SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again, thanks for reading along and providing input. Appreciated.

Poly: How much should this cost? How do you select the right venue?

Divorce: It turns out that there is a min ~6 week backlog in my county. 2020 sucks for everyone, it seems. I can put plans in motion, but it'll be 6 weeks before she's served.

NYC: My "friend" and I were introduced before I met my now-WW. Our platonic friendship always had potential for more, and I knew it. She knew it. Could have been a weekend hookup, but was not explicitly discussed. I was simply doing what I always did when I was single - going to NYC to see friends and enjoy myself. I was not living with my now-WW at the time, and I didn't think I needed her permission to go, and I didn't think I needed to disclose every move. In hindsight, I was in the wrong and unfair to her, and dishonest, and her current maneuver is not entirely misplaced. The bill comes due. I'm being charged interest and penalties that are entirely punitive, and which were never in the contract - and which I will certainly not pay.

Linda MacDonald - didn't love this one. She fairly states that the basic premise should work whether you ascribe to Christianity or not, however I'm not a church goer and the references to god work interrupt some other good points. Her absolute position comes through clearly. Of course it resonates with me. Appreciate the reference, thanks. One note: I didn't see anything about blowing up someone else's marriage or informing the OBS - in this book, or in any of the other books I've read.

Timeline: I have the facts, and her story is consistent.

@ Oldwounds - how long did it take you to get through the anger and resentment? Until your WW "got it" ? I'll try to look around and see if I can find your story. Thanks for the words.

@Robert22205https - yes, plenty of blameshifting. Not unexpected. I don't accept, and knowing my WW as I do, I will continue to present hard truths and push forward.

@Cooley2here - Will check out Jonathan Wallace, thanks.

@DeWittle - WW accused me of cheating many times over the years. I thought it was driven by her insecurity. At one point, I considered that it might be projection. The bottom line is that it was unresolved, and we should have been smarter and more honest with each other long ago. I'm not excusing her or justifying her horrific choice - but I do accept my own role in the underlying dynamics that contributed here. She still f*cked up, bigtime - all on her. And she knows it.

@longsadstory1952 - this is NOT a "now we're even" story. I wish it was that clean cut, a lot of things would be easier.

@Butforthegrace - not a mutual friend. I never knew this guy existed, until I did. He's the father of our youngest daughter's kindergarten classmate. My WW is easily the most attractive woman at pickup. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't want to nuke this guy. I just can't get around the idea that much like using a real nuke - the fallout will hit me in unintended and unhealthy ways.

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers, I'll keep reading.

Thanks all.

Since you seem to have trouble understanding why it's important to tell the OBS, and how it helped, it would be a good idea to start another thread,asking that question. You will be bombarded with responses.

Personally, I've always felt that if telling your wife's OM's wife causes any damage to your attempt at R. Then you never had a chance in the first place. If it causes her to decide to divorce because you did the right thing, then she is more concerned with protecting the boyfriend,instead of her husband.

One note: I didn't see anything about blowing up someone else's marriage or informing the OBS - in this book, or in any of the other books I've read.

You said yourself this is a small town, you’re likely to bump into the OM and OBS. Are you going to lie to OBS? Are you going to weasel around and pray no one asks you a direct question or ever find out about it? Why are you squirming to protect cheaters and hurting someone who doesn’t deserve it? You didn’t choose this situation, but you own your decision for how you act now.

Based on the state of TT I had at the time, I agreed not to disclose the EA to OBS as long as my wife kept NC. She broke it; I found out; told OBS, and 4 other BS contacted the OBS to say the OM did the exact same thing to their wife, but they didn’t want to “blow up her marriage.” Her marriage was already in smoldering ruins and she just didn’t know. From what I understand, OBS is much happier after the divorce.

if telling your wife's OM's wife causes any damage to your attempt at R. Then you never had a chance in the first place. If it causes her to decide to divorce because you did the right thing, then she is more concerned with protecting the boyfriend,instead of her husband.

I agree a new thread may be appropriate - or you can find/read the plethora of other "should I tell OBS" threads that are already all over SI. IMHO, not telling the OBS is akin to the WS never telling their own BS.

