SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Without the lying, without the deception, if she had straight up told him "sure, I did anal, gangbangs, deep throating, etc. But you get boring once a month minimum dead fish sex!" this marriage would likely never have come to be.

I'm blown away and sad that many men have expressed that without ^^^^^^ these things, their sex life is boring and "dead fish"....really? So you can only experience orgasim and classify a good sex life if you're being deep throated and giving it to her up the ass etc?

It's as if you still see woman as a possession, that she owes you everything shes ever done with someone else, whether she liked it or not.

Ok I had a previous partner who enjoyed prostate massage and I enjoyed giving it. So I should demand that from my WH? If he had tried it with a previous partner and decided it wasnt for him should I still be ordering the newest prostate toys and insisting he do it? Because who the hell knows I may be better at stimulating it that the previous woman? Or because I'm his wife, I deserve the right to try....

Hell No!

The only thing I'd be upset with and the issue brought up in the OP is lying. If wh had tried it but held that back from me. My concern would be why he felt uncomfortable telling me when we are supposed to be a couple.

The problem in each of these threads isn't the sex acts but the lack of communication from both parties involved.

Sure it's her right to do and she owes him nothing. However, the same goes for him. He owes her absolutely nothing either. Yet that part is happily omitted.

Where has that been omitted? If the guy doesn’t want to do something he has done in his past, it’s also his right to say no. My first husband didn’t like giving oral sex. He had done it with his first girlfriend and didn’t like it so he didn’t want to do it with me. I didn’t sit there and say well you did it with so and so, so you have to do it with me. No, it was his right to say no.

I think we’ve established the lying was bad. However, the judgement, sexism, shaming, etc., in this thread is gross. Men are seen as valuable if they have a threesome and women are promiscuous? Give me a f’ing break. It’s not even an excusable double standard, no matter how you try to spin it.

Are they worse partners for people who have different values, boundaries, etc. Absolutely!

Fixed it for you.

Are they worse people? No. Nobody ever even said that.

When people start comparing people who’ve had a varied sexual past to people who cheat, I think that’s exactly what people are saying.

It’s this thought that a trans woman isn’t a real woman

A man who has had his junk surgically mutilated in order to look like a facsimile of a woman’s vagina is still a man. He’s just a man wearing makeup and women’s clothing, walking around with a mutilated penis that a plastic surgeon molded to look like something else.

Let’s assume that the original story is true, and that is a massive assumption because really? Sounds pretty fake to me...

Yes it’s made up. As we’ve discussed in the thread previously

I will say something about lying and non-disclosure. It is not always about lying. There are things you need to disclose to the other partner. It is supposed to be an intimate relationship based on trust.

My ex left me for her current hubby. She knew this guy very well before we ever met. I don't know if they were ever a couple. She disclosed other partners, voluntarily, but since she omitted him who knows what they ever did. He was single and unattached when we married. She didn't go for him because he was a commitment phobe at the time and wouldn't give her the marriage and children she wanted as well. So she married me, I gave her the kids, then she dumped me as soon as he was willing to be a step-dad. So she got everything. Him, his money, kids, and a nice little paycheck to her home every month.

Did my ex LIE to me about her real feelings for this guy? No. Well, yes, because of the vows. The vows are all encompassing. My ex violated her vows the moment she said them. I would have gotten an annulment if it mattered. Plus I want to maintain that I am the legitimate father of my children. Other than that, the marriage wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit due to the "selective nondisclosure" of my ex.

So my advice to those who choose to marry is to grill away on sexual history and walk if there is nondisclosure or something you don't like. Personally a reduced sexual menu in marriage from single days is a big red flag. Why are you marrying? Seems like the person who wants to do that is marrying for what they can get out of it, not because they want to commit to a united marriage.

Men are seen as valuable if they have a threesome and women are promiscuous?

One poster said that. Conflating that statement to try and prove a point does anything but.

Also, you missed misogyny in your quick list of buzzwords.

[This message edited by Loukas at 10:37 AM, November 29th (Friday)]

She doesn’t owe her husband anything just because she has done it in the past.

Correct.

He also doesn’t owe her anything. She is owed no special dispensation just because she’s female or because of some vague grievance study theory that she’s being shamed simply by having the question asked.

He can ask. He’s not being *judgmental* in asking but he is allowed to use his own good *judgement* measured against whatever standards he chooses to have as a free person.

