SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You need to get REAL ANGRY in order to do what must be done. Again, she had over a one-year affair and went on a trip with the POSOM, her friends and family as if the POSOM was her husband while you worked your butt off trying to make a better life for the two of you and start a family. UGH! How utterly disgraceful, disrespectful, disgusting, selfish, and ruthless.

There is no coming back from something this heinous. Get rid of this trash now. You will regret staying with this horrible person. Yes, she is a horrible person to disrespect you so blatantly. I know you are hurting, but do what has to be done and jettison this person and her worthless, disgusting enablers forevermore.

Rely on family and friends to support you while you transition away from this person. BTW, the affair most likely continues or will start again in the near future. She is making a chump out of you. TELL ALL FAMILY AND FRIENDS WHAT SHE DID.

I'm sorry if I missed it but - Do you guys have kids?

Who is the OM? Is he married, divorced, hold a good job, or have history of failed relationships?

From her lack of cooperation/transparency, it's highly probably that the affair is still going on.

And therefore your wife is putting you on 'hold' while hoping/waiting for the OM to offer to marry her.

At best that makes you her Plan B (her 2nd or 3rd choice).

She needs to see you taking action steps to disappear from her life for good.

It's not intuitive but the stronger you are (no tears or begging) and the more decisive you are in exiting infidelity - the more attractive your wife will find you.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:10 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]

Launch -

I’m coming out swinging, please don’t hate me, I hope you realize this is coming from a desire to help you even though it’s harsh 😬——

My preference is to work it out, but my question is, how long should I give her to come out with the truth

30 Min after this is when:

I found lingerie in her luggage when she got home, including some I hadn’t seen before, and confronted her about it.

Launch - you’re a highly intelligent guy. You knew this was bullshit. You should’ve put her out then and there. But you didn’t, and any respect your wife had left for you evaporated away. Your wife simply couldn’t believe you reacted so weakly, but was grateful because she got to remain a pampered princess while fucking another.

Confronted her about this, more lies, she told me it happened a year ago, it was never physical Etc.

And the 1%of respect she may have had left, gone like vapor. She thinks you’re stupid (although we know you aren’t)

Fast forward a couple weeks, and I catch her lying about going to lunch with her sister. She was out to lunch with her friends brother, and saw her give him a "goodbye kiss" in the parking lot. Confronted her on this one too

"Too" meaning more than once, meaning another opportunity for your wife to watch you pretend there’s consequences to her continuous lies and screwing another man.

She stormed off for a few hours and came back

And you let her in the door? She needed a few hours to think about it? Where’d she go? Who was she with? I speculate she spent time with her boyfriend.

And definitely spent time talking to someone who convinced her she’d be a fool to leave you. You foot all the bills, she doesn’t have to work, she’s well taken care of, and she can hide her affair(s) better. Who would leave that?

she doesn’t want to throw away everything we built together over the past 12 years.

If that were true she wouldn’t have cheated. She came back because she doesn’t have to work and because you’ve had such a tepid response throughout this entire debacle, she figured she can continue to get away with cheating.

It’s been about a month since that day, and I have yet to get her to tell me the whole truth, even when confronted with evidence that conflicts with her story. Everything seems perfectly fine as long as I don’t try to discuss the affair, or the hurt she has caused. She’s acting the part of the good wife, but not giving me anything I need for me to heal. Those conversations turn into blaming me for "being too focused on work".

She has no remorse for you at all.

It’s pretty clear she’s still in the affair fog, and I’m trying to be patient.

I fear the use of "affair fog" is over used & gives BS’ another way to remain in denial and pretend their WS isn’t that bad of a person because they’re under a "spell" and have no agency. The concept of "affair fog" exists, it doesn’t apply to half of affairs. Launch it absolutely does not in yours. Your wife is confused about nothing. She has no delusions. She knows exactly what she’s doing. Using you for a comfy life while screwing men not her husband, you know this already. There’s NOTHING foggy about her thinking right now.

believe she has cut it off for the past month (Not 100%, but maybe 90%) , but is that enough for now?