I recently saw "The Descendants" and a line from the film really hit me. It's after Geo Clooney meets his wife's OM and OBS and is on the return flight when his eldest daughter's friend says Clooney really should have told the OBS bc otherwise "she'll just be another dumb bitch".

Can you imagine if the OBS knew and didn't tell you? How many times might OBS run into your WW and engage in pleasant convo, cuz OBS doesn't have a clue and you have the key to the secrets she NEEDS to know (not to mention the possibility that her WH is screwing around elsewhere and potentially exposing her to STDs).

I can give a ton of reasons, but at the end of the day, it all comes down to it being the right & moral thing to do.

How much should this cost? How do you select the right venue?

You can get a good polygraph for $500-600. Takes about two hours. Look for someone with a law enforcement background.

This is one reason why I recommend a betrayal trauma specialist as an IC for you. They can often recommend a polygraph examiner they work with.

Unfortunately infidelity is a booming business - so polygraph examiners increasingly offer this service for infidelity situations specifically

didn't see anything about blowing up someone else's marriage or informing the OBS - in this book, or in any of the other books I've read.

The Linda McDonald book is a supplement to the other advice you’ll get here at SI.

Telling the OBS is SOP.

I don’t get the resistance here. We’re not recommending you act like a lunatic. We’re recommending you take action. All I can tell you is it works. It stops the fantasy cold.

I can also tell you that like you I hesitated on this and I believe it allowed a certain dynamic to play out that was unhealthy. I waited a year to reach out to the OBS. I should have told her on DDAY. Please don’t be me.

You’re not blowing up anything. Your WW and the OM did that. You are just picking up the pieces and seeing what there is to salvage — and you’re giving the OBS back her autonomy and agency.

As for McDonald’s Christian credentials who cares? That isn’t why we recommend it. We recommend it because it doesn’t beat around the bush and gives unvarnished direct advice.

She states at the beginning of the book that’s where she’s coming from and I think she even says skip over it if it doesn’t resonate with you. You should not allow that to derail the other advice she has — and you can clearly see your WW isn’t measuring up.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:06 PM, September 21st (Monday)]

Timeline: I have the facts, and her story is consistent

One more time: that isn’t the only reason we recommend the timeline. We ask you to do it so she is forced to write it out and confront it in black and white for herself. It’s much easier to provide rationalizations for something if you’re only having to do it verbally.

There’s a better chance for the ugliness of it to sink in with her when she’s having to write it down. The ugliness is much harder to mask.

but since you’re now asking about a polygraph I’m betting you have doubts you have the whole truth. Hint: you probably don’t. A written timeline combined with a polygraph gets the truth in the open.

The other thing a written timeline does it stop the “which lie did I tell?” gambit. She commits it to paper and you can go back to that as a reference. Verbal versions get positively slippery with elisions and half truths. Written versions make liars balk because they are having to be specific.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:03 PM, September 21st (Monday)]

This poor OBS DESERVES to know the truth.

You have it and yet you sit on it and do NOTHING!!

All I've read is you making excuse after excuse for not telling this woman.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do NOTHING"!!!

As long as you keep your piehole shut you are an accomplice to this EVIL affair and you're also selfish.

If the roles were reversed you would want to know and yet you do nothing!!

Your wife brings OBS into your home and SMILES at her (as Chamomile mentioned).....just pure EVIL!!

Obviously no, "Oh OBS....little do you know that your husband and I have had sex in my home....would you like to see where".

You don't have the $ to file? Ok fine.

You know what doesn't cost you a damn dime.....TELLING THE OBS!!

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers,

The “tell the OBS” camp is pretty much all of SI. You’ll find very few here who recommend different.

Most of us are not sitting in the bleachers. We are down in the muck of it with you.

It was a huge mistake for me and for others not to tell the OBS. Others will tell you they took this decisive action and don’t regret it for a second.

Your situation is unique but it isn’t that unique. Because humans aren’t that unique. Infidelity situations are nauseatingly repetitive, but there is a set of things you can can in the early days that ensures a better outcome for you.

That said ... you do you.

