SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I realize that that this is likely to get worse before it gets better

SlapNuts nails it by pulling out this phrase you used.

There's a contradiction in dealing with infidelity.

Don't beat yourself up too much. Most BH's react generally the way you are now - going into helper Mr. Nice Guy mode, going along with rugsweeping and blameshifting.

The irony is that by doing that you are guaranteeing it WILL ONLY GET WORSE and never get better.

The only way to deal with infidelity is with shock and awe -- by being a hard ass -- not kid gloves, not by being enlightened and a modern man.

Kid gloves gets you four years of limbo like me. Now I'm getting divorced. Too much water under the bridge.

Had my WW done some things different ... well, maybe there would have been a chance for reconciliation. Maybe.

I don't like holding out false hope on these things. Newly betrayed husbands need to back away from the hopium pipe fast. The things that made their WW's stray and cheat are a part of their WW's very fiber. Rooting that out requires a tremendous amount of work, and let's face it the vast majority of WS's aren't up to the task or they would never have cheated in the first place.

Some WS are capable of it. You'll read posts from some of them here on SI. They seem like genuinely nice people who have done a tremendous amount of introspection. You might find yourself wishing your WW was one of these. But if she's not, she's not.

Right now, she's certainly not and won't be for the foreseeable future. Right now, she's an entitled resentful cheater who hates that she got caught. That's who she is. Right now she's someone who took her vows for granted and thought it was perfectly fine to accidentally fall on another man's genitalia repeatedly.

Nota bene, I'm not suggesting you turn into a rage monster or an abusive asshole either, nor am I recommending you be intentionally cruel.

But I am recommending you harden up. Fast.

Your WW fucked another man repeatedly, including in your home. For most men, that's a bridge too far. It was for me.

Maybe your WW reverses her cranial-rectal inversion. Perhaps. But the only way that happens is you get to work on the to-do list that has been outlined for you.

Dithering will get you more pain. A lot more.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:05 AM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

recognizes that she made a mistake

Adultery is not a mistake. Using baking powder instead of baking soda in a recipe is a mistake.

Adultery is a long series of intentional, willful transgressive thoughts, behaviors, deeds and words with attendant emotional and physical abuse of betrayed spouses akin to rape.

You now have the genital microbiome of another man commingled with your own. Is that intellectual enough for you? Gross.

It's a horrible violation. It's not a mistake.

The other day I told her that she needs to take 100% ownership of her bad choice before we have any discussion about my 50% contribution to problems in our prior relationship. This escalated to a suicide threat in about 20 seconds. "You're going to hold this over me forever" etc. Doors were slammed, and off she drove

This is typical redirection of sympathy. They try and make themselves the victim. Don’t fall for this form of manipulation. She should be focused on YOUR pain and suffering that she is responsible for. As you can see she’s still self absorbed. Wants YOU to comfort HER when it’s your time of need.

Regarding the Tadeo books, that shows you the level of premeditation that took place to prepare herself for an A. Then they claim it was just a terrible impulsive mistake, a moment of human weakness that you must summarily forgive them for if you truly love them.

Don’t get sucked into a Wayward’s alternate universe. We all wind up there for a bit, but don’t languish for too long. Just stay long enough to get closure, then get out ASAP.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:44 AM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

On the whole 100 percent responsible for bad choices, 50 percent for the marriage thing.

I just want to push back on this a little. You hear it around here a lot. I don't think it's true.

I think the formula is more like 100 percent for the adultery on the cheater's shoulders and 60-70 percent of the marital problems on the cheater's shoulders (or even more).

This is one other reason why WS's are desperate to rewrite the history of the same marriage you've been in after the mask gets ripped away.

Once you drill down a little bit, you often start seeing patterns of destructive behavior that WS's have been carrying out for years. BS's often have rose-colored glasses on and don't see these things until the glasses get ripped away by infidelity.

You're starting to see the REAL woman you married. Kinda terrifying ain't it? And rest assured, yes, this is REALLY who she is. The body snatchers didn't replace her with a clone. This is her. This is who she has been all along.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:48 AM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

If you aren’t sure if you will be D soon, demand a post nup to Consider reconciliation. If she refuses then you know your only option is to D or Separate immediately.

Your attorneys job is to do divorce. They don’t do relationship recovery or infidelity recovery. Their view on exposure is based on that.

Divorce is simply negotiations around a framework defined by law and precedent.