I-
You’re asking whether your WIFE cutting off her AFFAIR PARTNER 90% is enough for right now.

My patience is wearing thin. Would love to hear from folks with experience navigating the affair fog

She’s in NO fog.

I’m fighting my own nature right now,

Why???

but want to make sure my pride doesn’t cause me future regret

Regret what? Staying in a marriage where your WW has absolutely zero respect for you, will continue to cheat on you and you’ll be in a constant state of anxiety wondering who she’s currently sleeping with?

and actually start to show that she cares she hurt me?

At least you have no delusions that she does not care that she hurt you (and continues to do so because the affair has not ended.)

File for D and 1. she’ll agree to divorce and you won’t waste time on a fake R, quicker you can find someone who will be faithful to you Or 2. She can try to earn your trust back and become a remorseful WS (and hopefully not cheat again) —- you can always stop the D paperwork.

If you continue the way you’re going, you’re giving your wife more time to abuse you, you are limiting the possibility of reunification because women do not want weak men & I’m really really really (truly) am sorry to say, this is how she views you. The longer you diddy daddle, the more unattractive you are. The less likely she’ll want to make it work.

If she decides to try and win you back, she has to go NC with that entire family, nonnegotiable.

Don’t be scared to file D, the worst that can happen, your wife’s already left you, D gets rid of a cheater permanently.

She needs to see you taking action steps to disappear from her life for good.

Exactly

It's not intuitive but the stronger you are (no tears or begging) and the more decisive you are in exiting infidelity - the more attractive your wife will find you.

Exactly

Thank you to everyone. She spent another night of mostly denials, and admitted to slightly more than the past. Remorse is still non existent. And she continues to be annoyed to have the conversation. Everyone’s words here give me strength. Thank you.

It may have been mentioned before, but the pace and direction that this goes, is up to YOU. Not your WS.

The WS is the one who betrayed you, and needs to do the chasing and following.

If the WS follows you on your path that you have chosen, well and good. If the WS fall behind, it is up to them to pick themselves up and hoof it to catch up to you.

This will give you an idea of how much they want/value their relationship with you. If they fall behind, and make perfunctory actions to catch up, then you will know how much they want R.

Another point; the AP is her friend's brother.... is she still in contact with her friend?

Comms with her AP may not be done directly now, and it will probably go thru her friend (who is probably very excited that your WS is almost like family now).

If you do decide on the R path, then the friend and that whole group will need to be excised out of your lives, as their interest is not in helping the M, but to 'bring her over' to become part of their 'family'.

The other posters have also given advice that is extremely valuable, and hope that you are able to apply some of it to your situation to get yourself out of Infidelity.

Were it me, I'd give her a long list of questions to answer and give her 24 hours. If she refuses or lies, then tell her marriage over. She has chosen her betrayal partner over you. Make it stick. No half truths...

@Launch,

You still sound very much like the henpecked husband. Harsh but true, I really don't think you understand how dire of a situation you are in. You need to be taking FAR stronger actions than you are currently taking, or this will be your life. Assuming she doesn't leave you first.

Please, WAKE UP!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:30 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]

Launch - let's look at the facts of the case dispassionately, which is very hard to do from where you are sitting.

1) You're married for 12 years, looking toward building a family, but no children.

2) During Covid, your family fell on hard times, your wife loses her job and does not find another job (any job!), your workload goes through the roof, and you are the sole breadwinner, so all you d is work and sleep so you and your wife can have a life.

3) Soon after you move into your new home, and still during the pandemic, albeit during a lull, your wife goes on a vacation with her best friend's family which included children, and engages in a sexual affair with all of them as witness to it.

SIDEBAR: You know it was sexual because A) Lingerie = sex and B) as far as I know lending lingerie is not really a thing and C) It was going on for about a year before that.

So this not only means it was sexual, but heavily sexual. I'm sorry to say it, but it is true.

4) You let her get away with bullshit excuses for a while, but then you couldn't take it any more.

5) Since, you have been in limbo while she has since stonewalled you, disrespected you, and continued the affair.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Let's get somethings out of the way:

- The affair is still ongoing, there is no such thing as "90% no-contact"

- She is more loyal to him than you by a long shot

- She has absolutely no love or respect for you.

