SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Once again, thank you for the replies.

I understand my WS like all others is a liar, I understand that I will never know the whole truth due to ‘imperfect memories’, I also know that I can’t rug sweep, even if my previous post made it sound like I want to. The lies I ‘feel’ keep the affairs alive for me with millions of questions buzzing around my head. I don’t want to live with a liar, but I also don’t want to leave my husband. What I am trying to find out is if it is possible to ‘accept’ the unknown and move on to a full and happy marriage?

Has anyone done this? How do you do it?

If not, how do I get my husband to admit the truth? I have made him sleep in the couch, I made him admit his affairs to his family, he signed a post nup (which he then broke so I now own everything, hence my financial stability). Nothing seems to affect him in this matter......

The lies I ‘feel’ keep the affairs alive for me with millions of questions buzzing around my head. I don’t want to live with a liar, but I also don’t want to leave my husband. What I am trying to find out is if it is possible to ‘accept’ the unknown and move on to a full and happy marriage?

Have the lies been resolved? Are you in a relationship where you KNOW that any question you ask will be met with the truth? Do you believe you WH is currently HONEST?

Yes.. people can reconcile and have a happy marriage after infidelity. But no, I can't think of any case where HONESTY hasn't been restored. It doesn't matter if you don't know everything. What matters is that you get an honest answer to any question you decide to ask. If you don't feel like you're there yet, either one of two things are going on. Either he's not being completely 100% honest yet, or you don't BELIEVE him when he talks. Both of those issues can be resolved. First though, you need to find out which it is.

I understand my WS like all others is a liar, I understand that I will never know the whole truth due to ‘imperfect memories’, I also know that I can’t rug sweep, even if my previous post made it sound like I want to. The lies I ‘feel’ keep the affairs alive for me with millions of questions buzzing around my head. I don’t want to live with a liar, but I also don’t want to leave my husband. What I am trying to find out is if it is possible to ‘accept’ the unknown and move on to a full and happy marriage?

Has anyone done this? How do you do it?

If not, how do I get my husband to admit the truth? I have made him sleep in the couch, I made him admit his affairs to his family, he signed a post nup (which he then broke so I now own everything, hence my financial stability). Nothing seems to affect him in this matter......

I wish there was something that I did during my original R that I could recommend. Maybe one thing.

I was desperate to R, did the "pick me" dance, and swallowed all the blame she fed me. That was in part because I loved her, or the person she had been, so much. But I understand now that it was also in large part a response to the trauma of betrayal and desperately clinging to the one person I felt I could love and trust. Even though she was no longer that.

When I talked in IC about wanting answers I was told that I should try to think about the present and not the past and consider how lucky we were to be still together. "You know what adults do in the bedroom," the therapist would say when I talked about wanting details. I should have responded, "I know what *WE* do in the bedroom. I have no idea what *THEY* did in the bedroom."

My FWW later related here that I said the thing about knowing what adults do in the bedroom to her. Maybe she was just remembering the therapist repeating it in MC. Maybe I said it and hoped that I meant it. She was making getting answers torture for both of us and I couldn't keep going through that so I gave up. I put her pain ahead of my own just like I always had.

Instead I considered what I thought were the worst case scenarios and thought about whether I could accept those - accept, not forgive. And I thought that I could. So I accepted that and tried to focus on the present rather than the past. Basically therapist prescribed rug sweeping.

We eventually got back to a very happy marriage. My FWW did a lot of work on herself and became a much better spouse. I can't say that it was "full" because there continued to be that black hole of time and events that we could not discuss. I continued to carry shame, blame, and self-doubt because of those unresolved issues. But that was just the burden I accepted. That's what I do.

Until 18 years later when I couldn't. Or won't. And that's where I am now which is a whole other long story. But here's the part that is relevant to your question. The problem with my strategy of "accepting the worst case" is that you really can't conceive of the true "worst case" unless you have a deep, clear-eyed understanding of the whys and wherefores of the A. Without that your idea of "worst case" is just wishful thinking.

If you think you understand your WH and the A well to have a good grasp of the "worst case," maybe that's a strategy that can help. But at the time I didn't have that. I had no idea just how deceitful she could be or just how far she would go in pursuit of external validation.

