SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The WW said she would do anything to save the marriage but was not sure I would forgive her to move forward to R.

Forgiveness isn't a requirement of reconciliation. Many members here have fully reconciled, but will not forgive the affair. They accept it, but they don't forgive.

Also, reconciliation is a process. It takes years. It sounds like she thinks you decided to reconcile, so you are. It doesn't work that way.

Dr W Harley has led couples through successful recovery

were the WW never showed remorse.

Willard Harley has caused more harm than good. Unfortunately I found him and not SI back when I was suspicious (gut) of my XWW without proof. It harmed me greatly.

You have all the pros here giving their best to help you. I know you will be fine either way.

It might take time for your wife's Limerence to die. Without that there's no excuse she can give herself to justify her actions.

I think people say all kinds of crap in texts. Not all of it is genuine.

What you want is what's best for her. She needs to come to gratitude, honesty, humility, and a real sense of love and remorse for injuring you deeply.

You will always have these scars but it's going to make you stronger and wiser and I hope more compassionate for the frailty of people. Not that I think you have to stay with her but if you can see it clearly and not be cruel or develop hate that's a great place to be and your healing will be swift. Anger is healthy if it gets you the change you need. No need for being hateful or mean. Let your anger come and then think of what you can do to resolve it and let it pass through.

She was very foolish to be swept up in her head like that a d she's distorted her view of you because of all the excitement and chemical rush. Now reality feels like ice water.

The decision to work on your health is a bonus in all this. When you improve your health everything gets better. Your thinking, your sleeping, little aches go away, your organs repair. Try some olive and sesame oil with your cardio to keep arteries in top shape. Seemed oil alone was shown to keep blood pressure in normal ranges.

I think years from now your wife's view of you as less than exciting will show itself for the fantasy it is. I hope she busts her butt to stop feeling entitled and grow into gratitude for everything she's got.

Several of the past few posts seem to be leaning hard for CM70 to consider reconciliation. I don't know why this is frankly.

Everything that has been seen is pretty typical. WW faced with the real prospect of losing the marriage, is now panicking and turning on the waterworks. The in-laws, after expressing outrage for WW's actions, are now showing signs of becoming her defense attorney--at least MIL anyway. Both are to be expected. Maybe WW has been disabused of the notion that she's the heroine in Bridges Of Madison County, but she still sees herself as the central character here. She is thinking of her own welfare primarily, and the idea of going with an immature jackass w young kids and little money isn't sounding so good anymore. And WW's mom's shift in behavior is looking as much an instance showing that blood is thicker than water. She is likely thinking of what divorce would mean for her daughter, and gee it sure would be swell if CM70 could swallow this and reconcile, and then deal w this sometime later on his own time. This isn't about concern for CM70's regard here.

I think CM70 should be looking out for himself and his kids at this point. MUCH too early to be talking about reconciliation.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:58 PM, January 10th (Sunday)]

After reading this site for years, so many posters repeat the refrain, “Don’t rush to make any decision!!”. After absorbing the collective wisdom and experiences here, I think that refrain should be modified to:

“Don’t rush the decision to reconcile!!!”

There’ve been a great number of BS’s who have regretted doing exactly that - deciding to R too early. On the other hand, perhaps it exists, but I’ve never read one poster who started D proceedings quickly and then regretted it. This process starts a (LONG) countdown timer whereby the WS will either come to true remorse and do everything the BS needs to actually consider offering the gift of R (and stop the D), or it confirms the WS was never R material.

OP, I would urge you to consider this.

Hey CM,

You are doing the best you can. But how are you? Really; how are you doing.

Remember her IC is being a friend to your WW, telling her who you can talk to etc. This is to get her onside.

She needs to address the underlying issues that lead your WW to the excitement of the cheating, the lying, the betrayal etc.

You talk to who the fuck you feel the need to. It isn’t up to her IC, or WW toxic friends who you confide in.

Keep her accountable for each of her actions. Not just the worst acts of the betrayal

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 4:39 PM, January 10th (Sunday)]

I have to agree with Gr8ful. Starting the divorce process is not divorcing. Filing for divorce is not divorcing.

If you can afford it, it wakes up the WS with a bucket of ice water (it will cost you in attorney fees, but may be worth it). If the WS is done with the marriage, than let them be done with the marriage. Why wait? They can have AP, just without BS in their life like everyone says on here...you can be with AP, just without me in your life.

And since it usually takes a few months, they can show with actions if they are R material. If not the D process is started and you are ahead of the game.

Don't be like me. I lived in limbo for 8 months and it suuuucked.

Hey Everyone, took a bit of a break for a few days just to catch my breath. Things are stable right now the WW & I usually have a talk every couple days to go through what is going through each other minds. The WW has cut down her texting & calls to everyone. She usually talks to her sister about every other day, so I get a sense of where things are at from that conversation.

I am feeling better today than I did last week, I still have no clue where this is going to go. But like I said I am waiting to see how she reacts through her actions and what she says on the VARS. If she goes off the rails at all we will be done. The kids don't seem to be acting any different, but they probably sense some tension. We discuss our issue either in the Master Bedroom or in the car away from home.