- She's mean. She openly conducted this affair with people you knew or could know. If you stay with her, you also have that entire family of degenerates to deal with.

Remember this: She may say she is sorry, but who she is, is based on what she does, not what she says.

Your wife is not who you think she is. She is an absolutely repugnant person.

Launch, your wife is not in the fog, you are in the fog. There is nothing to be worked out. Eve if you won, what did you win? Used goods. A nasty human being who doesn't give a shit about you. Let someone else "win her"

There is nothing to save here. I don't know why you would every consider reconciling considering you have no kids tying you to each other.

The chances of her doing this again, when you are further entangled are astronomical! I would DNA test my kids as they were born!

Don't fuck her ever again. You're risking a baby with this person! Don't do it!

I usually advise to do detective work and build a case in order to assuage any doubts you may have and to shut down gaslighting. Not worth it in this case. What you need to do is serve her divorce papers.

And you should do it fast and unexpectedly so she can get stung by her behavior. Then expose her cheating to everyone you both know so she can live with that reputation.

Do these things and you'll feel so much better, quickly.

Her actions are actually very bold. She went on a family vacation with an entire family and served as wife with one of their members. An entire family knows of the affair. It's not a secret.

You're dealing with a lunatic here. She's not hiding the affair with everybody. She's only hiding it from you. Please wake up and see the real person she is.

She's no longer your wife. She is already the wife of her friend's brother, she already did her part with him. They're just biding their time to be together. You're not even her plan B. She's just staying with you for the moment for security. You provide the security the other guy provides the thrills. Perfect world for her. But once you remove your equation, she's got nothing. She doesn't realize it because she's living in a dream world right now. She gets to have a house to live in. She gets a new man to serve her carnal needs. Happy life for her.

All the best!

[This message edited by beb252 at 7:56 AM, Friday, August 6th]

And she continues to be annoyed to have the conversation.

Launch, you don't need to have more talks, you need to ACT !

Is this whole shit acceptable for you?

If this is unacceptable, don't act as if it was acceptable!

She spent another night of mostly denials, and admitted to slightly more than the past. Remorse is still non existent. And she continues to be annoyed to have the conversation

Typical cheater behavior.

Doesn’t mean you have to tolerate or accept it.

I hope you are at least doing the hard 180. Google it if you need to.

Cheaters don’t want to discuss anything b/c they want the marriage snd the affair (in most cases). The cheater counts on the betrayed to do nothing or not make waves so they can continue the affair.

Google affair fog - the cheater mindset of thinking the other man or woman is the best thing to come along in awhile and believes this is what the cheater’s life is missing.

You need to take action or you will be living with a remorseless cheating spouse. Ask me how I know.

Doing the 180 in part means not accepting anything from her. Make your own food. Clean your own dishes. Wash your own clothes separately. And provide no service to her. Do not make her food or do any of those other things for her.

As for your wife, it’s probably times to stop asking questions you know she won’t answer.

Instead make a declarative statement and then stop talking to her altogether.

Something like this will work:

”If you weren’t happy with the marriage you should have come to me and said unless we get help and work through changes you will be leaving. The absolutely worst things to do is start a relationship with someone else and start an affair with them.

Then stop talking to her. Continue the 180. And start the legal process that will take months to finally end the marriage.

If she decides finally to get her head out of her ass you can monitor the work she does to rebuild even while uou are divorcing. My suggestion would be to complete the process and if someday down the road you want to try again, after she’s done years of self analysis with professionals to change who she is, then you can decide that then.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:09 AM, August 6th (Friday)]

I don't understand if she has already admitted that it was also physical or not

She has denied anything physical., has admitted to an E/A. I get the sense that she is just trying to buy time. Constant mixed signals.

Thank you everyone. Signing the retainer today.

She has denied anything physical., has admitted to an E/A. I get the sense that she is just trying to buy time. Constant mixed signals.

