SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've decided to leave. After reading so much on NPD and my STBX got sort of a diagnosis from a therapist years ago. I made him go and she said he has strong NPD tendencies and can't be helped.

After multiple A's, False R and a new D-Day I'm done!

I actually feel asexual now and I'm hoping I won't stay this way forever. It's like ALL sex turns me off now.

Home from hospital, high as high. Went so well I was able to come home early.

There was no obvious signs of cancer, so still have the non nodule side of thyroid! Of course it will be tested, to make sure.

So triggers - while in recovery I had a clear memory of asking my nurse “what color is your hair?”

She said blonde, why?

I said “don’t like red haired nurses”

She said “why?”

“Cause a red haired nurse fucked with my husband repeatedly and after spent 7 months stalking us”

And went back to sleep.

SA said she was “off with him a bit”. Haha

I’m going back to sleep now, that’s my update while flying high! Just wanted to say thank you for all the good wishes from you all

I stay because it is much easier to manage our family if we are together than if we are apart.

It's really that simple.

If we had less kids, or DH worked full time, I would have left after DDay2.

That said, my DH has still been pretty present with our family, even during his relapse. He isn't spending the Christmas money to get high.

For the most part, we still model a fairly healthy marriage to our kids, including making sure we go out on date lunches. We also cuddle, and otherwise enjoy each other's company (watching tv, playing games, doing puzzles). At least, it's a better model than I had growing up. We don't really fight. The only time is if he does something that triggers me, or makes me question how far along he is really in his recovery. That's now down to about once every 3-4 months or so.

My husband's parents are also a major support to me. I'm not sure, at this point, what happens to that support when we divorce. It could go. I am not prepared to be completely alone at this point of my life.

I think I'm past some of the bad parts of my processing (ie, unable to get out of bed for a day). I don't mind my kids seeing me sad sometimes. Being sad is part of life, no matter what the cause is.

I do give my husband the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line a lot. He understands it's his doing, completely because of his choices.

I'm also just not ready to leave yet. I could be in the future, and DH is well aware of that.

But, now is just not the time. I generally believe that while there is not a "perfect" time for undertaking something, there is a "better" time and a "worse" time for doing something.

I make no promises for the future though. And largely, I have stopped talking about a future that involves both of us. I no longer talk about trips I want to take with DH when I am newly retired (we're 44 currently).

(((Crazyblindsided))) Same happened to me. My ex was formally diagnosed as a narcissist. He was later diagnosed as a SA by two other psychologists, one a CSAT. Then during the child custody evaluation, the evaluator informally labelled him a sociopath.

The judge wrote "moderately unstable" in the divorce decree. I sort of loved that - instead of all the labels, he just cut to the chase.

I stayed with Genius for years of his lies and cheating. I was always a step behind him. He could lie about anything. I am watching the Dirty John series on Netflix right now. A lot of the pathology is similar to my ex: serial living, multiple affairs, gaslighting, good looks and charm. When I first met my ex, I was 23. An accountant called the house repeatedly when we were engaged. He claimed Genius didn't pay him for doing his taxes. Genius gave me some crazy story about why, and how it was the accountant's fault. I indignantly picked up the phone, at 25 years old, and repeated that story to the accountant. I've thought about that a lot recently. I knew for certain the guy felt sorry for me. He listened to the crazy story I repeated to him, telling him, "my fiancee would NEVER not pay someone" and he politely wished me the best of luck. That guy knew I was already being gaslighted. I have always thought this.

Anyhow, I'm writing here as part therapy, part cautionary tale for anyone who recognizes their spouses in my stories. Not everyone here at all is dealing with a personality disordered person. But if you are, there is no cure.

Oh, and my thyroid nodules were discovered nearly 15 years ago. I still have my thyroid, and I keep pushing off the thyroidectomy. I get regular FNAs and ultrasounds to monitor everything. Now I'm seriously wondering if there is a connection between stress and thyroid disease/nodules!

lastly, for those who are thinking about leaving, it was the right decision for me. It was a no-brainer, given the dangerous things I discovered the last time. It was really hard at the time, but I have a new happy life except that I share kids with my ex. So if that's where things are headed for any of you, there CAN be love and light at the end of all of this.