If you go to the car dealer and if you tell him right away that the only car in the universe you want is the red one in his showroom and you could afford to pay the listed price… Guess what? You will walk out having paid the listed price plus extra for everything else.

Your attorneys know this, and their job is to make sure you hold your cards close and play your best hand. That’s why they tell you to not expose – it’s giving away a card that might or might not be played later.

A competent attorney will ALWAYS keep your hopes at a reasonable low. If your attorney were to tell you that you would keep the house and never pay CS or SS you should run and find a more pessimistic one.

Don’t worry too much about the CS. It’s for your kids, and the amount will be in accordance with the custody. The parent that gets the CS is also expected to pay for some/most of the kids need. Keep in mind that IF you end up with 50/50 then half the time you are not paying for the kids food and stuff.

Spousal support? Well… your wife worked. She brought in some money. What would be keeping her from working again? I doubt you will be paying alimony for too long, nor too high an amount.

Friend – Fear of spousal support, child support, limited custody… these are all fears men tend to hang onto to delay or postpone action. Best way to deal with fear tends to be making the unexpected and unknown expected and known.

If the AP is ducking you and your wife isn't supposed to be talking to him about the affair, you know she still is talking to him.

The reason you tell him at a minimum is so that he knows you have a loaded gun. Even tell him you have hard proof you will give to his wife if he ever tries that crap again in your view.

It also give you permission to stink eye the guy like a the coward he is every time you see him. Your secret isn't their secret. Make it tough on them. No reason to make yourself uncomfortable.

You will want to tell the OBS eventually, but you seem to want to avoid this conflict as long as possible.

Set yourself a date of forced action. Write down how you feel now and wrap it around a copy of the evidence, her timeline, and tell her to write the future you a letter trying to stop you from divorcing her. Send it in the mail to yourself to be future delivered in a way your WW won't see it. This is so you have a date in which you must stop dragging your feet and make a decision.

If you are in analytical mode, be sure to make some lists. Balance out why you are and aren't making the decision. List out the consequences of not taking action while writing up this list. It will help you understand what you are sacrificing by staying complacent. This may be something to openly discuss during MC. Tell the counselor to STFU when they try to interrupt and be very clear about this being required for clear and open communication. I hated MC compared to IC because they continually try to stop any tough conversations. It is complete bull from my experience.

I will say my WW started being stupid when our youngest started Kindergarten due to feeling abandoned by the children and not knowing what she was going to do once she stopped being a needed mom.

So basically, you WW was predisposed to have an A. The OM easily saw the signs, and went for your WW. She happily played along. This was not a mistake, it was her choice.

You discovered the A, and now your WW feels sad that her BF dumped her. At this point, she is not doing the basic steps for R, you are covering for her.

Normally, a R candidate would go NC with the AP, plus the enabling friends and family. The R candidate would feel horrified at the pain he/she has cause the BS and children, and would work for years to rebuild trust. A detailed timeline would be given, verified with a Poly. Any information would be freely given, any questions answered.

Your WW is doing none of those things. She just wants you to rug sweep.

You don’t take any actions BECAUSE “you live in a small village”, BECAUSE “her social circle would be broken”, BECAUSE “D is expensive” etc... And you protect the OM for some reason by keeping his secrets (and potentially hurting the OBS with STD)

You don’t even know the extent of the A and whether she did this before.

You have come to the right place here at SI. Your story has been seen and lived by members thousands of time. The 3 pages on your thread is filled with good advice that will enable you to make healthy choice for you and your children. You have all the information you need.

So why do you choose to stay in Infidelity ?

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:26 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

Just a couple things.

1. Maybe your wife lost her going to the soccer match privilege by screwing the neighbor in your house. You go alone and if anyone asks where WW is the answer is "busy".

2. I don't think you will do it but tell the OBS. It will blow up anything that your wife and her BF are still doing behind your and OBS back. If you did not know would you want her to tell you?

3. TBH very, very few people give a hoot that your wife is cheating with the neighbor. She ain't the first or the only one in that club. Some probably have seen them together before or after they fucked in the SUV. Or noticed his car at your house when yours was gone. It may be a topic for the gossips until some other better scandal occurs. But if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. A bit of embarrassment is her prize.

AA,

There's a good chance the only two people who think this affair is secret is you and OMW. You describe a small town where it's likely that people are keeping quiet to save you and OMW pain. There is at times a conspiracy of silence.

