Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 8:45 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
To answer the question of the title of your post: No, do not give it more time.
"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."
BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20
src9043 ( Member #75367) posted at 8:56 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I am a hardliner when it comes to this crap. This is based on my own life experience and reading too many stories like the one you are now living.
Better think long and hard about why you want to stay with this woman. She cheated on you while you broke your ass making a better life for the both of you. How utterly treacherous and disgusting. Her excuse is lame and typical. She doesn't want to end the marriage because of all the two of you have built. Really? Then why fuck around behind your back. I'm livid just reading your account. She certainly isn't sorry and doesn't express any true love for you.
She has so much work to do if she really gave a shit and she has done none of it. She is most likely still involved with the POS and her skank enabling girlfriend and family. They are all culpable. Utterly wrong and contrary to any desire to reconcile unless under her terms.
Others will give you advice on how to try and save this marriage. I will not. You should divorce her and move on. Do you honestly want to live with this person for the rest of your life? No amount of money is worth it.
If you stay in this dysfunctional mess, go find a girlfriend. Your marriage sucks.
WontBeFooledAgai ( Member #72671) posted at 8:58 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
OP, you are actually being way too soft here.
Your W had (still has?) a boyfriend. That alone would be grounds for divorce. Even if she did all the right things after the fact, which includes serious regret, working towards her whys (taking full responsibility for her affair), full transparency and cutting out all enemies of your marriage--including her "best friend"--out of it.
--has not given you transparency
--has not cut out her best friend
--doesn't even seem to be all that sorry!
So what you have is much worse than just a WW who cheated on you. You have a WW who cheated on you AND who is clearly disrespecting you still. And is quite likely still in the affair. How do you put up with this?
Better Wake Up ASAP!
[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:09 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]
HappilyMarried1 ( Member #77296) posted at 9:00 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I'm sorry you are going through this @Launch
I know it is probably even more of a kick in the gut since you had thought you all were starting to obtain your dreams and getting on in life. However, for you to have a good life (especially with her) you are going to have to start showing some tough love.
1) She must give you access to all types of communication. No questions. (Since she refused tell her that you take that to mean she is lying to you again and still in contact with the OM.)
2) She should within a week give you a complete timeline of the affair times, places, etc.
3) she gets one chance to do what you need her to do have any chance for R.
4) Let her know once all info is provided you will be scheduling a polygraph to verify info.
Finally, the refusal to turnover phone and passwords is totally unacceptable. You need to tell her failure to do this leaves no choice that you will have her served with divorce papers the next day. She needs to have some consequences for her behavior. Ask her how she would feel and expect if the cheating was the other way around. To have any chance at love again with her you are going to have show some tough love. If she refuses to abide to these requirements then you will have your answer and get a divorce and move on with your life. Above all do not allow her to rug-sweep this affair. Best of luck!
[This message edited by HappilyMarried1 at 3:30 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]
13YearsR ( Member #58259) posted at 9:04 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
Finally, the refusal to turnover phone and passwords is totally unacceptable. You need to tell her failure to do this leaves no choice that you will have her served with divorce papers the next day.
I wouldn't say a thing. I'd just do it. She's already been asked.
[This message edited by 13YearsR at 3:04 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]
The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem
DDay 2004 Successful R and going on 33 years married
The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 9:12 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I think you have been reasonable, fair and understanding.
She’s co to her to lie and cheat and avoid any consequences, remorse, or making amends on any level.
When you decide you’ve had enough, you will make the decisions you need to get yourself out of this nightmare. Whether you separate or divorce or whatever happens, you need to do what is best for you if your wife won’t change or do anything towards reconciliation.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.
nekonamida ( Member #42956) posted at 9:22 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I don’t have access to her phone or email. I’ve asked. She refused.
She's still in contact with him then. The A isn't over even if they're not meeting up for sex. Proceed as if you know this to be true unless she can prove to you that she has been keeping NC.
Sharkman ( Member #56818) posted at 9:25 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
She’s not exhibiting and signs of remorse and not even that damn basics of proving the affair is over. Phrasing your question from a different perspective, what reasons has she given you to just not cut, run and recover? Seems like not many from this vantage point.
grubs ( Member #77165) posted at 9:25 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
In love with her. But realizing I’m in love with the person she used to be, and this current person I live with is not that person anymore.
