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I'm gonna post this on both of your threads. It occurs to me that, given the close relationships, it's quite possible they are now working together to synch their stories so their timelines will match and they can continue to lie to each of you. Specifically, they will try to minimize the scope and extent of the A. You should (a) be sure they aren't going on a deleting spree, deleting emails, message threads, and texts, and (b) start using various recovery software ASAP to get this info and start building a timeline. Also, start remembering when their joint "workouts" went from 1.5 hours to 2 hours, then to 3 hours, etc.

She's gone to see the attorney...

Sounds like you’ve disrupted her plans, but not blown them up. She thinks she is still in control. For sure, she is making business decisions here. Putting herself absolutely first.

Keep doing what you are doing, Bahama. Taking control.

You’re getting a lot of advice here, a lot of it critical, but take a minute to take a breath. Put everything in perspective. This is an awful thing to have happened to you, but it’s happened to millions of others who are healthier, happier and wiser today.

You will get through this. The next few months will understandably be awful. You are surrounded by people who have loved that and understand you completely.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:15 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Where to begin? I guess by just saying that we are all humans. We are all unique. Every circumstance is unique. We all fuck up from time to time. When we do, it's our fault. This forum and website has been amazingly helpful to me. When blinded by emotion and never having planned to deal with a problem like this, it has been amazing to have others who have been in my shoes give some non-emotional eyes to the situation as I've typed it out on the screen. I did however start to feel like relying on this site too much was not entirely helpful. I say this with no offense intended, but the posters on here while they are helping me and the OBS, are always going to be arm chair quarterbacks. I understand that there are patterns to how the fallout from an A goes down. I understand that there are recommended steps and actions to deal with this scenario and psychological tendencies for humans. However, I am the husband to the WW. I am the quarterback on the field using both my planned plays, but also with the skill and experience to read when a plan isn't going to work and changing it on the spot. The discussion and aftermath I had with my WW last night took this path.

When I revealed the A to her sister the other night, part of the conversation was some insight about my WW's family. Her sister and her always called their home the "doll house." She said they were raised to always keep up the appearance that everything was fine. Always happy and never any problems shown. On the outside their lives to others must always appear perfect, basically the equivalency of today's Instagram posts and other social media shares. Always show this dreamy perfect life, but that's never how it is. While they showed to the outside world that had a perfect home, the reality is that on the inside they had a mess. Psychological abuse from a father who thought he was helping his girls to be strong women by teaching them never to show weakness. This information I sort of already knew but it struck me and stayed in my mind as I've tried to read my WW.

I could tell my WW was hiding her feelings and even though I knew she was also hurting I didn't know what she was hurting for. Was it for the loss of the A or was it remorse? Was it both? I reflected on the statements she had made since I confronted her. "I have been so lonely for so long now." "I didn't think you loved me anymore." "I didn't feel appreciated." "I feel trapped." "I feel like I've become just a paycheck to you." "I work all the time and then when I am home you don't seem to want to spend time with me or love me." I understand that to her these are justifications for the A. I also understand that to her they were genuine feelings. Don't get me wrong, I understand that her choice to have the A is 100% on her, but we as BS's can't just ignore these comments. Many of these comments I had heard before on rare occasions at times I know were well before the A. More than hearing these statements from her, it hit me like a sack of bricks that she was being honest and I saw the problems with us that we'd both developed. Her comments could be taken in two ways, panic attached excuses or heartfelt expressions. My experience and knowledge of my W told me that she was expressing both. On the M side, I take 50% of the responsibility. I see the weaknesses that had developed in our M that led to the A. Some of those weaknesses were caused by my actions as much as hers. We had become complacent. We had become distracted by kids and life and neglected what we use to value between us. We were no longer acting like the people we married. We were letting weeds grow in our garden.

I understand that as BS's we have to deal with the A first, and then see if the M can be mended. So I continued to shift that fact back to her. I told her I was still stuck in infidelity because I had not actually seen any action from her to end the affair. I reminded her that she'd seen a lawyer in the morning and that as far as I knew, she could be making plans to run away with the AP still. I told her that I'd mentioned she needed to write a letter ending it and demanding NC and she hadn't done it yet. I told her that while I appreciate her telling me she deleted him from her communication channels that I had not seen this and that even if she did, that it was only a very small gesture towards helping me. Conversation was interrupted by our girls at this point.

