SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ashes-

I can relate...the MCs we had made things so much worse. One of them knew he was lying, but didnt outwardly say so. MCs play mediator, so they wont take a side...as they shouldnt if there wasnt a betrayal. I felt like money trumpeted moral codes a d ethics, in terms of my MC experiences.

I have come across so many betrayed that have claimed the MC landed them in divorce... I believe it.

In terms of counceling, I had an amazing one...she was literally just getting her licensing, so she set me up with another councelor, that I just dont feel the connection to.

I think what it was with the first one, was an empathetic ear, when I have never experienced that from anyone. She seemed to truly care and very honest with me. Even though she was new to the game, she had the compassion that a lot of councelors seem to lack. She was around 50 and did everything backward like I did. (had a child young etc.)....I felt like she truly understood where I came from and validated my feelings...so bummed that shes gone.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 12:59 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

a lot of these SA "men" have spent a lifetime compartmentalizing, minimizing, gaslighting and manipulating...very cool, calm and collected in terms of emotions (no empathy)...to the point of being psychopathic in nature.

Interesting, and I could absolutely see this being an issue. For now, he is agreeing, so I'm keeping it as a plan, but for me the first step is finding the right supports for myself and getting through disclosure since WS is open to it.

Interesting thing about my WS, he is not cool, calm and collected. He is a mess of anxiety.. and as this stuff was escalating it was noticeably worse. He blamed things on work or just unknown anxiety and would avoid talking about getting help. Since my discovery of his behaviors, he is starting to connect that a lot of his other issues (headaches, muscle soreness, lack of appetite, anxiety, etc.) may all actually be connected with the behaviors...

I don't know, we are so early in all this, it's just speculation. WS has reached out to SCAT yesterday and is working to get an appointment. He is attending two meetings and is looking for others. He's mostly worried about how much time away from home the groups will take.

We are talking, he is answering questions.. the only thing I worry is if he still not being fully honest. There have been a couple of things that have given me flags. To my knowledge there are no FOO issues, the guy comes from what seems to be a pretty nice life.

I appreciate the info on MC and I have worries about that as well. I know how hard it is to find people that are a good fit. For now WS and I both agree that it's way to early to think about MC.

I know I need to focus on myself and my own healing. But it is so frustrating to see my WS be reluctant and slow at every step of his own therapeutic process. Reluctant to see a CSAT, reluctant to go to a SLAA meeting, reluctant to read the book his therapist recommended, reluctant to start journaling, there's this defensiveness of "well I'm not as bad as those guys, all this therapy is overkill." He got us into this mess!

Rather than get frustrated over your SO's defensiveness, really, just use it as a data point.

One month out from DDay, your SO is taking and thinking like an addict, even if he's sober.

That's good information on where he is or isn't in his recovery.

Note, and move on.

Just keep observing. And noting. After you do you, you should be able to figure out where your SO is really recovering.

[This message edited by secondtime at 5:38 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

Just keep observing. And noting. After you do you, you should be able to figure out where your SO is in really recovering

Good suggestion. I've been tracking a little, on things that don't line up or make sense... I feel like this will maybe help give some clarity one day for my own decisions.

Thanks!

Olwen I don't agree with the we are co-addicts with our addict spouses. Look up the trauma model for sex addict partners. I can't remember the names of the counselors but yea it definitely makes a lot of sense. I'm a victim of my SAWS. I didn't make him make his choices. I didn't know him when his addiction started. Hell daily sex wasn't even enough to keep him from straying and less frequency was just more justification for him to look else where despite that I was sleep deprived for over 2 years with our child who didn't sleep through the night consistently until he was over 2.5 years old. I pleaded with him I don't know how many times to get help as I knew something wasn't right as he perused Craigslist personals and I found out about back page viewing as well which was 90% sex work posting.

We are likely all victims of our spouses on this thread. Sorry the co-dependent model for us clearly strikes a nerve with me.

NoMoreRugSweepin I totally agree with you. When I first read about the co-addict model, I was appalled. I am the child of an alcoholic and no one would say that to a partner for other addictive behaviors.

I actually have done some reading on the Trauma model, which does fit a lot better. WS is doing the 12 steps meetings and such right now, but so far I have refused to even look at the partner meetings because I don't think I can deal with the co-addict approach (I'm assuming it's there).