You love the person you used to think she was. This was a premeditated affair with her BFFs brother. She can't even be bothered to get to the starting line for R. That's not a sign that she ever was who you believed.
rugswept ( Member #48084) posted at 9:49 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I was working almost at the limit a person might be able to in my late twenties for the sake of my career I was trying to build. The work I did during those years and the discoveries I had made for myself, went on to power a lot of my career giving me a big advantage leading to my eventual success. During the late twenties years, it was a death march of intense effort and little to show for except for the collection of polished skills and innovative ideas about things to come.
At that time my WW got the boyfriend and that went on for just under a year and a half. There was no SI, there was nothing like this and I made EVERY classic mistake a wounded BS can.
Here are the two golden nuggets I have seen on SI and other sources, these two points:
1. The timeline - list of events, dates, things that happened (as in sex acts if you want them), dates, gifts, real details with maybe more to be filled in later and she is to write it and read it to you and answer all questions you have. It means interrogations to get facts and ensure consistency in the story.
2. The 180 - you know what this is. Read all about it, take the best and use it. Make sure you don't go soft.
I am convinced those steps are the anchors for eventual recovery, truth, to minimize trickle truth, to make the fog of unicorn farts fantasy land about "him" to burn off completely.
In my case it still hangs big (this is decades later) that she was penetrated by him in ways he wanted. That's the kind of thing your wife will not discuss.
Over the first TEN YEARS I got to ask about two questions that were general about the A. I kept it all inside. I internalized and lived the total hell of what that does to you, going to the family events and making nice, smiling, while crying and torn apart from all that stewing in me. After my denial fog cleared, I had a good idea what had in happened in her timeline where I could see when and what "she brought home" from her sessions with him by way of different sexual behaviors.
DON'T BE ME. DON'T DO WHAT I DID. DON'T BE THAT GUY. FIND IT ALL OUT, RIGHT NOW or D her and tell her that. Make it clear: you're not after D at all, you're after the whole truth. It is the ONLY way you can recover and in the absence of truth, D is the only remedy. That's final for dealing with ALL affairs.
Points 1 and 2 above are, in a nutshell, the best of the collective knowledge gleaned across the spectrum of all cheater patterns. It is derived from the collective knowledge over the years by thousands of people. 1 and 2 are the most general remedy in dealing with an A, like the discovery of aspirin and penicillin is in treating health disorders.
You're really smart and mostly doing the right stuff in a big way. You have self doubts about how to get to the bottom of the rest of it. You know you need it. Take it from us on how to do it. Once again, go back to Points 1 and 2.
R'd (rug swept everything) decades ago.
I'm big on R. Very happy marriage but can never forget.
Apparition ( Member #75755) posted at 9:58 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
Has she given you a timeline? Have both of you had STD tests?
I know advice is coming like machine gun fire, but please take heed of the above. I believed some of my wife’s assertions, such as condom use. Come to find out it was just more lies and she gave me an STD. Maybe I’m a rarity, by cheaters trust their intimate APs and are risk takers anyway. It was fortunate I had STDs that antibiotics could cure and its always better sooner than later on that. Sorry to focus on something so dark; but cheaters bring harm of all kind to their spouse. You have to protect you now. My WWs incredulous attitude about STD tests did not match her attitude when we got the results. You FIRST. You’re trained to care for her first. 🛑
[This message edited by Apparition at 4:36 PM, Friday, August 6th]
Her: WW (expert serial cheater)
beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 10:13 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
So sorry you're in this too.
The mere fact that she's not working to change her behavior indicates that the affair is still ongoing. More people know if from her friend's side. They know it because she's having an affair with one of their family members. Their vacation is for their family which includes your wife. She's being treated as family since she's already their sister-in-law. You're the only one that's making it unofficial yet. It's supposed to be a secret that will be kept long enough until they get the perfect opportunity to decide when to pull the trigger. She's already out of your marriage whether you admit it or not. Her husband is her friend's brother. It's not official yet but that's her husband now. She's already a family member from their point of view.