Later yesterday once we got the girls to bed, I just walked downstairs and sat on the loveseat adjacent to our couch in our sunroom. She came down also and looked at me and said "God, do we have to talk again right now?" I looked at her with the most stable, honest face and said no. We don't have to talk. I'm just sitting her with my thoughts, but if she wanted to talk that I'd listen. She sat on the couch across from me looked at me and just dissolved before my eyes. She broke down in tears more than I believe I've ever seen her show. She wept. I coldly asked why she was crying. Her reply was "I have fucked up so badly and destroyed everything. I have hurt you so badly. I have done so much damage and I don't know if it can ever be repaired. I don't know if you can ever love me again. I hate myself so much and what I've done." It was genuine. It was heartfelt. It was remorse. This is when I had to abandon all of you on this site. I had to be the quarterback on the field. My brain said to keep my guard up. Stay distant. Stay angry. But my gut and heart said something different.

One of the letters I'd found between them on D-Day expressed to her AP a story that had happened between us. She told him about how she was crying in our home from loneliness and that I had seen her and just walked away. She described how badly that hurt her and made her feel unloved. She asked him who could do that to someone they loved. I have no memory of this event, but I looked at the situation we were actively in and it pushed me to a decision. Do I repeat that action from the letter or do I go to her. I went to her.

I asked if I could sit beside her. She said yes so I did so with caution. I gently placed my arm over her shoulders and she rushed to me as though she couldn't breath if she didn't She wept in my arms for a long time and I just held her there with my own thoughts. I felt for the first time that she might be beginning to leave the fog. She was in pain. She knew she'd made a huge mistake. She admitted it and showed true remorse for breaking us and hurting me.

I did something then that I know others on here are going to be shocked by and will probably think I've made a huge mistake. What I did was simply tell her with honesty that came to me suddenly that "I forgive her."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not delusional and thinking everything is fine now. I'm not naive to the fact that there is still a mountain of shit that we will have to work through if we have a chance. I know I'm not in the clear. I know that this seems rushed to some. I know that I could be making a mistake. But I also new in my heart that at that moment that it is simply what I felt and that it needed to be said. I still have a long way to go to rebuild trust. I still have my guard up in a lot of ways. I may very well be unaware that I'm burying hurt and denying it. But I also know that I have no regrets this morning. We both expressed hope that we could return to being the people we married. Return to the happy. In holding her I was also struck by how long it's been since I had felt such a connection with her. We were bonded in that moment. If became cleat that she didn't love her AP. He just filled a void that we had. I think she realized this as well.

We stayed on that couch for what felt like an eternity. Her beside me and hold me and me holding her. We expressed that we had to keep this moment alive. Neither wanted to stop the moment despite a trickle of rational thought that we'd have to go to bed eventually. I told her I didn't want to stop the moment so that I was going to have to carry her upstairs. This is something I probably haven't done to memory since our wedding night and I did it. She laughed and cried as I carried her upstairs to our bed. We both got ready for bed, laid down, and then immediately went to the other person again to simply embrace. There was no sex. It was just holding on to something I knew I'd lost and found. Not found a person, I'd found us somehow. I let her go first and she pulled me back. She fell asleep in my arms for the first time in forever.

This morning the very first thing WE did was embrace again. She apologized again. I thanked her.I also apologized for any hurt I have caused her in the past. She left for work today and for the first time I felt I could breath. That I didn't need to pop a pill to stay in control of myself. I allowed myself to feel what I believe is justified hope. She told me she loved me as she got into her car and I returned the words in honesty.

Just now as I type she has texted me and asked if I would please help her find the name of a counselor she could see that's in our insurance network. I said I could. She also said that she had downloaded the book I'd mentioned I'd ordered her (How to Heal Your Spouse After Your Affair) and that she was already reading it at work as she could. She told me she contacted her triathlon coach to let him know that she was going to at least take a break and probably stop working with him. She informed her coach that she wouldn't be training with the AP anymore. (They shared the same coach) I thanked her for letting me know and taking actions and that it was helping me.

One day at a time now.

I'll be honest and say that I may need to step back from this site some now. Please don't take offense in this as I value all the time and effort people on here have given freely to try to help a stranger. It has helped me. I'm sure I'll be back on here but I've got to see how to navigate this on my own for the next little bit. I plan to read the replies to this posting, but know where I am and I hope it can make sense to some of you. I'm another story on here. Each one is different. Perhaps I'll be in a position to help someone on here later on. Until it feels right. Farewell for now.

