SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have little faith in the polygraph, for 2 main reasons. First, and most important, I think people can learn to be better lie detectors than machines can be.

This is essentially a false dichotomy. Both/And is the better approach. Polygraphs are blunt instruments yet quite effective for cutting through the bullshit and getting at the truth. It's your life of course, and we're only keyboard warriors. But we've seen time after time polygraphs creating a "truth will out" moment and parking lot confessions. Yes, you can use a variety of techniques for tells and tics and mannerisms. That's all good stuff. Don't rule out the polygraph if you want the truth. If you want to head straight for D, disregard because you don't need to know anymore really, unless you want to.

I've spoken with a dozen attorneys over the past month. They all seek a $5-7k retainer, or more.

Can anyone provide alternatives?

Does anyone have tactical advice re: negotiating payment plan, pro-bono options, etc?

Appreciate the advocacy for "shock and awe" but the reality is that unless I can figure out how to file, I don't have a solid option for D - just a theory, or an empty threat.

Thanks.

I'm in the same boat trying to figure out the payment options, AboveAverage, so I'll be curious to hear more from others here. I've told my wife I want a divorce, but I'm in a different situation from you and believe it can be amicably mediated.

You can still do many of the things on the "shock and awe" list without filing for divorce. You don't have to file for divorce to tell the OBS, expose, get a written timeline, do a polygraph and have her read Linda McDonald's book (and read it yourself). Those are all things you can do right now.

You don't have to file for D to go get at least one VAR for yourself.

Or to implement the hard 180.

Or to have her write a NC letter and mean it. Has she actually done this? She "agreed" to it, I know.

You don't have to file for D to insist she go get a friggin' job.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:11 AM, September 18th (Friday)]

Yes, you can file without an attorney. Mediation services are also available. My ExWW and I shared an attorney. I pay zero alimony. That’s why I advocate keeping things civil while you D. Don’t antagonize the unstable WS with unnecessary revenge schemes, acrimony or shit talk-especially if children are involved and you need to foster a coparenting relationship. Just make a clean break. The WS, at some level, wants to leave. Make it easy for them without compromising yourself. Usher them out the door and into their new life as gracefully as possible so you can get on with your new life. Money matters should never keep you tied into a toxic relationship. NEVER. Life is just too short and fleeting. Relish every moment you possibly can. Get out of harm’s way. Get out of these F’d up toxic relationships and find a real love affair or-at least, self love as soon as that settlement is signed-if not sooner. Time is of the essence. Make your moves quickly before the Wayward has time to process what’s going on. Waywards, many times, go through a bitter vindictive anger phase where they lash out at the BS very destructively. I don’t know exactly why they do this but, I have seen it many times. My WW did this AFTER we settled-THANK GOD! When she noticed me dating, she absolutely lost her shit. Any latent feelings of love, regret or sympathy for me went right out the window. It was battle time but, the war was already over. We had totally settled the D.

Make your move swiftly, cleanly and gently as possible. You’re dealing with a very unstable substance-a Wayward.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:21 AM, September 18th (Friday)]

Hope you have as restful a weekend as possible and that you begin taking active steps to getting out of infidelity. Be well. My prayers are with you.

One interesting development.

WW and I agreed to avoid confrontation or escalation for the evening, and we actually had a non-emotional argument last night in which she shared a long simmering trauma...

~ 23 years ago, before we were married, I went to NYC for the weekend to see friends. Through a series of unlikely circumstances, WW, then girlfriend, found out that I was not where I was supposed to be - instead of going directly to hang out with the friends I said I intended to visit, I was with another woman who my girlfriend did not know.

This woman was a friend. The truth is that it could have been more. I suppose I was there in part to find out if that was the case. WW/then-GF called and confronted me while I was with OW. I fessed up to both of them immediately.

FF. WW/then-GF and I stayed together and eventually got married. This event hasn't come up in years. Now WW says that for years, she always worried that I wasn't where I said I would be (I'm a road warrior), that I had another family somewhere else, that I removed the child seats from my car to hide the fact that I had a family (not to go skiing or cycling with the seats folded down), and that I checked my phone all the time for many years because I was having an affair (in fairness, I used to have this habit - until WW asked me to stop, which I have done, and which I am now attuned to in others in all the ways that are discussed here, etc.).

The fact is that I did not sleep with OW, and I cut contact. As WW and I openly discussed my past indiscretion / poor choice / deception, I realized that I was on the receiving end of a well executed reversal - but somewhat deserved.

Am I horrified that I did not know that this was unresolved years ago? Of course. Do I think that this justifies WW's recent choice? Hello no. Does she? Best answer is: Kinda.