I can give you one really good reason to tell the OBS if the argument that she deserves the truth isn't enough. I wound up with HPV, the nasty kind. I've had to have a number of examinations and cells removed for testing. No cancer yet, but it's something to watch. What if I put off getting yearly exams because I wasn't worried about anything? What if she is going about her life unconcerned and winds up with cancer? STD testing is important, but so is knowing that you have HPV. All kinds of testing seems much more important when you've discovered infidelity in your marriage.

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers, I'll keep reading.

Ok how about this.

My husband worked with his mother and sister.

Not only did they know he was cheating but everyone he worked with did.

I used to visit him at work. Everyone was always so nice, all smiles To. My. Face....while behind my back they were laughing and snickering about how awful a wife I must be that he was sleeping with every vagina in the place...

Do you have any idea how hard it was not only find out my husband was cheating but that everyone I knew there and my own in laws knew as well?

Do you have any idea how many nights I spent balling my eyes out feeling that I was completely alone?

It's been years since it all came out and I'm civil with his family for the sake of our children but I wont ever feel close to them ever again.

As far as I am concerned anyone who knew and didnt tell me was just as bad as my husband.

You dont even have to let her know it was you. A registered letter that she must sign for with a note saying that her husband is cheating is better than letting her go on oblivious, possibly risking her health!

Your platonic NYC friend is a red herring, thrown out there to make it seem like your behavior isn't any better than hers. It might sound like she's connecting with you, particularly if she can squeeze out a few crocodile tears, but it has no bearing at all on what's going on now. What's going on now is that she is an unrepentant adulteress who doesn't want to own her shit. And believe me, if they don't own it, every last damned jot of it, they're not sorry and they're not changing. I get that you aren't a religious person. I'm not overtly religious either. But one thing that stands clear, even without religious conviction, is that the first step in redemption is confession. Your WW did not transgress only against you. She fucked that woman's husband repeatedly, and then has the unmitigated gall to interact with her socially. She's NOT sorry. If she was, she'd be falling all over herself to make it right.

You asked OldWounds if you'll feel better when she "gets it"? She doesn't get it until she's actually repentant for what she's done. And that's not just about you, that's about EVERYONE she hurt. A WS has to STOP LYING. Period. End of discussion. Unless you're made of sterner stuff than the rest of us, your stomach will turn every time you watch her lie, because you'll know that she can still lie to you with the same ease.

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers, I'll keep reading.

If you're going to use a metaphor, you ought to use it correctly. A "Hail Mary" play is a sporting metaphor for a desperate, last-minute gamble by a team that is losing by a wide margin. It comes from American football (actually, from Catholic collegiate football), the idea of a losing quarterback throwing a pass as far and high and hard as he can, knowing that there will be a crowd of both offensive and defensive players downfield, hoping for some divine intervention as all of those players look up at the sky, faces upturned, arms outstretched, as if in prayer. Odds are highly against it working, but there is no other choice.

Telling the OBS is not about coming from behind and winning against all odds. Telling the OBS is simply the morally right thing to do. Like returning somebody's lost wallet with all cash and credit cards intact, or leaving a note with your contact info on a car you accidentally damage in a parking lot, or telling your recent sexual partner(s) that you've tested positive for a venereal disease. You don't do it because you think it will help you "win". You do it because it's the morally correct choice.

In your case, I don't know if you even have a clear idea of what "win" or "lose" looks like. Your wife is emotionally unstable at best (based on the facts you have presented), and she is an unrepentant cheater willing to shit on you and on her friend, yet, by your self-description, you are desperate to figure out a way to rug-sweep her infidelity and remain married to her, no matter what cost, which sounds like a "lose" to many of us, though you seem to perceive it as a "win". So go on convincing yourself that flirting with another girl umpteen years ago when you were dating your wife excuses her fucking her friend's husband in your house, and also in her friend's house, if that floats your boat.

In the meantime, don't be a man who perpetrates continued dishonesty toward a married woman. There is a ton of experience here on SI about telling the OBS. Dozens of threads. I doubt you've read them because you are intentionally engaged on a path of confirmation bias in terms of your information-gathering. However, virtually every BS who has told the OBS has found it to be salutary and helpful. At worst, a few have found it unsatisfying, not the catharsis they had hoped for.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:38 AM, September 22nd (Tuesday)]

You have mentioned that professionals haven't said you should tell his wife. Then there was the hail Mary comment.

