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Newest Member: Misery

New Beginnings :
Four years in, and something is amiss

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sillyoldsod ( member #43649) posted at 11:30 AM on Monday, January 25th, 2021

This ^^^

OIN as eloquent as ever!

I've never met a sociopath I didn't like.

posts: 673   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2014   ·   location: UK
id 8627829
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thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 8:43 PM on Monday, January 25th, 2021

As someone in his early 60's I have seen a lot of people's relationships. One consistent theme is that what he is now will only be more so when you start living together or get married. If you can live with that, then go for it. If you cannot, then end it.

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4474   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8627917
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 10:20 PM on Monday, January 25th, 2021

Lots of very important RED FLAGS, and I agree with that these issues will most likely increase if you move in together, hence the "vacation version of him" analogy by a previous poster, the name on the title of a future home is also very worrisome, not to mention the fact that he ignored the "olive branch" from HIS OWN child, imagine what would happen if something happens between him and any of your children and you're forced to take sides.

Again he doesn't get along with his own family, DO NOT move in together with this guy, have the conversation but keep your distance, if he doesn't make an honest and real effort to change or is simply unwilling to do it, just cut him loose, better to do it now than when you're even more invested in the relationship both emotionally and financially. Life's way too short to live it "tip toeing" around anyone, you and your children deserve so much better than that.

posts: 2590   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8627935
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 nekorb (original poster member #40306) posted at 11:58 PM on Monday, January 25th, 2021

Hi everyone - I appreciate all of the feedback. I wanted to give an update to see if it changed anyone’s thoughts on anything.

We finally had a very long talk on Friday - about five hours worth. It actually started with him saying he didn’t think we should see each other anymore. That we had been talking about this same topic over and over (kids) and just not finding resolution.

The change came when I said I would bring his few belongings down to him, I’d like to say goodbye to him - he’s my friend and I want to wish him well, I’m not angry, etc. Then as we were pausing to consider when that would happen he said, “So, we are breaking up because you want to be neighbors with your daughter.”. Then that opened the door for the discussion about what I DID want on that topic - an hour or less, and that was agreeable to him without much discussion - he seemed to mostly feel I was taking into consideration where his son was living, etc.

Next topic was parents and son he hasn’t spoken with. Cleared up a miscommunication - either he gave the wrong date or I heard it incorrectly, but his son has not reached out to him since 2019, and that was a very nasty, abusive text that I was already aware of, and was in agreement that G5 should not engage. Talked about his parents and learned some things that confirmed my suspicions that they are toxic. So, his parents and one son, toxic and understandably no contact.

Topic of G5 and my kids. G5 said he does not dislike my son, but feels like early interactions were not ideal and set up a bad feeling. He frequently references early on when all three of my kids sat down with us and had a list of questions for him, and that made him uncomfortable. Questions were along the lines of “What are your intentions with our mom?” Kind of thing. He is unable to accept they were just kids worried about their mom, and were not intending to make him uncomfortable.

G5 has conceded that we will be at events where my ex is there, and that he will be there and will be civil.

He interestingly said “I guess my tough guy exterior has sent thr wrong message about how I feel about grandkids.”. He said he actually gets along with kids really well, and is ok with grandkids coming over to visit whenever.

I was really pleased with all of these things.

It was noted repeatedly that a lot of issues came about because of lack of communication from both sides.

One issue that remained was our kids meeting one another. He feels that his son is going to be uncomfortable in the situation of meeting my kids. I straight up aid he was insulting all of our kids, and he cited his early interactions with my kids that I noted above. I said all I wanted was for him to ask his son about it, and he aid that if his son knows I want him to come, that he will do it regardless (what a concept!).

He came up on saturday per usual and all was good until he was about to leave on Sunday. He asked if he was going to get a text from me when he got home telling him there is “something else”. I said I was just having some sort of uncomfortable feeling, and that one thing I thought about in regards to his son that perhaps he could just ask if he wanted to meet them sometime without mentioning me at all. I got a “You just can’t leave it alone, can you” type response. I said I was just thinking about ways to avoid his son feeling obligated to meet my kids if he didn’t want to.