I see my WW mother mentioned from some other posters. She is only supportive & has not try to lead me in any direction. She knows her daughter did me dirty, and just says she is her for us. My WW wife has some battle scars of her childhood, parents divorced when she was eight and her real Dad was an alcoholic & MIA at times. I have mentioned this in our conversations that she has some "Daddy issues" which of course is met by denial and deflection. I am going to go to counseling just so I have someone to talk to about all this, maybe it will help. I not much for shrinks but I guess I will give it a shot.

[This message edited by CM70 at 5:57 PM, January 10th (Sunday)]

Hi CM70,

It is good to hear from you, and I hope you managed to get an appointment with your doctor. It is vital that you do not neglect your health, for you, and for your kids.

It would be a good idea to draft a list of what you need, so that even if you are letting your wife lead the way and watching what she does (a perfectly reasonable way to go if you are wanting her to prove her commitment to you and the kids), you establish the key targets that she has to hit if you are going to remain in the marriage.

If she goes off the rails at all we will be done.

Have you defined what 'off the rails' means, or is it a case where if she does x, the boundaries will be moved, so that they are y. And if she does y, 'off the rails' will be z?

I apologize if this seems like I am attacking you. I am not. I am trying to make you aware that having flexible, moveable boundaries because you do not want to break up the marriage can backfire, by giving your wife too much latitude in the driving seat.

What has happened is not insurmountable. It is not good, it is certainly grounds for divorce if you take a black-and-white approach to fidelity, but if you want to try to roll with it, and see if things can be saved, it will be up to your wife to fully explain why she did what she did, and why she thinks you should continue to be married to her.

What happened is a product of your wife's thought processes and attitude to herself, as well as to you and the kids. She must get to the bottom of this in IC and explain why she thought getting involved with her AP was better than coming to you and expressing her anxieties about the relationship.

You have already done this, but it is important to emphasize that your wife can leave any time she wants, to make her address where she wants to be, and why she wants to be there. Let her know that if she cannot commit 100%, she can go her way, and you will go yours.

It seems fairly clear that her affair was not intended to be an exit affair. She was cake-eating behind a wall of lies and deception to pretend that all was well while she chased her affair partner.

By busting the affair, you have called her bluff, and despite what she said about being unhappy, she wants to stay exactly where she was. Which should tell you everything you need to know about how 'bad' the marriage really was.

An alternative scenario is that she got targeted by an opportunist, and she thought it would be fun to run with it, while lying and maintaining the marriage. So she needs to explain to you why she will not do the same thing six months down the line, or whenever some passing chancer pays her a few compliments.

CM70, I do apologize if anything I wrote came across wrong, it is not my intention to bash anyone in your family. You are the one at the end of the day who knows everyone and what happened for each interaction. Just make sure you look out for yourself.

At the end of the day no one likes to be the bad person in their own story. Your wife really may have been "unhappy". She may say she was unhappy because it is the only explanation that makes sense to her as to what she did. She may say she was unhappy to try to ameliorate her actions--for whatever reason we tend to accept sadness as a sort of excuse for horrible decision-making. My point is that your WW has to do some serious digging beyond this on finding her why's what made her able to justify chating on you and then lying to you about it.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:37 PM, January 10th (Sunday)]

She's going to do it again.

Well, some rough hits last night on the VAR with the sister. To back up a bit we had a surprise party for a friend who was turning 50, went to the party got along talked to some people we knew all was good. Ended up having sex that night and it was decent. Sunday do household crap, trying to finish my basement which is beautiful but I am now afraid I won't be able to enjoy it since I will sell the house if we go the D route. Wife wants to take the kids to the movie theater to see a movie, so we go in the afternoon. Everything is fine she sits next to meet almost make me hold her hand and is resting her head on my shoulder most of the movie. Drop my daughter off for her dance stuff & wife forgot to give her some gift for her coach so she drove back to the gym & I stayed home.

So she goes to the gym and is there for about 40 minutes. She is talking to her sister sitting in the parking lot on her phone and is crying basically saying she is trying but the feelings just aren't there and she hopes her counseling can help her fix her issues. Then goes on to say she has very negative feelings for me, which I am not sure where that comes from since the night before seemed OK. Also says she is still struggling with thoughts of the AP. Her Sister tries to guide her saying that she needs to give it time and really try and maybe her feelings will come back. My WW goes on to say she is worried about ruining the kids lives & breaking my heart. Also she mentions me and trying to get to the deleted texts (which I did not get, but may now take to a proffessional) and said I something to the effect that she was ashamed to say that she almost wished I had gotten them as they were very bad and that alone would possibly make me just say I am done, which in turn would get her off the hook in a sense. After that she said to her sister if you think I was making a big mistake getting a D would you grab me, shake me to my senses? Sister replies I am here for you and if you are not happy you should not stay in the marriage. To my face she says she wants to give it time as we both go to counseling, but then she talks to her Sister in a totally different way. Obviously she is very F'd up, and I think she is having a mid-life crisis. She turns 45 in a few weeks.