I'm very sorry your WW embedded this affair into your life and you have no where to escape from it, with triggers like landmines.

I have to see my brother in law a few times a year and I want to chop his head off, and he just groped my W, I can't imagine what it like to see an affair partner often.

Since OM continues to be an OM, can you get the goods on him for other affairs you can expose. Perhaps those BHs can send the OM out of town for you.

Quick update:

WW exploded during our CT session today.

Long story short, CT called 911. WW is presently en route to the hospital for a Section 12, i.e., psych eval.

This cannot be good, right?

On one hand, the CT witnessed the breakdown.

On the other hand, who knows what WW will say in her current state.

WW will probably sign herself out and return tonight.

2 kids were home and witnessed mom ride off in the ambulance.

While its fresh in your mind Above, document and write yourself an email, detailing the time of the event, CTs name, reaction, kids reaction....... If you go down the D route, you will want that. It will help you to take full custody of your children. If you have any inkling that you might do down the D route, you should start processing that in terms of what you say to your wife, what you say to the Dr..... starting now.

This will and should have an impact on your custody if your WW is not stable. The kids shouldn't go with her.

WW exploded during our CT session today.

why are you in couples counseling with her?

It sounds like you are dealing with a BPD as you mentioned in your earlier posts.

I believe the explosive anger is well known red flag for BPD's.

I'm out of my depth giving you good advice dealing with that. Every WS seems to have some powerful neuroses that are at least connected to a lack of empathy, some level of entitlement, narcissism and so on -- but it's the truly toxic ones that are NPD or BPD.

I will say I don't see a lot of great updates for spouses who are dealing with NPD/BPD waywards.

Think about what your kids are being exposed to here by you staying in this. You could file for D and go for primary or even sole custody right now. It would be best for them, in my opinion.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:31 PM, September 16th (Wednesday)]

Brother, you need to go to BestBuy TODAY pronto and get yourself a couple of VARs. One is for you to keep in your pocket at all times when interacting with her. This sounds like a volatile situation that is more unstable than you let on in your previous posts.

A VAR in your pocket is to protect you from a false DV charge. It happens frequently to innocent men! You need to protect yourself right now. I'm very concerned. Please go get at least one VAR.

The latest $50-60 Sony model is the one you need, not the cheaper one.

The other VAR is for her car, which is where most of her secret continuing contact with the AP is likely happening. Also conversations with others who may be enabling her. You need to know all of that for your own sanity and protection.

Please act on this now and don't dither. Please.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:36 PM, September 16th (Wednesday)]

I think what you're missing, AboveAverage, is a sense of yourself and your boundaries.

What do you want? What are your deal killers? What bad behavior will you accept? What changes in your W are requirements and what changes are nice-to-haves?

My guess is that the arguments against D that you've given cover up a something - maybe fear of and dislike for D from your childhood, maybe a genuine desire to D (but you don't want to see yourself as a person who would leave a mentally ill W), or a genuine desire to R (but you know R doesn't look likely now), a wish that your W would accept treatment for her mental illness, etc., etc., etc..

I recommend looking for a good IC to help you separate the streams of thought and feeling that are consuming your mental and emotional energy now.

If you want R, figure out your requirements the things that would cause you to go directly to D or permanent S if she does or doesn't do them - things like continued lies, breaking NC, a new A ... whatever will cross your line.

If you want D but can't bring yourself to file, a good IC can help you overcome the obstacles.

If you don't know what your boundaries are, a good IC can help you find them.

IOW, stop focusing on how to respond to your W. Start focusing on yourself and your healing. Not so BTW, the more you heal, the better able you will be to respond effectively to your W.

You're getting good advice, but right now? Get off the internet and go hug your kids. They have to be terrified. Go do something fun with them, that will help get their minds off of what they just saw

Can you help us understand what triggered this explosive meltdown by her today?

On page 2 of this thread, I outlined some steps you can take regardless of R or D. They will actually help surface things that may (or may not) help you decide on a path. Have you done any of these things or taken steps on them?

Here they are again (some will need to be modified considering your WW's meltdown):

1. Tell the OBS right now. Everything. Expose, expose, expose. UPDATE: What are you waiting for?

2. Tell your WW's family - at least her parents. sounds like her sister already knows. UPDATE: And now I think this is REALLY necessary. Her family needs to know about the adultery and that she had a full blown explosive rage meltdown with a therapist.

