SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I hope you have not shared SI with your wife.

And I really hope you haven't told your wife that the OBS is posting here. The OBS deserves a safe place to heal. It would be an incredible violation for your wife to read the OBS's posts,and get a front row seat to her pain. Your wife has intruded in the life of the OBS enough.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:12 PM, March 3rd (Sunday)]

I believe I suggested "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. McDonald. I don't know which book you ordered or the ebook your WW downloaded. If it was this one - great. If not, I highly recommend this one over any other to start with.

ETA: If this is genuine you are one of the lucky BSs.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 5:22 PM, March 3rd (Sunday)]

Maybe she is one of the ones who gets the wake up call fairly early. Her disclosure of what she talked about with her lawyer rang true to me (a lawyer). Ignore any calls here to immediately divorce and follow your own instincts. You are setting good boundaries and putting therapy in place, and how that plays out will show you what you need to know.

Please do keep posting, as I think you need this community as a sounding board and for support.

Bahama:

From what you have described these are all good first steps. I am guardedly optimistic if she can sustain her actions over time. She has had quite a dramatic change in attitude over a short period. I think it is especially good that in response to her attorney’s questions, all of her purported reasons for blaming you for her A fell apart as she was talking and she realized it was all bullshit. Self realization of being dead wrong is the strongest mechanism for bringing about true change. Others I’m sure will share their skepticism of her motivations. I will accept that you know your WW well and can tell when she is being genuine. Of course be vigilant. But she is voluntarily reaching out and trying to help you and apologize. Good for her. First you need to recover before you can consider R. But you have described positive first steps. Your WW needs to be there as you trigger from painful mind movies and help you as you ride the negative downside of the rollercoaster, without defensiveness. She has to take your questions and anger without lashing back. The worst thing you could do is rugsweep the A and go on. IC is a must.

Long term, it is important to realize that old ingrained attitudes die hard or re-emerge. Your WW seemed to believe that when she was unhappy in her M this selfishly entitled her to have an A. If you are going to try and R and have any long term M success she is going to have to grow and change from that attitude. In every M there are periods where one spouse or the other feels neglected, unappreciated or unloved. It’s at those times when the M vows are most important and communication a must, rather than to look for validation outside of the M.

Also, it appears you and your WW if you are to R need to have a serious conversation about the career dynamics in your M. Your WW made statements which indicate she has some deep seated resentments over being the main breadwinner. If you are to continue in your current role as a SAHD, you need to make sure you both are fully supportive of you not working.

Your WW does not appear to be evil. She is broken but if she is willing to do the hard work you can move forward together ifbthat is what youndecide you want. Her actions were selfish, entitled and immature leading to her A.

I hope the positive steps continue. Time is your ally. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 5:41 PM, March 3rd (Sunday)]

I'm glad you WW is taking a number of positive actions.

I know that you want to R if possible and I do hope you will be able to do that. She needs to be willing to work as hard, if not even harder at R than you. You can't do that for her, you can't carry her. You each need to heal your own self and she has the additional task of helping you.

Remember that this isn't a mile run but is an ultramarathon and at least the first half will be uphill in steep mountains. If she really wants to R, you will see her continuing to doing the work over the coming months and years.

It sounds like you are being smart. I think some WPs do get it very quickly. Hopefully, yours is one of them and is sincere. Not every wayward is evil the way some on here portray.

When I was in the early days of R, I had to ignore a lot of what was said on here because it just didn't apply to my fwh. Some people got very angry and said he would cheat again in no time and my M would fall apart. Over 4 years later, here we are, still together, my fwh still being and doing everything he can to help me feel safe.

just remember who has the power now in the relationship. You. you can demand anything you like from her (within the law). if she did anything with AP that she wouldn't with you for example- that would be absolutely outrageous. sexually she should be amazing up to old age quite frankly! she should never complain, criticize, deceive, manipulate you ever again EVER. about anything - again to do would be absolutely outrageous. make it clear this is a life long requirement from her. no ifs or buts. personally i would state the possibility that as part f your personal de-emasculation process you may need to even the score via something like Ashley Maddison - after all im sure she would want to see you back to your full self as a man. this one is controversial i acknowledge.