This conversation went around and around for awhile. I heard often “I don’t ask you to do anything. I literally let you do whatever you want, but this one time you don’t get what you want, it’s a big deal.”. I asked what other topics he felt this way about and he did not provide any examples. Eventually it was “is there anything else? When are the requests going to stop? I don’t ask you for anything. I just want to know.”.

So - this is problematic for me, because it is reinforcing the feeling I am already struggling with that I can’t talk to him about things. I pointed out that he ASKED ME if there was anything else I wanted to talk about. If I had said no but then brought this up a few weeks later, I would have been in trouble for not telling him yesterday. I’m in a no-win situation on that topic.

An incident from the past that has remained a point of contention is a Christmas celebration with my family that he backed out of at the last minute because he had been traveling for work all week and wanted to stay home in his jammies and watch tv, rest, do laundry, etc. I told him I felt like he was rejecting my family. He asked if how he was feeling matters at all. I said yes it does, but I feel like he knew he wasn’t going to go, but waited until the last minute to tell me. I also pointed out that I would have gone, because my family is my priority. Idk. I have mixed feelings about that incident as he really, truly was having a terrible time at work traveling every single week, etc and this event would have been a 2.5 hour drive each way. (I would have driven)

When he left I texted him and aid I was sorry we had that convo as he was leaving. I said what each of us wants is neither right nor wrong, but we need to decide if this can work for us. I suggested we both take some time to think about it, and plan for a constructive conversation.

Ok, on your mark, get set, GO! I’m listening.

Thank you!

Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 M - 22 Years
D-day: 7/2013; D filed 7/2014; Divorced 7-27-16
...the WS affair starts off in a dreamland where everything is all Golly, Wow! and Meant To Be! and Soul Mates drop from the trees to frolic in the mist. -devotedman

posts: 5697   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2013
id 8627962
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annanew ( member #43693) posted at 1:03 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

Gosh. Started so positive but some of what he said later would bother me a lot. "I let you do what you want" (??????) and "you just can't leave it alone". He doesn't sound very mature. Sounds like in his head he's only doing things to pacify you and keep you around, not because he's your partner. I'd actually be pretty insulted to be on the receiving end of this attitude.

Is it too late to demote him to FWB? I'm not sure I'd view him as a long-termer after all this.

Single mom to a sweet girl.

posts: 2470   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2014   ·   location: California
id 8627968
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 nekorb (original poster member #40306) posted at 1:54 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

IKR?

Started off so good. We are going to have another conversation.

I will definitely be addressing things from the second convo that I am not comfortable with.

Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 M - 22 Years
D-day: 7/2013; D filed 7/2014; Divorced 7-27-16
...the WS affair starts off in a dreamland where everything is all Golly, Wow! and Meant To Be! and Soul Mates drop from the trees to frolic in the mist. -devotedman

posts: 5697   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2013
id 8627976
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 3:04 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

He asked if he was going to get a text from me when he got home telling him there is “something else”. I said I was just having some sort of uncomfortable feeling, and that one thing I thought about in regards to his son that perhaps he could just ask if he wanted to meet them sometime without mentioning me at all. I got a “You just can’t leave it alone, can you” type response. I said I was just thinking about ways to avoid his son feeling obligated to meet my kids if he didn’t want to.

This conversation went around and around for awhile. I heard often “I don’t ask you to do anything. I literally let you do whatever you want, but this one time you don’t get what you want, it’s a big deal.”. I asked what other topics he felt this way about and he did not provide any examples. Eventually it was “is there anything else? When are the requests going to stop? I don’t ask you for anything. I just want to know.”.

So - this is problematic for me, because it is reinforcing the feeling I am already struggling with that I can’t talk to him about things. I pointed out that he ASKED ME if there was anything else I wanted to talk about. If I had said no but then brought this up a few weeks later, I would have been in trouble for not telling him yesterday. I’m in a no-win situation on that topic.

