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Ultimatums?

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 HataBlocka (original poster New Member #74208) posted at 5:36 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

So my husband’s affair was almost 2 years ago. He showed guilt and remorse and admitted immediately once confronted. Initually, I had told him I needed him to #1 give me his social media password. I have his phone password but he has never shared that. Note. No cheating that I’m aware of has been done, utilizing Facebook or any social media app….but it’s the principle.

#2. Get tested.

So it’s been almost 2 years and he has yet to do either.

He HAS continued to cheat, in ways…since then, emotionally thru messaging past hookups, prior girlfriends etc…up to just a few months ago. Every time I have found out, (by checking his text messages) he has been angry, then later, apologetic.

Every time we argue, it all comes back to the fact that he refuses to give me his damn Facebook password. It’s SOOOO dumb. But it’s important to me that he be completely transparent. I feel that I haven’t been able to heal and my healing process has been set back by every “new” emotional affair. Disrespectful texts etc seem to hurt far worse than the initial affair because they come AFTER he was so sorry and they just don’t seem to stop.

I have realized and he has basically admitted that he has a problem with addiction to the attention. He doesn’t necessarily follow thru with anything (minus the first affair) but he likes the attention from women more than he cares to respect ME. I’ve told him he’s pathetic, that it’s embarrassing, etc…I have begged him for that password so I can establish some sort of trust with him several times. He refuses. He likes his “privacy” and feels like I would constantly hound him and interrogate him about everyone. To be clear. He HAS access to my social media but he, the cheater, refuses to give me his. He claims I can look at his phone anytime I want but anytime I do or I look over his shoulder he gets angry.

Most recent blowout. I was looking over his shoulder at his phone and he got irritated. We had a terrible argument. I told him I have to give him an ultimatum about the password and he says he refuses and if it comes to that I won’t like the results. When we argue, he threatens to leave and j beg him to stay. I know it’s pathetic. He even says it is. He says he is pretty much done. He is not happy and hates his depressed I am. BUT I am depressed because of his actions. I will give him that. I am and have been depressed. But it’s because I haven’t been able to move forward with healing. I don’t think I can without total transparency from him.

So my question is: do I keep pushing the issue of the Facebook password and he says no so he leaves me? And I’m heartbroken with knowing the end result of our marriage is that I didn’t mean more than a password? Or do I forget the damn password, let it go, try to find other ways he can prove that I can trust him? And not let something stupid be the death of our marriage?

posts: 5   ·   registered: Apr. 14th, 2020
id 8675368
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This0is0Fine ( Member #72277) posted at 5:46 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Digital transparency is part of the bare minimum.

He cheated. Right to privacy is gone. Forever.

Demands/ultimatums for R are a natural consequence of his vow breaking.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1326   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8675370
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 5:54 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Be firm on your stand about what has been discussed prior. He's not doing his part on the agreement. Either he gives his password to all his social media accounts or you let go.

All the best!

posts: 375   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8675371
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RocketRaccoon ( Member #54620) posted at 5:55 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Why does her need to leave you, and not YOU leave him?

By having a mindset that he should take the lead, you are just enabling his behaviour even more.

So far, all your 'ultimatums' are just words that disappear, as there are zero consequences. He knows that he does not need to do anything you lay down, as you will still be around for him.

The WS should be the one chasing the BS. Once the CS chases the WS, it is a lost cause, as this just proves to the WS that they have the power and control of the relationship, and as such, can do anything they want.

Gently now, but if you want respect from others, you will need to respect yourself first. Respect yourself enough to take the necessary steps to protect yourself, as your WS sure as heck would not protect you.

I keep posting this like a parrot, but I believe it is true:

The amount of effort a WS puts into the relationship, indicates how much they value the relationship.

Little effort = Little value, Max effort = Max value.

(Note: your WS did not show 'guilt and remorse'. He only showed guilt....)