She can demur or lie.

He can say have a nice life and he can find a different woman.

This isn’t hard.

The “past” is such an ill defined concept in this discussion as to be logically incoherent and ethically problematic. In fact the way it is being deployed here sounds a lot like what waywards say.

And no man or woman is *required* to date anyone for any reason or any new gender fluid theory.

Also, you missed misogyny in your quick list of buzzwords.

Yeah, let’s be dismissive of my comment because I used “buzzwords”.

I have every right to discriminate in who I choose to marry. To be very selective. I'm not judging who they are as a person, only comparing to my standards I have in a wife. You banged 4 guys at once and filmed it? more power to you, but you are not wife material for me.

Hell, if that's slut shaming, so be it. Guess I am a misogynist then. Don't really care tho.

@cocoplus5nuts

No, it doesn't. Where is the comparison in that statement? "That guy is so much hotter that this guy," is a comparison.

Because from the get-go you need a reference point to make such judgments. This means you are very much aware of average people, as well as ugly people and comparing people based on your own experiences.

They are just too offensive and misogynistic.

Hollow buzzwords, let's try and just throw everything out and hope something sticks?

I think that a lot of men just will not understand. That's not a statement against men. There are some men who refuse to even try to understand. I think most men are not like that. However, if you haven't experienced it, it's extremely difficult to understand it.

Oh, look, hypocrisy as well as misandry. You assume guys aren't constantly being judged, aren't being discriminated against, never experience any of these things. Both men and women judge each other, themselves, as well as their own gender constantly.

@DragnHeart

So you can only experience orgasim and classify a good sex life if you're being deep throated and giving it to her up the ass etc?

Do I have to dig up where some women in this thread argued that such things are completely normal, healthy, and people who don't think so are just repressed and possibly more likely to be cheaters? This entire thing is a circular argument, where you guys constantly run away with the goalpost. Also, you're taking this out of context, you're ignoring how someone was completely willing and happy to engage in this with random strangers for prolonged times but thinks it's too much of a bother and effort to do it with their spouse whom they supposedly love and cherish. That alone tells you a lot about how much they value their sex life with their spouse.

It's as if you still see woman as a possession, that she owes you everything shes ever done with someone else, whether she liked it or not.

That's a gross misrepresentation of the argument being made. Nobody said she owes that to him. She owes him nothing. However, neither does he owe her anything, including a relationship or marriage.

@landclark

However, the judgement, sexism, shaming, etc., in this thread is gross.

Holy mother of buzzword salads. Not wanting to date a woman because she had trains run on her, was the centerpiece of gangbangs, loved to get all holes plugged, etc. Isn't shaming, sexism, etc. It's the guy having deal breakers. Saying otherwise is pure entitlement, judgemental on your end, and sexism. Because apparently men aren't allowed to have deal-breakers.

Also what has been omitted is that he doesn't just have a right not to perform certain sex acts for her he did engage in in the past. He has a right to not want to date her whatsoever.

@Thumos

He also doesn’t owe her anything. She is owed no special dispensation just because she’s female or because of some vague grievance study theory that she’s being shamed simply by having the question asked.

This entire thread is honestly sad. You have a handful of women here throw out every buzzword they can think of to shame, put down, and belittle men. Because they dare exclude them from a pool of potential partners. All while pretty much ticking all the boxes for the accusations they made towards others.

I have every right to discriminate in who I choose to marry. To be very selective. I'm not judging who they are as a person, only comparing to my standards I have in a wife. You banged 4 guys at once and filmed it? more power to you, but you are not wife material for me.

Exactly. And no it’s not misogynistic. No it’s not sanctimonious. No it’s not *judgmental*

It’s having a ZFG healthy attitude with boundaries and your own standards. Women or anyone else doesn’t like it? Have a great life.

It’s weird but on this thread there seem to be some who really would like to force people (they seem to especially be women who want to force men to accept their sexual past even if those men have a different standard) to adopt different standards and different boundaries against their free will.

It almost seems like some people are really threatened by a man with a healthy sense of his own boundaries and a ZFG attitude about people who don’t respect them or try to violate them.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:02 AM, November 29th (Friday)]

Yeah, let’s be dismissive of my comment because I used “buzzwords”

No, people are dismissive of your argument because it's literally nothing but buzzwords, with an inkling of sexism thrown in for good matter. You're turning something into a gendered issue that isn't. You have the same right to exclude male partners for their past behaviour and antics, sexual or not. You, however, flip your shit if a man dares to do so.