Honestly what would you tell a friend if she was in your shoes ? This guy seems immature and impatient, based on his responses I see major red flags (even bigger than before), I wouldn't even take his reasons from being distant with his family at face value but that's besides the point.

He doesn't seem genuine and looks like he only was receptive to your inquiries when he saw you were serious about ending the relationship, but then he showed his true colors again with the "You can't just leave it alone, can you" "is there anything else" and "when are the requests going to stop" type of comments, and you're not even living together yet. This time after reading his responses I suggest you cut him loose, again, life's way too short to be tip toeing around this guy, your gut has been screaming at you and it's for a reason, and this is possibly just the tip of the iceberg.

posts: 2590   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8627983
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JanaGreen ( member #29341) posted at 3:22 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

I agree with buster. The things you posted that G5 said remind me of how my ex talked to me. You can't leave things alone, it's always something with you, we could be happy if you'd just get out of your own way. I was twisted up in knots all the time, unhappy but knowing I'd be shouted down or passive aggressively punished for speaking up when something bothered me. It's no way to live.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 9:22 PM, January 25th (Monday)]

posts: 9497   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2010   ·   location: Southeast US
id 8627985
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FaithFool ( member #20150) posted at 4:02 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

"You can't just leave it alone, can you"

What? Really? Wow. ^^^

Unless you think you can get really comfy sleeping on those eggshells, I'd say you should get out while you can.

DDay: June 15, 2008
Mistakenly married Mr. Superfreak
20 years of OWs, WTF?
Divorced Dec 26, 2011
"Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget
to sing in the lifeboats". -- Voltaire

posts: 21494   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2008   ·   location: Canada
id 8627988
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Karmafan ( member #53810) posted at 7:57 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

We finally had a very long talk on Friday - about five hours worth. It actually started with him saying he didn’t think we should see each other anymore. That we had been talking about this same topic over and over (kids) and just not finding resolution.

You just casually throw it in there, that he actually wanted to end the relationship.

He’s destroying your soul, consuming you with anxiety, belittling you, disrespecting you, accusing you of nagging, calling you names, resenting your kids, questioning your life choices. But he gets to say: we are done. And when you go along with it, he has a go at you ‘for wanting to end things’. Re-read this and tell me if this is normal behaviour. Or whether that’s, rather, expert manipulation by someone who knows just the right words to throw you off kilter, again and again. Who knows how to paralyse you into inaction.

And then he makes some half baked promises that he will change and all is good again and he’s back at your place. With some more snarky remarks and put downs. But your soul is screaming. Because no matter how much we lie to ourselves, it does catch up with us in the end. I ended a 3 1/2 relationship last august for much less. But the commonality was that I kept lying to myself about what a great guy he was and how his less palatable sides were just a part of his being human.

You are not in a healthy relationship and you know it. We also know it, and are telling you in one, united, chorus. And the reason why we know it is because we have been in your shoes once. And got out.

Me 47
XWH Irrelevant
D-day 23 Feb 16
3 amazing, resilient kids

You are not a drop in the Ocean, you are the entire Ocean in a drop

posts: 632   ·   registered: Jun. 23rd, 2016   ·   location: UK
id 8628004
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 nekorb (original poster member #40306) posted at 10:55 AM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

Thanks, peeps. I knew you guys would keep it real.

The eggshells thing came up a couple weeks ago as well, actually. He said he wouldn’t want to live that way. But, here has set up that scenario again, after working toward getting me off the eggshells during our convo on Friday.

On Sunday morning when I woke up I had this weird feeling that I had made a mistake. That I should have just let it go. I couldn’t quite put my finger on the source of it, but it was there.

I do think the issue is that we both know we are delaying the inevitable - well, I know it anyway. We both really love the good things about our relationship so it’s painful to let go.

When he said he wanted to end things on Friday, my response was that I thought we owed it to ourselves to at least talk about it, but that I couldn’t force him to do that and it was fine. We were making arrangements for me to get his stuff to him.

