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Reconciliation :
Head in the sand

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Tomuch10 (original poster new member #80063) posted at 4:14 AM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

Hello room
First, I’m gonna start out with a brief story of what happened. My wife and I have been married for over 20 years. We have three wonderful children. Most of our friends are envious of our relationship, very loving towards each other. My wife had a affair with a coworker about 10 years ago. I caught the affair three or four months into it when I confronted her she said it was over, and it would never happen again.
About two years ago I went through some old emails of hers and found messages to her affair partner two years after she said she stopped.

I fell apart, but she showed me a lot of love and I got through it. fast forward to today. She has a male coworker who lives 1000 Miles away. She seems to be in constant communication with sms txt and long phone calls. I have seen and heard the conversation. It’s all business and family but it’s constant all day long no one else is like that, including her female colleagues. At least 4 to 5 times as much.. He makes her smile and laugh.

What should I do?
Am I over reacting?
I told myself if this happens again, we are done
Should I put my head in the sand as I did before?

posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2022
id 8792123
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 5:58 AM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

Hi Tomuch10, welcome to SI and so sorry you had to join the best club nobody wants to join.

First, I'm going to recommend the pinned posts in the JFO (Just Found Out) forum. Also, the Healing Library has lots of great information.

Two years ago, she did what's called love bombing, only it's not really love.

Putting your head in the sand doesn't fix the root problem. What has your WW done to become a safe partner? Has she dug into the character problem that allowed her to cheat? If this isn't addressed, then she'll lather, rinse, repeat.

ETA: I filed for D the week before our 34th anniversary. Time of marriage isn't always a factor.

[This message edited by leafields at 5:59 AM, Tuesday, May 23rd]

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3461   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8792131
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 7:20 AM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

I’m sorry you are facing this situation again.

Before you confront her I think you need to know what to expect. Because you may be in the fight of your life. My H had a 4 year EA that I knew about from the day I met the OW. This is before cell phones and texting - it was in person. Let’s call her grad school girl.

I confronted. He denied. He gaslit and stonewalled and refused to be transparent. It wasn’t until she made a bold move that he could not hide it.

And that is when he was forced to end it. It was completely swept under the rug. Which is why he started a second affair years later. No consequences.

There is something of an addiction when it comes to these emotional affairs. Getting her to stop may be a challenge for you. Most likely it will go underground.

Since this is her second time doing this- I think you need to have a plan for yourself. If she doesn’t end the contact — you need to know your next steps. It could be the hard 180 or separate bedrooms or whatever you deem appropriate.

She knows this behavior is cheating. She is giving time to someone else instead of you. She puts her effort into nurturing this "friendship" vs putting your marriage first.

If you don’t take a hard stand now she will either continue this affair OR find a new "friend" at some point. If there are no consequences she will continue to cheat.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:22 AM, Tuesday, May 23rd]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8792132
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 11:03 AM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. Don’t put your head in the sand; that is just kicking the problem down the road to deal with later. My situation was different, so I don’t have much advice rooted in experience, but i would read Shirley Glass’s Not Just Friends and keep reading and posting here.

Infidelity sucks. Take care of yourself, friend.

Husband had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Married 20 years at that point; two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 630   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8792137
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 11:55 AM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

So there was not any attempt on her behalf to understand her behaviour in her earlier affairs, nor the effect of the biochemistry of endorphins in the matter, nor fully getting the effect on you? Therefore, the marriage has not been affair-proofed and it does indeed sound like she has let herself slip down that slope again. I’m sorry. Read all the posts with targets in the margins in Just Found Out to inform yourself better and get some blueprints of how to proceed. Keep posting. There’s many here have walked your way before and can help.

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6646   ·   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   ·   location: Europe
id 8792138
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 Tomuch10 (original poster new member #80063) posted at 5:32 PM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

Thank you for the good advice.

She had clearly showed remorse in the past. She clearly loves me and wants me to be with her forever. I am just wondering if I am hyper sensitive to this because of the past . She has other male colleagues and friends. And to be honest, I have felt bit of jealousy at times.

But this one’s going much longer daily Sms txt and Fb messenger at night . I saw a message from him that I haven’t heard from you today yet what wrong.

Finally she has a business trip next month and he will be there

Should I let her go?

How do I move it to the other room?

[This message edited by Tomuch10 at 1:27 AM, Wednesday, May 24th]

posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2022
id 8792174
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 5:40 PM on Tuesday, May 23rd, 2023

My wife has a male friend at work. He is also my friend. They don't text nearly as much as she did during her A. It's all above boards. If you are concerned she should be made aware so that she can give you all the correct reassurances.