This will sound harsh but it sounds like the "acceptance" you are working towards is that he is a serial cheater, not remorseful, has no interest in reconciling, and does not respect you or the marriage. He just keeps cheating, that is not what I call a "full and happy marriage". Is that the marriage you want?

I think you know the answers to the questions you are asking.

To you, what is considered "rugsweeping” and how does that differ from what you’re trying to achieve?

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 9:06 PM, Monday, December 6th]

Oh my goodness, this was a very hard thread for me to read because it reminds me so much of myself and the situation I was in.

My now deceased WH also cheated on me on multiple different occasions. He lied, denied, rugswept, manipulated, conned me with gifts, trickled truthed... the gamat. He did it to hide his affairs and who he was from the get go. And we were together for 35 years (married 32).

Imagine living with someone like that and having suspiciousions of his affairs but him always denying and playing down everything, except for one of the many affairs he had.

He TT his relationship with her because I believe he was devastated over losing her and maybe her husband even found out the truth of their relationship? And eventhough I suspected who she was, he always told me it was someone different who had no name because he couldn't remember her name. Mystery women in plain site. I mean it was obvious from all the text messages, phone calls and fb comments to her. Oh, but he only had sex with this mystery woman with no name only two times.

I was in such deep denial that I wanted to believe all of his lies. But when I did mention this particular COW at different times, he would flip out on me. He did horrendous things against me, short of hitting me. That is one thing he never did do. And to top it off he was an alcoholic. And like how you feel, and it didn't matter what he did, I still wanted to stay with him, even at the detriment of my own mental health.

One thing that struck me when I was reading your story today is that there are two people in this marriage, you and your WH. Neither of you want to make the choice to change, so the vicous cycle continues. He doesn't want to stop doing whatever he is doing and I get the feeling there is a lot more that you've had gut feelings about. Trust your gut. And you don't want to stop trying to "force" yes FORCE him to change, so the vicious cycle continues.

I feel for you. I know how it is to not want to let go in spite of everything he is and has done to continue to hurt you. But this is also who he is and clearly he enjoys his dirty little secrets, something you will have to accept about him.

You even got him to sign an agreement where if he lies, everything is yours. And now everything is yours. But I also believe that he has one up on you because no matter what he says, does or is about to do, he knows that you will NEVER EVER leave him. He's got you in his grips.

I did the same thing, except with his money and retirement. He promised he would give it all to me, and rightfully so. But he just didn't want me to mess with his fantasy world that he though he so deserved.

And up to that point I was slowly learning to accept him and was also learning to look the other way when he flirted with other women, stared at them, just had to ask them questions to get their attention... he did all sorts of things to get their attention. And this is something you also are going to need to do if you want to continue to stay with him. And it isn't easy to accept that because it is disrespectful, degrading and hurtful. I mean these men act as if they are God's gift to women when acting this way and thinking that it's okay. It's such childish behavior. And he was a grown ass man acting out and chasing women, at my detriment.

I just wish one of us were capable of change to get the ball rolling in ANY direction. I know that I was slowly beginning to emotionally detach but it was too late for that.

I have my own healing to do now. I am finding that in order for me to heal from the continued trauma my DWH imposed on me, along with my childhood trauma, I am going to need to dig deep within myself and do some soul-searching because I never want to experience or accept anything like this again. I look back now and see the pure insanity he brought into the marriage.

Have you considered taking a different approach and try asking yourself why you think it's okay and acceptable to live with someone who has caused and is still causing you so much emotional harm? Something within yourself has taught you that accepting this behavior from your WH is okay. And no way the answer is love because love doesn't look like that.

Have you considered attending CODA meetings and individual therapy? Careful with therapists though. Maybe try finding a therapist who specializes in trauma. I have also found SI to be very beneficial.

I'm sorry that you also have found your way here but it is the best place you never wanted to be in. Lots of help, guidance and healing here.

Have you considered taking a different approach and try asking yourself why you think it's okay and acceptable to live with someone who has caused and is still causing you so much emotional harm? Something within yourself has taught you that accepting this behavior from your WH is okay. And no way the answer is love because love doesn't look like that.