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 888   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8675372
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LizM ( Member #48659) posted at 6:05 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Ultimatums are worthless if you can’t back them up.

He knows you don’t want him to leave and you won’t divorce him, so he is free to disrespect you as much as he wants. And YES, not giving you that password is very disrespectful, given that he is a cheater. It’s not a stupid thing to end the marriage over.

I’m in the same boat! It’s a nonstop cycle where periodically WH will do something shitty, and I complain, but it’s a waste of time because he knows I won’t leave, and the cycle continues.

Your WH would probably be doing you a favor if he left at this point, since you can’t pull the trigger on divorce yourself.

The advice I’ve been given here, which fits you too I think, is to work on yourself, make yourself stronger, and get to a place where you feel confident that you can divorce him if the disrespect continues. Do not waste your time and energy trying to change his mind or convince him to do anything, because he doesn’t take you seriously. Just work on yourself.

posts: 841   ·   registered: Jul. 20th, 2015   ·   location: Louisville
id 8675374
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Cooley2here ( Member #62939) posted at 7:01 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

RR is on target. Every day that he shuts you down he is abusing you. Do you want to live like this the rest of your life? It’s your only life. Thinkn about it this way. You own a store that has been robbed. You know who did it but you leave the door unlocked and you keep getting robbed. Does that make any kind of sense? Letting him treat you this way is being robbed EVRY SINGLE DAY. You deserve better. You deserve peace.

To thine own self be true. Shakespeare

posts: 2903   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8675379
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Felix12306 ( Member #78827) posted at 7:24 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

It really still sounds like unfortunately he's hiding a lot. The fact that he won't give you complete transparency and is threatening to leave you says it all. I know it's hard but maybe you need to be the one to walk away to show him what he's missing. Marriage counseling and individual counseling for both of you should be non-negotiable as well in your terms. Don't feel pathetic. I definitely went through that why am I the one begging you to stay when you cheated. Things have gotten better we started marriage and individual counseling. And I have complete access to everything on his phone his Facebook is logged in on my phone I have his GPS I have his email passwords. He has no access to any money that I wouldn't know he spent.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 10. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but just found that out on 6/18/21.

posts: 102   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8675380
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Felix12306 ( Member #78827) posted at 7:24 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

It really still sounds like unfortunately he's hiding a lot. The fact that he won't give you complete transparency and is threatening to leave you says it all. I know it's hard but maybe you need to be the one to walk away to show him what he's missing. Marriage counseling and individual counseling for both of you should be non-negotiable as well in your terms. Don't feel pathetic. I definitely went through that why am I the one begging you to stay when you cheated. Things have gotten better we started marriage and individual counseling. And I have complete access to everything on his phone his Facebook is logged in on my phone I have his GPS I have his email passwords. He has no access to any money that I wouldn't know he spent.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 10. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but just found that out on 6/18/21.

posts: 102   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8675381
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sillyoldsod ( Member #43649) posted at 9:02 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

The amount of effort a WS puts into the relationship, indicates how much they value the relationship.

Little effort = Little value, Max effort = Max value.

This^^^

You know the answer as to how much your WS values the marriage. He has shown you!

I told him I have to give him an ultimatum about the password and he says he refuses and if it comes to that I won’t like the results.

Gently but...WTF!

Best wishes HataBlocka.

I do hope in a few years time you're able to come back here, re-read this thread and ask yourself 'what on earth was I thinking'!

I've never met a sociopath I didn't like.

posts: 650   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2014   ·   location: UK
id 8675384
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sillyoldsod ( Member #43649) posted at 9:26 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

HataBlocka, PLEASE do yourself a huge favour and listen to the Stan Tatkin podcast which can be found on the 'Finally! Therapists that get what a BS goes through' thread (it's the last link posted by Shellofme) which is in the General forum.

(((HataBlocka)))

I've never met a sociopath I didn't like.

posts: 650   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2014   ·   location: UK
id 8675390
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 9:39 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

To me the password isn’t the real issue.