As for her lying and keeping the A underground for 2 years, that's a much more difficult problem.

I sort of would give you boilerplate DDay advice and tell her "You have proven you lied about this, so now I need a complete written timeline of the affair (again and what happened after you lied about stopping it) and polygraph to confirm." Honestly she should be offering these things up front since it is DDay 2.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2649   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792178
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Devon99uk ( member #82658) posted at 3:50 PM on Wednesday, May 24th, 2023

I think realistically, only you know whether you want to bury your head in the sand again, that's such a personal decision as you know if you do that you get to keep your current life, but you need to decide if that's really something you can keep living with. Have you thought that maybe you deserve to be with someone who doesn't make you feel like you need to bury your head in the sand over things they've done to you 😔 Sending support your way 🙏🙏

posts: 72   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2023   ·   location: South of England, UK
id 8792327
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 Tomuch10 (original poster new member #80063) posted at 2:51 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Update

Ok I confronted her today. I told her about my concerns that her work friends is becoming more. She told me absolutely not. She really enjoys talking to him, and he is strictly a friend she then said he is happily married with kids, and I do not find him attractive. I asked to see her phone, and I showed her the frequency of communication plus a txt where he said he wishes he were taller she said she find him attractive the way he is . I expressed to her that I was not happy with this because I see this as a beginning to possibly more. She was not happy and told me I am over reacting and extremely jealous.
Right now I’m feeling guilty
I’m fine with her having male friends

What does just seems like it’s going the wrong direction and I worry the next business trip when he is there, it could go in the wrong direction.

Thoughts?

posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2022
id 8792423
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 3:03 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Okay this is discussed in my post. You aired your feelings and she denied there was "anything going on".

Yet you saw a text and you have proof this has crossed the line.

She’s having an emotional affair and refuses to end it. Tells you "you are overreacting ". She’s addicted to the attention and the ego boost this guy gives her. Classic EA signs.

You are now in the fight of your life.

BTDT. So sorry for you. I lived this for 4 years.

You need to decide what action to take at this point.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:04 AM, Thursday, May 25th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13946   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8792425
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gainingclosure ( member #79667) posted at 3:50 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Tomuch, this is classic wayward behavior in telling you there is nothing going on and youre being controlling. Straight out of the cheaters handbook. From what youve told us about some of her comments to the OM and his comments to her, its enough to make even people that havent been cheated on uncomfortable. Dont let this go on. I strongly suggest MC and to have both of you read the book "Not Just Friends" which has several good question/answer quizzes that your wife can take that will rank the risk of her current behavior. Also Google "emotional affair quiz" and have her take a few of those. Maybe she needs to hear it from someone else besides you, that her relationship with this coworker is already inappropriate and starting to fall down a slippery slope. She should care that you already feel very uncomfortable. Say you value the relationship too much to allow this to continue as it is going and you love her but wont be able to forgive a repeat A for your own emotional safety you would have to D. (hopefully a true statement). You may need to file for D to get her to take it seriously and quit her job. You can always cancel the process if she wakes up.

Reconciling BH. Full story is in my bio."The soul is dyed with the color of its thoughts" - Marcus Aurelius

posts: 103   ·   registered: Dec. 9th, 2021
id 8792426
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3Hundo ( new member #78650) posted at 3:54 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Overreacting and jealous?
With her history?
That is some serious gaslighting BS. And so damn disrespectful.
Unacceptable response on her part that will need to be dealt with if you guys are going to make it.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Apr. 14th, 2021   ·   location: TX
id 8792428
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Blackbird25 ( member #82766) posted at 4:07 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Tomuch10,
This is typical EA behavior. I lived this with my WH during his first A in 2012 - and back then I knew he was chatting w/ old friends from HS on fb. I thought it was innocent until it wasn’t and it became a PA. Lots of work reconciling over many years - but I was never comfortable with him texting other women after that. It just bothered me. I’m fine with him having female friends - as long as they are friends of the marriage too. Fast forward to 2022 and him going back to school and going back to work - he’s works with females now and one in particular would text all the time. I think he was getting his ego stroked - even though he’d tell me "she’s 20 years younger!" Granted I saw all the texts and it was all benign school talk - homework, study group stuff. STILL. He would ignore me and text and talk bs all the time with this girl via text and fb messenger. Then in Dec 2022 I found evidence that he and a family friend (using that term loosely because she is no longer a friend!) were texting - very flirty, compliments, validation, attention. The same bullshit. I’m not okay with him having side convos via text with females - I don’t care if they are coworkers. My husband has trouble with boundaries - so no. Until he learns what is appropriate then no - I’m not cool with texting or fb messenger texting. ESPECIALLY when we’re at home together and that’s my time with him. I don’t want someone else infiltrating my time with my husband. So the rule is no texting at all - not coworkers, and def no females Whatever it is, it can wait. If it’s urgent (he’s a first responder) they can call him. If that makes me sound like a hard ass then so be it. THAT is what makes me feel safe. He accused me of being jealous of women he works with - I told him don’t get it twisted. I’m the wife, the life partner - and it doesn’t matter WHY I don’t like texting between him and females - it only matters that it makes me uncomfortable given the past history. That’s all the justification I need - honor me, honor our marriage by NOT engaging in this behavior. You can pose it to your wife in the same way. It doesn’t matter if I look like a jealous ass - I don’t like it, period end of story. If my husband still wants to engage in such behavior - he now knows that he can do it as a single man because I simply will NOT tolerate this. The family "friend" I mentioned is now blocked and so is the girl from school. Neither could just drop it and kept texting even when he tried to NC both. I had to intervene with the family friend - the other girl finally got the hint. I’m not playing around. I don’t like sharing sooo.

