Gottman and his principles ....
So I'm listening to the Gottman "fight right" audio book and whilst it is interesting I find myself questioning whether these books are really relevant to those on this forum.
So I recall listening to the 7 principles, it was a few months ago and there were good bits in that (wasn't a fan of the questionnaire aspect) however I recall my BS pointing out that actually none of it was relevant because it's not affair related and that we aren't on the same level etc....essentially, I destroyed the marriage and therefore should expect the "4 horseman".
I understand that she is hurt, after listening to rising strong I realise that actually I should be looking at our struggles and realising that she is doing just her best with the shit sandwich I have given her so can drop the self-entitlement and the feeling scorned by her words ...
So my question today, is it possible to have a difficult or emotional conversation where the 4 horsemen are not present? As a WS I expect to stick to the 7 principles but as a BS is it wrong to think maybe (unless provoked) those principles should also apply... within reason and given due credit to the reason why we are in this position.
As he says in his latest book anger is absolutely necessary (I expect it) but in these conflicts it has to be channelled correctly ie not allow the horseman such as contempt or criticism in.
11 comments posted: Wednesday, October 9th, 2024
Continued work and need some advice....
Hi all,
So still trying to work out my stuff and realising the mess that is my head!!!
This last week my BS has simply reached a point where she is stuck with trying to get me to see my errors and my way of thinking etc and is trying to work on herself now (something I am pleased about finally) rather than trying to get me to change or see my ways.
I think for a long time now I have been trying to ensure I stick to all the requirements my BS has requested of me, even applying pressure on myself to ensure I show her that I have what is needed.
These last few days I have been a little woeful, we aren't communicating well and I've been feeling like a victim of sorts in that she is giving me the cold shoulder and not really indulging me in what a marriage should be like or that I'm accustomed too (that sense of loss again).
This leads me to today, we had a convo this morning about how I feel she is being cold and distant despite me trying to facilitate chit chat...it led to her to trying to explain that this is now just the marriage we have (again the loss) and that I was just being entitled... I naturally allowed myself to get petty and upset and made a stupid remark about just being a taxi for her.
Anyway I am at the gym, thinking to myself why this keeps happening and why I am so upset which results in frustration and pettiness
I realised because of the pressure I am putting on myself and my ability to still not be able to just let go and just roll with the punches its causing me to stress and live in this state of hyper vigilance.
In my mind it feels if I am not trying to make this a constant ie talking about the A or trying to check my behaviour then I am going to upset her and cause further problems furthermore if we dont talk about it how is she going to know I am still trying to do the work....therefore I can't switch off when she is struggling and just needs comfort which I then dont provide as I am too busy trying to convince her!
In my head I sit here and i know what I want to do and how I need to do it. I can literally visualise it ...be a good person, be supportive, be attentive and despite what is happening just be present and there for her. I even sit back and think I got this because I just want to be me again (minus the shittiness) so why is it that I can't just not be a penis at times and not snap back or not make it about me??
IC has so far been useless so has anyone any advice or some good books on how to work on this?
Getting back to the gym this last week helps mentally and we are both doing more to tend to our health so I hope this can have an impact....
I hope that makes sense....its taken over an hour and twenty to write this and even I feel confused 
10 comments posted: Saturday, September 21st, 2024
The feeling of loss resulting in anger and entitlement
It's been a torrid week for reasons unrelated to my affair.
As a slight back story, since my A I have been rather quick to lose my temper and become frustrated/downright abusive.
I have made assurances and promises that these behaviours wouldn't be repeated but I have found myself doing just that...repeating the anger, demonstrating a total lack of respect and have always chipped it down to my BSs behaviour (feeling though I'm not being heard, name calling and the perceived lack of respect when being spoken to).
Now this morning whilst sat on the loo I came to realise why, why I have been so angry and why I am struggling to really control this upset.
It's my sense of loss, the loss that i created for myself but feel almost free of any blame for such a thing as if it wasnt my fault!
The loss of the life i knew before hand, the loss of a happy wife, the loss of intimacy, the loss of the respect and likely so much more.