ChoosingHope. I’m simply unable to tell. I don’t have any diagnosis or anything other than lies and embellishments from the beginning. He seems incapable of sharing at a deep level and basically is back on Facebook because it’s like he needs that external validation. His moods shift but heck, we are going to D, and we are in IHS. I’m moody, too. He helps with the kids and has always done actions like that so I guess I’m leaning toward no. I know he still blames me for even this last cheating so I just can’t do it.

I have three kids. It would be easier financially and logistically to stay. Still, I can’t. I won’t.

During all the years I stayed, I was doing it because I loved him, and I thought he could change. I knew a lot about his past, and I saw him as a man who had overcome a lot of adversity in his life. He is a man who can do almost anything if he puts his mind to it. But he never fully did.

Through a lot of talk with my IC, I also have figured out that I stayed because I was protecting my step daughters. I was always running interference, trying to make sure they didn't find the torn up underwear, or the dildos, or the porn, or the illicit photos on his phone.

I've learned recently through discussion with DD20 that they were finding all of those things. So all of my efforts were for naught. I like to think that they found a lot less than they would have if I weren't there, but honestly, when it comes to your own father, finding even just one of those things one time is problematic. Between the two of us, we can't even count how many different things we found over the years.

I also had the issue of knowing that if I did leave, the likelihood that I would be able to maintain contact with DDs was slim to none. As a step parent I had no legal rights. I've maintained contact with DD20, but as DD18 still lives with him, all communication has been cut off. My biggest fear, realized.

I left because I caught him in our bed with another woman, and was essentially forced out of my own home. I allowed it to happen so as not to disrupt my daughters' lives - he told me that if I came back to the house he would take them to OW's house. That was manipulative AF, obviously, and it's unlikely he would have actually done it, but at that point I was trying to keep things as normal for them as possible. And I couldn't trust him to make healthy decisions for his daughters, so I did anything I could to facilitate the best possible outcome in a really shitty situation.

For those considering leaving, I won't lie and say that it is an easy road. It is full of heartache and questioning, longing for things to be different. But living in it was far more stressful, and either way we can't change the fact that we lived through all of that. Yes, the sadness weighs heavily on my heart some days. Most days. But I felt that very often while we were still together anyway, then add to that the stress of hypervigilance, it took a major toll.

I can't say definitively that I would have ever left had he not forced it upon me. I would like to say that I would have, but I can't honestly say that I was ever in a place where I was ready to walk away. In that way, I am grateful that he did what he did, as it forced my hand, and also has led me to some very helpful (and very expensive) therapy, that I believe I should have been doing for some time.

I went back into our old thread to find the list I made a while back of all the things I don't have to do anymore now that I've left. I know there was talk of trying to save this somewhere, but we don't really have the ability to have sticky threads or anything since this is just one thread in the I Can Relate forum. I'm going to paste it below as a reminder for anyone who needs it.

*Trigger warning for those who are not in a place to read about specific behaviors, objects, etc.*

BUT imagine this life:

- coming home and NOT feeling tense about what you might find. Opening the door and KNOWING that there will be nothing except for what you left there yourself, because he is not there to leave anything

- KNOWING that if you do find something out of place, there is a perfectly logical explanation for it because you are not living with someone who is completely dysfunctional

- cleaning your house and NOT finding random paraphernalia in cupboards/under bookshelves/behind bed frames; also NOT having to listen to the absurd explanations for why those things are there

- NEVER being triggered by a certain noise going off on their phone again

- NEVER feeling like a crazy person when you just KNOW that something is off about their behavior because you've seen it hundreds of times before, because now you don't have to watch out for the behavior AT ALL

- NEVER having to wake up to phone calls and/or texts in the middle of the night

- NEVER wondering who he is texting/calling/incessantly messaging on Words with Friends (yup, my husband did that one too!)