He could give you his password and then tomorrow start using a new account, or Instagram, or switch to Twitter or SnapChat or use a secret online forum or or or or…

If he’s intent on remaining where he is he can. The problem is that he is still in infidelity mindset. He isn’t taking any steps to get out of that mindset, and by your own admission is still contacting old hookups and girlfriends and such.

I hate ultimatums unless you are willing to stand by them. I prefer people use a more open form. Like if you tell your husband “Give me the password or I leave” then you better be ready to leave once he refuses. IMHO a better wording would be something along the lines of “You being so secretive about FB and me constantly being afraid you are using it to cheat eats away at my belief that this marriage can survive. At some point I simply wont put any more effort in remaining married, and once that happens it will be hard to convince me otherwise”. The later gives you more leeway to decide when that “some point” is.

I think you need to take some hard decisions and set some measurable goals. The hard part is probably deciding what to do if he doesn’t meet those goals.

Would he be willing to go to counseling with you? Sometimes the WS needs to hear from someone else that remaining in contact with past hookups is wrong and destroys trust.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8675392
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The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 11:08 AM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Stop 🛑. Please stop this cycle you are in. You can see it is mentally affecting you in a negative way.

He’s not going to be honest or transparent. He’s already proven that. He is not giving you anything to work with.

Stop bring the marriage police snd/or his mother. That’s not a marriage that’s a life sentence of living in hell in my opinion.

You only have two choices:

Accept his behavior — his lying and cheating and know he will not stop trying to meet up with random women

Get yourself stronger, get yourself together and move on. Separate or Divorce OR just stop this cycle wherein you are torturing yourself. You are the only one suffering here.

He doesn’t care about you or your marriage enough to want to change. He doesn’t get it nor does he care to get it. He doesn’t want to be monogamous AND his obsession or addiction to this behavior is not going to stop.

Deal with him the same way you would an addict or alcoholic.

It’s time to save yourself. You need to come first. Get yourself some good counseling. Stop drowning in this situation and get yourself emotional support.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:10 AM, July 14th (Wednesday)]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10519   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8675402
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BluerThanBlue ( Member #74855) posted at 12:17 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Don't give him an ultimatum. You cannot control what he does or doesn't do. You can only control what you will and won't accept.

You take the information that you have and the behavior that you observe and you decide if you can live the rest of your life this way.

If you can't, then you end the relationship.

If you refuse to the end the relationship, then you need to make peace with the fact that how he treats you now is how you will be treated forever.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:19 AM, July 14th (Wednesday)]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, tone, and rewording. I'm not being sneaky; I'm just critical of my own writing.

posts: 471   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8675406
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Justsomeguy ( Member #65583) posted at 2:57 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

As the old saying goes, never pull a gun on a man you're not prepared to shoot. You are using the security guard approach to ultimatums, stop orc I'll be forced to sat stop again.

File and mean it, not to save your marriage, but to save your soul.

Me:53STBXWW:51DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off.Denied having an affair in court papers.

posts: 1110   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8675429
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jadedangel ( Member #26979) posted at 3:51 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Why does her need to leave you, and not YOU leave him?

This right here. He has refused to do what you need. He has continued to receive ego kibbles from other women.

Why do you stay?

Divorced 2007.
EXWH died 2011
Remarried 2018!

posts: 637   ·   registered: Dec. 30th, 2009   ·   location: Central City
id 8675444
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twicefooled ( Member #42976) posted at 4:17 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

((((hugs))) this stuff is crazy making. My (now ex) husband had this problem too and I made it so he was no longer my problem. I couldn't live giving him all the power over my life by waiting to see what HE did next. I took back my power.

do I keep pushing the issue of the Facebook password and he says no so he leaves me? And I’m heartbroken with knowing the end result of our marriage is that I didn’t mean more than a password? Or do I forget the damn password, let it go, try to find other ways he can prove that I can trust him? And not let something stupid be the death of our marriage?