She is lying to protect herself from dealing with reality. I am glad to see your eyes are opening. When THEIR problems are a secret that we keep, it keeps our minds all screwed up. I am glad you posted here. You may find you are not behaving as you thought you would. You are dealing with a lot of shock and trauma. Reach out here and to some people in real life. She packed lingerie and was gone overnight. She 100% had sex. It is easy to believe their lies because we so badly want to. It is cruel for her to take advantage of your love and former trust of her. See her for who she is. Make some space. It was easier to deal with reality when my WS wasn't in my face 24/7. They look and sound like the person we loved so much. But that person is gone.

Thank you everyone. Signing the retainer today.

Good job, keep moving forward.

She arranged a vacation under false pretenses. Inform her that everyone (and you) assumes they had sex until she takes a polygraph proving otherwise.

It's not appropriate to give her time to decide. A committed faithful spouse doesn't need to think about it.

Right now you are her Plan B (her safety net if the OM doesn't marry her). She's buying time waiting for the OM to commit to her.

IMO, they had sex (that's what adults do on vacation).... she now thinks she's in love ... and now she's waiting for him.

It's not likely he wants to marry her (she's a cheater).

Although it's painful, the sooner you take action the sooner you exit from the storm - and the sooner her little fantasy world blows up.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 9:49 AM, August 6th (Friday)]

She has denied anything physical., has admitted to an E/A. I get the sense that she is just trying to buy time. Constant mixed signals.

Thank you everyone. Signing the retainer today.

Proud of you.

We all know that women don't buy lingerie to talk. We also don't lend it to our friends, because EW.

Batten down the hatches. It's about to get real.

I found that an affair serves as a kind of litmus test for our value systems.

Paradoxically, we rarely practice the kind of meta reflections in long term relationships to continuously update each other on what is truly important to us in our lives.
We THINK we are on the same plane, we hope we have an intrinsic understanding, but often those are much more superficial and circumstantial than we want to believe.

In the affair process two things reveal our moral fibre: the affair itself and the way we react to and work with the pain we have caused.

Our willingness to own our actions, be transparent, transcend our limitations and work on ourselves after the infidelity reflects EXACTLY our stance towards the really important questions and decisions in life per se.
So, all ethical judgements and immediate pain aside: Do you want to build a life with someone who deals with their own shortcomings by pretending they do not exist? Who does not communicate her feelings but rather seeks outlets that solve nothing and hurt their partner? Who has no interest to dig into the roots of her emotional deficits and grow as a result?

I have asked my WS all these questions after he too apologized and then wanted to get back to normal. I told him that I do understand his reasons for the affair (which I did and do), but what I would NEVER understand and accept is his unwillingness to treat it as an indicator for the necessity to work on himself and us.
Which he did.

I habe not fully gained my trust back, but I respect him again for the labour of love he committed himself too.
We have worked to establish what set of values we want to live by and how we want to get there. And through all the suffering it is a reciprocal process of joy.

In essence: Holding on through the pain and doubt is worth it if they and you are willing to do the hard and challenging work; if your set of values concerning your future life and partnership are existentially compatible; and if they actively cherish the opportunity to grow.

THEY need to want to do that from intrinsic motivation - out of the heartfelt desire to be a reliable and worthwhile partner.

If none of the above applies, it might be time to move on to someone more compatible.

She packed lingerie for an emotional affair with this scumbag?

She went on vacation with this sleaze for an emotional affair?

She's been in a year+ emotional affair with this degenerate?

Let me ask you this: As a man, would you have a year long, trip taking, lingerie in the suitcase relationship with a married woman who you aren't fucking?

Not only is she betraying you, she's insulting your intelligence!

***

Dude. You need to shut down her bullshit, and honestly, show some anger in order to slow her roll.

***

Others have pointed out that she could have caught and passed on an STD to you.

I would like to point out that she has also been potentially exposing you to the Covid pandemic.

You need to see just how much she does not give a shit about you.

It's astounding.

Brother, you gotta nut up and show her you are not her doormat. Take action now, even if it isn't divorce papers, turn your back on her, tell her to leave. She really isn't your wife right now anyway.

Sorry for the harsh words but that's the reality.

Good luck.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 4:22 PM, Friday, August 6th]