It's like with DragnHeart, pretending this is somehow related to men seeing women as possession. When the opposite is the case and some men do not want to get into relationships with these women whatsoever because of their past.

You, however, flip your shit if a man dares to do so.

This isn’t even a little bit true. I’ve said more than once that it absolutely works both ways.

And my “buzzwords” are directed at comments that both men AND women have said in this thread. Not just men.

Shaming to me is telling everyone I know, getting on social media and announcing it, and attacking.

How is me bowing out of a relationship bc I want an SO that places the same value on sex as me "slut shaming"? I didn't want to be with someone who saw it as something to be casually had with the next penis of the hour. I wanted to be with someone who thought it should be something special, shared with someone you care about.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 11:06 AM, November 29th (Friday)]

A man who has had his junk surgically mutilated in order to look like a facsimile of a woman’s vagina is still a man. He’s just a man wearing makeup and women’s clothing, walking around with a mutilated penis that a plastic surgeon molded to look like something else.

My God....I just don’t know what to say about this level of ...I don’t know what...wow. I am out of this, there is too much negativity in the name of preference or the right to choose a partner. Which is correct. You have the right to choose but don’t think that gives you the right to make a statement like that. Trans women are women. A man who walks around in women’s clothing and makeup is usually a drag queen. And I can tell you, that population is infinitely more accepting and inclusive and empathetic than what I am seeing here. Wow

There’s a weird whiff of totalitarian thought in this thread, telling men we are slut shaming as we make free choices in a free society — or even more bizarre, the poster who seemed to insist that a man must, even against his own will, date another man who’d had his junk surgically altered to look like a pretend vagina.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:31 AM, November 29th (Friday)]

Shaming to me is telling everyone I know, getting on social media and announcing it, and attacking.

How is me bowing out of a relationship bc I want an SO that places the same value on sex as me "slut shaming"? I didn't want to be with someone who saw it as something to be casually had with the next penis of the hour. I wanted to be with someone who thought it should be something special, shared with someone you care about.

Isn't that called non-compatibility shaming?

Fascinating thread btw.

Um. If you are referring to me as “

insisting a man must, even against his own will, to date another man who’d his jump surgically altered to look like a pretend vagina

.” Where exactly did I say that? Lol

I said trans women are real women and my dear man, I would wager you would not be top on the list for a trans woman to date with the attitude I see permeating your responses. And honestly trans women look pretty much identical to other women when the clothes are off. Their surgical enhancements are picture perfect in many cases.

What I said was perhaps some empathy and inclusiveness would go a long way. How are you to know whether people posting here are part of that community and how awful to be attacked on such a personal level in a space that is supposed to be safe.

If you are going to say something perhaps you can be accurate.

Thank you.

To me, the shaming comes in when people start attacking somebody’s morals or values, saying they have none or are less than, because they chose to engage in a sexual act with one or more consenting, unattached adults while single. If all else is equal (good people, not a cheater, not kicking puppies or children, etc.), they simply have a different set of morals and values. It’s perfectly ok to not want to be with somebody who doesn’t share yours. If my husband felt that manners and politeness were unimportant, or we were drastically different on parenting, or he was prejudice, etc., it would have been a big issue/dealbreaker for me. (Turns out he still cheated, so i guess i should reconsider my dealbreakers) We ALL make that call for ourselves and there’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t make us bad people.

What’s wrong is acting holier than thou because we have a different moral base than somebody else (and please, I’m not talking about compared to unremorseful cheaters, child molesters, rapists, etc.). What’s wrong is acting like any of us are owed a sexual act just because our partner has done it in the past, which may not have been intentional but was strongly implied more than once. What’s wrong is judging others, which is NOT the same as making a decision on who we want for a partner.

(This isn’t directed at one person in particular, just the thread in general)

There’s a weird whiff of totalitarian thought in this thread, telling men were slut shaming as we make free choices in a free society — or even more bizarre, the poster who seemed to insist that a man must, even against his own will...

The rest of the quote was an offensive description of a trans woman.

I never said anyone has to date a trans person. Especially not against their will. I’m saying that many people will not date trans people due to prejudice. I hope that there will be more acceptance in the future.

[This message edited by Slowlygoingcrazy at 11:36 AM, November 29th (Friday)]