Maybe you don't realize we are not just random people who joined a forum to tell people what to do. We are here because we have been cheated on. We have been where you are. Those of us who have stayed, to pay it forward, have seen enough that we know what works, and what doesn't. While individuals may be unique, cheaters are remarkably similar. So much so we joke about them using a cheaters handbook.

Being a professional is all well and good. But please don't disregard us nameless, faceless name on a screen. We have hard earned knowledge based on having been through this. Many professionals can't say that.

Some professionals know what they're talking about. Many don't. Many advocate rugsweeping. They blame the BS. They see no need for honesty or transparency. We have seen many of these professionals give really bad advice.

You seem to not want to tell his wife,because you don't see how it is a good thing for you. So,ok. Instead of telling you why its the right thing to do,and thats why you should tell, I will tell you why it's the best thing for you.

Eventually, she will find out. She will come across a text. Or an email. Or pics. He will slip up. Or maybe someone who knows will tell her. And then she finds out you knew and chose to keep their secrets. So that furthers her humiliation. Everyone knew but her. She will go scorched earth. She will tell everyone. The kids will eventually hear about it. It will be the talk of the town. She will confront your wife. It will be very public.

But if you tell her, you can show her you are her allie, not her enemy. You can ask her,out of respect for you, to please try and keep this quiet, so that you, and she, are not subject to public humiliation. And so the kids never find out. And,since you are the only one who respected her enough to tell her the truth, she will owe you. She will most likely respect your request.

Another reason to tell..if you don't, then you have no control over anything. You are always waiting for that shoe to drop. If you tell now, then you won't be waiting for that confrontation, and the fall out.

I told. I'm glad I did. It didn't end my marriage. Or hers. Her husband was grateful.

I don’t get the resistance here. We’re not recommending you act like a lunatic. We’re recommending you take action. All I can tell you is it works. It stops the fantasy cold.

I don't get the resistance to tell the OBS either unless for you it feels like it's done for revenge. It honestly doesn't matter why you're doing it, but as others have said (and the consensus on here will be universal) it's the right thing to do. Wouldn't you want to know?? Maybe you wouldn't, maybe you don't and that's your hesitation.

I also believe that your WS's unresolved issue with whatever went on 23 years ago is a red herring. In truth, if it had bothered her and she had appropriate coping mechanisms she could have dragged you into MC to try and resolve it. Or sought IC for herself. But that's not the route she took. She has demonstrated other questionable decisions over a period of decades but you don't seem to be connecting those dots together. It comes down to this: having an A is a an example of a host of poor decisions that as you rightly point out have led her to self destructive acts. You have and are enabling that to a certain degree and by refusing to "blow up the OBS's marriage" you remain complicit. That's your role. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. And you're doing nothing to effect consequences for both the OM and your WS.

@ Oldwounds - how long did it take you to get through the anger and resentment? Until your WW "got it" ? I'll try to look around and see if I can find your story. Thanks for the words.

Anger? It took two years to process most of my anger and to return to reason. I don't do resentment anymore. Resentment really is just like the bumper sticker says, -- "it's like drinking poison expecting the other person to die."

But anger, yeah, that's well earned after betrayal. Roll with it. Use it. Find strength from it.

How long before my wife understood the damage she caused? Way too long. She kept her A secret for YEARS.

It's kind of why people are being direct with you about telling the other betrayed spouse. That AP's wife, she doesn't have a choice to live an authentic life - until she KNOWS the truth. Only the WS lives reality as it happens, not us.

It takes a while to figure it all out.

Your dday is in August?

It may be awhile until you understand enough of your new trauma to be able to make a 'good' decision about what you want and need.

ChamomileTea summed up what your wife needs to do and hasn't done yet. Your WS needs to own all of her choices. All of them, and to stop deflecting about any of her old resentments. And how did those resentments serve your WS anyway?

I find some WS are decent folks who make horrible choices, or they can be bad people simply revealing themselves (or somewhere in between).