This. a thousand times this.

You cannot force someone to be honest. You can't force someone to be remorseful or to be responsible or to be accountable. You only control you. And one of the things you can work on (and it ain't easy) is figuring out why it would be OK to remain with someone so rife with disrespect.

Hugs.

Great stuff here and I also find myself having accepted the pain and lies told to me over the years. I have always chalked it up to
1) my marriage vows
2) us having kids (to stay)
3) I truly feel I love her unconditionally and am scared to death what my life would be without her

Part of #3 that gets in my crawl is that she was willing , and so to speak, brave enough to try something else. I see that as a lack of love and caring on her end but in some sort of jealous way she was brave enough to go after something she thought she wanted and consequences be damned. I can’t do that. I’ve always been a safe guy. Do things the right way. I have to be able to look myself in the mirror every morning.
It’s clear she and I are different moral people but divorce scares the hell out of me. So I’ve tried to make do and make the best of my situation. I keep thinking she will change and someday realize she has hard working caring man at home that can provide all the things she thinks her affair partners do. Without hope, what do I have??

Without hope, what do I have??

There's hope and there's hopium. Hopium is the drug that keeps you stuck in bad situations. Hope is the attitude that can lead you out of bad situations. You can view divorce as scary or you can view divorce as a path to a different life and have hope that you will find the courage to stand on your own. Hope without some action to help make your wishes come true is often a lie that we sell ourselves so that we don't have to do hard things.

Some more answers to the questions posed.....

Have the lies been resolved? Are you in a relationship where you KNOW that any question you ask will be met with the truth? Do you believe you WH is currently HONEST? — short answer No. WH was still lying only a couple of weeks ago for sure and I still feel he is omitting pertinent facts about at least two of his affairs.

. Is that the marriage you want? — Definitely not, this is the marriage I am currently trying to survive in but do not want to live here permanently.

To you, what is considered "rugsweeping" and how does that differ from what you’re trying to achieve? — I thought rug sweeping was ignoring it all, I have no idea what this is. I want total honesty, I just don’t feel like I am getting it.

Have you considered taking a different approach and try asking yourself why you think it's okay and acceptable to live with someone who has caused and is still causing you so much emotional harm? Something within yourself has taught you that accepting this behavior from your WH is okay. And no way the answer is love because love doesn't look like that. — I am quickly realising my version of love is not my WH’s version. He only seems capable of loving himself right now.

Without hope, what do I have?? — I’m not sure I even have hope at the moment.

What I am trying to find out is if it is possible to ‘accept’ the unknown and move on to a full and happy marriage?

Has anyone done this? How do you do it?

I've done that, as have a lot of people who are happy in R.

ETA: I didn't answer the 'how' question - consistent behavior by my W convinced me that she came as clean as she could, under the circumstances. For example, they did a LOT of texting, but she deleted all the texts as they came in and went out, so I never saw those - but I thought she'd have shown them to me if she still had them.

I want total honesty, I just don’t feel like I am getting it.

I asked tons of questions, and I got a few 'IDKs', so I don't know everything. Of course. But I do believe I've gotten and continue to get total honesty. I think I would have D'ed without it. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have rebuilt a relationship without total honesty. The only alternative I can see is rug-sweeping.

You might be able to stay in your M without total honesty, but it's a lot riskier than I want to imagine....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:14 PM, Thursday, December 9th]

A few thoughts.

1. You can’t be married to someone you don’t trust. If you put aside the cheating, it ultimately is lack of trust that will end a marriage. You need to ask yourself can I trust him. Watch his actions over time. Decide yes or no.
2. If you R your old marriage must die, and you start a new marriage. It will never be the same and it sure won’t be easy, but people do it. So in this case, you accept the infidelity happened, and you go forward. You will need rules and an agreement on what the marriage will be. Like no lying ever. No omission. Etc.
3. Do you need to know everything? Depends on you, it it is hard to unknow things. I knew a lot, yet he still lied. Lying was my dealbreaker, it is the reason we split.

There is no easy answer and it is very personal choice. You can change your mind if it isn’t working out. I do suggest that you write out goals and what a happy marriage looks like, and check in with yourself regularly to see If it is still what you want it.