- NEVER questioning your own sanity when you SWEAR you saw an image of a naked woman pop up on their phone, but when you go to check it it's not there anymore

- NEVER going to turn the TV on, then noticing that the volume is down to zero, which can only mean one thing, he didn't "fall asleep" on the couch watching a movie, he was out in the living room to stay up all night watching porn while you and your daughters slept, and lo and behold, there is the same DVD in the player again

I'm going to add a few to the list

- NEVER waking up in the middle of the night to find him not in your bed, and either

- checking the other rooms of your house to see if/where he is masturbating

- OR if he's not in the house, worrying where he has gone out to and staying up until he gets home because he could literally be anywhere and you can't fall back asleep until he's back

- NEVER waking up in the middle of the night to being groped

- NEVER having to have another conversation about why being groped does not make you feel loved, it makes you feel used

- NEVER feeling like you might as well be a sex doll or any other woman

- NEVER having to hear a story about why they need money, and having to analyze whether or not you should give it to them because no matter how plausible the story might be, you're always worried they're going to spend it on something else

- NEVER worrying if your kids are going to find anything inappropriate just by simply living and playing in their own home (this will unfortunately still potentially occur if split time happens after a D. However you can at least control your own environment to ensure they don't find these things with you)

- NEVER feeling the need to install a camera in your bedroom to find out who has been stealing from you

- NEVER wondering if an item of women's clothing or jewelry is yours, your daughters' or someone else's

*End trigger warning*

Feel free to add to this. I'm sure I will think of even more. If there are others still interested in it, I will try contacting a mod to see what we can do about preserving this for easier access. For now maybe I will just add it to my profile bio, and direct people there if they want to see it.

I'm wishing all of you well during the holiday season! For those of you on the healing path, I am so happy for you that your husbands are getting it and progressing in their own healing! For those whose husbands are still acting out, or who are still in limbo, I'm hoping that you figure out what you need for yourself, no matter which direction that takes you. I'm wishing healing for all of us, in whatever form that takes!

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 2:54 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

Honestly, your "Nevers" are why I don't even miss my XWH. I am thoroughly enjoying the never agains.

You don't even realize how much stress those things put on you until you no longer have them in your life. I don't even have the words to express what a weight left me when I walked out.

I came back here because I was dealing with a crisis: my ex stalked by significant other's ex-wife and is now dating her. I'm stunned, terrified, mortified, ashamed - after nearly eight years from the last D-Day.

But I'm so amazed by what I'm reading here.

(((DemolishedInside)) I'm not a mental health professional, but it doesn't seem from your description that your husband has a personality disorder that I can recognize. I *think* that this is good news. But again, I'm not an expert.

(((HeHadADoubleLIfe)) Oh boy. Your triggers. I stayed for a long time too, for even less noble reasons. I thought I loved my ex, but really I was an Irish-Catholic girl who couldn't fathom divorce. it was the ultimate failure in life, for myself and for my kids. Ugh. Now I can't imagine how I ever believed that. I wanted to protect my kids too. But when I opened 2000 pages of text revealing a dangerous double life, I couldnt ignore it anymore. I want to tell you that I thought I would die after kicking him out of our home. But the next morning, I woke up after drinking an entire bottle of wine, and all I could feel was incredible relief that this dangerous "presence" was no longer in my bed. I struggled for three year during the divorce, and then I started to heal. Today I am happier than I've ever been in my entire life. Good for you! You are very brave.

I have some additions:

Never leaving for work and worrying all day that your "consultant" husband might be spending the day cheating on you.

Never again trying to look at his phone and wondering if I can catch him.

Never again being scared to pick up the phone or open my front door because some other woman will be calling or ringing the doorbell to confront him or me.

Never again reading the most grotesque and violent and dangerous details of anonymous deviant sex.

Never again seeing pictures of the above.

Never again calling a hotel to have the operator tell me that there is no one there by his name.

Never again sleeping next to someone who repulses me and scares me.

I could go on and on.

(((Devastated))) My weight is lifted too. Wow. How did I walk around with it in the first place? So sad.

I'm posting the traits of sociopaths here. I hope that's okay. And then I'll take a step back. I know that not everyone here is dealing with personality disorders and sociopathy. But i wish I knew all of this several years ago. I hope it will help someone. This was my life.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

I posted a few weeks ago wondering if my WH was a SA. His therapist he was seeing, said he wasn’t because he didn’t masturbate at work.

I was reading in here and was triggered by the being groped at night.

I have been groped by WH, awakening me from sleep. He would deny it, vehemently. One night he awoke mid grope.

It actually happened last night. I stopped him. So, to compensate me for it, he was crabby before leaving for work.

Like his groping is MY fault?

