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No contact. Permanently. He likely realizes he fucked up leaving recordings of threats. He also realizes he lost control of you and he knows how to manipulate himself back in. Ignore ignore ignore. He doesn't actually care about you,, he is just trying to be in control. No contact will drive him crazy and help you heal.

Absolutely no question, zero response. Lawyers only, especially until all is settled.

I second the no contact. I agree as well he realizes he may have f;:ked himself over with the threats and is attempting to do damage control. He wants something from you and this is just one of his tactics to get it. The divorce isn't final yet so there is a lot on the table. He knows if he can make nice with you it would be to his advantage. Good for you getting out there and flirting it up!!! Oh did you do anything about the ppo? Sounds like he still is lacking in understanding boundaries. The fact there were flowers at your door is kinda creepy because of the fact it's from him. Be careful.

Thank you for the reminders SI! I stayed NC throughout the weekend.

Why is staying NC so difficult!? I really struggled this weekend and my thoughts wandered between wanting to know what he’s really thinking, to hoping that this is a sign that he won’t rage at me again, to thinking about my old pattern of taking the breadcrumb and wanting to forgive him, to being angry at him for not respecting my boundaries. I probably picked up my phone 10 times wanting to text my STBWX. Is it because of the trauma bond that has been created between me and him over the years? I have started to accept that I’ve been in a manipulative relationship the past couple of years, and that my STBWXs narc behaviors have been abusive and are used to manipulate and take advantage of my kindness and my forgiveness. But, it’s difficult to break the pattern.

A few of your comments stood out for me in particular.

1. @The1stWife said ‘He has to stop relying on you and your kindness. You’ve been fired as his wife. And now he has to face his life and future without you. You are not his safety net any longer.” And, “It’s merely to rid himself of any guilt. And that is no longer your job. He’s on his own. Period.”

I have always been my STBWXs safety net! I am a caretaker and am very empathetic, and he knows that about me. He wants to take advantage of my kindness and what I ‘used to’ do for him in the past. My support isn’t there for him anymore because I’ve gone greyrock and NC (and because I don’t want to give that support anymore) and he’s trying to dredge up some of that ‘supply’ from me. My STBWX wants to have his cake still, which is absolutely remarkable! He made his bed, so now he needs to face that.

One of the first things I thought when I saw the card / flowers was, ‘is this a real apology or just another manipulation?’ Because I think you are right. My STBWX definitely wants to rid himself of any guilt or responsibility so that it is easier this coming weekend to go move in with his AP. He doesn’t want to be the ‘bad guy’ and will use words and flowers to try and smooth things over. I figure he can get that support and safety net from his AP moving forward!

2. @ChamomileTea said “Remember, there are three settings for narc manipulation... charm, self-pity, and rage. He wants something.”, and, “NC = No new hurts.”

Charm, self-pity, and rage --- all three things I’ve seen from my STBWX in recent months. It’s so manipulative! I wish we could do a hard re-set on people who do this. It’s so hurtful and does so much damage to people and relationships. For me, it’s so foreign to understand how my STBWX could behave this way.

I’m so angry that I didn’t see this pattern the past 2-3 years though. I’m learning in IC that I was walking on eggshells to keep the peace and trying to fix things when he wouldn’t and ignored some red flags. Plus, I myself was just trying to keep my head above water because of 'life' happening. I know I can only learn from this and make changes in future relationships, but hindsight is always 20/20.

And I love "NC = No new hurts". ❤ It’s true! I am much stronger when I'm NC. Sort of, out of sight out of mind, and therefore I can process and deal with what I need to deal with. And if you think about it, flirting with the waiter likely would not have happened if I got the flowers before I went out with my friends.

3. @clouds777 said, “He likely realizes he fucked up leaving recordings of threats. He also realizes he lost control of you and he knows how to manipulate himself back in.” And, “He doesn’t actually care about you, he is just trying to be in control. No contact will drive him crazy and help you heal.”

Good point! Maybe he realized that leaving threatening and angry voicemails is a major screw up! So, he’s trying to ‘smooth things over’ and leverage what he knows about my pattern to make sure I don’t ‘react’ in a way that doesn’t suit his narrative.