Gently, he killed the marriage as you knew it already and he continues to throw gasoline on the fire by continuing with his behaviour. He already treats you as less than his password.

He should be doing everyting possible to fix this marriage, but he isn't. He is more concerned with his own gratification than he is in being a safe partner for you.

May 29 2021 ***reclaimed myself and decided to delete my story with my ex because I'm now 7 years free from him and mentally healthier than I've been in years.

*********When you know better, you can do better*************

posts: 408   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2014
id 8675456
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HellFire ( Member #59305) posted at 4:32 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

You know he is cheating. So what will having his password change? You have his phone password, and you keep finding messages, and know he is having affairs. So you get his Facebook PW..and find the same thing. Then what?

He is an abusive serial cheater. He's cruel.

YOU need stop this. He won't. He's been clear about that. YOU need to remove yourself, and file.

If he leaves..so what? You are losing an abuser. Your life will be so much better without him.

You don't love him. You love who you want him to be. THIS is who he is. This horrible serial cheater. What's to love there?

posts: 3706   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8675459
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DIFM ( Member #1703) posted at 4:43 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

HataBlocka, I am sorry you have to be here. Take the advice you get here. Everyone has been through it.

Your topic header is probably not really what is the issue. Based on your details, it seems likely that you know that ultimatums are a moot point to your cheating husband. He makes no attempt to hide his position on your so called ultimatum: he doesn't care and he knows that you do. That is the issue, not a so called ultimatum.

He has no respect for you or the M. That part you know and is clear. You desperately, and then more desperately want him to be who he isn't and your M to be what it is not. He is who he is and your M is not a place of love, contentment, and comfort.

You know he will not bow to your ultimatum and you know you will not enforce the consequences that an ultimatum requires in order to be an ultimatum. This is as much about you as it is about him. You are accepting, no, even yearning and fighting to be loved by a broken, cheating, lying, abuser.

You have to search in yourself what you want in life and who you want to be, and then make decisions that help you get there, vs crumbling under the weight of being a willing partner to his abuse.

Get out. For your sanity. For your health. Forget about the notion of ultimatums. This has nothing to do with ultimatums.

posts: 1726   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8675467
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PSTI ( Member #53103) posted at 6:15 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Ultimatums don't work. They're just the final level of trying to make rules for another human being. Rules don't work, obviously. Everyone has their own personal autonomy. If they don't actually agree to something (making it an agreement and not a rule), and have intent to follow that agreement, all a rule does is to have a way of keeping score when your partner disappoints you. It is not helpful in any way.

You cannot change another person; you can only change yourself and how you react to things.

Boundaries are what is important here. What behaviour will and won't you tolerate in a relationship?

You say you worry if you keep forcing the issue of the passwords that you're afraid he will leave you. You can't make someone want to be with you. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who repeatedly disregards your requests?

It really isn't about the password, so if this is the end of your marriage, remind yourself that. It's about your need to heal and his refusal to help you do so.

But at the end of the day, the only person you can control is yourself. What will make YOU happiest? Sometimes no options are good, but you have to pick the one that is the least stinky. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who will not provide the transparency you seek, or would you be happier starting over fresh with someone new who hasn't cheated?

Take back your control. What do you want? What are you willing to tolerate? And if a behaviour isn't working for you, instead of attempting to change your partner, the only real change you can make is removing yourself.

Me: BW, my xH left me & DS after a 14 year marriage for the AP in 2014.

Happily remarried and in an open/polyamorous relationship. DH (married 3 years) & DBF (dating 2 years). Cohabitating happily all together!! <3

posts: 698   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2016
id 8675489
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OwningItNow ( Member #52288) posted at 6:38 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021

Let me be clear: you are heartbroken about a cheating, attention seeking, disrespectful abuser leaving you??? Are you in IC for this condition?

me: BS/WS
h: WS/BS

Reject the rejector.
Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5263   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8675502
Topic is Sleeping.
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