Well. I have read this thread most of the way through three or four times, and each time, I ended up closing it before responding because I had reactions of anger on both sides, both those vehemently for and vehemently against requiring full disclosure.
I am going to be 100% clear. I am one of the 'vehemently for disclosure' types. I personally feel that if one cannot share the intimate details of ones life with someone, there is a block there that will inhibit a relationship in some way. Some others don't feel that way and have managed to have long and fulfilling relationships regardless, and, well, more power to them.
It has also been a point that, were it a dead horse, it would have been beaten into paste, the lying about it is the primary ethical issue. I agree. I also take a bit of personal issue with the whole "refused to do these things with me but did them willingly with others" part, but that is more of an emotional reaction and not grounded in ethics or morality, IMO. If someone doesn't have the drive to do something sexual with someone, even their partner, they shouldn't have to.
Now, to the substance of this thread.
I was a virgin when my STBXW and I first had sex, and to my understanding, so was she. I'm not sure if I 100% believe that at this point, but I don't have any direct evidence to contradict that, nor do I have any solid suspicions as to who may have been a previous first, but it is frankly neither here nor there. There was pretty much no sexual history to share. I'd fooled around with exactly three girls before her, mostly heavy petting and makeouts, but never any sex. I shared this experience when she asked in as much detail as she wanted me to with no reservation.
My STBXW has had at least four other partners since we first slept together, two of which she did not disclose for years, and two of which she did not sleep with until after she stopped sleeping with me, but before she told me we were done (her current OM and OW). I suspect at least two more, but I cannot prove it, and at this point, I am not interested in digging for proof since we are done and it is irrelevant. I have been tested for STDs and I came back completely negative across the board, so it isn't a health issue, it's an "added layers of betrayal" issue. I have enough right now, thank you, I don't need any more.
When I saw the photos that were taken of her most recent sexual odyssey, where she spent a week of threesomes with the degenerates, there were multiple things that stood out to me.
She engaged in letting the OW perform oral on her. That is one of my favorite things to do in bed, and she hasn't let me since 2013. It was a sore spot. She said that she did not enjoy it at all and didn't want to, so I did not push it.
She was on top of OM. She refused to do this with me.
She performed oral on OM and OW. She would seldom do this for me (twice in the last three years).
She engaged in DP with toys and the OM, something I had expressed strong interest in, but she refused, said she had no interest at all. Since she has come home and we are IHS, I have found multiple toys allowing her to perform it on herself that have been left in view as I go through her bedroom and into the main household.
She obviously engaged on an FMM threesome, which I had expressed a willingness to do so that she could explore her interest in women. She refused to do so with me.
I do not judge her for these acts. I would be a hypocrite if I did. I do not find the acts themselves immoral or unethical. I mean, provided it's not illegal or abusive, dude, whatever torques your pork, have fun, fuck it, who cares?
But withholding them from me when she obviously had an interest hurts. Performing them with another man and woman hurts. Seeing those pictures hurt. Lying about them hurt. Mocking me that she chose to do them with others because I was insufficient hurts. It's the lies, the deception, the dismissal, and the rejection that is the problem.
Rejection hurts. It's never fun, never positive or pleasant. I'm not saying that a person needs to never be able to reject their partner, sometimes it happens, but.. rejection hurts. When enough rejection and enough hurt and enough lies build up, that will absolutely make a person no longer suitable as a partner.
Now that I am looking for a new partner (or at least keeping my eyes open), yes, I am going to be discerning. I am going to make sure that whoever I choose is going to fit my personal criteria. I want a woman who is not obese; I do not find obese women attractive. That is my personal preference. I am open to skin tone, eye color, hair color, but right now, I find the idea of a latina woman attractive, and so am more likely to pursue a latina woman. Perhaps that's a bit of fetishization on my part, but what, should I AVOID latina women because I acknowledge I find THAt particular part of who they are (their appearance) attractive?
That's absurd. It would be like making myself go for an overweight white woman who was taller than me simply because I prefer a petite latina women who is shorter. That seems really ass backwards. I mean, I wouldn't want to be someones "choice of ethics over attraction," why should I do the same? Piss on that.
You can call it discrimination if you wish, to pick someone that fits your desires and reject someone who doesn't, you can call it prejudice not to choose someone who has traits that you find unappealing, but the fact is that we, as humans, operate on that wavelength every single day. We choose foods that we find appealing and reject ones that we find unappealing. We travel to places we find appealing and avoid places we do not. We associate with people who have traits that appeal to us, and stay away from people who have traits we find objectionable for whatever reason.
In a partner, I do not want a trans-woman. I have nothing against trans-women personally or ethically, but I do not put them into my potential partner pool for multiple reasons. I do not want an obese woman because I am not physically attracted to obese women, and I need to be attracted to my partner. I do not want a woman that is taller than me, because I like to be taller than my partner. I am not necessarily seeking a black woman because, in general, I am not attracted to black women, but I have nothing against them and if I DID meet a black woman I was attracted to and fit the rest of my criteria, I would absolutely pursue a relationship with her.
I do understand that some people can take the reaction to previous sexual history to the level of 'slut shaming,' and that is not okay. If the act itself is not immoral, then there is no reason to judge someone for something they did before they even fuckin' knew you existed. I mean, ffs, have some perspective. But honesty, openness, and intimacy are key to a successful relationship, and without that holy trinity, the relationship will suffer.
[This message edited by Incarnate at 9:11 AM, November 29th (Friday)]