Also Tomuch - ask yourself, if this OM is so "happily married" what would OM wife think if she saw their texts?? How does OM wife feel about your wife texting her man all the time, after work, into the late evening hours? Typical cheater behavior is to flip this on you to make you seem like the jealous, crazy unhinged spouse - and that you’re just making something out of nothing. Typical downplaying of YOUR feelings. You are the husband - she is your wife - this is not wife behavior. This is EA behavior and soon to become PA if you don’t put a stop to this. Inform the OM wife - nothing kills a blossoming affair like a huge spotlight on all their secretive behavior. You have seen the texts with your own eyes - they have crossed the line and will continue to do so until drastic action is taken.

Me: BS Him: WH, Married 1996
DDay#1: 5/2012 (EA 3 mos, PA 1 month
DDay#2: 12/26/22 (EA, 1 wk)
Reconciling and doing well.

posts: 195   ·   registered: Jan. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: USA
id 8792429
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masti ( member #54237) posted at 4:51 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

plus a txt where he said he wishes he were taller she said she find him attractive the way he is

Sorry but professional colleagues don't talk like this to each other. This is him fishing for compliments and her taking the bait. The EA is already going on, does she have it in her to not proceed to a PA? You probably need to have a talk again. Or she needs an IC.

posts: 163   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2016
id 8792431
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 4:57 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I agree with the advice to let OBS know that your WW, who has an established history of infidelity with coworkers, is cozying up to her husband. Don't tell WW you're going to do it. Just find OBS and warn her to keep her eyes open.

WW/BW

posts: 3628   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8792432
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Copingmybest ( member #78962) posted at 11:07 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I’m just going to throw this out there and in no way do I think others should have to agree with it. It’s just my assessment of what I feel I’m learning. Wayward spouses, or people with weak morals/integrity need outside incentive to stay the straight and narrow. They don’t (or so it would seem) have the inner strength to stay the course of their own free will. I told my wife if she ever went down this path again, we are done, there will never be a third chance, and anyone who had a part in it, or knew about it and did nothing to try and convince her to stay on the right path, it would be my pleasure to destroy their worlds. My wife’s affair partner from 2 years ago is still owed some Karma, and while I don’t actively seek out retribution, if opportunities arise to give Karma a little assistance it would be my pleasure. I’m not an angry person by nature, I truly love helping others in need, but I was taken advantage of by my wife and a friend and the nice guy will not be present should a reoccurrence happen again. In a nutshell, let your spouse know that if she goes down this path, all hell will break loose and her world will be a very unpleasant place to live in.

posts: 241   ·   registered: Jun. 16th, 2021   ·   location: Midwest
id 8792441
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OwningItNow ( member #52288) posted at 11:44 AM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Sometimes I think that we humans get hung up on the wrong thing.

In my mind, you are struggling to have personal boundaries in your relationship. I would recommend IC for you to address that. You should be comfortsble and confident sharing your limits without guilt. You have a right to set boundaries around what is acceptable.

You are hung up on "proving" this is wrong. Why? Is this a court of law? Are you not allowed to stand up for your own needs? Do your feelings matter in this marriage? Focus on those things, not "proving" anything.

I was initially like you in my marriage, and I learned to have much better, clearer boundaries with my H. Now I am like this:

1. There is constant conversation with someone of the opposite sex (or any other offensive behavior that is happening) and it is upsetting me.

