SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m lucky I found this site early on, thank you to everyone who has contributed here. All the collective experiences have made me stronger. I’ll jump right in.

2.5 months ago, my wife and I bought our dream home, I. Our dream neighborhood, near family, the kind of home we have talked about for years. A little over a year ago, my wife lost her job due to covid, and I had a promotion that I was expecting hung up for the same reasons. This meant that I was effectively straddling two roles, and transitioning to a wfh environment. I’m in one of those industries where the office days are long to begin with, and the client demands are never ending. Add doing a second job (the one I was hoping to get) with out additional resources, and it meant that I have basically lived by my laptop 16-17hours a day for 15 months. The stress was taxing, trying to keep us on track was taxing, and frankly, there wasn’t much time to do much of anything through the pandemic. When we bought the house, and moved out of our small NYC apartment I had a huge sense of relief and feeling that “we made it, finally things are looking up”

3 weeks after we moved in, my wife had taken a trip with her best friends family, her friend, their teenage son and nephew, her friends husband, and her friends brother. I found lingerie in her luggage when she got home, including some I hadn’t seen before, and confronted her about it.

She went into deny deny deny, and the explanations she did give didn’t make much sense. “I let my friend borrow it because her and her husband were going through a rough patch”. None of it added up, and I started digging. Found her journal, which pretty clearly indicated she had begun an affair with her friends brother shortly after she lost her job about a year ago. Confronted her about this, more lies, she told me it happened a year ago, it was never physical Etc.

Fast forward a couple weeks, and I catch her lying about going to lunch with her sister. She was out to lunch with her friends brother, and saw her give him a “goodbye kiss” in the parking lot. Confronted her on this one too, said it’s either the affair or we try to work it out, but there’s no in between and to be no contact. She stormed off for a few hours and came back and said she is going to cut it off, and she doesn’t want to throw away everything we built together over the past 12 years.

It’s been about a month since that day, and I have yet to get her to tell me the whole truth, even when confronted with evidence that conflicts with her story. Everything seems perfectly fine as long as I don’t try to discuss the affair, or the hurt she has caused. She’s acting the part of the good wife, but not giving me anything I need for me to heal. Those conversations turn into blaming me for “being too focused on work”.

My preference is to work it out, but my question is, how long should I give her to come out with the truth and actually start to show that she cares she hurt me? It’s pretty clear she’s still in the affair fog, and I’m trying to be patient. I believe she has cut it off for the past month (Not 100%, but maybe 90%) , but is that enough for now? My patience is wearing thin. Would love to hear from folks with experience navigating the affair fog. I tend to make decisions rather methodically, but once I decide, I act quickly. I’m fighting my own nature right now, but want to make sure my pride doesn’t cause me future regret.

Sorry to see you here.

You are about to get a ton of advice.

First - This is not your fault and certainly not the fault of your work. You were providing a roof over her head and a comfortable lifestyle. As many are going to say - what happens within the marriage is 50/50. When someone steps outside and has an affair it is 100% on them.

The biggest question here is is this a deal breaker. Yes, she cheated. Yes, she lied about it. Yes, she is still stonewalling you regarding information. Yes, she still doesn't want to let you talk about it.

Has she gone NC with the POSOM? Does POSOM have a family other than the enabling brother? If so, blow it up. Tell their entire family.

I put up with a lot from my WW in the early stages and made mistakes in how I handled her EA but if it had been a PA that is my deal breaker. What is yours?

I've been where you are at, I know how much it sucks and I really feel and can relate to what you are going through.

Like you, I also did the pick me dance for a few weeks after D-Day with predictable results.

Then I decided to start listening to people here and demand that my wife come clean immediately or else it was straight to D: a detailed timeline, access to any and all device information, willingness to take a polygraph, no contact with OM whatsoever.

And that's when things started to change.

Your WW doesn't feel any need to be honest with you right now because she has you and the OM on a string. Take that away from her as soon as you can and grab your dignity back. I promise you won't regret it.