I don’t think it has a thing to do with work. Did you look at the resources at the top of this thread? They might help. At one point, I had a gut feeling and did some research. It’s how I knew.

I’m so sorry he did that to you without permission. Are you going to IC?

One night he awoke mid grope.

20yrsagoBS, are you saying he is groping you while both of you are asleep? Or are you asleep, and he is awake?

I've experienced his sleep groping a couple of times. I personally wrote this off though, because it felt like he was having a sex dream and then acting it out. I felt bad for policing his dreams, as we really can't control that. I'm sure I should have seen this as indicative of a larger issue, though. The groping I mention in my list is that my XH would be fully awake and while I was sleeping he would grope me and try to have sex with me. No matter that I was in a dead sleep. He would also grope me during the day too, but the sleeping part was more bothersome to me. It felt more predatory.

Whether he was asleep or not, waking up to being groped has to be very jarring for you. I'm sorry that you had to wake up to that.

The hard part about this is, no one behavior can make or break a sex addict. IMHO, your therapist is misinformed. Saying that he can't be a sex addict because he doesn't masturbate at work is too definitive.

For the longest time, my XH's biggest issue was compulsive masturbation. Some might say that this wasn't a sex addiction, because he wasn't actually having sex. I knew in my heart of hearts though, that it was just as dangerous of an addiction as any other.

While there are many disturbing similarities, I think if all of us here in this thread revealed our full stories there would be striking differences, because people are all so different. My XH tore/knotted up my underwear to masturbate with. While I'm sure I'm not the ONLY person to have ever experienced that, I'm pretty sure it's an outlier. I would never claim that another woman's husband is not a sex addict because they don't engage in that same behavior. And my husband's engaging in that behavior doesn't make their SA's behavior any less hurtful to them.

Many women's SAH's end up going to massage parlors. To my knowledge, even after all my digging, XH never did that. And I'm pretty sure nobody here would tell me that because he didn't go to a massage parlor, he isn't an SA. And his not going to a massage parlor, doesn't make any of his SA behavior any less hurtful to me.

I have reason to believe that my SAXH was (and probably still is) masturbating at work, or at least in his car in the parking garage and to/from work. However he is a high anxiety individual who uses masturbation as a self soothing mechanism when he is stressed. So it is not surprising to me that he would masturbate at work considering he has a high stress job.

It also wouldn't be surprising to me to find out that others might avoid that at all costs, for many reasons: the consequences of being caught were too great, there simply wasn't a place to do so, they were really focused at their job and didn't have the time, they are more stressed at home, and therefore more likely to engage in self soothing behaviors there, etc. There are any number of reasons why an SA might not masturbate at work. Doesn't mean he's not an SA. It is true that often as the addiction escalates, riskiness of location also escalates. We see it with those who choose to engage in anonymous sex in public locations, or even those who have a penchant for voyeurism, or those who might masturbate in a public place etc. But the fact of the matter remains that while the location can be an aggravating factor, the behavior itself is the problem. Their sexual behavior has become unmanageable. Period.

If you do a search of Sex Addict test, you can click around and find some links. The one I used was Recovery Zone. My XH would not take the test. I took it, and to the best of my ability answered as he would. The questions are pretty loaded, and you can pretty clearly see what is the "good" non SA answer, and what is supposed to be the "bad" SA answer. If an SA were taking the test, I could see how it would be tempting to give the "right" answers in order to say, "See, I'm not an SA!" As the spouse, I can see how it might feel good to you to give the "bad" answers, so you have some evidence to show to prove your point and say, "See, I told you you have a problem!"

If you really take the time to answer each question honestly, you can try to avoid such confirmation bias. This required me to really get into my husband's mind set, and to be empathetic towards him, so I could do my best to answer how he would if he were being truly honest and authentic. I also admitted to myself when there were items I truly could not answer, such as his mental state after sex, whether or not he had ever been sexually abused as a child, or whether or not he had used escorts, because while I strongly suspected all of those things, I couldn't prove them, and he vehemently denied them. The test will not allow you to progress without answering all of those questions, so in those instances, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and answer in the way that I believed to be the "good" non SA answer.

