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Newest Member: May28

Reconciliation :
Head in the sand

Topic is Sleeping.
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:37 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

She's telling him she finds him attractive. This is beyond platonic boundaries. Especially with her history.

It sounds like she's gaslighting you.

And,no,she was not remorseful. She was regretful. That's not the same thing. If she had been remorseful, before, this wouldn't be happening. She would keep strict boundaries with other men. She certainly wouldn't be telling them they're attractive. And she would absolutely never tell you you are jealous, and overreacting. She would meet your concerns with empathy, and understanding.

This is her history. She has a pattern. She's showing you who she is. Believe her.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:38 PM, Thursday, May 25th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6683   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8792491
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:40 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Also, since he's happily married, ask if his wife is aware of how much they're communicating. Regardless of her answer,contact his wife(don't tell your wife), and ask her if she is comfortable with the friendship, and the enormous amount of communication. Im guessing she has no idea.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6683   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8792492
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 7:27 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I agree with the other posters.

1. Even not considering her history of her having an affair, her behaviour--chatting with another man this much and saying she finds him attractive on top of that--is extremely troubling indeed. It is already an emotional affair.

2. But even worse, she did have an affair in the past, which only adds to it. My guess is that you and your WW didn't really recover and your WW didn't do the work to get to her why's, you both instead rugswept. (Please keep posting to find out what we mean by rugsweeping.)

3. And...they actually will be in the same place next month. At the way this is going, your WW's emotional affair is about to go full physical.

Please....Do NOT consider this matter with your WW settled, as it most definitely is not. I would let his (the other man's) wife know what is up. That your WW will see this guy in person next month adds to the urgency of you acting decisively i.e., not putting it off.

Please keep posting here in the meanwhile too. We are rooting for you to get out of infidelity!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:27 PM, Thursday, May 25th]

posts: 870   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8792503
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 11:38 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

The statements about them being just friends, not attracted to them, you are being controlling has been written here thousands of time, yet in a lot of instances they do not stop an affair from happening. What would you expect her to say. " hey, I find him really attractive?" This is exactly how affairs begin.

She had an affair for months, then either lied to you or hid the the communications for years.

Affairs have consequences. One of hers should be no relationships with men outside the marriage. Make no mistake, this is a relationship. She should recognize the pain and anguish you are feeling and should put your needs first.

I also wouldn’t let her go anywhere he is going to be without safeguards. You should go too, or she shouldn’t.

The robot would be screaming "danger Will Robinson" of course you might be too young to know what that means 😀

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 12:34 AM, Friday, May 26th]

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2162   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8792538
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 Tomuch10 (original poster new member #80063) posted at 6:28 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Update
We went for a walk today. It was difficult to start a conversation. We won them doing it and talking about what went on. She told me I’m flattered you’re jealous, but we’re just being friends and maybe I was a bit to flirty. But that’s just who I am you know that doesn’t mean anything. She also told me something that surprised me. I will just remind you I’ve been married to this woman for over 25 years. I asked her how she would feel if the shoe was on the other foot she told me she wouldn’t care. I even if I had an affair, she knows I would always be with her. it’s almost like she was giving me permission to have a affair. I never have had anything close to an affair. I said women chase after me and pretty much throw them so help me and I just went the opposite direction.. not wanting to screw up my marriage.

What is telling me now is I could and everything would be fine?

Finally, they were a couple of tips s that you had replied back to me. Thank you.

First tip
Its OK to have male friends if they are friends of booth. I will make him my friend I all ready friended him on fb. Reduced the likelihood of anything happening.

Second tip
Someone said to have consequences draw up devoice papers don’t file. Sleep in another room. Or punish her in some way.

The first I’ve already implemented the second I will not. She is a very hard core executive. She is tough and a negotiator. This wont work with her

Last thought.
I am not freaked out or in distress right now.
I at peace I think her affair will stop. And this time around I’m so much better prepared.

And if something does materialize I will simply tell her you’re killing my love and respect for you. And you make it difficult for me to continue with this someone who does that?


