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If a woman does not want to date a guy who had sex with several women at once, engaged in various other things, etc. I'm completely in support of her right to do so. She gets to make that choice, the same as the guy gets to make it for himself.

Same. Everyone has the right to decide who they want to date, and why. What I'm struggling to make sense of is,

For me...if my wife told me she'd been gangbanged or Eiffel towered in the past....dealbreaker. I'd have stopped seeing her immediately.

Obviously I'm taking this personally, but it doesn't make sense why being eiffel towered years ago and being honest about it matters. What does that tell you about me? Other than I'm honest? The only person I've had sex with in the last decade is my WH. Who, again, was the one that had only had sex in monogamous relationships with two other women he had dated prior to dating me. He'd never had a gangbang or threesome or anything like that. Yet he was the one that cheated. But... I would be the undateable one? Based on a single sexual experience from my past.

The second one is about values and preferences. You absolutely have the right to engage in these things if you find willing participants. You, however, do not have the right to demand people for whom this is a no go accept you regardless.

Perhaps the problem here is that I try not to judge others, and to be accepting, as long as everyone is honest, consenting, and not actively or purposefully choosing to hurt someone else.

What this is saying is that if there were no consequences for such actions people would be more honest. Guess what? The same applies to pretty much everything else. If there were no consequences for running up debt, people wouldn't be so reluctant to disclose it. Stop debt shaming!

And there's a big difference between carrying around a sizeable amount of debt -- which will affect things like your ability to buy a house, have children, live a certain lifestyle, and having a dick in your mouth and in your vagina at the same time on one occasion many, many years ago. As far as I can tell, it's left no lasting side effects -- didn't get pregnant, didn't catch an STD, and hasn't prevented me in any way, shape or form from living a fairly average American life, married with two kids, and just tryna be a decent human being.

If it matters to someone it matters. Who are you to decide? They get to decide that. Don’t like it? then don’t be their monogamous partner and find someone else that doesn’t think it matters.

I don’t know why this is so hard.

All of the slut shaming talk here completely elides the fact that if a potential male partner had a background as an S&M master with his own “red room” it would certainly be relevant information that any woman would want to know. It wouldn’t be slut shaming a man for a woman to want to know this. And it would be depriving her of agency to withhold this information, so get real. 

Everyone should be honest with their partners! Period! The only way having an S&M room matters is IF THAT PERSON WANTS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE S&M RELATIONSHIPS.

If they tried S&M out and decided it was fun, but not for them, and they turned their S&M dungeon into a game room or spate bedroom, then WHY would it matter in a new relationship?

Because some folks hold and carry sexual values. They are entitled to that. Why do your choices trump anyone else’s? Don’t worry, there are all kinds of guys willing to be in a relationship with someone who has been Eiffel towered, this isn’t about you.

If it matters to someone it matters. Who are you to decide? They get to decide that. Don’t like it? then don’t be their monogamous partner and find someone else that doesn’t think it matters.

I don’t know why this is so hard.

I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T MATTER TO SOMEONE! I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT DOES! I absolutely agree with you that if it matters, then you shouldn't be their monogamous partner. But I'm trying to understand why a certain sexual act and/or multiple partners in someone's past negates everything else about them?

The only way having an S&M room matters is IF THAT PERSON WANTS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE S&M RELATIONSHIPS

I gotta think that most of the women here on SI - whether they are betrayed or wayward - are scoffing at your contention that it would ONLY matter to them if this hypothetical man was still polishing his restraints and vacuuming his shag carpet in his creepy well maintained red room. That a woman wouldn’t find this relevant even if in the past is just laughable. I mean, really. No, really.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:53 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

But I'm trying to understand why a certain sexual act and/or multiple partners in someone's past negates everything else about them?

I don’t think anyone said this. I certainly didn’t. But like everything else about a person, I would find it relevant information and I would want to know.

Practice saying this with me: “if it’s a deal breaker for you, it’s a deal breaker for me.”

This perfect line works both ways in almost every situation where someone has a boundary.

I think people are entitled to be as particular as they want in selection even if it ridiculous superficial to the point that the very notion of their standards may offend others. It’s the beauty about freedom; you are free to be choose and accept the consequences of your choice. If a man will only date a woman who looks like a Barbie doll and passes over objectively beautiful and compatible partners, that’s his prerogative. If the guy isn’t a Ken doll and/or a Daddy Warbucks and is a complete offensive pig, then the dating market will bear.

Now, if a person never asked and married someone who didn’t lie but never disclosed, by the vows that person took, I believe they have a duty to try to come to terms with it. But if they can’t, what can you do? It’s unfair, but reality is there is no fairness or justice is relationships.

[This message edited by KingRat at 12:59 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

Maybe I'm a little jaded,due to my personal experience. Aren't we all?

Several months into my relationship,my then boyfriend started telling me it was his fantasy to have a threesome. He wanted to watch me with another man. Sorry,not interested. I'm adventurous in the bedroom, as long as it doesn't involve other people.

Five years into our marriage, he started bringing it up more, and more. I loved him. I wanted to give him this fantasy,so I said ok.