It is not a long test, but if your partner will not take it, you need to be willing to really sit and attempt to get inside their head. Not from a place of trying to blame or shame them either. When we let our anger take over, because we are fearful and hurting, we can often try to find a label for the person who betrayed us and throw that label in their face, because we want to make them feel the hurt that they can't seem to feel. If you do decide to take the assessment, it has to come from a place of truly trying to understand, and to get answers for yourself. Not from a place of anger.

I have taken the test several times in this way. The "score" is on a 1-20 scale, the higher you go, the more likely you are a sex addict, with most sex addicts scoring above a 6. I (as him) have always scored somewhere between an 11-14 - I'm assuming that based on my mood at any given time while taking it, I don't always give the exact same answers. This is when I give my "benefit of the doubt" answers. When I take it and give the answers that I believe in my heart to be true (depression after sex, sexual assault/molestation as a child, use of escorts) I (he) score at 19.

As demolished said, at a certain point, you'll just know. IME, if you continue to be drawn to the SA literature, something about it is speaking to you. Here are some of the criteria that helped hammer the point home for me:

Preoccupation: obsessive thinking about sexual behavior, opportunities, and fantasies

Loss of control: inability to stop behavior despite commitments to self and others and despite problems caused by behavior

Relationship disturbance: sexual behavior has created significant relationship problems

Affect disturbance: significant depression, despair, or anxiety over sexual behavior

I'm paraphrasing, but one of the questions on the test that seemed so glaringly obvious once I saw it in black and white was:

Have you tried to stop some of your sexual behaviors, even made promises to loved ones that you would, but can't?

The other was:

Do you regularly engage in use of pornography/masturbation when in a situation where you could easily be caught by someone who would be hurt by this behavior?

As demolished mentioned, please check out Page 1 of this thread. The 4th post down by Lionne lists a ton of great resources, and also just gives some good advice.

Specifically this:

Many people will tell you that there is no such thing as sex addiction. They cite the omission of SA in the DSM-4. This is the same publication that claimed autism was caused by the mother being unable to bond with their child. The label serves to direct the TREATMENT, and whether this is a “disease” or compulsivity. If the label enables the extinction of the behavior, go for it. Just don't allow yourself to make excuses for a spouse who is “sick.” No truly recovered addict will ever tell you they don't own the behavior. There is “hope and freedom” from SA. Whether you stay in the relationship or not.

These recommendations lean heavily toward 12 step work because it’s been seen to work. Other paths may have equal success. But 12 steps have the benefit of being free and widely available, if only online or by phone.

ETA: This should go without saying, but it can be validating to hear it: NO. HIS GROPING WAS IN NO WAY YOUR FAULT!

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 12:33 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

Hi everyone,

I've been on SI for a while (going on 2 years), but have never posted in this area before.

HHADL suggested I do so a while back, and was very helpful to me. For a while I didn't think I would need to, but I guess I do.

WH was a serial cheater, almost exclusively sexting. He is 2+ years out from his last A. Since his last A, his porn use has been a problem in the M. I first asked him to stop 2 years ago, and at first it was just livecams I asked him to give up, but he repeatedly couldn't. SO ultimately I asked him to give it up entirely, because I felt it was out of control and it scared and triggered me that it would feed the same demons that led to the A's, and since then he has promised to stop and relapsed repeatedly.

Every time I would find a way to check up on him, he would find a way around it. He was always really sorry, but also really resistant to the possibility of SA because, ya know, porn use is super "normal" for guys, and he wasn't doing anything weird or extreme.

Most recently, having made it virtually impossible for him to use porn at home without me knowing (I can monitor the home router and data usage), I still had alarms going off and confronted him that I knew he was concealing something. He admitted, miserably, that he had bought a device that he was keeping at work and was using it in the BR when everyone else left the office.

He had been coming home later than usual. Because work, he said at the time.

I told him I'm done with this. That he can't keep fucking around because it's killing me, and the M. He said he hasn't ever really "wanted to stop wanting it." That he kept thinking I'd "come around" and change my mind. But now he understands I'm not going to change my mind, and he's going to get serious. He says he'll "try to find" a certified SA therapist to help him. I gave it all to him, but made it clear I'm at my limit, and need to see actions, not words. I can't keep doing this.