Thank you
Lets close this book

posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2022
id 8792570
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 10:47 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

I asked her how she would feel if the shoe was on the other foot she told me she wouldn’t care. I even if I had an affair, she knows I would always be with her. it’s almost like she was giving me permission to have a affair.

Before you leave, you should ponder this statement. She isn’t giving you permission, she is giving it to herself. She is telling you that no matter what she does, you won’t leave her. That’s her experience and mindset.

Good luck on your journey.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2162   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8792575
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Tinytim1980 ( member #80504) posted at 11:17 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

tomuch10,
 
My BS forwarded me this post yesterday (but I had read it already) and having seen your updates it has compelled me to add my pennies worth…
 
I am a bit at a loss and somewhat frustrated by your WS… A little about me….I am a WS and therefore feel I can shed some insight on this matter. I have a real issue with people pleasing, liking to get my ego stroked and feeling that I need to be friends with everyone (but mainly pretty people!) I also have a conflict avoidant personality. This resulted in me deleting texts/messages and generally just being a douche towards my BS. Something at least that your wife isn’t doing at least!
 
Now to be clear I am not including my AP in the following, the content of the texts/ messages that I have sent over the years were never inappropriate in that it was not me telling people how attractive I found them or anything like that but I would message a lot (NEVER to the extent of your wife) and because of my issues I chose to delete it! This drove my wife insane as she could never vet these messages and see for herself what they were about. Now to the kicker, I justified my actions by telling my wife the usual cr*p "I am just a flirty person, its who I am and who you know and love" I would swear it wouldn’t happen again and then lo and behold it would because the way I saw it….its a you problem not a me problem!!! I NEVER accepted responsibility for the destruction my actions caused, never really looked in myself to consider why I was doing these things and never considered that actually maybe I have an issue.
 
Your wife isn’t being respectful, you have highlighted to her how you feel and clearly it has had an impact as you chose to come here and post about it and she just seems to be blowing you off!

It is unreasonable however to expect her to never have male friends as some may suggest, it’s also unreasonable to suggest that she will never come into contact with another male either. Therefore it’s all about her understanding and recognising the fragility of the relationship. I know that I have to overcome my issues for my M to work. This means keeping my wife appraised of my friendships with colleagues and female friends whilst she doesn’t demand this she blooming well could but believe you me she is the most caring and understanding spouse one could have I therefore the least i can do is just be transparent and open.
 
 It is also about recognising boundaries, if I am getting texts saying about being attractive or questioning why I haven’t messaged that day then clearly there are issues and I would have at some point sent mixed messages. You are right to have picked that up and challenged it! Her response is what frustrates me, she has no right to call you jealous and no right to criticise you. Equally you shouldn’t need to befriend this person, it is your wife’s responsibility in these circs to be able to assure you and offer an apology if its excessive which it sounds very much like it is then she owns it and sees it through your eyes…..
 
I would also be questioning, is she calling you or him more? is she texting him or your more? If that shoe was on the other foot, would she be happy that you are having a female chasing you saying "I wish I had bigger boobs" so you found me attractive? Or questioning why she hasn’t heard from you?! It’s all very strange her response for someone who should be trying to make you feel safe!

I know from my perspective, having discussed this with Mrs Tinytim that neither of us would be happy with this and neither would want it for the other person….the person that you want to love and protect!!
 
Our stories are not exact but they share some similar aspects, she needs to understand why this is a problem if she doesn’t get it or understand then this will always be an issue as it was for my wife for 13 years!!

posts: 81   ·   registered: Aug. 10th, 2022   ·   location: UK
id 8792576
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 12:42 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

The fact that she had an affair and then kept it going up to 2 years after she said she "ended it" would make her current actions and choices a deal breaker for me. I would remind her of these facts and how they damaged your relationship 10 years ago.

It sounds like you didn’t set up good boundaries after that happened back then and now you are paying for it.

I’d tell her this man is in her heart more than she is admitting to and that is not conducive to a strong marriage.

My wife and I have a saying that there is no person we wouldn’t drop from our lives if they made the other person uncomfortable. Our marriage and our feelings for each other are the most important thing.