Right before we started looking for a guy, he lets it slip that he has actually done this before. That he and an ex had done exactly what he had been telling me was his fantasy.

So what I was about to do wouldn't have been his first. It wouldn't have been special. And,as I said, it wasn't something I was particularly interested in.

I had every right to know he had done that before. I felt extremely betrayed.

If you tell your spouse you did the entire school,or all of your co-workers at a Christmas party before you met them,and they don't care then good for you. But if you lie when they ask about t your sexual history, then that spouse may just decide to leave you. A lie is a lie is a lie.

It sounds like some people here think it's ok to lie to your partner, because you don't want to deal with the consequences.

Ideally, I'd like to know if you've ever been involved in an affair or came close to that. But the person would most likely lie about it so I don't see the point in asking.

Just don't keep your exes or other interested men orbiting around you, that's the only thing I want and it would be a dealbreaker if it wasn't so.

HellFire, I don’t think anybody here would tell you that your husband was right to lie to you. Using manipulation to get somebody to do something they don’t want to do is a big no. That’s never ok and I’m sorry you went through that.

Obviously I'm taking this personally, but it doesn't make sense why being eiffel towered years ago and being honest about it matters. What does that tell you about me?

I didn't even know what it was until I googled it. Lol. But since it was put out there I commented on it.

What it tells me is that you put less value into sex than I do. I would never share a female with another man. And if I knew she had done it, I'd never date a female that was on the receiving end of it.

Obviously I'm taking this personally, but it doesn't make sense why being eiffel towered years ago and being honest about it matters. What does that tell you about me? Other than I'm honest? The only person I've had sex with in the last decade is my WH. Who, again, was the one that had only had sex in monogamous relationships with two other women he had dated prior to dating me. He'd never had a gangbang or threesome or anything like that. Yet he was the one that cheated. But... I would be the undateable one? Based on a single sexual experience from my past.

Because you were Eifel towered. Because you are the kind of woman who engages in gangbangs. Because you are fine with that, it's not a deal-breaker for you. Others are not fine with that. It's about as much a deal breaker as diaper play, scat, etc. It doesn't tell them that you're honest, admitting to it does, it tells them that you're the type of woman who engages in these things.

Perhaps the problem here is that I try not to judge others, and to be accepting, as long as everyone is honest, consenting, and not actively or purposefully choosing to hurt someone else.

Everyone judges, especially prospective partners. I'm open to a hell of a lot of things a female partner might want to try. But I draw the line at anything that involves another guy. Past, present, and future. I'm sorry, I personally could never see a woman who had five guys go to town on her at once as the mother of my children. Same as others couldn't see some guy who likes to wear diapers and shit himself as the father of theirs.

which will affect things like your ability to buy a house, have children, live a certain lifestyle, and having a dick in your mouth and in your vagina at the same time on one occasion many, many years ago. As far as I can tell, it's left no lasting side effects

You can make the same excuse for basically ANYTHING. Engaging in these activities, to begin with, shows people where your values, interests, and norms lie. That's fine. Find someone who shares them and be happy. Don't expect others to just accept and go "okay!". The problem here, in my opinion, arises from people wanting their cake and to eat it too. They want to do whatever they want, when they want, how they want. Yet don't want to be judged for it or have it affect them in any kind of way going forward. That just doesn't work.

My opinion is simply that it is okay to have either opinion, but then date someone who shares that opinion.

I believe it's perfectly fine for someone to say they don't want to talk about their sexual past. It's personal information and as long as they get STI testing, it really is not a requirement to share, it can be a preference.

On that note, I would not date someone who refused to disclose, but not solely on that grounds. I would assume that someone who wasn't comfortable talking openly about sex is someone who is not a good match for me. I want to hear all about their sex details with other partners so I know what they like and dislike, what they have tried and what they haven't so we can go from there. If they won't even discuss it, I doubt they want to go over my nice long sexual questionnaire lol. It's a lot more fun than it sounds.

But I am firmly of the belief that people get to decide for themselves what to disclose. You get to decide how entangled you want to get with someone based on how closely their level of disclosure matches what you want. Healthy boundaries for all.

I do think that choosing to date or not to date someone based on sexual acts they have done is a really disgusting example of slut shaming, but in that case, perhaps it's better that that particular person removes themselves from the dating pool because they are clearly not compatible. Or also based on sexual orientation- I've seen this most commonly with women who refuse to date bisexual (monogamous) men. I find that pretty appalling, too.

[This message edited by PSTI at 1:57 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T MATTER TO SOMEONE! I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT DOES! I absolutely agree with you that if it matters, then you shouldn't be their monogamous partner. But I'm trying to understand why a certain sexual act and/or multiple partners in someone's past negates everything else about them?

Any previous behavior is an indicator of the person. In the simplest model it would be a scale, weighing your behaviors and making a subjective determination as to your character.

You must accept that your acts/actions/behaviors in the past can/should and will be used by perspective partner to determine your suitablity. It not any different than reviewing a resume.

To argue otherwise is not logical and seems to be founded in avoiding responsiblity for previous choices.