Control – I never realized that my STBWX was controlling these past few years. Now I just can’t unsee it! He was very critical about my weight and things I did / didn’t do. It was never enough even though I was sacrificing my health for him and his wellbeing. He has been threatening these past 6 months following confrontation. He has blamed me for his mistakes and there is drama when I don’t respond right away (yet he can take however long he wants to respond). And looking back I do see that he kept a scoreboard of all the things he did ‘right’ and belittled me in the process. Looking back I’ve realized all these things were mechanisms to remain in control and to control the narrative. I mentioned this above, but I was in my own ‘fog’ and didn’t see the red flags. Now that I’ve set very hard boundaries, he can’t stand it!

4. @Bonetired said, “I agree as well he realizes he may have f;:ked himself over with the threats and is attempting to do damage control. The divorce isn't final yet so there is a lot on the table. He knows if he can make nice with you it would be to his advantage.”

Damage control is right. I’m not going to fall for it! I’m really proud of myself actually that I haven’t fallen apart and see this for what it is.

Also, what is PPO?

A quick update –

All week last week my dad / brother replaced my broken fan in the master bedroom (in advance to a very hot week here), and put in a new chandelier in my entry way. I’ve had the fan and the chandelier for awhile and it’s just collected dust. My STBXH never felt it necessary to prioritize installing them or doing any work around the house that didn't somehow benefit him! While at it, they discovered some bad electrical in the master bedroom and hallway, so they re-ran some Romex wire and taught me how to put in new plugs / light switches! I felt very accomplished. LOL.

Spent this weekend getting my garage set up now that my STBWX is out! My mom helped me de-grease / clean all the cabinets and my dad helped me belt sand the custom workbench we put in 7 years ago (to remove all the stains, glue, etc. that was on there). Then I bought myself some of the basics (wrenches, dustpan/broom, pliers, etc.) since my STBWX took the majority of the tools with him (which I was fine with). My parents got me a Shop Vac and a full set of screwdrivers (it was wrapped in Christmas paper which was hysterical and so incredibly sweet). Was able to move my extra cleaning supplies, the dog food, bird seed, etc. from the inside the house to the garage and hang all the tools on pegboard. There is a lot of space left and I don’t have everything I’ll need to do work at the house, but it’s a good start.

The second side of my fence is going in this week! It looks so beautiful. ❤

I love making the garage space more ‘me’ and doing some work on the house. It reminds me how blessed I am during such a stressful and upsetting time. I’ll never take this place for granted like he did!

And my family ... I don't know what I'd do without them. I get teary opening a screwdriver set because they know how difficult this has been and how difficult it is to start over. I can't imagine going through this process without their support.

My STBWX should be officially served this week. Preparing for the back-lash! And relying on a good quote from “Finding Nemo” to keep pushing forward. “When life gets you down, you know what you gotta do? Just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming, swimming, swimming…”

[This message edited by Venus1 at 12:52 PM, June 14th (Monday)]

I’m so angry that I didn’t see this pattern the past 2-3 years though. I’m learning in IC that I was walking on eggshells to keep the peace and trying to fix things when he wouldn’t and ignored some red flags. Plus, I myself was just trying to keep my head above water because of 'life' happening. I know I can only learn from this and make changes in future relationships, but hindsight is always 20/20.

Guuuurrrrllll. Me too on this. I did the exact. same. thing.

And you know? Once that lightbulb came on I saw just how much of my life that attitude impacted. How much of myself and my needs and wants I ignored in order to keep that peace. Hindsight being what is, I can tell you that for me it was not worth it at all.

But it's a case of when we know better, we DO better. I will make mistakes going forward, but won't make those same ones again. I will never compromise on my needs in order to serve someone else's ever again.

And yes to making the house more 'you'. I did the same thing after D and every single change I made reclaimed that space for ME.

I am sure your stbxwh will be a flaming douchehole after getting served. Just run on that assumption - plan for the worst and hope for the best. NC NC NC while you're swimming It is hard to get used to staying NC, but it is SO worth the effort.

ppo personal protective order. To protect you against threats of violence,stalking, harassment. I don't know but it seems he keeps coming around despite the fact you made it clear you don't want this. Hence the flowers left for you. The constant messaging etc... and most recently his threats to you through messages such as emails. Don't know if there is more but I'd there is don't dispose of it if you have to follow through.