2. I need to respect my feelings. I can't keep them bottled up. They are real. If I have doubts about my feelings, I seek out IC. I do NOT try to convince myself that I am overreacting or crazy! I respect my feelings and needs or I will end up anxious and depressed.

3. When I feel sure that this is indeed upsetting to me, I share my feelings with my spouse. I explain that I am not comfortable with what is happening.

4. A healthy spouse will work with me. But if my spouse has the stupidity or audacity to suggest this is my issue and my issue alone (rude!), I immediately respect myself and disagree. I do not second guess myself. Then I offer solutions, "What can we change so that I feel better? Are you willing to attend MC? Change your behavior? Compromise?"

5. If my spouse disregards all of my offers, I am in a toxic relationship! THAT is the problem, regardless of the issue at hand. At this point, to betray my needs and feelings is to abandon my own self-protection. We must stand up for ourselves, even if our spouse is angry. We are more important than our marriage. I NO LONGER minimize my needs to avoid conflict. I set my boundaries clearly. I share my plans.

"I see. I am the one that has the problem, ok. I will be attending IC while I figure out the best path forward with a spouse who is so disrespectful of my needs and unable to work with me on it. I will gather info and decide how to proceed in a way that respects me and my life. I know where I stand with you."

6. And then I stop having sex, stop doing household chores, stop doing favors and chit chatting with this supposed spouse because they have DISRESPECTED ME AND THE MARRIAGE. We don't act lovey to someone who just showed us that we don't matter. I face the truth of my M and don't pretend everything is fine. I pull back from someone who hurts me, as I should. I naturally do a 180 because disregarding my needs has natural consequences.

7. At this point, I would hope that the natural consequence of losing the closeness and comfort of the M has brought my spouse back to the table, so to speak. When we actually lose something, it hurts. And we hopefully rethink our choices. But if not, if I have been naturally detaching and 180ing while working in IC, all to no avail with my spouse who is continuing the disrespectful drinking, gambling, cheating, whatever, then it's time to D. There is nothing to work with. But this is months or a year down the road while I get strong and detach and make sure that my spouse is truly unwilling to do the work.

That is the natural evolution of any relationship where you have concerns. You are on step 5! You shared your concerns! What do you need to prove here? That she doesn't care about your feelings? That you don't matter? That your upset is no concern to her at all? Toxic. That's all you need to know.

It's boundary time. Walk the walk. Be different. Work on this in IC. Treat her in a detached manner. Do not be FINE if you are not FINE. She needs to feel the natural consequences of disrespecting your feelings.

Please require she attend MC with you to address this. Find someone who knows infidelity. If she won't attend, you must pull back from this relationship. Or you are allowing her behavior without consequence.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:04 PM, Thursday, May 25th]

me: BS/WSh: WS/BS

Reject the rejector. Do not reject yourself.

posts: 5875   ·   registered: Mar. 16th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8792444
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 4:19 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Tomuch,

You wrote.

he is strictly a friend she then said he is happily married with kids, and I do not find him attractive. I asked to see her phone, and I showed her the frequency of communication plus a txt where he said he wishes he were taller she said she find him attractive the way he is

Contact the OM wife with what you know, if it's so innocent there should be no problem, however you know this is not innocent and she is going through the stages of an affair.

One comment I is that you might have wanted to just watch this develop and bust your WW now, rather than wait for her to have her next affair 10 years from now.

What did you do about her prior affair, did you expose the OM/ OMs? Polygraph, etc.

posts: 1484   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8792469
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 4:44 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

She was not happy and told me I am over reacting and extremely jealous.

This is a selfish wayward response. You are not comfortable with this communication so she turns it on you, blames you to protect a relationship you don’t like. She lied and said she’s not attracted to him and then tells him she is attracted to him. This is cheating!!! Don’t bury your head, drag this into the daylight and notify his wife.

Best Wishes to you

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3452   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
id 8792475
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 5:50 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I haven’t heard from you today yet what wrong.

a txt where he said he wishes he were taller she said she find him attractive the way he is

That's not innocent coworker banter. That's EA talk. The first one gives me way more pause than the second, though both are out of line. And long phone calls every day? Nope. Nope nope nope.

I agree that the OBS should be told. And I agree that you would benefit from some IC to help you stand up for yourself.

I also think that your W should be reminded that she's the one with a history of infidelity and she should be doing whatever you need her to do to help you feel safe in the relationship. If she refuses, I'd start working towards detaching from her.

I would not feel comfortable with her going on a business trip with him. No way, no how.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1297   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8792484
Topic is Sleeping.
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