Bahama

Wishing you both peace of mind and happiness

Bahama you said it best when you said that we are all armchair quarterbacks while you are the actual quarterback in the field.

I totally understand what you went through and as you said, you are not completely through to the other side yet but you did what came naturally and I commend you for it.

Well done and good luck but stay vigilant with your health and well being including your emotional well being. Keep us uptodate with your success from time to time as it is a form of payforward for others.

I wish you all the best.

Dear Bahama,

I’m hoping for the best for you, your wife and family. I will keep you in my prayers. You are the shepherd of your home, and you must lead the way you need to lead. I will offer some suggestions.

1.) Assure that she send a NC letter to her AP.

2.) Have her give you all the passwords to all emails and electronic devices.

3.) Create a timeline for you.

Your WW must demostrate transparency which will help to restore trust. I do believe your wife was caught up in the manipulative actions of the AP. She fell for it. He was never intending to abandon his wife and family. Please stress that to your wife.

Be safe and Bless.

Bigheart

I hope this all works out for you. I would never fault anyone for forgiving. I've always thought that forgiving someone was more a gift to yourself than for them as it relieves the burden you are carrying. It sounds to me like you have your eyes open to all of this and are being realistic. I would only add that I hope you got some feedback on her conversation with the lawyer and what she has planned. Did she pay a retainer or was it just the initial consultation? I think I'd find that out before I dove into this headlong.

Oh man... Good luck, Sir.

She's knows how much she has to lose.

Her boyfriend has quit her.

You sir are being manipulated.

I wish you the best.

Thanks for updating, Bahama. I had a similar experience, and I never shared much at the beginning on this site (actually, I didn't find it until several months post Dday) because I didn't want to have to deal with the mistrust of strangers. This is a great site, but I also was on the ground and knew I had the maturity and intelligence to deal with the situation I faced. I have to be honest -- reconciliation has been extremely hard. I differentiate that from rugsweeping, something I did not do; reconciliation is facing all of it, all of the time, for day after day after day for what seems like forever. And yet, if you can come to that as a betrayed spouse from a place of strength and compassion, it can be the right choice for you. I believe it was the right choice for me, though there are a few broken glasses flung into the fireplace that reflect my less-than-mature moments. All in all, I'm proud of myself, and I know that I'll be OK no matter what. And I think you will be as well. Peace to you, Bahama, and to your kids.

You are right that those are all excuses to cheat. My fwh said the same things to me at first. Yes, it may have been how they really felt, but it's also a way to blame shift and avoid responsibility. There needs to be a shift to realizing that they had so many other choices of how to deal with those feelings, and they made the wrong choices. Those choices are in them.

You know what, I felt lonely and unloved and discounted and dismissed and taken for granted. I was also going through a very tough time, personally. When I needed him most, my fwh abandoned me for OW. I still didn't cheat. I tried to talk to my fwh. I went to counseling, and took him with me sometimes.

It sounds like maybe your WW is starting to make that shift. Moving from blameshifting to taking responsibility. Moving from regret to remorse. Now, it's time for you both to take it further. Get professional help for yourselves, separately. And, like others have say, stay vigilant.

Bahama- I was away, but just read this whole thing. I, myself, am 7 years out from Dday. I am very happy with my life today. I have forgiven my W and she endeavors daily to show me she is not the same person that cheated on me. I am proud of what I have overcome to get to this point today. I love my W more today that I did when we got M'd. We disagree, but communicate very effectively now on every and any topic. Not all Ms survive this, but some do. Some even thrive afterwards. No, you can't go back, but you can build M 2.0. You both need to heal and the blame assignment matters a whole lot less when you are living your life in a way that makes you fulfilled and happy.

No matter what advice you get here, it is 100% your life and only you need to live in it. Take what you need and leave the rest. There is no one way to handle this trauma.

Sometimes things do work out, sometimes they don't, but if you recover from this you do win. The only thing I did not hear you mention was IC for yourself. I would advise you to do that. It was the best thing I ever did for myself. I healed tremendously from my W's A, but also from a lot of baggage I did not realize intruded on the present. Working on yourself is never wasted.

FWIW- You can't can't R in anger. Anger burns itself out and leads to hoplessness. I don't think you did anything wrong with your W when she finally broke her fog. She is being active in healing herself and rebuilding trust that as close to a definition as I have for remorse right now.

There are a few of us that are R'd ourselves and give you very good advice. There will be bad, hopeless and "I want to D days," but there will be good days too. You deserve a few good days.