This isn't acceptable, it is entitled it is selfish and it is not conducive to me being a good person. I recognise in myself that this needs to change, throughout I have thought to myself "I've got this, I'll just walk away and be more inquisitive" when arguments/problems arise but I've realised I have fallen into a slight trap in that these thoughts are when in a good place...for when we are good we are good so when it goes wrong it goes very wrong!!!
Im listening to an audio book about how to "unfuck" yourself and it talks about what you have to be willing and unwilling to do to achieve what you want in life and I have been saying to myself how I am unwilling to get angry, unwilling to not listen but more importantly I am willing to change.
So, my question to the WS out here, how do you deal with your sense of loss? How do you process this to become the better you??
How do you keep the momentum going and not fall into the trap of believing you are now in good spot so dont have to read or continue your own self discovery??
Any help would be truly appreciated
7 comments posted: Wednesday, September 11th, 2024
Did I lie? Was a being manipulative?
I will keep it brief.....
Yesterday evening, my BW and I had a disagreement. She stormed off upstairs and I had no idea whether she would return. The kids and I were downstairs watching a TV series and they were eating their dinner.
After their show they asked what they were doing next and I told them it was there lamp time/they could go upstairs.
When she then came downstairs about 30 minutes later, she asked me why have the kids gone upstairs. I said "their programme has finished and you stormed off upstairs". I wasnt pissy but I was upset and frustrated. She asked me again, why have the kids gone upstairs. Again I repeated "their programme has finished and you stormed off upstairs".
This is a programme we all sometimes watch together, but my BW and the kids like it more then I do (I'd happily watch with them but it really isnt my bag). Anyway, earlier in the day we agreed that we would watch something with them but after this I wasnt really feeling it.
Regardless I called the kids down and asked if they would like to watch another episode with us. My youngest then replied "but you told us to go upstairs" (which is true, I did tell them them to go up).
At this, BW disappeared upstairs...
Her view is - I have lied, yet again. She asked why the kids went upstairs and I had purposefully lied to her and said they went upstairs because she had stormed off. She feels I was trying to manipulate her and make her feel bad and deliberately left out the fact that I had told them to go upstairs, which is the real reason they went up, not because of her storming off.
My view is - I wasn't lying. Their TV show had finished and she had stormed off upstairs, so that's why I told them to go upstairs. I wasnt pissed off and certainly wasnt trying to upset her and I certainly wasnt lying to her, in my view I gave her the reasons as to why I sent them upstairs and was absolutely shocked when she accused me of lying literally shocked dumbfounded and confused 😔
Just trying to gauge people's views and opinions on this topic
34 comments posted: Wednesday, July 10th, 2024
How do you ever compete with someones gut?!?!
I'm done in, I cant do this anymore and its killing my BS and turning me into an absolute prick.
I have written a super extensive timeline, one that goes into past and present and some great detail and more than I feel was required but was what she had asked for.
We reached a point where eventually she said she believed she could move on and things were on the up however week or two goes by and suddenly her gut insists that I am still lying and hiding stuff about the Affair and the past....
So we go around in these vicious circles with hurtful statements being thrown at each other and the constant threat of divorce and how scummy I am etc
Anyway it's now reached a point where I feel I need to share my timeline so I have created a blog and I'll post the link here, to highlight exactly the level of detail I have gone into in the hope that others read it and can give some advice on what I am missing :-( I wouldnt even care if she then shared it with my AP just for clarification as I just want us to move on from this aspect of it all now 
Regardless though how do you fight against ones gut? When they insist you are still hiding stuff and your marriage depends on it I have just come from two days of no sleep, on the sofa and then have been a massive prick to her because she threw packaging for a parcel away that needed to go back!!!
36 comments posted: Sunday, June 9th, 2024
Just don't know whats wrong with me :-(
I honestly dont get it, had ic yesterday and I recorded the session for my BS to hear. Anyway during it I was asked "have you now told her everything " rather than simply say yes my brain goes "I'd say yes absolutely 100%" before then going further to say why I feel that way and ending with my BUT my BS would say no.