And if she doesn't want to do that, then it becomes a very easy path to D for you. Meet with an attorney and see what needs to be done.

I'll also let you know that even if you reconcile, your marriage will never be the same. It will take years just for some semblance of normalcy to return and that is with a truly remorseful WW that really wants to change.

The odds are not great unfortunately which is why people here rarely caution someone against D- I don't think I've ever seen someone decide to D over an affair that regretted it.

I'm sure others here will be able to give you even better and more eloquent advice than I have.

[This message edited by Mark6 at 4:00 PM, Monday, August 9th]

Never understood how a man can tolerate being around a woman who cheated and refuses to come clean. You actually need to send her to her parents or you leave and refuse any contact with her to give yourself time to process. Your uncertainty of her not having contact means she is still in contact with him. Also, it was physical and you know it. Go gray rock on her and no contact with her. Her family needs to know as well as her friends. VAR in the car, as well as a FPS tracker. Apparently you have not provided her with consequences for her actions. The brother, you need a very serious talk with him and the possible consequences for what he has done to your family. Not suggesting physical confrontation, but wouldn’t say no. Good luck for this shit show you are living. For me, one of us would be gone for awhile.

You cannot fix this without both of you 100% onboard. Right now she isn't. She may never get there. Add it that her best friend aided and abetted the affair and that's an added problem. You should really be prepared for D. Visit a lawyer or few and see what that looks like for you.

If you want to save the M, it's realistic to wait six months to let things settle. If you are in the same spot then, it's time to start moving away from R. It's also realistic to set parameters. Like full timeline and admission. Backed by polygraph. NC with AP. Cutting out anyone, like the BFF, that were not friends to the marriage by enabling or not discouraging the affair. Those requirements are generally considered minimums of the WS for R. If she is unwilling or able to accept those conditions, moving towards D is your better bet. NY has a separation time requirement. Start the clock. If she steps out of the fog and shows true remorse, you can stall the divorce at any time.

Thanks to all your early replies. Great community here.

I am trying to avoid the “pick me” dance. Implemented a 180, the past month I’ve focused on spending more time with my parents and sister, and reconnected with college friends including my best friend since the second grade.

I’ve been to the gym to “get the demons out” for a couple hours 6x a week. Mentally, I’m prepared for divorce and by nature of my job, have a network of attorneys that I’ve already had consults with. I’ve not seen much from her Aside from being home more to tell me that she has had any sort of turning point.

I want to see if her behavior changes. And understand that even if it does, it’s a steep hill. Just wondering how long before I call it and do what is necessary

It’s been about a month since that day, and I have yet to get her to tell me the whole truth, even when confronted with evidence that conflicts with her story. Everything seems perfectly fine as long as I don’t try to discuss the affair, or the hurt she has caused. She’s acting the part of the good wife, but not giving me anything I need for me to heal. Those conversations turn into blaming me for “being too focused on work”.

Typical DARVO, with the rugsweeping, and reversing roles of victim and perpetrator. I went through almost the identical, lies until confronted with facts. This lasted for months before her version of the story matched the facts I knew (some I didn't disclose). I know some don't believe in 'baiting" tactics, but I think it's fair enough to say that you know the entire truth is not out there and it's 100% up to her to do a full disclosure.

So essentially, your WW got a year vacation, while you worked two jobs, then blamed you for not providing the attention she needed? Seems like you had a plan for short term pain (not seeing her as much as you'd like) for long term financial stability and the life you two had planned. Hmmm...so that makes you the villain? No, I won't agree.

Someone here often uses the analogy of a wayward committing arson on the house, the house may have some leaky gutters and a toilet that runs, but the wayward wants to focus on the gutters and toilet and not the house that is nearly gutted by their arson. I'm sure I didn't convey it as well, but you get the point. The priority is truth and trust. Your WW needs to pull her head out of her arse and begin to give you the truth, followed by transparency and actions that build trust.

But you know this, you're wondering how long to give her. For some of us it's: how much abuse can I take? This was me and I am nobodies judge.