It's made me so angry. He did this. His choices did this. Now he has all this help available to him and I have practically nothing! He gets to be excited that he has a path to have a better life and I feel like I am just left to deal on my own. On top of that, I am so sensitive to him being anywhere on his own, him going to meetings and therapy even sets me off... like did he go to therapy?? I don't know. I can only trust.. which obviously is not something I have a lot of right now.

I'm doing a consult today with a life coach that is certified in Partner Trauma Model for SA (sorry, that might not be the exact name). Fingers crossed that she is helpful. I have IC tomorrow, but she is almost certainly not experienced in this area. I haven't seen her since I learned of the SA, so I'm going once more in case there is hope there. Other than that.. I have here and that's it. Everything else is just me. I have no friends and family where i live.

Nomore-

I'm with you on the trauma thing.

I've seen co-dependent....my mother is one...I am not in denial when I say I am nothing like her. I also dont think labels are helpful, unless you're uncovering your own abuser. The word "abuse" isnt enough in Google search... even Sex Addict isnt enough because the info is being banked on by these "pros"... "abuse cycle" and "narcisstic cycle" are good ones, when uncovering these fools...pretty eye-opening.

I think the councelor, I was passed over to, is siding on the old co-dependent model. I will always say that some read about monsters from books, while we sleep next to them. Unless they are highly empathic or lived through it, they will never understand. A lot of councelors have never been in a long marriage, only to find out they wer ed cheated on... They havent the capacity to understand what a person goes through on the most basic level.

Olwen-

Your husband sounds like my husband...the thing with my husband is that he knows how to disaccosiate and completely shut down, as a means to control the situation... SAs compartmentalize to cope (amongst many other things)...they can become detached from their emotions and why they escalate their behavior, as they become desensitized to outward stimuli...porn becomes prostitutes etc....They self medicate with anything and everything. Mine went out and got himself a DUI, upon my discovering more whores. They are terrified of intimacy to the point of resentment and that feeds the sick cycle.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 3:10 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

DashboardMadonna: It's scary how someone can be that way. WS definitely shuts down, compartmentalizes and disassociates. I have never seen another form of self medicating (he doesn't drink, smoke, do drugs, gamble) But that said, who knows.. maybe he does and I just haven't caught it yet. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

I can't believe yours got a DUI.. I hope you left him there to sort it out. I couldn't imagine how I would feel if that happened.. I would hope Rage, but I bet for me it would be Numbness.

they can become detached from their emotions and why they escalate their behavior, as they become desensitized to outward stimuli...porn becomes prostitutes etc....They self medicate with anything and everything.

Wow it's amazing how similar they are. I remember my STBX from day 1 used porn but I just thought "that's what guys do." Nope mine took it to a whole new level. He kept ramping up the fetish porn and then would expect me to perform like the porn. No way! It did get to a point where he was looking at escorts and most likely sleeping with them. Last D-Day was with a webcam girl.

Olwen-

When I met my husband (at 16) he had experiment with speed. His mother was a druggy... I dont doubt he was dabbling in it, to keep up his stamina...he was out all the time, while I was in bed with suicidal depression. He literally believes hes a rockstar....concerts, trying to dress like them....you name it.

Oh my God, the amount of hatred and rage was so out of context of my character. I went from the deer watching from the woods (I watch peoples actions because I trust no one) to a deer that had been backed into a corner. The year (edit- year and a half) following DD was the absolute worst. My friend took me to see some spiritual healers (her family member and a family friend) and one told me things no one else knew, followed by this healing ritual. I didnt think anymore about it, until a few months went by and one day I noticed the anger was gone. I felt more sadness, but I am familiar with that. I now have indifference with my STBX...I do think that is the emotional place a person needs to be, in order have clarity and detach from these characters. These people fuck with your head, with their games and how they suck you back in.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 1:17 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

Crazy-

I knew he was watching porn...I caught it few times over the years...it was devastating then too...as he had no interest in me....I believe hes been fucking around on my for at least 15 years... he "admits" to three...naaa

Last night I was doing the "pain shopping" and googled one his "handles" hes used online, over the years....wouldn't you know it, it connected to a swinger site, but it his connection had been defunct... meaning he probably had an account there....I almost find that more scary then prostitutes...I could be wrong, but I dont see swingers consistantly using condoms....especially if your part of an orgy sandwich.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 1:02 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

DashboardMadonna: I'm glad you were able to get there and detach from him. You think of all the years of that kind of abuse, it takes a long time to unravel it all.