So after I listened to the above, I come downstairs & she said do you want to talk? I said yeah, so we go up the Master Bedroom. I basically tell her I don't feel she is being honest in this process (surprise!) and she is just not on board. I tell her let's talk about if this does not work out, which get's her immediately defensive. I tell her no there is a good chance that his not going to work. I go on to say that we would sell the house & she would need to figure out where she will go, & splitting the kids time 50/50. I tell her if we go D I want it to be amicable and not ugly which she agrees. Then she drops this little nugget, well I don't think we should tell the kids about he affair as their friends will talk about them & their cheating Mom. I let it go, but the reality in that statement is she is worried about her reputation and it has nothing to do with the kids. Yes this is a mess and really took a shift last night for me, she is definitely not "R" material at this point and it is looking much more like a D. The scariest thing about all of this, is you think you know a person after being with them for 23 years but she is not the person that I trusted with my life. I will keep grinding but it is looking pretty bleak at this point.

[This message edited by CM70 at 10:51 AM, January 11th (Monday)]

affairs cause addictive brain chemistry. as any addict your WW

craves a fix of OM(her drug).

normal to crave her fix as she detoxes from her affair. as long as

WW continues to maintain NC she will detox and lose her need

to get a fix.

when the time comes:

you tell those kids that married people do not have a BF/GF and

go on romantic dates with them. well mom had a BF and went

on dates with him. his name is_____

you also then expose the whole affair to her family and friends.

I had gotten them as they were very bad and that alone would possibly make me just say I am done,

....do you really need to see them at this point?

well I don't think we should tell the kids about he affair as their friends will talk about them & their cheating Mom.

.....yea that’s why....for the kids. I mean she thought sooooo much about them when she was with her lover.

IMO it’s time to move on.

Sorry to hear about the new information you gleaned from the VAR. Obviously at this point she is not R material.

It could be that feelings for OM are interfering with her feelings for you. She may have an epiphany at some point and realize she wants to save the marriage. Or she might not.

Have you filed for D yet? In some states it takes a long time so it is probably best to get the ball rolling. You can always stop the process if she comes around.

I agree that the text messages are pretty much unnecessary now that she has admitted to her sister that you will likely divorce her when you read them. Tells you everything you need to know right there, and you can't unsee those hurtful messages if you recover them.

In regards to the deleted texts, what has she told you thus far? Is she pretending she doesn't remember or has she told you they were bad and she didn't want you to see them? If she was lying before, tell her you have reason to believe that she knows more than she claims and you want to give her one last chance to tell the truth. If she still pretends to remember nothing, you know she's lying and can't be trusted, which IMO means more than whatever she said in those texts. And if she comes clean and tells you, you may not have to go to a professional and spend money.

If you haven't yet, you should see an attorney and start planning for the D. If your WW starts to make substantive changes, you can call it off. I would suggest that it is worth your time.

I do think you need to recover the lost messages in order to finalize your direction. You are on the fence and she seems to want out but for the children and breaking your heart. She says she has negative feelings toward you. Wow, I don't know how you change that around. You need something to help you close the door on this marriage. File for divorce and try and make it amicable. If by some miracle she turns around, you can decide whether you want to continue, but you need a kick in the rear to get out of this limbo. I am a BS and I have much empathy for what you are experiencing. Following your story is gut-wrenching and heartbreaking. Take care of yourself emotionally and physically, but strike now and file for divorce. She betrayed you. You owe her nothing.

If my understanding is correct, she:

- views D as some sort of relief but doesn't want to be the one who filed,

- still has feelings for the OM, and

- doesn't feel the same spark she discovered through the romantic texts & kiss with the OM and now resents you for it.

IMO she needs an IC with experience in infidelity and mid life crisis. A therapist that will provide her with a plan for reconnecting with you and for dealing with mid life crisis issues.

She needs more than a therapist that just mirrors her messed up thinking (the current IC).

In the interim, you can't control her outcome. She has to find her own way forward. None of this is about you and there's nothing you could have done or said to prevent it.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 12:54 PM, January 11th (Monday)]

Watching you thread from afar.

Thought I would chime in.

Right after my H's affair was exposed, his head was so far up his ass I am surprised he could breathe. Still very much "in love" with his AP and there was a lot of playing two ends against the middle. He wasn't sure if he wanted to stay in the marriage or ride off into the sunset on a unicorn with his AP.

My point is and much like another poster told you, this is an addiction. Once the addiction wears off and NC is maintained, they usually pull their head out of their ass and reality takes hold again. They become completely disgusted in what they have done and the AP becomes a shitty bad memory. BUT, I have to remind you, this can take a lot of time. There is a reason they say it take 2-5 years to recover from an affair, and that's only if the BS desires to stay married and the WW does the work.

My 26 yr marriage survived his 1 year affair and we are great now, though I am the one that struggles with the unrelenting hate I have towards his AP, but that's a whole other story.

It's really hard at first to hear her conversations with her sister about her lack of feelings for you, but I would bet a lot of that is because she is feeling the withdrawls from the AP. Hard to watch, I know.

It's hard to give advice as though affairs are similar in their ugliness, they are all born from different circumstances. some alike, some not.

Only you know how much you are willing to put up with and whether or not this is a deal breaker.