With your history and if it were me I would tell her she not only has to end contact with this person and ensure she never sees him, but she also has to get him out of her heart and see him as the threat to your marriage that he really is, before you can feel safe to continue in this relationship that she has already damaged more than once.

If it were me I would say, enjoy your time with him, because I refuse to say in a triangle of a marriage and will be figuring out my path without you.

I’m sorry that is harsh my friend, but in the end I think you will find it’s the only way to approach it that doesn’t leave you in limbo with her.

Best wishes.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3605   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8792581
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 2:24 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

even if I had an affair, she knows I would always be with her.

Actually, I think she just told you what she thinks about you as a partner. She feels that she is the prize and no matter what she does, there is no risk of you leaving. If there was ever a cake eating statement, this would be it.

If I were you, I would consider my options and start exploring them. She sounds like an unreformed cheater and I suspect she will return to her old ways.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 20

posts: 1812   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8792619
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 3:01 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

"Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Is mandatory reading for both of you.

You wife is projecting. The "permission" is pre-emptive minimizing. She is lying to you right now. You are in danger. The A won't stop itself.

You are under-reacting and at worst displaying an appropriate level of jealousy because you aren't sharing a partner in monogamy.

She is giving herself permission to flirt with this man AND all other men with "it's just who I am". Are you comfortable with that kind of behavior? Do you think that is how a devoted spouse behaves with other people?

I was in a very similar position to yours and you DDay is coming soon where you will discover she lied (again, you've already proven she's done it once) and they have kissed, or more likely, fucked.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:09 PM, Friday, May 26th]

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2634   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792647
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SacredSoul33 ( member #83038) posted at 5:09 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

I agree with those who have said that she's giving herself permission to continue to be unfaithful. My H did this, too.

I consider myself primarily a BS, but I had an EA a couple of years before DDay that my H knew about in real time, and even encouraged a progression to PA. I didn't yet know that he had already cheated twice and was about to start his last A. I think he thought that if I had a PA, his guilt would be abated and we'd be on a more level playing field. He also encouraged me to start dating only a week after DDay, when we were newly separated. barf Don't let her manipulate you into thinking that she loves you enough to share you. She's telling you that she's not going to stop doing what she wants.

Its OK to have male friends if they are friends of booth. I will make him my friend I all ready friended him on fb. Reduced the likelihood of anything happening.

Except that it won't. Plenty of people here can share stories about their WS having an affair with a close friend, next door neighbor, or even family members. Proximity won't stop it.

Someone said to have consequences draw up devoice papers don’t file. Sleep in another room. Or punish her in some way.

The first I’ve already implemented the second I will not. She is a very hard core executive. She is tough and a negotiator. This wont work with her

She just hard-core-executived you into believing her crap and signing on to support it. Tough negotiator indeed.

The 180 is not about manipulating the WS. It's about taking your own power back. Sometimes it has the added benefit of waking up the WS, but that's not the primary reason you implement it. You do it for yourself.

I hope this works out well for you, but many of us have seen this scene play out several times and it always goes awry. You'll be content for a few days or a few weeks, and then you'll start feeling icky again because you'll know that you got played. I hope I'm wrong. I'd bet my next paycheck that I'm not.

Remove the "I want you to like me" sticker from your forehead and place it on the mirror, where it belongs. ~ Susan Jeffers

Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

posts: 1291   ·   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8792742
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:41 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

How in the world does you friending him on Facebook reduce the affair??

She will be seeing him next month?

Ok. Close this book. We will be here, in a few months, when you find out they had sex, and it's much worse than you thought.

Being passive..like you did after her last affair..just gets you another dday..like it did,after your last affair.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:41 PM, Friday, May 26th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6683   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8792749
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 6:40 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Outside view.

🚩she gave you permission to cheat

🚩 Past behavior / affairs

🚩you view her a tough negotiator

My experience. My H was a corporate big deal. He knew how to manipulate to get what he wanted. So a few weeks before the affair I refused to negotiate an issue. I stood up to him. He didn’t like it and suddenly he now has a new OW. But this time he wants a D.

Spare the gory details but when I informed him and he had to GTFO — he had NO ability to negotiate. It wasn’t a discussion. It was a decision. Of course he’s begging to R. And for the first time he found out he could not negotiate w/me.