Anyway, I don't know what I'm looking for. Another human somewhere that maybe knows what this is like? I feel completely shut down. I've been living with this feeling of not being enough, not being anyone's "all I need" for so, so, so long that it doesn't even feel possible any more. Like I shouldn't bother to hope for it.

And now my M feels like it's in limbo all over again, and my trust is shattered, and I can't even feel hurt or angry about it. It just feels...inevitable.

He's done great in other areas, and obviously he loves me. He just also loves porn. And sex. He literally brought up the possibility of sex last night, an hour after telling me he'd been lying to me, sneaking around, and breaking his promises for over a month. I tried to say something in response, but it literally turned into gibberish in my mouth. The whole situation felt so patently ridiculous. And also very familiar. Along with that guilty/anxious feeling of depriving him of something Important that he Needs or Else.

I don't even know what to say to him now. He is off at sports practice with DD. He will come back and we will...? Act fine? Have a Big Pointless Talk? What am I supposed to do??

Sorry for the ramble. Thanks to anyone who's listening. This is very lonely.

I'm so sorry you are here, worst.

My suggestion-focus on you. Take care of yourself...try to eat/drink, sleep, move around. If you are serious about leaving your husband, start talking to lawyers.

I guess I wouldn't bother focusing on your husband. Even if he finds a therapist or goes to 12 step meetings, that doesn't mean he accepts he's an addict in his heart. After DDay1, my husband saw a CSAT for 3 years. "Did the work" except, he didn't accept he's an addict. Lied to himself about that.

Which is how we arrived at DDay2.

I also have learned behaviors are no longer a good indicator of sobriety. Un-prompted emotional intimacy, now, is my barometer for where my husband might be in his recovery.

I don't know that I'd make assumptions. My husband doesn't love porn, even though he made it the most important thing in his life.

You also know your husband does not need it or else.

Focus on you. That's your job right now.

Well shit, WCE. I'm so, so sorry to hear this. I remember our exchanges a while back, and think about them often. It sucks that your WH never really turned over a new leaf like we thought he was starting to.

I saw this when you first posted, and to be honest, I've been sitting here mulling over what to say. I deeply wish there was something I could write that would make you feel better, some sort of magic fix. But unfortunately, having been where you are, I know there really isn't anything that will do that.

I do know that coming here and finding a community of people who are all going through the same thing has been one of the positive parts of all of this.

I just want to emphasize this:

Along with that guilty/anxious feeling of depriving him of something Important that he Needs or Else.

I know this feeling well. I think we all do. But you are NOT required to give up your body as a sacrifice to regulate his emotions. That is a HIM problem, not a YOU problem.

I have so many other things I want to say to you, but have to run out for work today. I will work on a more thorough post with some action items for you that I think might help you detach and feel a little bit better.

I know sometimes we don't all come back to this thread specifically. It seems to go through periods of dying down for a while, then becoming more active, then dying down again. Don't let that turn you off from posting though!

And just an FYI, I get text notifications any time I get a private message, so if you are desperate and just need someone to talk to in real time (we've all been there, trust me) feel free to PM me and I will respond! I am guilty of procrastinating on responding when my little perfectionist self can't find hours to sit down and create a thoughtful response, but if you're reaching out I will assume you are in crisis mode and will respond! I know my SAnon meeting has a call list for just such an event, but if you haven't been to one and don't have that support system, please use whatever you have access to.

Lastly, did you get any sleep last night? I hope that the evening didn't devolve into a long roundabout talk that gets you nowhere. I hope you were able to get some rest.

And everything secondtime said!

((((WorstClubEver))))

I found a lump, and it's not in my breast ...no it's worse because it's in my lady parts

So while I am waiting for my appointment with a new gyno

( I have used my primary for this for some time )

I am of course googling all of my symptoms and have myself convinced it's cancer

Confession here, and please don't judge

I have not , two years past Dday , had any tests for STDs...mostly out of shame since our practitioners are also patrons of our business and I just couldn't bring myself to deal with that part of the infidelity

Of course I am worried and assuming the worst and also, if it * is * cancer. some of the risk factors would be exposure to HPV or also previous forms of skin cancer , which I have had ( the cancer )

This is just a shitty holiday season , but then they have all been for the past 3...on top of it all, our daughter is going through a really bad time emotionally and I am very worried about her mental health.