Just want to say how pleased I am with you for keeping NC and seeing your Ex manipulations for what they are.

I love making the garage space more ‘me’ and doing some work on the house. It reminds me how blessed I am during such a stressful and upsetting time.

Also love hearing about how you are moving forward and taking care of yourself. Working on the house, going out with friends, flirting, mini vacations.

You are going to be fine.

It will be interesting to see what personality your Ex puts on after getting served this week.

Venus, can you get a new phone number or at least block him from calling you? You don't have children together; therefore, it's not imperative for you to be able to call each other. All correspondence pertaining to the divorce should go through your lawyer. That way, you don't have to brace yourself for his backlash every time there's a legal development... or if a bird shits on his head and he concludes that it's your fault.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 9:01 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]

Here is the crazy part of this affair crap. Not specific to just you Venus but many cheaters in general.

They choose to cheat. The betrayed finds out. Whatever transpires (reconciliation, attempt at reconciliation or no chance in hell of reconciliation) the Marriage is over.

The cheater leaves (or was planning to leave) and then the betrayed files for D.

And the cheater gets angry!! Angry 😡 that they are free to go and be with whoever they want to be with — AP or anyone or two they choose. How dare 😡 the betrayed file for D or leave them!!!!

It’s illogical. It’s draining. I will never understand it.

When I told my H (after two affairs and false R on dday2) I was D him and he had to leave he refused. ROFLMAO b/c for six months he told me he didn’t want to be married and wanted a D. So I’m handing him EXACTLY what he wanted. And then he doesn’t want it.

😡😡

Hang in there Venus. He will be permanently disconnected from you (unless he continues to try to find excuses to come back to the house). But you are killing the No Contact path! Good for you. You should be proud of how far you have come. And I love how your family is coming over to help you. 💕

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:15 AM, June 17th (Thursday)]

What a mentally draining and emotionally exhausting 24 hours! My STBWX was officially served yesterday afternoon.

My STBWX came to the house to visit the dogs (pre-arranged) a few hours after being served. He put all the dog stuff (food, crate, treats, etc) that was at his apartment in the garage, and essentially said “goodbye” to the dogs. He rang the doorbell (I was at a friends house for dinner to remain NC and avoid any confrontation after he was served) and he left me a message saying “it’s too emotional to stay” and he “wished he could say goodbye because he misses me” and “he just can’t stay here anymore”.

I learned that today he moved to *said location (out of state) … a tad earlier than expected … to start over and have a clean slate with the AP.

I guess I don’t really know how I feel today. So many emotions. Relief. Confused. Angry. Sad. Glad. Numb. And I’m just flat out tired! I didn't know I could feel so relieved and so profoundly sad all at the same time.

It has always been my STBWXs choice to be a good husband, be a good 'dad' to the dogs, to leave or stay and work on our marriage. It’s also his choice to treat me with respect / kindness. I do feel lighter without him this past month or so, but it is difficult to know that he’s been lying for so long and been verbally/emotionally abusive. It’s so much to take in in such a short period of time. Breakups are difficult regardless, but how he’s treated me the past six months has caused so much hurt.

It’s funny, I sometimes wish things were so different and that this never happened, yet I also don’t wish things were different. I’ve learned more from this than I really realize just yet and am stronger because of it. It’s another stepping stone to make me an even better person than I already am. And I know now without question … I’m more than the bad things that have happened to me! So is it weird to say I’m hopeful for what this has taught me?

My therapist told me yesterday that I will feel profound grief the next month or so. That I’ve done so well to prepare for this moment and that I’m strong enough to deal with it. So I’m a little nervous about the emotions and the ups and downs. Anyone get hit by a second of grief? Feels like getting hit by a bus!

I can’t thank all of you enough for the advice and unwavering support these past six months! Once I’ve processed all these feelings (in a couple days) I’ll post more. But man do I wish I had a reset button.

How did you feel when your WH / WW was served?