Others are able to do a 180, focus on themselves, separate/file divorce, disclose to others, and then let the WW decide how they deal with consequences. I've come to believe that many waywards make a determination (deliberate or following their feelings): Are the consequences of forcing my betrayed spouse to rugsweep better or worse for me than the consequences of working on myself, being honest, and transparent.

This may sound harsh, but it rings true in story after story. Not many of us are capable of the latter, we feel are waywards have it them to become honest and transparent. Perhaps we believe in therapy, or the power of our prayers (I do believe in prayer, or that our visible pain will awaken their empathy. But then, over months (and sometimes years) the betrayed determine their waywards are very similar to the others.

Best of luck, I know its tough, but consider 180 and proceeding toward D. This is just my opinion, but I've come to believe consequences are a language all waywards speak. It may be the only language that compels them to do the work.

If you choose some other timing and some other methods, you'll have support.

A divorce takes a long time. Like a year. If she decides that she wants to seek the gift of R during that time, she can come to you and offer transparency, etc. If she doesn't offer that up to you voluntarily, you have nothing to work with. Don't turn yourself into a marriage cop. Waste of time.

I am trying to avoid the “pick me” dance. Implemented a 180, the past month I’ve focused on spending more time with my parents and sister, and reconnected with college friends including my best friend since the second grade.

I’ve been to the gym to “get the demons out” for a couple hours 6x a week. Mentally, I’m prepared for divorce and by nature of my job, have a network of attorneys that I’ve already had consults with. I’ve not seen much from her Aside from being home more to tell me that she has had any sort of turning point.

I did all this while waiting on WW. In retrospect, all I was doing was keeping myself healthy enough to withstand her abuse. Can you heal with her current behavior and lack of empathy or are you simply staying mentally fit enough to withstand the abuse?

She is rugsweeping, minimizing, and blameshifting.

All three are not going to help you move toward R.

You are only 90% sure she cut it out. Did she send a no-contact letter to her boyfriend in front of you then block his number and all social media?

Is she giving you full electronic transparency (email, social, phone access, gps location on)?

Have you asked for a complete written timeline of the affair, with a (optional on your level of comfort) polygraph to confirm?

When you do ask for these thing set an explicit due date for acceptance. Otherwise she will drag her feet and try to wait you out. Ask me how I know.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 1:46 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]

Fantastic points for all. Sometimes I trick myself into thinking I’m being to harsh by expecting things to change quickly. This is a good reminder that without establishing consequences, I’m just inviting continued bad behavior.

I have not talked to her family yet, I will, at this point I have nothing to lose.

For my 180, part of that is building myself back up after a miserable year, my work life balance is better now, and it was needed regardless. Part of that 180 is just channeling my anger into something physical, so that I’m being productive about it instead of just pacing about the house.

how long should I give her to come out with the truth and actually start to show that she cares she hurt me?... My patience is wearing thin.

My situation is different in that my wife didn't withhold details, but in every other way she was defiant, defensive, uncooperative, aloof, difficult, etc. This was 10 months ago, and while she is being nicer and I believe wants to stay M, she is yet to really commit to R. Everything else comes first.

So it took me about 10 months of her passive inaction for me to give up. They say everybody has their limits. My place now is gathering up the stones to D.

My limit is about 10 months. How long do you think yours will be?

It sounds like the BF/OM's sister knows about and probably enabled the A. I would demand NC with her. You're going to get a LOT of pushback about that, I assume, but since she's the OM's sister, she's got to go. Your W may not agree to that. It might be a deal breaker.

I believe she has cut it off for the past month (Not 100%, but maybe 90%) , but is that enough for now?

I wouldn't stand for anything less than 100% NC with the entire family. Now.

My preference is to work it out, but my question is, how long should I give her to come out with the truth and actually start to show that she cares she hurt me?

I would tell her once that I would prefer to R, but cannot R with her while she's in contact with the OM and his family, blame-shifting, and refusing to do what I need to heal.