3. Demand a NC letter right now. A real letter. UPDATE: And again, this should be done. You haven't given us context for the meltdown, but one could read between the lines of your update and assume the affair has continued underground as you've tacitly given it a kind of sub rosa approval with your silence and allowing BAU activities like the book and soccer clubs.

4. Put a VAR in your WW's car and in your house. Make sure you start carrying a VAR around on your person to protect against fake DV charges. UPDATE: Do this TODAY.

5. Ask you WW to have the decency to go stay with her parents for at least a week to give you space. Failing that, ask her to leave the bedroom. UPDATE: If you tell her parents, this now makes even more sense. She needs to be away from the kids so they aren't exposed to this as she's having a mental health crisis. Can she move in her with her parents for a time?

6. Demand she go back to work right now. UPDATE; This depends on you. If you go for primary or sole custody, child support should be less of a legal issue, although you'll get stuck with paying spousal support to a cheater if she doesn't have income.

7. Demand a full STD panel from your WW and get one for yourself. UPDATE: More important than ever. She could be getting one at the hospital RIGHT NOW, today. I know of a BW who told her SA WH that if he hadn't had an STD test done that day, he should just go ahead and check himself into a hotel. You could do that with your wife. Insist on an STD panel right now at the hospital, and tell her not to come home if she hasn't had one. You're not responsible for coddling her. She has put your physical health at risk.

8. Demand a full written detailed timeline from your WW as an accounting for the activities of the affair. UPDATE: This will need to wait a few days, but it's now a necessary item for you and will help move you in a clear direction.

9. Sign up for a polygraph to test the veracity of the timeline. UPDATE: I always say a polygraph is best paired with a written timeline. Sisoon disagrees and relies instead on watching for tics and mannerisms that betray lying. I don't disagree entirely with this approach. However, we aren't all professional interrogators and having a polygraph to back things up is very helpful. Cost is about $500-600

10. Fire your couples' counselor. Tell your WW there will NO couples counseling for the foreseeable future. UPDATE: You've now seen just how ineffective couples counseling is. It's practically worthless. Please don't ignore this. You're better off signing yourself up to see a betrayal trauma specialist. She should separately see a betrayal trauma specialist as well, and that professional can also ensure she's getting other mental health resources she needs.

11. Demand she read Linda McDonald's book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" UDPATE: This only applies if you think there's a real chance for R. However, it will be an eye opener for you to read yourself. You yourself should download this today and start reading it. It will open your eyes to how little your WW has done and what a mountain she has to climb for any successful R (which seems increasingly unlikely).

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:04 PM, September 16th (Wednesday)]

You're getting good advice, but right now? Get off the internet and go hug your kids. They have to be terrified. Go do something fun with them, that will help get their minds off of what they just saw

Good advice.

The one thing I'm begging you to do today is to get a VAR for carrying around in your pocket.

Above,

Firstly - I am so sorry that you are here.

Secondly - I would not normally comment on or judge anyone's mental illness. But my WH's AP made sure that I got the message that she was "hospitalised" in the days after D-Day and I reacted appropriately with kindness. Since then I've heard more than once (on this and other similar sites) of WS's weaponising their mental health to avoid dealing with D-day fall-out. Knowing then what I know now, I would have been far more skeptical. And definitely very neutral rather than kind.

Thirdly - in the months after D-Day I had to learn to separate out my love for my children from my natural desire to cling to the status quo in incredibly unsettling times. (And I didn't even have COVID.) It is entirely natural to reject out of hand the thought of taking any big steps in these early months - but think carefully about what it is that keeps you from even exploring all the options. You shouldn't decide anything yet, but give yourself the space to think about all the possibilities. So that you can ultimately make the best choice. For you.

Finally - Your children's short term happiness may be determined by friends, playgroups and school, but their long term happiness will be heavily impacted by having healthy, happy and stable parent(s). And by the relationships that you (both) model for them.

I was lucky (hah!) in that I had a WS who went NC, submitted to a polygraph and being digitally tracked, took full responsibility, and committed fully and constructively to IC and MC. But I have to say that the year after D-Day was awful. But we needed to go through it to get to the other side. When the emotional dust settles, if you don't deal with them in healthy ways, your feelings about your wife's infidelity will make a healthy, happy marriage with her impossible. And if you have to see and interact, even distantly, with the OM without having had resolution ... and frankly, justice of some kind ... I cannot believe that this will be healthy for you either. My point is that your needs and your children's long term needs are never diametrically opposed.

Thinking of you.