want him in my life, to enjoy him, but never again will I "need" him in order to be content with my life.

I didn't realize all that at first so I have no idea when it happened. Most of us have this horrible sense of insecurity while we're reinvesting in the relationship. It's terrifying, and I think the reason for it is that we think we're remaking the same connection we had, the same one which caused so much loss for us, so much grief that it was akin to how we'd feel if our WS suddenly died. But after awhile, I realized that I might be "reinvesting" in terms of commitment, but that the attachment I'd felt before was no longer a part of that. I'm attached to ME now. Having that attachment ripped away the way it was caused a change in me, one that forced self-reliance, and now, I don't know any other way to be. I don't think I could go back to the codependence I felt before, even if I wanted to.

Anyway, long post shortened... this experience changes us in ways we don't expect. Your feelings are normal... not sure what to believe yet and uncertain how safe you are in the relationship. But your gut is still there and you might find that you are already strong enough to face ANY challenge which comes your way. Trust the one person you know will always have your back... YOU.

((big hugs))

It’s common after an affair to get stuck. We are in shock. We are in pain. We are trying to solve issues. We are trying to Understand. Gather info. Our world is upside down and inside out. Omg. The detective work .

In our honest and practical mind, we can discuss things with our spouse.

Not so much. They are working against you. Holding back , saving face. Running from the truth and lying. I realized he was my biggest enemy thru this. Not necessarily oW

I never received any truth. Not one confession. I cried , I talked politely. I researched I read so many books. I read this website. It was the best help I received.

Because it’s the truth we need to see. Not hear.

It’s our eyes that need to finally see the real truth. I had to detach from WH emotionally. I could no longer trust his actions or words. All of a sudden the details were less important.

I know what new sex feels like. I could figure out what happened . I stopped waiting for him to follow thru like a man . To confess

I learned my WH was not who I thought he was. He was faking his morals. In the end , it didn’t matter what type , how many times , what was the meaning of the affair? Does he love me or her? The details were punches of pain for the same result .

He was not a good husband. He was not a good man. He was not what I respect. I accepted this truth. And was much healed for it

My spouse cheated several times. He was ok with that. He was ok with the destruction it would cause. He was ok with me sitting in this pain with no answers. He was ok with the pain in our children. Our shame.

I didn’t need to know any details after realizing this. I don’t care what day it happened or what she wore . Details became ridiculous.

I stopped fighting this affair. I couldn’t fix it. I couldn’t change him. He refused to help with this or repair. My choices had to be about saving me and my kids

We were married 36 years . I did not want to live divorced at my age. I had no other choice. He refused to be decent.

Sometimes you have to find your way. Even if you don’t want to.

It’s early for you. You might want to look into narcissist. I was very closed minded when someone told me to do it. I couldn’t accept that yet. Later , it was everything.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 12:03 AM, Thursday, December 2nd]

My stbxh cheated for 10 years. He moved out after our 24th anniversary at my request. After D day he lied for another 3 month and went back to her in secret. They lie, and lie and lie. After 3 yrs of not reconciling, we separated. I found out he still had secrets. In my experience, if it feels like a lie, it is. And most of what they say is lies. Sorry. That is my experience. I hope it won’t be yours.

He needs to be real with you, I would assume he is lying and hiding things from you. Trust your gut, not him. You need to be able to trust him again to even start to reconcile. Do you?

A follow up question for all of you who have said you managed to deal with the fact that you will never know the whole truth and have gone on to reconcile, how did you do this?

I gave up way too early on getting answers during R. I swept it all under the rug and tried to move on per our therapist's advice. But because I couldn't forgive what I didn't know about I settled for acceptance. You can read about that concept the book "How Can I Forgive You."

I've reached a point where that wasn't enough anymore so I'm revisiting all of that now. In the years since my FWW has come to better understand the importance of being open and honest. Now we're just battling years of cobwebs and deliberate forgetfulness.

Sometimes it takes a long time for even a truly remorseful WS to understand and commit to the process of full disclosure. I'm hopeful that we've reached that point.

Have you ever thought your husband is a bully and a child? It doesn’t appear as if he cares about you. I hope you care enough about yourself to demand he grow up. He probably won’t. He likes his life. He doesn’t care if you don’t.

If he has a therapist for a year and he is still up to no good there isn’t much hope he will change.

Please look after your health. Stress is a killer.