I would continue the 180 and get my ducks in a row for D. Detach from her. Let her feel what it's like to lose her H. Do not have sex with her. Do not be intimate with her in any way. No cute little trips to the farmers market together. No vacations together. No sitting on the couch together watching your favorite show. Treat her like you would the clerk at the grocery store - cordial but distant.

ETA: I would also tell her that she needs to get a job ASAP. Don't care where. Don't care if it's in her field. Just do something.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 2:08 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]

How long is long enough? I'd say now is enough.

She hasn't given you anything to work with and you can't reconcile while she's still in the affair.

She has to go totally No Contact with him.

She needs individual counseling to figure out why she cheated.

She needs to allow you to vent your feelings and be open to anything you need to talk about.

This was NOT your fault, and she needs to own it 100%.

Anything less than the above warrants a visit to an attorney.

Launch, did you watch her send the OM a NC message? Do you have access to her phone, email, and social media accounts to ensure than she is not still talking to him? If not, it's possible that she has taken this underground by being more careful about when she goes out or she may have told him to wait her her while things cool off with you.

A divorce takes a long time. Like a year. If she decides that she wants to seek the gift of R during that time, she can come to you and offer transparency, etc. If she doesn't offer that up to you voluntarily, you have nothing to work with. Don't turn yourself into a marriage cop. Waste of time.

I like this advice. Why can't you just file and not go through with it if she wakes up?

You get to decide how your own life will look. But for me, FULL disclosure, FULL no contact and answering all of your questions would get us to the starting line.

Sounds like this was a planned vacation with her best friend's family. Gross! No contact with them, too!

Does your wife work now? Might want to add get a job to the list if not.

It sounds like you need to come up with a list of non negotiables. I am so sorry you are here.

I don’t have access to her phone or email. I’ve asked. She refused. Many will say that’s enough to divorce. And I agree. Something made me hesitate when signing the retainer for my attorney.

12 years, and up until 9 weeks ago, I thought we were moving to the burbs and starting a family. It’s a huge whipsaw in a short time frame, so I’m trying to remove the emotion and just make the best decision going forward.

Right now I feel used, that I’m the stability guy while she went out and had her fun. And before this happened, if someone would ask me what would be a dealbreaker, this would be it. Old me would have had a quick trigger and been on to the next thing.

In love with her. But realizing I’m in love with the person she used to be, and this current person I live with is not that person anymore.

Don't wait around expecting her to do anything.

In a few days she might acquiesce and offer up her phone or email after a deep scrubbing.

Has she given you a timeline? Have both of you had STD tests? Tell her you both need them as you don't know how many other side-pieces the OM has and you don't trust her very much any more.

She brought new lingerie to wear (for a while) with him, not you him.

Is she still in the fog or does she want to keep the M? Is she doing anything to get out of infidelity? Still in contact with him by other means like Kik, Snap, burner phone?

Ask her to go to her parents while you decide what YOU want to do about the divorce or reconciliation.

You need be willing to lose the marriage in order to be strong and save it. IMO it don't look good at this time. She's in deep.

Download the divorce papers from the county to see what is involved. Fill them out...

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 2:23 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]

You need be willing to lose the marriage in order to be strong and save it.

This right here. 100%. Sign the retainer. Start the process.

I don’t have access to her phone or email. I’ve asked. She refused.

Again, sign the retainer.

She may never do what you need to R, but she's definitely not going to do anything good while you're waffling.

And before this happened, if someone would ask me what would be a dealbreaker, this would be it. Old me would have had a quick trigger and been on to the next thing.

You just had your idea of a family and future ripped away from you by your wife. The reality of these things is often a little different than we imagine before they happen.

As you make this decision, do remember to keep this in mind. It's entirely possible your loss aversion is preventing you from following through on your core beliefs. The alternative is that you recognize you are more flexible in being able to offer reconciliation and potential forgiveness than your previously thought you were. This can cause a lot of internal conflict and a feeling of a loss of integrity.