Update 18June: Last night I had a dream about my STBWX and I cuddling and laughing in bed! Something we did quite often. I even woke up feeling like his whiskers brushed against my neck. What the h3ll is that all about!? I balled my eyes out for 20-30 min before dragging myself out of bed to start the day because the reality is that he likely woke up that way with his AP. I know that's very dramatic and a 'victim' mentality, but I wish the movie reel would stop! I'm sure this is some twisted way of my subconscious reminding me that I still love my STBWX from two years ago and I miss him, but there is so much melancholy that manifests around dreaming about him.

[This message edited by Venus1 at 12:18 PM, June 18th (Friday)]

Hi Venus-

I haven't had my WH served, so I can't answer your question. However, I have been following your story and your development has been incredible. This internet stranger is so proud of you and how strong you have become.

Venus,

All you have to remember is that he is with a camgirl. It never ends well and would fail rather quickly and spectacularly.

Sending you strengths.

Venus, Here's my theory about your dream for what it's worth. When someone loses a limb, they sometimes experience feelings on the limb that is no longer there. They'll feel an itch, or hot or cold sensations on a missing leg, or arm.

I think that's what those dreams are like. Just like our brains involuntarily remember that we once had that leg or arm, likewise our brains remember this person that was with us for a very long time and the sensations that they generated. Your brain replays sensations from the past. It doesn't mean you are crazy, or still in love with him. It's just your brain processing the loss.

Something to consider is that people almost always lose a limb in order to save their life. Losing him is what you needed to save yours. It hurts at first, but the alternative is way worse.

Venus I think you are awesome, you are doing great.

...he likely woke up that way with his AP. I know that's very dramatic and a 'victim' mentality, but I wish the movie reel would stop!

It's got to suck having your WS show up in your dreams like that. I was so messed up by my WH's cheating that I didn't dream hardly at all for the first year, and to this day, I still don't dream about the adultery. My brain wakes me up if I get anywhere near the trauma, which of course in the first year meant waking up at all hours and not being able to get back to sleep.

Here's the thing though, your WH didn't get a character transplant. He IS the guy who cheated and lied, and who REFUSED to redeem himself and do better. When that happens, the cheater isn't getting the help he so badly needs. He's building his castle in the sky, but he doesn't have the MEANS to make anything real because he hasn't fixed what's wrong with him. Like lots of other unrepentant cheaters, he might make it look good on Fakebook, but there's rot you can't see.

I think your therapist is probably right about the grieving. If you think about it, there's been so much upheaval and drama that there hasn't really been time to process the loss. Many people compare it to being widowed, only without the outward sympathy people often see in bereavement. Even in R, we deal with the Five Stages as we process the death of what we thought we had. Try to be gentle with yourself, but also, try not to get bogged down and isolated. Remember to reach for friends and to keep busy. Self-isolation can really hold up your healing and land you in a bad depression, so double up on your self-care and MAKE yourself engage in a social life. You can do it, I have so much faith in you.

((big hugs))

Hugs darlin!!

Venus you are so fucking amazing I cannot even.

The grief is normal. And blessedly temporary. After we filed for D, I was just bouncing between numb and prostrate with sad for weeks afterwards. It was about 6 weeks after D, I was driving home from work on an absolutely glorious fall afternoon just thinking about nothing in particular, and I thought to myself how much I was looking forward to getting home and seeing my puppers (and taking my bra off lol), and it hit me very suddenly that I honestly couldn't remember the last time I had WANTED to go home. I cried all the way home, but they were happy tears. Yes I was divorcing, but I was also getting ME back. I was getting my joy in simplicity, my love of my home, my peace back.

I still remember every detail of that drive home and how light and free I felt. And you know? I STILL feel that way almost 2 years later. And I haven't shed a tear over his sorry ass since.

You'll get there Venus. I know you will. Until then, just be kind to yourself and know that whatever you're feeling is normal.

You have a good start! Those dreams are just natural. You miss the things you do everyday but eventually they will fade out.