Is it a fair answer? No, of course not - but it has the virtue of being honest, for where WW is right now.

I fully appreciate that she's trying to gain high(er) ground, but I cannot dismiss her feelings - she unfairly accused me of infidelity for years, which I steadfastly denied, defended, ignored - when I should have been more engaged, more open, more honest in the first place.

Long story short, this doesn't really change the hard truths about where we are at, or what happened earlier this week, or our prospects for R.

But it was a surprising flip, and one that cannot be 100% dismissed without at least some consideration.

2020 sucks.

[This message edited by AboveAverage7913 at 12:35 PM, September 19th (Saturday)]

You will need to continue to be introspective about what precisely your motives were for meeting with the young woman in New York. it sounds like you were fishing for a possible connection but you haven’t provided enough details. But the bottom line is it wasn’t an EA and certainly not a PA. It is human nature to be attracted to other people, but it is the carrying out of that attraction that matters most.

One could see what your WW just did as a form of DARVO.

It’s a little over the top to tell you she suspected the last quarter century you were harboring another wife and another family somewhere.

Other than your last update have you taken any of the other tangible steps we’ve recommended? Have you by any chance downloaded Linda McDonald’s book?

she unfairly accused me of infidelity for years, which I steadfastly denied, defended, ignored - when I should have been more engaged, more open, more honest in the first place.

This sounds like projection. Are you quite sure this recent affair is her first rodeo? Given her volatile personality I wonder.

The only way you’ll know Is either she tells you (unlikely) or you’ll know with a polygraph after she gives you a timeline and you ask her point blank “have there been other affairs or romantic or sexual contact of any kind (including kissing) with other men during our marriage?”

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:56 PM, September 19th (Saturday)]

You indicated you “have the story” from your own sleuthing. Have you actually asked her to sit her ass down in a chair and write it down for you in black and white in a detailed narrative timeline from her own perspective? it’s unclear from your updates.

Am I horrified that I did not know that this was unresolved years ago? Of course. Do I think that this justifies WW's recent choice? Hello no. Does she? Best answer is: Kinda.

My wife, who I have reconciled with — also began our recovery with a defensive, well thought out rationalization for her shitty choices. She held on to resentment and unresolved anger, and then used it to fuel her ‘reasons’ for breaking her vows.

Here’s the thing - unresolved anger - that’s the fault of the person holding on to it.

Yes, you could have handled that situation better. But she should have shared her concern, her resentment.

You can’t know about a long held resentment, because we still can’t read minds.

Here’s the turn around on the turn around:

So, what she’s saying then is, the NEXT time she has some resentment, it’s okay for her to have sex with other people. Or she is saying, there isn’t any way for her to become a safe partner, because she will make you PAY for your next mistake with her bad behavior.

Marriage can’t cause infidelity. You can’t make your wife be unfaithful.

All relationships have tough moments. Not EVERYONE chooses to cheat.

Once my wife understood that and OWNED her poor decisions, that’s the first moment we had a chance to salvage something.

Some WS never get it.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 12:55 PM, September 19th (Saturday)]

Are you going to let the OBS continue to languish in half ignorance and anxiety or tell her?

Nope....I don't believe your wife's self serving desperate attempt to justify her adultery by blaming you.

IMO she's blaming you in order to avoid taking responsibility for the flaws in her character.

Your wife in not some young inexperienced/neurotic teenager. She's a mature adult ... a well educated professional woman & mother who's fully capable of making decisions and standing up for herself.

If her IC validates this nonsense, then find another IC.

IMO your wife is an unsafe partner as long as she blames you (and all her excuses are a form of blaming you) for her decision to commit adultery.

This will drag out until you stop it.

The sooner you blow up her selfish, immature & delusional thinking by exposing her to the OBS (and her friends) the sooner she starts to face reality (and the consequences) - and starts the hard work of fixing herself.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:26 PM, September 19th (Saturday)]

PLEASE tell AP's wife what is going on. This woman deserves to know the basis upon which her marriage is built. BTDT... NOT knowing is the worst. She already suspects; I can guarantee she's going crazy, trying to find information, not wanting to believe what she sees but knowing it's true. Help this poor woman... tell her the truth. The only thing worse than knowing the truth is NOT knowing the truth.

You cheated. You lied and she never got over it. From most of the posts from men the physical part of their SO’s cheating is what hurts. With women it’s the lying. I guarantee that your weighing who you wanted to be with has been like thorn to her all these years. It kept her from committing completely to you and the marriage. You had proved yourself to be untrustworthy.

You think because you never had sex that you were the “good guy”. Not even close.

I suggest you both read an article by Jonathan Wallace about lying, and leaving something out, like a trip to see another woman, was lying, and cheating.