It could be too early to know any of that about your WS. Her deflection so far is textbook so soon after dday.

I'm fifth year now after discovery, and I am through the anger, and my wife did "get it" -- we're doing much better, so it does happen. But it ain't easy.

Again. It's very early for you in this mess.

Most important part now is get your feet underneath you.

None of your wife's choices are YOUR fault.

Just meet for coffee or a phone call. You don't have to put anything in writing to the OBS. Show her the video and the timeline but don't give her a copy.

I think I recall the OM said he cheated before and therefore he will probably continue to hurt people and destroy marriages - all because his wife doesn't know for sure. You're doing the world a service by exposing this POS.

My POS was a 'respected' deacon in our church.

I was reluctant like you but afterwards I felt relief - like a 800 pound weight had been lifted.

I don't know why. Whether the sensation related to a feeling of revenge, or me just being tired of seeing him every week and the lies and carrying it all by myself, or maybe because I felt OBS had a right to know that she was being abused (adultery is abuse). Maybe a combination of emotions.

Upon exposure the OM immediately reacted like a spineless cowardly wimp. The OM not only threw my wife under the bus blaming her - but full exposure & his reaction also revealed to my wife and the world what a POS he is.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:11 PM, September 21st (Monday)]

If any of you in the "tell the OBS" camp want to direct me to credible success stories, instead of calling hail mary plays from the bleachers, I'll keep reading.

FULL EXPOSURE typically kills the "beautiful, exciting and romantic" aspect of an A and replaces it with pure shame and ugliness, the more she hates the A, the more she will hate the POSOM and the less likely she will be to cheat again in the future, it also typically provides you with another set of eyes to help enforce NC, compare notes and access to more info about the A. EXPOSURE to OBS typically forces the AP to throw the WS under the bus in an effort to save his/her own M, this is like a bucket of iced water thrown in the face of the WS, all of a sudden they realize they were nothing but a convenient booty call instead of "soulmates made in heaven", it also helps with remorse (just like writing the timeline and reading it out loud to you).

You mentioned you want R, the collective wisdom of SI favors EXPOSURE and telling OBS, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script, just look at your member number, we've seen this play out THOUSANDS of times here on SI and other websites. Those who heed the advice and take decisive and quick action typically have much better results.

Tell the other BS, she deserves to know.

My x gave me pubic lice, I discovered it first and ASSUMED I somehow gave it to him! Never thought for a second I got it from him. I remember doing mental gymnastics about how I was using a different cloth chair at work and must have gotten it from that. So trusting, naive, and stupid.

A few years later I got HPV and had to have surgery. Had NEVER had an abnormal pap. My gynecologist looked me straight in the eye and asked me if either of us had been with someone else. I literally gasped and said of course not. So trusting, naive, and stupid.

After dday and I was able to start thinking clearly....these things and others came back with a vengeance. I was no longer trusting, naive, or stupid.

I would venture a guess this woman has talked herself out of questioning something or been gaslighted by him. She deserves the truth. We all did.

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 12:30 AM, September 22nd (Tuesday)]

I'm the betrayed spouse that was never informed. I had a gut feeling that something was going on, she treated me like shit, I confronted and was met with denial, upon denial.

Back in the day before cell phones I could never find any evidence, I traveled for my job so it was easy for her to take it underground.

After I confronted her, her affair partner asked me to be on his golf team and I played golf with him for the next 5 years, and man was that genius... it completely threw me off track because no one could be that devious, that low, could they?

Anyway some 35 years later the other betrayed spouse of my wife's second affair partner had learned about what was going on back then and informed me of the affair with her husband.

So after all of those years I confronted my wife again about my gut feelings from back then and she confessed to both affairs. One long term affair and one fling as she called it.

I learned that her AP asked me to play golf to throw me off track after I confronted my wife, I never understood why we stopped playing.....Yep, it was when they broke up. Now my life was starting to make sense.

I called the OBS from the first affair and asked if she knew about the affair between her husband and my wife...YEP SHE DID all those years but did not tell me.

For the love of God, tell the other betrayed spouse because I guarantee you she at least knows that something is not right, or maybe she knows more than you!

onelifeoflies