I haven't told my wife about SI and have actually made an agreement with the OBS that we will protect this site from our WS's. It's here for us. I don't ever plan to tell her about this site.

I ordered the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" book. She ordered "After the Affair" and is what she's currently reading. I just started reading the After the Affair book also.

I appreciate the support and also the words of caution. I know that those warnings come from experience. The path to recovery from the A is still blurry so the path to R is not even visible. I know it's not going to suddenly turn sunshine and roses. It's going to be a long road if we are going to make it. I don't think either of us is trying to rug sweep the problem. Right now we are just analyzing the past, living in the present, and trying to have some hope for a future.

I'll keep checking in from time to time. Thank you all again.

I'm glad you're still with us, I'm also glad that your WW has taken some positive steps and is reading to educate herself on what to do to heal you, btw, I also recommend she downloads "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. The WRITTEN timeline is important with as much detail as possible, it's better to do it now while everything is fresh on her mind, just like you felt better reading the NC Letter, she will feel awful writing the timeline, and that's exactly what she needs, the more she hates the A the more she will hate AP, keep in mind she still doesn't hate AP (maybe for dumping her and not sticking to their plans), if she keeps doing the work, and is genuine about it she will most likely hate him eventually, you don't even need to read the timeline right now if you don't want to, it's often recommended here that she writes a short version (summary type) of the A and then a detailed one with all the gory details and sexual acts and lies to you, she can put both on a sealed envelop and give it to you, have her sign both, you can decide to open and read them whenever you feel comfortable, some people read the summary first, some decide to rip off the bandaid and read the whole thing, it's up to you, but remember if you decide to bury your head in the sand and try to rugsweep this, it may continue to fester long term, making R even more difficult that it is, make sure she knows this will take YEARS and that SHE needs to do the heavy lifting to restore the M she destroyed by having an A.

Gently, if she refers to her A as the "biggest mistake of her life", make sure you call her out and tell her to not minimize it, instead tell her to change the word "mistake" for "DECISION", remember she felt that "out of body experience" then came home to you and the children "feeling guilty" but went back for more, much more and for many months, press her o this, this is exactly what she needs to confront, the "I don't knows" are NOT enough and just plain bullshit, and I'm glad you decided on IC so that she can eventually answer this and other fundamental questions.

Have you asked her at what point she and her AP started considering a life together ? What was on her mind at the time ? At what stage of the A tree was the A ? Ask her how she feels knowing the fact that the A would still been ongoing TODAY if she wasn't caught ? Why when OBS called her out and suspected the A and they were both confronted she couldn't stop at that time ? Was she planning on taking this to her grave ?. On another note, has she apologized your family for her betrayal? has she been tested for STDs yet ? if not she needs to do that ASAP. Sounds that you've taken some control of the situation but are not out of the woods yet, not by a long shot, insist on the post-nup in your favor, tell her you need this protection now that she showed you she's capable of doing this without any regard for you and the children, that she killed the innocence of the M and the postnup should be part of your new reality, if she doesn't cheat again, she's got nothing to fear for, if she refuses then maybe she wants to keep her options to cheat in the future open.

Things have started to look a bit better and that's because of your strong confrontation and decisive action, stay vigilant, remember she lied to your face literally hundreds of times during her A so despite her new found "regret/remorse" attitude, keep your guard up and don't forget to consult your own attorney.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 6:45 PM, March 3rd (Sunday)]

She's given me a rough verbal time frame for the A. I haven't asked for more or anything in writing as some here have suggested I demand. I don't know that I want it.

If you don't want it, don't ask for it. Or ask for it in written form and then put it away in a double-wrapped envelope for the day you might want it. What you do want is assurance that if you ask for it, you'll get it. That's the main thing. The details are just a torrent of pain that add little to the big picture. She cheated. You already know that.

Also, you said she shut down Facebook. You can turn it off, and then you can go one step further and delete it for ever and ever. I recommend full-blown deletion. Just make it go away. Civilization has done fine for tens of thousands of years without it.