I hadn’t thought about the possibility that he was using the situation to force my hand, per se, and that I didn’t respond how he expected me to. Although I don’t think that’s an actual possibility. He was very upset and crying when we first started talking, which he rarely does (crying). He’s not a bad guy. Has some issues. But, not for me to solve.

I really hate this.

Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 M - 22 Years
D-day: 7/2013; D filed 7/2014; Divorced 7-27-16
...the WS affair starts off in a dreamland where everything is all Golly, Wow! and Meant To Be! and Soul Mates drop from the trees to frolic in the mist. -devotedman

posts: 5697   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2013
id 8628009
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wildbananas ( member #10552) posted at 3:26 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

I literally let you do whatever you want

Oh, HELL NO. Who died and appointed him your guardian? rolleyes

I'm really sorry, nekorb. I know this hurts. And I know it's not all bad. But this just isn't fair to you or your kids. sad

Travel light, live light, spread the light, be the light. ~ Yogi Bhajan

posts: 16538   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2006   ·   location: Somewhere
id 8628035
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Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 3:48 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

Taking a birds eye look at this, here's what I see. You have been with this man for four years. Forget all the tiny intricacies of he said I said. After four years you are no further along in terms of truly intertwined lives than you were in the beginning. He subtly sends the repeated message that you have your place, and you have no business trying to cross that line.

He does something classically recognizable if you've been with someone like this before. They ask what you need only to credit themselves with having asked. It's not asked with the intent of actually listening, or compromising. That's why he can immediately turn it around and say "Anything else?" and "I don't ask you for anything."

This is how he manipulates people, and I suspect, not just you. That whole exchange was designed to let himself off the hook while reinforcing that you have no right to ask anything of him. He can feel longsuffering while he's really being a jerk.

Here comes a gentle two by four. Stop falling for it. You were played masterfully in my opinion. You went from we need to talk and agreeing to end things, to being sucked back in, only to be reminded on his way out the door that you are the failure in this relationship for daring to have expectations. And then you did the unthinkable but something he surely expected. You texted him with an apology for having that conversation at a time not perfect enough for his delicate sensibilities.

What on earth did you have to apologize for? Wanting to meet his parents after four years? Wanting your kids to meet his after four years? Those are normal expectations for people in an intimate relationship. In fact, most people would expect far more, but you keep checking yourself. To paraphrase a classic line "He wants you on those eggshells. He needs you on those eggshells." That way, he completely defines this relationship.

I'm sure you have happy, warm fuzzy, experiences with him. I'm sure you could continue to, as long as you don't rock the boat. As long as you check what you need at your very welcoming door. And four more years from now you will be exactly where you are now.

From personal experience, don't be fooled by the crying. When I left my relationship with someone just like this, the cold, hurtful, self centered person I had been desperately trying to please, became the total opposite. Crying, writing literally books of poems about me, calling all my friends and family members and more. It landed him a stalking charge. There was never anything remotely sincere about any of it. It was about the unthinkable idea that he had lost control of me.

I wasted years on that guy and it's my deepest regret. You knew when you started that conversation that you weren't getting what you need, and you likely will not. Cut your losses. I'm willing to bet your kids feel the same way.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8628047
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newlife03 ( member #56527) posted at 4:05 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

I haven't read the other replies so I apologize if this is a repeat.

He is unable to accept they were just kids worried about their mom, and were not intending to make him uncomfortable.

He can't accept that they were kids? He's being the kid here. I'm sorry, but I'm not a fan of his right now. He's very self-centered and expects the world to revolve around him and his feelings. He could have done a quick 'drive by' at Christmas, meet the family, say a few hellos and how-are-you's, and then go home to rest. It's call sacrificing for someone else. I don't think he understands that the relationship is a two-way street.

I don't see where you owed him an apology, but I can see myself doing the same thing.