So , just a rant and vent because it isn't something to talk about with anyone really...can't imagine what I will say to people if my fears are realized

When will I ever get a fucking break ???????

[This message edited by whoami62 at 6:26 PM, December 13th (Friday)]

Whoami

No! I’m so sorry! Slow down on the cancer worry though, focus on calming down. Breath.

If it is bad- you don’t have to explain to anyone. So don’t worry about that yet. You tell people what you want to.

When are you able to see your new GYN? Don’t be embarrassed, I have had to discuss all this with several medical dr’s and they’ve surprisingly been not only helpful but able to make me feel less messed up. One it turned out (she only told me this recently) her father was an SA. She’s tiny and I’m tall and when I see her I feel such comfort.

Choosinghope -

I know several SA BWs with thyroid issues. I know one whose just stopped working and was causing her heart to have distress, they removed her entire thyroid.

And honestly most of the SA BWs I know have medical issues - that’s the book right “the body keeps score” ?

I’m laying here wide awake because after surgery I slept well. For days at a time I slept 8 plus hours a day. So my body does not know what to do with that!

Sleep is such an issue since DD. Well, it’s always been, since I have memories, but over the years it was manageable, but since DD it’s much worse.

I’ve tried drugs, melatonin, Calm, heavy blankets, multiple EMDR sessions, etc.

and the weirdest is when I visit my DD in another state, you’d think I’d be thinking what’s he doing?” But after year one, I sleep there as soon as I get there. Last time I got off the plane, we had dinner and visited, I said “I’m going to shower, be right back”. And in my robe slept for 14 hours. Woke up, did the stuff I needed to and as soon as we were home went up to bed at 6:30 and slept till 9:30 am. My DD even told me later I’d come downstairs and asked her what time it was, and went back up to bed.

So I’m laying here with an ice pack on my neck and thinking about all of us and how hard it.

SA and I talked a bit this evening, I asked him “if you today asked at your group “ how many of you feel you are in a successful recovery - marriage wise” how many would feel positive? He sat for a bit, thinking, and he said about 80 percent.

I go to group with some wives of his SA group, some not, and I said to him, “I don’t know a single spouse that feels they are recovering successfully in their marriage”

He was shocked.

I was with him once, one of the guys from his group was talking about vow renewal, how happy he was. I’d had lunch with his wife that day, she told me “I don’t know how much more I can take, I think I need to leave”.

I don’t know why I bring this up- I’m on pain meds and can’t sleep.

This whole SA thing - it’s just so awful

Hey, I have taken a wee break from this thread as it’s just so painful. It sucks what we are all going through. I was debating whether I am re-traumatizing myself or helping myself heal being on here. I don’t really know...but here I am checking in. I think of you all often.

He literally brought up the possibility of sex last night, an hour after telling me he'd been lying to me, sneaking around, and breaking his promises for over a month

So mind blowing that he can expect you to pleasure him after your confrontation. You are not alone in this! My husband has also done this many many times over our marriage. He has even requested I just stand there so he can touch my ass while he pleases himself saying I don’t even need to look at him because he knows I hate him. It’s ridiculous and crazy making! It’s objectifying and degrading. And it is very very sad that they can be so driven by addiction that they become incapable of respect and empathy for our feelings.

So sorry anyone one of us are on here and struggling. I can’t take anymore pain, I am certain of that! I feel so alone, discarded, forgotten, uncared for and unloved.

Somber, I completely relate. I have to stop coming to the boards completely (weeks at a time) because I get caught up in it.

I found the Wayward boards helpful...BUT is it me, or there more SA jerks coming through?!... I have a real hard time reading through them, but I think it helped me in seeing them for what they are...its text book...word for word.

They havent any sense of self and they want tips to "win her back" and speak of their wives like property ..its so blatantly obvious there is a huge level of abuse going on there. Most arent familiar with these freaks, so they are manipulated into sympathizing, while providing them with more knowledge to manipulate their victims...its like they read through carefully orchestrated que cards.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 12:04 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

Whoami62,

Dont worry, it's probably nothing. I have endometriosis and I get chocolate cysts all the time. It's most likely a fibroid or endometrial....I had endo grow through my c-section scar (abdominal wall)... I had a cyst on my ovary...good times.

I dont know your details, but it could even be a sebaceous cyst.