@BigMammaJamma – thank you for saying that! There are some days that I feel so weak and that I take five steps backward in this healing process. I find myself sobbing in bed or in the shower, whereas the day before I felt strong and didn’t even think about my situation. I just know that I deserve so much better than to be treated the way that I have been treated by my STBWX the past year, and especially these last 6 months! I don’t want this to break me and harden my heart. Even though my STBWX has broken my heart and taken 16 years from me but I can't get back, I know that there has to be something better and brighter out there for me. The same holds true for you my friend!

@Wanttobebetter – I just hope that when his house of cards falls that I’m indifferent. I don’t want to be waiting for it to happen if that makes sense. I still find myself wondering and asking those horrible questions that I know I shouldn't though. Why her? What is so great about her? How could he throw away an entire life for somebody like that? I know the answers... there is nothing special about her she's just the one that was there and willing to open her legs. But, it really makes you question what was real because that trust was broken so badly. The sad thing is that I know now that it was easy for him to walk away from me and our life to go start this new one. There is something weak / broken inside him to make the choices he’s making, I just regret that I’m the collateral damage and didn’t see through his lies sooner.

@Charity - I absolutely love your analogy! The fact that I have to lose my STBWX to save myself. It is way worse to stay in the marriage than to leave it … it’s just scary to do so! I definitely feel a lot of loss this week … and it has manifested in multiple dreams the past couple of nights. I wake up missing what was and I hope they become less frequent overtime so that this isn't as painful.

@Stubbornfit – thank you. You are awesome too you know! I saw your profile and how your WH had a porn addiction and started with parlor sex workers in 2019. I have major issues with anything porn or sex related because of my STBWX meeting his AP via virtual sex site. IC is helping, but I an’t listen to songs that mention sex, watch movies with people making out, read a romance novel … very traumatizing! Big hugs to you.

@ChamomileTea – You nailed it in just four sentences! “…your WH didn't get a character transplant. He IS the guy who cheated and lied, and who REFUSED to redeem himself and do better. When that happens, the cheater isn't getting the help he so badly needs. He's building his castle in the sky, but he doesn't have the MEANS to make anything real because he hasn't fixed what's wrong with him.”

Why is it so difficult for us BSs to actually believe this about our WS? I’m quite shocked that my STBWX is a liar and cheater and refuses to redeem himself. I had no idea he was a narcissist and I thought he had more character than this. I remember early on he told me how he was so ‘unhappy’ and I was the source of all his unhappiness. I now know that he is the source of his unhappiness and he will never truly be happy because he’s in denial and isn’t getting the help he needs. He’s just covering up all his pain and all his issues with this cam girl and shiny new toys (new apt, new car, new life, etc.).

I’m feeling quite ‘lonely’ this week, but I think it’s tied into the whole dealing with the loss thing finally. It has been so chaotic the last 6 months and if my STBWX is more out of the picture because of NC and him being out of state with his AP, there is more time to focus on me and what that loss has actually meant. I haven’t heard from my STBWX for a week, which I expected rage or something following his being served, so sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

And I promise to be gentle with myself! It is a daily struggle for me, but I’m keeping busy. Having dinner with family, drink with friends, working out, watching stuff on Netflix, reading … even going on a camping trip early July!

@EllieKMAS – Hugs back! You are seriously my spirit animal. And remind me all the time that I ‘kick @ss’!

I can relate to the feeling numb one minute and then sad the next. I do feel lighter this week, which is a very weird feeling. As long as feeling these things is ‘normal’, I’ll keep pushing forward and through every day. And I look forward to having that moment of clarity and feel true relief!

@beb252 - I hope you are right that these dreams fade out! I’ve had a dream every night about my STBWX since he was served. It’s more and more difficult to get myself out of bed with positive / happy thoughts.

I’m feeling quite ‘lonely’ this week, but I think it’s tied into the whole dealing with the loss thing finally. It has been so chaotic the last 6 months and if my STBWX is more out of the picture because of NC and him being out of state with his AP, there is more time to focus on me and what that loss has actually meant. I haven’t heard from my STBWX for a week, which I expected rage or something following his being served, so sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I think that will depend on what he sees in the settlement agreement. When he reads something that pisses him off, you'll see the rage monster again. The thing to remember going forward though is that you're no longer just dealing with him. He's got an insecure cam-whore's voice in his ear now. So, anything you do hear, you'll need to think about motives and which voice you're actually hearing. Believe it or not, OW's can become quite magnanimous in what they perceive as victory after "winning" the sparkly turd. They don't want to be seen as insecure, which in actuality, is the motivating factor in the magnanimous behavior. So yeah, you might see overtures in your direction, read "attempts at triangulation". When you're not the object of anger, you can still be the object of pity and that too triangulates you, increasing drama and decreasing insecurity. You see how that works?