Me - 50
Kids 25, 22, 18
1st DDay in 2006, 2nd in 2007
D in 2009
Happily Committed to SO since 2011

posts: 657   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: ID
id 8628052
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 5:18 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

He could have done a quick 'drive by' at Christmas, meet the family, say a few hellos and how-are-you's, and then go home to rest. It's call sacrificing for someone else. I don't think he understands that the relationship is a two-way street.

Good partners like doing the little things that help make their partner happy. He's shown himself to not one of those.

posts: 1138   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8628084
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skeetermooch ( member #72169) posted at 6:58 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

That he started the convo saying he wanted to end but then somehow evolved to accepting a bunch of your terms tells me the "ending it" line was about triggering your abandonment issues and re-engaging you in a really toxic, sneaky way.

I don't want to repeat what everyone's else has said but yeah - he's not move in relationship material - he's not safe.

Me: BS 58DDay 1 - 7/2019 DIVORCED - 1/2021

posts: 1208   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2019
id 8628108
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 nekorb (original poster member #40306) posted at 7:25 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

I’ve really not felt like he was manipulative during our relationship. I don’t think he was being manipulative on Friday either, but I can definitely see how it could appear that way and I may be wrong.

He’s been fairly straightforward with how he feels about things, so manipulating me into something seems out of character.

Either way, I’m uncomfortable enough that I know this needs to change/end.

And yes, I do need to hear it from you guys a million times more.

Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 M - 22 Years
D-day: 7/2013; D filed 7/2014; Divorced 7-27-16
...the WS affair starts off in a dreamland where everything is all Golly, Wow! and Meant To Be! and Soul Mates drop from the trees to frolic in the mist. -devotedman

posts: 5697   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2013
id 8628112
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StillLivin ( member #40229) posted at 7:45 PM on Tuesday, January 26th, 2021

Nekorb, what it boils down to is this, "Is this how you want your relationship to be?"

He, and you, have had 4 YEARS to come into alignment. 4. Him not introducing his kid to yours after 4 YEARS, is very telling. Don't get sucked into the sunk costs of it all. Better to end something that doesn't work for you after 4 years than 14.

"Bitch please a good man can't be stolen." ROFLMAO - SBB
D: 7/2/2014

posts: 5977   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2013   ·   location: AZ
id 8628114
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 nekorb (original poster member #40306) posted at 1:01 AM on Wednesday, January 27th, 2021

So,early on in the thread, counseling was brought up.

G5 did agree to have our children meet when we are able, delayed due to pandemic issues.

Do I want my life to be like this forever.No. But if G5 is willing to work on things within himself, isn’t it unfair not to acknowledge that effort and see what it yields?

Either way, we have to have a discussion.

A friend of mine in RL who has been through something similar has suggested I just sit in a quiet place and think about being without him, and see what feelings come up about it. I also intend to pay careful attention to what those feelings are saying about me and my current emotional health.

Me: BS 44; Him: WH 47 M - 22 Years
D-day: 7/2013; D filed 7/2014; Divorced 7-27-16
...the WS affair starts off in a dreamland where everything is all Golly, Wow! and Meant To Be! and Soul Mates drop from the trees to frolic in the mist. -devotedman

posts: 5697   ·   registered: Aug. 13th, 2013
id 8628176
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homewrecked2011 ( member #34678) posted at 3:03 AM on Wednesday, January 27th, 2021

I dated a guy for 3 years. During that time, I met his Mom, but he never took me to meet his brother and sister, his friends in his hometown, etc. He met my parents only 1 time.,We basically dated, that’s it. There was never a step further. It was like he had his whole life boxed up and everyone stayed in the assigned box. He was a really great guy, we had a TON of fun. But I finally had to go to IC to break up with him. I really wanted the whole relationship type thing.

Maybe you can just date him, don’t move in together. Idk.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 9:04 PM, January 26th (Tuesday)]

Sometimes He calms the storm. Sometimes He lets the storm rage, but calms His child. Dday 12/19/11I went to an attorney and had him served. Shocked the hell out of him, with D papers, I'm proud to say!D final10/30/2012Me-55

posts: 5403   ·   registered: Jan. 30th, 2012
id 8628193
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