Both of you need to work with therapists. There is no excuse for her cheating......or for yours. Do you see how long pain lasts until it is dealt with?

Wait a minute, what state was your relationship, you state gf but was it at the dating stage, serious committed but living a part, living together or engaged? 23 years ago so it was early stages appx 9 years before marriage. HUGH difference not even close to being married so many years with children, not to minimize other members pain but it’s just not.

All throwing this up now is her justifying her shitty decision and trying to regain the high ground. Don’t fall for it, it’ a trick!

[This message edited by DeWittle at 8:21 AM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Oh cmon. Comparing a single guy taking a woman to lunch with a wife fucking a guy in the marriage bed and calling it both cheating! That’s like saying a child’s balsa wood glider is the same as a stealth bomber.

Look. It is clear that your wife has been nursing this grievance forever. But if she has extrapolated this into you having a second family somewhere she is deeply ill.

If she is even hinting that “now we’re even” you need to seriously look at divorcing her. Bringing this up now is really one of two things. Stupid desperation and deflection or deeply manipulative behavior. Either way she is in need of some serious reflection.

Do not accept blame here.

She is super high functioning and can be brilliant when not self-sabotaging.

I reread your first post.

IMO you wife's affair is just one more example of her self-sabotaging.

It's unfortunate that her self-sabotaging spread to her marriage (hurting you and potentially your kids).

This thread. Oy vey. How many ways can a betrayed husband twist himself into a pretzel to pretend that his wife fucking a mutual friend is acceptable?

Butforthegrace^^^

Perfect.

Yes, this is classic projection and redirection of sympathy and an attempt to regain some moral high ground.

Yes, you’re past transgression will leave a degree of lasting latent mistrust and resentment that wains over time and actions but...let’s keep it in proper perspective. My ExWW also tried desperately reaching WAY back to resurrect every grievance, she could remember to justify.

If that bothered her SO much. why did she stay with you, then double down and marry you? She had multiple opportunities to healthfully, sanely and effectively deal with this “unrelenting grievance” before it turned into a mutually destructive crazy ass extramarital affair.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 5:47 PM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Again, thanks for reading along and providing input. Appreciated.

Poly: How much should this cost? How do you select the right venue?

Divorce: It turns out that there is a min ~6 week backlog in my county. 2020 sucks for everyone, it seems. I can put plans in motion, but it'll be 6 weeks before she's served.

NYC: My "friend" and I were introduced before I met my now-WW. Our platonic friendship always had potential for more, and I knew it. She knew it. Could have been a weekend hookup, but was not explicitly discussed. I was simply doing what I always did when I was single - going to NYC to see friends and enjoy myself. I was not living with my now-WW at the time, and I didn't think I needed her permission to go, and I didn't think I needed to disclose every move. In hindsight, I was in the wrong and unfair to her, and dishonest, and her current maneuver is not entirely misplaced. The bill comes due. I'm being charged interest and penalties that are entirely punitive, and which were never in the contract - and which I will certainly not pay.

Linda MacDonald - didn't love this one. She fairly states that the basic premise should work whether you ascribe to Christianity or not, however I'm not a church goer and the references to god work interrupt some other good points. Her absolute position comes through clearly. Of course it resonates with me. Appreciate the reference, thanks. One note: I didn't see anything about blowing up someone else's marriage or informing the OBS - in this book, or in any of the other books I've read.

Timeline: I have the facts, and her story is consistent.

@ Oldwounds - how long did it take you to get through the anger and resentment? Until your WW "got it" ? I'll try to look around and see if I can find your story. Thanks for the words.

@Robert22205https - yes, plenty of blameshifting. Not unexpected. I don't accept, and knowing my WW as I do, I will continue to present hard truths and push forward.

@Cooley2here - Will check out Jonathan Wallace, thanks.

@DeWittle - WW accused me of cheating many times over the years. I thought it was driven by her insecurity. At one point, I considered that it might be projection. The bottom line is that it was unresolved, and we should have been smarter and more honest with each other long ago. I'm not excusing her or justifying her horrific choice - but I do accept my own role in the underlying dynamics that contributed here. She still f*cked up, bigtime - all on her. And she knows it.

@longsadstory1952 - this is NOT a "now we're even" story. I wish it was that clean cut, a lot of things would be easier.

@Butforthegrace - not a mutual friend. I never knew this guy existed, until I did. He's the father of our youngest daughter's kindergarten classmate. My WW is easily the most attractive woman at pickup. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't want to nuke this guy. I just can't get around the idea that much like using a real nuke - the fallout will hit me in unintended and unhealthy ways.

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers, I'll keep reading.

Thanks all.