She's with you because, you are right, you are the stable guy. You're her safe place. But you are also her rug. She treats you like rug and your passive behavior indicates that she can do whatever she wants because she's getting away with it. But once you remove that stability from your end. I 100% guarantee that she will leave, that's for sure.
src9043 ( Member #75367) posted at 10:16 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
You have no children. Your divorce would be relatively clean. Don't be a fool like so many of us by throwing away additional wasted years on a person that is not worthy. File now and don't look back. It will be much worse when she cheats on you after you have children. She will.
jujuchrist ( New Member #78594) posted at 10:21 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
She went on a trip with her friend, her friend's husband and some family, but you were not invited?
A more than one year affair..
Her current behavior...
File. Now. You will have time to think later. You are not just a provider.
Launch (original poster New Member #79242) posted at 10:26 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
Thank you everyone. I know what must be done, just have to muster the strength to do it.
WontBeFooledAgai ( Member #72671) posted at 11:18 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
So, what are your next steps? It does help greatly to have a plan.
HalfTime2017 ( Member #64366) posted at 11:26 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
One of your first demands should be a complete and full breakup of that friend of hers. She enabled your wife to have an affair with her brother. That's not a friend of yours and not one of the family. That's another cheap whore who has probably done the same to her husband.
Make your wife formally end that friendship, in addition to your other demands of her. Cut that shit off clean. I'd make her call when you're present, and burn that bridge down. If she is unwilling to choose you over her girlfriend, you don't have much of a marriage to save, loving her or not.
Plus, can you even consider doing the pick me dance knowing that you were busting your ass off to save for the family house, while she was out there screwing around. She was mad b/c you worked too much???? WTF. Talk about not being grateful. She lacks insight and empathy for all that you do, and instead of doing more to help you around the house, she is alley catting around. Does that sound like someone you want to stay with?
Like others have said, you should set up some strong boundaries, make your demands and if she fails them, file. Make her ass go back to work too.
Justsomeguy ( Member #65583) posted at 11:29 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
I've changed my position on how to deal with affairs in the days and months after Dday. The conventional wisdom is to not make a decision in the first 6 months because the BS is in shock. I now disagree with this advice, partly from my own experience and party from reading Cheating in a Nutshell. The premise that not kicking the WS to the curb is waiting to make a decision is flaw, as no acting is effectively making a decision to remain in an abusive relationship rather than sen a clear and decisive message that you will suffer no bullshit. If a BS files for divorce immediately, it flips the power relation entirely, as they are no longer the one who desires the marriage more. Even an idiot is right once in awhile, and as Ester Perel states, the partner who is least on ested in a relationship is the one n control.
By filing immediately, you destroy the fantasy and essentially carpet bomb the illicit relationship, forcing the WS to pull her or his head out of their ass, the cranial/rectal extraction... Of they have any hope of saving the M then they have to get to work right away. If they are unwilling to fo the work, then you wont be back in 6 months to a year posting how you wish you would have filed. You'll be ahead of the game.
The Affair recovery industry woefully overstates the success record of marriages that not only survive, but are stronger than ever. Thumos has some data on this I think but only a small percentage of marriages survive infidelity beyond the 5 year mark, which is curiously enough, the threshold for a BS healing.
Your WW might have a Damascus moment where she realizes her depravity and then moves heaven and earth for the rest of her life, desperately trying to atone for the grievous damage she had inflicted on undeserving people, but odds are...nope. only you know her.
Me:53STBXWW:51DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off.Denied having an affair in court papers.
Cooley2here ( Member #62939) posted at 11:42 PM on Thursday, August 5th, 2021
When you consider that men and women who go to war are gone for months and months and months, or some travels a great deal, or have to work long hours sometimes people are just not available for their spouses and most of the time neither cheats. That’s the difference between your wife and you. It’s that simple, she chose to cheat and you have not.
If she still wandering around in a fog mourning the loss of a lover tell her to not let the door hit her in the rear. You have better things to do with your time and your energy then try to make someone love you. It’s a foolish endeavor and it’s always painful and I think you deserve so much better than that.
[This message edited by Cooley2here at 5:43 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]
To thine own self be true. Shakespeare
SnowToArmPits ( Member #50943) posted at 12:24 AM on Friday, August 6th, 2021
Right now I feel used, that I’m the stability guy while she went out and had her fun.
This sums things up pretty well, you were clear-eyed when you wrote this.
I agree with everyone else, she either gets on the reconciliation team with you, all in, or it's time to move on. Your marriage going forward looks pretty damn dismal unless you demand more.
If you do reconcile, I suggest one of the conditions is she works full time just like you.