(Edit: posted the below question in general as well)

I have a question for you all - This morning I found out that WS reactivated (or just started using again) one of his MANY yahoo emails. While he was in the shower, I was peeking at notifications on his phone and saw one from Yahoo. He previously didn't have this app on his phone. I went and had a look and it seems that he changed the password two days ago and it using it for an SA group..

So I am a bit divided... I feel triggered by any kind of behavior like this. Changing passwords and using accounts that are not his main one. At the same time, his main account has his name in it and I can understand why he might want to use a separate one for SAA 12 step or whatever. But he didn't talk to me about it and he now has an account that I don't have the password for.

Should I confront? I think I should. Should I see this as crossing a line? And if I confront, should I allow the account? I'm thinking that I want him to keep the password open for me and he can trust that I won't go and open emails from it.. I don't know. I am so conflicted on this.

[This message edited by Olwen1 at 8:06 AM, January 16th, 2020 (Thursday)]

Olwen: I think it's completely valid for you to be triggered and worried by his behavior. I also understand why he'd want to have an anonymous handle to use with an SA support group.

If I were in your shoes, I'd let my WS know that I know about the Yahoo account. I'd explain that my initial gut reaction was to be worried and scared, especially since he didn't come to me and let me know he was going to reactivate the account. I think it's fair for him to have the email account if he's using it to access SA support, but it's equally fair for you to have the password. At this point, your WS hasn't built up anywhere near enough trust for him to keep an account private, no matter what he uses it for.

If he balks at the idea of giving you access, or seems annoyed that you checked the account in the first place, I'd be worried.

Don't be surprised if you find such relief not dealing with all that drama that you start to wake up happy. I know what you mean with doing everything yourself, but I would rather do things alone than be in a toxic marriage ever again.

Oh, absolutely. I commented to my therapist just yesterday that it’s amazing how much better I feel physically (personally, my mental health REALLY impacts me physically) and haven’t had to take any sick days from work in a long time! Which is extra good, considering it’s a new job haha. Before, the stress was taking such a toll on my body. I was in a constant state of high alert and anxiety ... could hardly eat ... It’s like night and day. I can’t lie, I’m super lonely now, but I definitely wouldn’t trade the two.

Thewalrus: 100% agree. Thank you for reminding me I'm not crazy here. WS emailed because he seemed I was upset today, so he already kind of knows ( he even said, did this have to do with the Yahoo account?). So I'm confronting tonight. But since we recently fought/discussed this trigger... I just don't know what to do. I can't let it go. I don't think I'm ready to walk away from this alone. I guess it will depend on what he says and does next.

Dogsnbooks: read back on your last post. Glad you are feeling better. Stress does horrible things. I hope things keep getting better for you. Sounds like you definitely deserve peace and happiness in the future. Stay strong.

Olwen when you set expectations and they don't follow through on them you absolutely have every right to confront. Those small things are how trust gets rebuilt. By ignoring expectations it shows he is very much so still in selfish addict mode and not ready to do the work. Its just for show now.

Hello folks.

Full disclosure: my WH is 'borderline' SA, so I hope that doesn't exclude me from this thread. His scores stem from a lifelong history of being in infidelity-related relationships (whether he's the WH/WSO, the AP, or the BSO), a VERY long EA/PA since we've been M (25 yrs), and two other instances of acting out in our relationship (ONS with prostitute, and another 'make out' session with a 2nd AP after he'd "had an epiphany" and decided to stop having sex with AP#1). The only other relationship he's had that lasted more than a year or so was fraught with him cheating on his BSO (basically he cheated the entire relationship). I'm the only woman he's ever lived with or married. Basically, fidelity is not in his repertoire or moral compass.

I believe he uses porn a LOT more than he's fessing up to. At the time of dday I did discover an email acknowledging his signing up for some hotsex website (which he dened doing and says he doesn't recall signing up for anything like that - yet they had his email with a username that I could see him picking). There were other EAs during the M (before I knew EA was even a thing). And my gut continues to scream that he has not been completely honest about the extent of his sexually acting out since we met (either he's too ashamed to admit or feels they would bring instant D, so he's just chosen to bury/avoid it with me and all his IC/MC).