And I'm with ibonnie, I'm seeing a whole hell of a lot of judgment right here in this thread.

There is no such thing as the "kind of person" who engages in broader types of sexual activity. Only people who do. They are all kinds of people. And it says absolutely nothing about ethics or morals or values.

And frankly, no, if the hypothetical dude in the red room no longer engaged in BDSM, then it's not a future partner's business unless he wishes to share it. It's a sexual act that he used to do and no longer wishes to do. It's not like there are any lasting effects like a giant D branded onto his forehead :P

Just because you aren't into something, doesn't mean that people who are into it are bad or toxic or anything else. Sexuality is healthy and normal, and most people fantasize about it. If you can't even talk to your partner about sex without fearing judgment, I think you are setting your relationship up to fail anyway.

[This message edited by PSTI at 2:14 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

Honestly, I was just chatting with my partners about how I think a lot of people have very dissatisfying sex lives, or else just don't know how much better it could be.

But if people feel scared to even communicate about sex, I think that's a big part of it. I would be worried to talk about my likes and dislikes with someone who might suddenly decide they didn't want to date me because of it. Or maybe I masturbate too much. Who knows.

Do you ever think that maybe having such rigid standards about sex makes people more likely to cheat? It doesn't make it any more okay, but I think it could be a contributing factor.

[This message edited by PSTI at 2:25 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

I dont think being “less adventurous” (I feel like rigid has negative connotations) makes you more likely to cheat, myself. I had more sexual experiences than LLCAH (low life cheating Asshat) before we married. In number and kind, probably. But the deal was monogamy and I stuck to it, he didn’t, he actually seemed to think I’d be just ducky with him seeing prostitutes. Uh, NO. The issue isn’t sex, it’s boundaries and respect.

Had we discussed a threesome or whatever, fine. (I never would be ok with sex workers, as it’s so exploitative though). The issue is the non discussion.

In my dating life, which is new again after 24 years, I’ve found slut shaming galore. One guy- a kid really, he was like 15 years younger- I went out with ONE time, no sex, slut shamed me for having a dinner date with someone else. Like we went out once so now he...owns me? Really?! And I’m open about my history, that I’m divorcing, but a common topic seems to be how long it’s been since I’ve had sex. Everyone thinks they must be the first in a long time. Well, someone was, but it’s not you buddy and why the fuck do you care? If you want to sleep with me it’s logical others do too. Tell them the truth and they get puzzled...but I only tell the truth. It IS a good way to weed out the no’s I suppose!

No time for feeding men’s egos here. I lost 24 years to that tool, and for what? You like sex and I do too, so knock it off, it’s 2019.

[This message edited by Maudlin at 8:15 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]

blahblah summed it up quite well. It's a bit interesting that any attempt to explain such as his is just outright ignored and never even acknowledged.

I'm seeing a whole hell of a lot of judgment right here in this thread.

People judge other people, people judge even more when determining whether someone is a suitable partner. People judge things all day long. It's how we come to conclusions and make decisions.

It's a sexual act that he used to do and no longer wishes to do. It's not like there are any lasting effects like a giant D branded onto his forehead :P

Untrue. Promiscuity, fetishes, etc all say a lot about someone's preferences, values, and morals. They are also very good indicators of future behaviours, preferences, and interests. Pretending otherwise is dishonest. If someone constantly makes bad financial decisions people will come to the conclusion he or she is bad with money. Even if they didn't do so for a month or two before entering their new relationship. Yet a threesome two days before going "exclusive" somehow "IS IN THE PAST AND NOBODIES BUSINESS!"?

Just because you aren't into something, doesn't mean that people who are into it are bad or toxic or anything else. Sexuality is healthy and normal, and most people fantasize about it. If you can't even talk to your partner about sex without fearing judgment, I think you are setting your relationship up to fail anyway.

People have boundaries, people have no-goes. People do not need to be forced to accept things that lie outside of them at gunpoint lest they're made out to be "bad partners" and "setting their relationship up to fail". That's ridiculous. If you have engaged or are interested in engaging in acts that a partner has as a hard no-go then that is simply the end of the road for that partnership. That doesn't mean the partner is "intolerant", "slut-shaming", "judgemental", or any other buzzword. It just means you're incompatible.

Do you ever think that maybe having such rigid standards about sex makes people more likely to cheat? It doesn't make it any more okay, but I think it could be a contributing factor.

Obviously. If everyone was into open relationships with no rules then nobody would cheat! Otherwise, no. Cheaters are more likely to cheat again than non-cheaters. There is some data indicating that promiscuous people are actually more likely to step out and less capable of pair bonding and maintaining long term relationships.

Marauder, there is a huge difference between something someone is currently doing, and something someone has done and no longer does. I think you're missing that distinction.

Yes, I think judging someone for something they have done in the past and no longer do makes someone a judgemental person and quite possibly an intolerant one.

I'm a big believer in differences making people incompatible without any labeling of right or wrong, but I think that in this case, there is most definitely a wrong.

[This message edited by PSTI at 3:23 PM, November 28th (Thursday)]