Game changer.

I hope this opens your eyes to getting the marriage you want and deserve. If not, you have options.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13929   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8792756
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 7:18 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

I asked her how she would feel if the shoe was on the other foot she told me she wouldn’t care. I even if I had an affair, she knows I would always be with her. it’s almost like she was giving me permission to have a affair.

She's ready to sleep with him. Think about how much energy and effort she's been putting into this relationship. Do you spend that much energy on just being friendly? That is just manipulation to keep you in line if she gets caught. Plus a little less guilt because she gave you permission to have a fling of your own.

Do you want an open marriage? Because effectively that's what you've had all along. Yes, she probably will keep coming back to you. It's nice after all to have someone stable and willing to share the household load. Until she meets someone truly spectacular in her mind and doesn't. I'd suggest you D and find someone that doesn't keep you in competition with others. I would certainly not believe that she won't sleep with him and every opportunity. If I were you I would be more worried about her than less after your conversations.

[This message edited by grubs at 7:19 PM, Friday, May 26th]

posts: 1582   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8792762
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Never2late ( member #79079) posted at 8:28 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

If you aren't willing to set boundaries and walk if they are breached, you've got nothing. Really, nothing. If you think you loving your spouse is enough for a good marriage...without like reciprocation, plus respect and trust, then you are setting yourself up for this torture.

posts: 206   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8792772
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 8:34 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Sadly, your screen name is pretty right on.

posts: 278   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8792775
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 Tomuch10 (original poster new member #80063) posted at 5:45 AM on Saturday, June 24th, 2023

Update:

It has been a few weeks since my last update, and there have been some significant changes in my favor. I recently struck up a friendship with my wife's co-worker she was flirting with, which has had unexpected benefits. What I didn't mention earlier is that we all work for the same company. Her co worker and i have started exchanging posts and becoming fb friends as a result, the messages between my wife and him have only bern on business matters. In only one message in the past two weeks.

Interestingly, my wife even expressed her frustration to me, mentioning that I have taken her friend away. I believe this was an effective strategy, similar to putting your arm around a woman in a bar to discourage other men from approaching.

It's fascinating how subtle shifts in dynamics can impact our relationships. I'll continue to navigate this situation and explore new ways to strengthen our bond.

I'll keep you posted on any further developments.

Best regards,

posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2022
id 8796728
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 11:36 AM on Saturday, June 24th, 2023

But you still have an issue in that your wife continues to disrespect you and cross boundaries.

Just b/c there is no sex doesn’t mean she’s not cheating (and lying) on you.

In effect you may have traded the current OM in for a new potential OM who has not yet been identified.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13929   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8796737
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 1:33 PM on Saturday, June 24th, 2023

Is there a logical business related reason for this frequent contact?
Like are they on the same sales-team or development team and the majority of the convo’s might include work-related content, albeit with some personal touches?
Like "Your last code on the depreciation function was hot – a bit like you" or more direct "I miss you, you are hot with that new hairdo".

Is he her superior in the business hierarchy?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12407   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8796743
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 2:07 PM on Saturday, June 24th, 2023

I do think that including a spouse in the friendship mix can be an effective way of neutralizing an emotional affair in the early stages. But you shouldn’t have to be the one who’s having to stop the progression of an EA as your wife, who has a history of infidelity, dismisses your concerns.

I agree with the previous poster who said that her saying she wouldn’t mind it if you had an affair wasn’t her giving you permission—it’s her making excuses for her own behavior and giving herself permission for her own dalliances.

Is an open marriage what you want? Because that’s what she’s talking about. And she’s not even giving you the respect of addressing it directly and having a real discussion about it. She’s just doing what she wants without seeing you as an equal partner who gets a say in an honest, mutually agreed-upon vision for your marriage. You say she’s a good negotiator, but she’s negotiating like a terrorist or a kidnapper.

Have a direct conversation about this with her. Be strong. Be clear about what you want and don’t want in your marriage.

And both of you HAVE to read Not Just Friends.

Husband had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Married 20 years at that point; two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 630   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8796748
Topic is Sleeping.
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