Your best bet is to block whatever methods of contact you can and be prepared to ignore them or send them through your attorney.

In terms of feeling lonely, that's to be expected now that the drama is dialed down. When you're thinking that you're missing your WS, try writing down all the crappy things you know about him, all the ways he cheated, every selfish action, every cruel word, all the people he's mistreated. The farther back you can go, the better. Your mind is likely to try and revert back to positives because THAT is what you've trained it to do. You have a big heart and you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. But in this case, that's not going to serve your truest needs. In this case, searching your memory and correcting your mind with the truth will take you further.

You're doing well. This is the hard part and it doesn't last forever. You'll be okay.

((big hugs))

I think a good takeaway from this for you even if you don't feel it yet is this is going to be a huge life growth lesson for you. These life lessons can shape us make us stronger than we ever thought would be. I look back on all the trauma in my life and realize I can glean from them. It has become a source of strength and it's something else we here on SI realize that yeah what happened to us sucked however we have grown and continue to learn from it . All of us has a chance to be invaluable to someone else going through this as a huge support and a wealth of information. Keep doing what you are doing. Hugs for now Venus and stay the course.

I'm feeling quite defeated this past week SI! The damn movie reel is in technicolor, the loneliness is palpable, and I’m questioning everything about the last 16 years. I know I prepared for this part and it won’t last forever, but damn does it SUCK!

I am growing by leaps and bounds having to experience all of this and IC is really helping me get through. I learned that a friend of mine is going through the same thing and I find that I can help him through those early stages and that helps knowing I can give back somehow. I just wouldn’t wish being a BS on anyone. This pain is just awful and the WS (well the non-R worthy WSs like my STBWX) don’t understand or care to understand what damage they’ve caused. And the pain … hits you in big tsunami waves when you are in NC.

The latest: My STBWX has moved in with the AP, her son, and her dogs in *said location* (I believe she left the OBS). He uses phrases like ‘our dogs’, ‘our home’, etc. and has done large joint purchases with her. He acts like he is in love with this cam whore and like they are going to be married and live happily ever after. It’s almost as if he is more in the affair fog than he was in January! How is that even possible? And they think they deserve all of this! UGH.

This week he removed me from the car insurance without my permission (because ‘his’ cars are in *said location* and I won’t have need to drive them) and changed his address for our joint accounts (that have to stay joint until our D is final) to his new address. What’s funny about that is that he told me he is living with his parents (because he didn’t want me knowing the truth), but clearly this is their new address. I informed my lawyer immediately.

I do know I am becoming stronger every single day. In fact, I’m proud of how long I’ve done NC and stuck to my guns. I just still can’t wrap my mind around how my STBWX is acting. I’m not in denial, rather I’ve accepted that this is what it is, but it’s flat out surreal! Knowing my STBWX wakes up in the morning while she makes him coffee and watches a movie with her / her son on Saturday night just makes me sick! Because (insert sarcasm) watching movies made me fat and unlovable, and I never gave him the right amount of sugar in his coffee.

I’ll keep ‘swimming’ SI, but I read all the new posts in this wonderful form and I find myself so heartbroken and angry. This sh!t happens all the time. I understand people make mistakes and some are worthy of forgiveness, but this is ridiculous.

I’m trying very hard to push forward and not become bitter. Sadly, I’ve had some pretty bitter thoughts this week. “I will never get married again.” “I will never share a bank account with anyone ever again.” “If I do get married, I’ll have an iron clad pre-nup.” “I’ll never be so stupid again.” “What is the point of loving someone as much as I loved *him*”.

This JUST ISN’T ME!

Oh, and I haven’t heard a word from him about being served yet. It’s like I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. Didn’t expect no response!!!