We will be here when you get back. FYI there is Reconciliation forum dedicated to people in R. I suggest making a post there. It is less about surviving and more about "the next step."

Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.

Good luck, Bahama. You're right to take it day by day. Just remember, reconcilation is an ultra-marathon, not a sprint. And there are a lot of hills.

There is a reconcilation forum here as well.

Every reason and justification your WW gave you for her affair was all 100% prime, grade-A, American bullshit. She's doing everything she can to get you to take the blame for her bad decisions and lack of boundaries.

You give up your own aspirations and career goals to stay at home and be a SAHD, and she repays you with adultery.

But if you are fine with that, and okay with accepting blame, then more power to you. I hope it works out for ya.

I hope you are still going to see an attorney to do your own fact finding.

I hope you keep posting. You of course do not have to do anything that anyone suggests, but posting would be good to get info and support. You could even move to posting in the reconciliation section if you wanted.

If you don't keep posting at least keep reading. You will see yourself and your wife in so many others.

My friend. Communication Is always what many of us preach. But it has to be a two ways street. It sounds like at least for this moment she has finally opened up to that.

But if she does collapse under the realization and knowledge that she’s hurt so badly the man she loves, gets her act together, and does the long hard work needed, a man can find love again for a WW because of the pride he has in how much she has changed, how much she has shown remorse, and how much she has tried to uplift the husband she injured.

I wrote you that a few days ago. It sounds like the collapse has happened. That is good. This is a long slow process.

No one here wanted you to D. At least not the long time posters. We wanted you to recognize that the front she was putting up was making R impossible at that time and your only chance at making her see what was really important was to show her you were not going to stand for her continuing wayward behavior and deflecting.

While you may have been busy being a good father and perhaps missed cues that the M was deteriorating, I still think it was on her to say to the man working hard fulfilling his agreed to obligations in the M: “hey, this isn’t working for me, I’m losing US!”

Instead of betraying her whole family to a knight in shining armor who her husband, had with confidence in his wife, agreed was ok to work with. That is the true betrayal here.

Bahama, the conversation you had was exactly what we wanted you to get to. You did everything well to get you to that point.

But the next days months years of steps will determine what happens next.

If you rug sweep and immediately move on, you’ll be right back where you were.

You each need to do that soul searching in IC. She needs to process and review what she has done to get to a point where she knows she’ll take a different approach to communicating with her husband in the future when time gets tough.

And while you said the words “I forgive” I don’t believe you truly have yet. The pain you have been stricken with will take a long time yourself to process in IC to get to the point that you really understand what you are forgiving her for and if you really feel you can. You need to reconcile in your mind what she has done and what she did. That takes time. And Her work and how she does it will alsoreally determine if that’s possible for you.

You love your wife. That’s a fact. She’s hurting too, that’s also a fact.

The work can only begin when she takes off that mask and exposes to you like she did last night.

But that wasn’t “the work” itself, it was just the moment where she is saying “I want you, I want to fix this, I am so sorry”. It’s what you needed to get to to make R possible. But honestly, it’s now what you need her to say and think the next 50 years until one of you dies of old age. Yes you can say it in return.

But let’s make sure that tomorrow she still says it and isn’t still mourning the loss of the AP and the emotional and physical connection they had.

Let’s make sure that she takes those steps you need.

I hope she does. I even think she will.

My only concern is that you don’t confuse this one wonderful conversation for “the work “ itself.

With that said. Good job. I hope you keep posting. We can be there to bounce ideas with. It’s a long process. It’s overwhelming. Use us for what you need.

We’ll be here

[This message edited by Stevesn at 12:35 PM, March 1st (Friday)]

The problem with armchair quarterbacks is that they’ve never been in the game. The posters on this site are like getting your information from Johnny Unitas, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana and Tom Brady. They see you, a HS football quarterback, playing a game for the first time and are offering you their wisdom.

You're exactly right that our own personal experience with infidelity plays a big part in the advice given. So those who have dealt with a remorseless cheater or a fence sitter are much less charitable. Even with a 'remorseful' spouse who ostensibly does everything right, reconciliation is hard. The exact magnitude of what has been done to you will hit you after the initial rush to get your marriage back on track is over. You might want to leave even if she does everything right. We just hope that you protect yourself financially and emotionally before attempting reconciliation which is really challenging. I wish you and your kids luck in your journey. Taking a step back and deciding for yourself is the right choice.