I like where you are going, and wish the best for both of you. Such a hard, hard road, potentially one of deep growth.

Potentially.

Sending strength!

Sounds like you've got this, Bahama, regardless of the outcome. Your WW, if you get through this, is luckier than she knows even now that she's married to someone so generous. I would caution you not to pursue vengeance if you're serious about attempting reconciliation. It doesn't sound like you are, but I'm pushing back on some of the posts here. It's an understandable instinct, but not helpful for R. Healthy expression of anger, yes. Revenge affairs or the like, even if not reconciling, will likely hurt more than they'll help. Thanks for updating, and best to you.

respectfully, women simply do not fully understand how crushing it is for a man to know his wife has physically been with someone else. Its thousands times worse than learning she has told another man that she loves him. Its so primal.

How you handle your life is totally up to you.

From what I've seen you've done an admirable job so far.

Take what you need from here and leave the rest.

No one should offer R immediately. Or jump into MC. You have been thru the shock of your life. Take your time.

Just because you now know doesn't necessarily mean it'll end. No one can predict your future.

You've laid the groundwork that you will act. Many don't and pay for it later.

I've read "After the Affair", Bahama. I don't remember it specifically out of all of the books I devoured following DDay. However, I do know that many of those books about saving the marriage after adultery shift at least some blame to the BS. That's bullshit. It revictimizes the BS and minimizes for the WS. There's a huge difference between marriage issues and adultery. Take no blame for her adultery.

That is why I believe the first book to read is the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair". It helps sort out those who have potential for R and what the WS needs to do to help the BS and potentially save the marriage. Remember, too, that even if the WS does everything right and is fully engaged R isn't required. Sometimes it is just a dealbreaker.

I just responded to the OBS so I’m cheating a bit, but even if you don’t want a timeline, the one that she is asking for is effectively useless unless she has a detailed one from you to compare with.

It doesn’t matter if you read it, the end result of the OBS vetting it will be sufficient to serve its purpose.

It's common at this phase for a BH to be in what is often called "the roller coaster", a wild swinging set of emotions that range from near-homicidal range to near-suicidal depression, and everything in between. It's important to your healing to acknowledge those feelings and get through them. Don't ignore them.

It's quite uncommon at this phase for a WW to experience what is called "true remorse" here on SI. At this phase, many WW's have a package of negative feelings around the concept of regret. Regret for getting caught is the first one, but as the profundity of what they have done begins to sink it, that often includes regret for the realization of the destruction they have caused to their families.

This regret can be profound. But it is not remorse. Remorse comes from a place of empathy, where she understands the pain she has caused you as a man and undertakes to heal it.

I'm mindful that you have alluded several times to problems in the marriage preceding the A. The orthodoxy on SI is that choosing to have sex outside of marriage is the worst way for a spouse to address marital problems, but in real life it happens and sometimes the marital issues are intertwined with the A issues. My impression is that you perceive this to be the case here.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 6:54 AM, March 4th (Monday)]

Bahama - she owes you a lifetime of healing you / making it up to you. not a few years. her entire LIFE. the best wife and mother she can possibly be - every single day for the rest of her life. absolutely nothing less will suffice. she needs to clearly understand this.

Taking my time. Taking our time.

My WW returned from work last night and immediately provided me with emotional support. She listened to my feelings and struggles without defensiveness. She apologized again for the devastation she has created. I expressed my fear towards her. I told her I couldn't understand how she could go from in the A, to recommitted to us so quickly. I told her I felt like plan B since the A had crumbled. She said she understood. She said she was still working through what had happened. Trying to understand how she could have done what she's done to me. To our family. To her life.

She then went downstairs to her work bag and pulled out a piece of paper. On it was a list of actions that she said she wanted to take to try to repair us. To try to recover and then repair the broken marriage. She said she knew it wouldn't be easy and would take a long time. She begged me not to give up on her.

Bahama this is definitely a process. It takes a long time.

Kudos about going to IC. It is the single best thing I ever did for myself.

There will be good days and bad. Use SI to get things off your chest on the bad ones. You might want to start a new thread in Reconciliation because at least for now it looks like you both are trying.

