Dude, it sounds like you wish you could have had MrF's story. You feel he is "lucky" to have a wife, in your mind, who wants to fight for him and her marriage. So what. Ask him how fortunate he feels to have his wife "only" have a previous EA, followed by both an EA and PA. I somehow doubt he thanks his lucky stars every morning.
The PA consisted of a couple of make out sessions, snd up the shirt once. POS put her hand on his crotch in the car and she pulled her hand away. All of this was confirmed by the Poly. This was an EA at its core.
Oh, so now it was a PA, but really it was only an EA "at its core". Maybe you don't mean to twist the knife, but I think he has already dealt with enough people, including his wife and mother, minimizing his pain. He doesn't need to hear that from us.
What I’m recommending is that Mr. F consider taking a temporary step back from D and look at this from 30,000 feet. He can divorce in a month, two months, 6mo this from now. Why wait and do more intense work towards R? Mr. F is angry, feels a sense of injustice, his ego has taken a hit, and he wants to punish. These are my assumptions.
Maybe he could, but he already went off alone to reflect, took stock of his life and concluded that, at this point, he no longer wants her in it. And he's "punishing" her? You know his mother said that to him already, right? He already said, in not so many words, that it cut deep. That "she didn't get it". Stop twisting the knife.
Honestly, he doesn't sound angry anymore. He sounds resigned. Like someone who has sadly concluded that his marriage must end as he doesn't want to live with his betrayer, seeing her as both the first thing he sees when he wakes up in the morning and the last thing he sees before going to sleep. He made this decision knowing he has young children who will no longer have a two-parent home, and all that entails. Who are we to challenge his resolve?
Maybe he doesn't want her following him around all day begging for forgiveness, a narcissistic act when he has told her countless times he wants to be left alone, for the express purpose of having him reassure her and comfort her. How utterly self-centered.
It’s all on her no doubt. Everyone says a BH husband needs to help heal himself alongside with his WW fixing herself and helping to heal her BH. I would say Mr F could start to heal himself within his current marriage, without immediate divorce. How would he start to heal? I would start with the consideration that rarely anything in life is simply black snd white, including his WW affair. If this was a hard core PA, I wouldn’t necessarily be saying this. This was not a PA. Even Spaceghost said that had his WW had an EA, he could have R.
Spaceghost has repeatedly said every person has their own line. We shouldn't refer to him, or anyone else, as authorities regarding a decision to D or R. That decision is intensely personal.
I used to be an ego driven, win at all costs, zero sum, highly critical, judgmental, quick to anger, black snd white kind of person with no grey. I lived like this for 50 years. It became very apparent to me that my wife, daughter, and other relationships were not going to be around too much longer if I kept this up.
And where, exactly, is the "grey" in this story. The only grey I can see is yes, she is not some caricature, some evil adulterous woman bent on destroying him while presenting herself as an angel. People are complicated but that doesn't necessarily preclude them being, or at least acting, evil either. Once again, so what, nothing she did was "grey" at all. She cheated because she wanted to, thought she could get away with it, and was at the very least oblivious, if not indifferent, to the pain it would cause MrF. And then she lied about it despite multiple chances to come clean, so long as she thought she could keep him in the dark. She called him controlling when he challenged her "friendship" after she already had made out with him. She even introduced the two of them, after she had already made out with him, and then went on to make out with him again, this time for longer with mutual groping. You may call it black and white thinking, but I would call what she did evil. The truth of matter is that this is pretty cut and dry. Whatever motivations she had to commit such acts, such as "only" wanting male attention (as if that somehow makes betrayal any better), doesn't in any way excuse, justify, or even slightly mitigate what she did. The fact it could have been worse is, I'm sure, of no comfort to MrF.
How could my WW stone cold lie to my face after I tried to talk with her in good faith multiple times? Mr F - all WW’s lie stone cold to their BH’s face. The question goes back to whether Mr. F can move beyond the black and white, see grey, and want to work with his WW for the next years to repair and R.
This right here, is nonsense. "All WWs lie MrF, just get over it. It could be worse. Think about how lucky you are. She could have been the groupie for the local sports teams. See the shades of grey. That black and white thinking is limiting. And don't just get over it, get to work. You have to guide your WW in your healing."
What a nightmare.
What you fail to grasp is that this is all on her. Sure, you say it's on her, but then go on to give advice that basically puts the responsibility for R squarely on his shoulders. You know, cause he's stuck in that "black and white thinking". It IS all on her. Not just the affair, reconciliation, and their marriage: everything. She needs to take the reigns. She needs to read the books, and apply what's in them. She needs to become a better person, one who isn't selfish and entitled. One who isn't desperately trying to preserve her wants and needs and focus on what he wants. Only then does she stand any chance of rekindling any desire he has to be with her. Even now it may be too late.
You have your life, your scars and your regrets. I empathize, but your that has nothing to do with MrF and his story. If you are going to pitch R, at least do it in a way that doesn't minimize what happened to him.
Truth be told, in a perfect world, I think it would be nice if they could reconcile. I agree that what she did is not necessarily insurmountable, for some people. He may even think that his story may suck less than some of the other members' stories here, but I wouldn't presume anything. If she did major work on herself perhaps he could come to believe and take comfort in the fact, as you say, that she really only wanted male attention and not an affair, however meaningless that distinction may be. Maybe if she could demonstrate real, selfless love, things could change. I also think, from reading MrF's posts, that getting a D is a necessary step, both in his healing and in any possible future R.
But maybe there's too much damage to recover from. I don't know and neither does anyone else, other than MrF. But I would never presume to judge his decision to D and neither should anyone else.
MrF, whether you go on that trip or not, be true to yourself. Don't be the kind of man who can't look himself in the mirror. Be proud of whatever decision you make. My prayers are with you and your family.
[This message edited by AnOminousMan at 5:46 PM, Friday, July 16th]