We just hit the 2yr dday antiversary mark this week. He just had his 2nd appt with a CSAT. I've been seeing a CSAT every 2 weeks on my own for several months, as well as weekly appts with a 2nd IC with solid trauma expertise, but nothing infidelity related. I basically get educated from my CSAT (who has a harsh demeanor such that I don't feel comfortable getting TOO vulnerable with her personality type), and then take that knowledge to my trauma IC who is the bomb when it comes to compassion and understanding AND being blunt with me. I am very grateful that I have insurance.

I'd urged WH to learn about SA and CSATs for about a year now, and he steadfastly refused until this past November when we were working out how to end our "trial" separation (lots of practical moving parts - he's back in the house, but nothing WRT our status of being in limbo has changed). I am still holding a ton of resentment about this, and pretty much all things related to his inaction post dday. I continue to heal and am seriously looking at buying my own small home as a 1st step toward increasing my independence.

So - that's the history/status part.

WH's CSAT recommended a workbook by Carol Juergensen Sheets, called Help Her Heal. I've looked through some of it and it's written in a very simplistic style (which may be a good thing) and has several exercises/worksheets (which look promising in that they look to nudge the WS to think of stuff on their own rather than simply following the 'instructions' and 'checking the boxes' that we all know they are very well at lying to themselves about).

I'm wondering if any of you have any experience with this? Anyone find it helpful?

Hi all.

Olwen asked about boundaries and consequences - a while back someone here gave me a very detailed account of their boundaries and consequences, I’m sorry I cannot remember who ...

So for my life — I was visiting family and found out my SAWH did not have consistent accountability for a m9nth, what made this hurt so much is that he has a daily check in - suggested by his IC - it’s supposed to be a time he lets me know if he has been lying or having issues with recovery, where he is at in recovery, etc.

He never admits any problems in his check in, it’s always sunshine and roses, so of course, he never told me.

I would also ask occasionally because I felt like I wasn’t seeing accountability happening - he’d say, oh we just talked, etc.

So I just listened to his excuses, interrupted and said, “I’m not coming home”

Just not. He moved my plane ticket a week forward. I said, no, I’m not coming home.

I’m not sure if this is the end. It’s so stupid that this one little thing could be. I haven’t asked about my car, etc. but I need to. I’m afraid it will push him over board.

I am waiting to hear from my IC, we are going to do a phone session. I sent her a list of what I want to talk about.

I’m staying in my daughters guest room, it’s all her left over furniture and such. I think it’s telling that yesterday I stayed home and rearranged the entire room so that it’s more user friendly. I’m also looking into getting a part time job. All this is not what I want, I want him to be open with me and for us to work this out together.

He won’t though

My sawh and three oldest sons are on their annual hunting trip with two of my uncles. They stay overnight in the hunting cabin and then my oldest son shoots a deer. So I wake up early this morning to pee and I check my phone. That notification that sawh had messages on fb messenger was there again so I logged in. The short of it is that he friended a TON of random women on fb and messaged quite a few of them. One of which was a girl I went to High School with. Sawh knows her too. She got divorced about a year ago and he was asking her about that. Then, he gave her his work number and said she could message him on that. Ya'll, I dont even have his work number. I had to use spy dialer to make sure he didn't have a burner I didnt know about. It is his work phone for sure. He had short conversations with other women as well. He even friended a few of my friends and one of my high school teachers. He opened a convo with the teacher and "waved" at her. I dont think he realizes who it is because her profile pic is of her young adult children (2 girls, one boy).

I know his work is sending him to the nearest city for a week long training for work soon. I dont know when exactly. He said he thought maybe in the summer but who knows. Its about an hour away. He could drive back and forth but he has the option to stay in a hotel so that's what he will be doing. It doesnt take a genius to figure out why does it?

Anyway. I guess this is it. Stick a fork in me, I am done. I can't divorce him though. I'm only making about $1000 a month with my business right now. Our monthly bills not counting food, gas etc are $2200. My plan is to pretend that I didn't see a thing and act like everything is normal to hopefully buy some time.

The punch line is when he was talking to my old classmate, she even commented about how hard the divorce has been on the kids. Hello you dummy. You have kids too. Divorce will be hard on them but you know. Getting your rocks off is more important.