The crisis is starting to pass and now the damage is becoming clearer. Your feelings will be clearer. Don't push them away. Sit with them and feel them.

If anything with your W I think you need to keep communication lines open. You have to talk to her, even when it hurts. There isn't another way to demonstrate to your spouse just how badly you hurt from her choices.

Most of those difficult conversations are going to end in tears, anger or sadness. They are not pleasant, but it helps you feel "lighter."

I know this is 100% against where you are at right now, but also make time to just be a couple. You can't talk about the A non-stop. It burns you out.

I think it is important that your W come up with a plan to make amends. Most people will tell it is impossible to "make up for an A," while that is true, it doesn't mean that she shouldn't try. Effort counts a heck of a lot towards showing you that she rally wants to be in the M and for the right reasons. The difference between her efforts and happy is grace. One day you have to find grace. It takes a long time. Think back to time when you needed grace. It helps sometimes. Grace is not a pass. It is because someone wrong you and you give to them as most precious gift they ever received.

She likely is mourning her A right now. She is not mourning the OM, but mourning how he made her feel. It was 100% false, but feelings, even if they are based on lies still illicit the same feel good hormones. She is likely going to go through a period of withdrawal

Most BS can't stomach this and I don't blame them one bit. It is 100% ok to draw a boundary there. She can mourn her A in A. If it is something you can stomach at times try to think of her as friend versus the person who cheated on you.

This is nothing, but bad right now. However this is a golden opportunity to make your life whatever you want it to be. You can redefine yourself in any way you see fit. Maybe that means you rebuild a M that makes you so happy the past doesn't matter as much (I'm in that category BTW). It might also mean that you stay being an awesome dad and co-parent with your W.

Respect. Isn't just a song. Your W needs to show you that she respects everything that you do for her and the family. It gets lost in this mess. While your W might not be able to show you love in a way that matters to you right now she can show you that she respects you. It is a start.

One book that I like to recommend is the 5 love languages book. It is a very short read and there is an online test to take that helps you understand each other. I wouldn't read this now, but keep it in mind for later.

On looking back. . .It is helpful to look at yourself today and look at yourself and Dday to see the progress and differences. It is too soon to do that for your M, but individually I think you can see some progress. Take note of that and be proud of how far you have become.

I look back at my R and I know that it did not break me. It was hard and I would never do it again. However it showed just how strong of a person I am. It showed me just how generous I am. I am that damn awesome. No, I am not the same, but different doesn't mean worse it just means different. I love the person I am today and I want nothing less for you either. That is why I stick around here. I want people to know that this bad time in their life doesn't last forever.

Further I literally can discuss any topic with my W now and I know that if something is not working for me she will move mountains to make it right from her side.

sorry for the long winded post, but as you can tell I am very passionate about this.

Last thing I will leave you with. I promise

My W today views the A like this. While her A showed the absolute worst parts of her. Our R showed the absolute best parts of me.

It is the truth, for me, to look back and see I am the hero in my own story. I was hard fought and painful, but I won. I am still here and I love my life. It is easy to lose sight of the goal sometimes, but just keep going.

(Bahama))

That is an awkward one pat on the back man-hug BTW

Sorry we posted at the same time

I told her I couldn't understand how she could go from in the A, to recommitted to us so quickly.

This is actually fairly common for WWs.

Have you met anyone that had a near fatal accident or illness and made a full recovery ? Often it helps them realize what is important and what they value. They sometimes have a very admirable zest for living.

I think the same thing can happen with WS when they suddenly see everything that they took for granted and want desperately to hold onto it.

Cautious optimism is ok too. Not all M survive infidelity, but some do. Some even thrive.

Based on what you have shared you have a lot to work with here and in your M. She is present and clearly wants to move forward together. You have so much power in your life and your M right now. You might not see it, but you do hold most of the cards. You can play them in any way that you'd like.

If the list doesn't seem like enough, ask her for more. You need to teach her how she will need to treat you. Commend her for the ones that you like and ask her to revise/explain any that don't seem helpful right now. Communicate, Communicate, Communicate.