Anyway Bs feels this was freudian slip, I disagreed but given she still feels I'm lying just added that extra little nugget to this shit sandwich. Anyway, I got angry and said some stupid shit for which I apologised for. Later that afternoon I tried to talk and reiterate my apology but she just repeatedly came out with I dont care and I dont give a shit then the stonewalling came. Anyway mg point, rather than just accept she is upset I got cross and embarrassingly entitled, i was left ruminating on the sofa whilst she took the girls off to watch tv elsewhere claiming I didnt want too (which wasnt true). Being left on my own I was thinking to myself how supportive and good I've been recently in so many ways, how I have been that shoulder to cry on and not had any expectations so given the way she spoke to me and was now treating me (total cold shoulder, ignoring me, talking to me like crap) which had really upset me I just became a prat. I eventually went to bed and tried to explain i was really upset and how I just feel a level of respect in how we communicate should be shown but I kept being told "you don't deserve respect" and that I should expect to be spoken too like this.....anyway I snapped and essentially said to her she was unlovable. I knew it would sting given we had a conversation 24 hrs prior about this but I was angry and that was how I lashed out.
I feel like a pos, I dont know why I cant control this and I cant understand why suddenly I am finding myself so angry when all she is doing is expressing how she doesnt believe me. I know some of it is because we make commitments to one another but I then feel she breaks this but I just hate what this is doing to both us.
Im not really sure why ive written this tbf just wanted these thoughts out my head 
11 comments posted: Thursday, April 25th, 2024
Question for all about why you wont do it again.
Hi all,
This all feeds into a thread in the general section about why some cheat again....
My BS and I were talking about this thread and she asked how I know it wouldnt happen again.
For me the pain I caused my family was just awful, I left, I pulled a rug from beneath my BS feet and had my children broken. Stuff happened which was just awful and that's not inc the A stuff.... anyway my biggie has been that I just couldnt do this to any of them again, I cant go forward in life being an absolute asshole and I really dont want a eulogy where everyone is reminded that I am just an absolute turd. So for me whilst I want to be a great person and not a tit I also have this burning desire to not do this to the ones I love around me as I coukdmt couldn't facethat.
However
My BS has the stance that she shouldn't come into this nor should the kids and it should solely be about me not wanting to be a bad person.....to me that makes little sense as the whole reason i want to be a good person has been because I see what an ass I became and how I treated her so badly over the years AND how I never want to betray her again....does that make sense..
So what's everyone stance....who are you doing this for and what factors in
7 comments posted: Tuesday, April 9th, 2024
Trying to work out my issues...
So after having read daddydoms fantastic "why post" I am trying to figure out my own after my BS was trying to figure out why it was that my A was so extreme..... left the family home for the AP after only a few weeks only to then return after a few days and started some shit show of a rollercoaster along with divulging an awful secret to a friend of ours about my BS.
Now I already know I have massive issues with imposter syndrome, people pleasing and have been a typical conflict avoidant.
So anyway at this point I have got:-
So how the affair happened:-
Felt something was missing within, was down because of work and generally just felt shit about myself didn't feel as important as the other supervisors, felt a joke and was often made out to be that way by them during the day. Felt i wasnt good enough for the team, felt I had to prove myself.
Why did I feel something was missing:-
I wasnt happy, I felt myself drifting away from you over the years, i was too wrapped up in my own self and my own needs and too focussed on what I wanted to feel and that was to make myself feel happy, excited, validated, important and relevant to everyone
Why did I want to feel validated :-
Because it made me feel good about myself, made me feel as though I was popular and important and had a purpose/meaning.
Why were you and the girls not enough
I was too selfish too self-absorbed, I wasn't happy and was bored with work and the monotony of being at (insert location) and then when we started having our arguments i started to feel more helpless which led to more feeling of inadequacy and the like therefore needing more validation which she gave in bucket loads.
Where does that come from?
Childhood, middle child syndrome, not feeling as though my parents gave me enough attention or indeed to much maybe. Not feeling as though I was loved as much as the other two due to either being the youngest sibling or the eldest sibling just being a troublesome teen. Feeling a burden to my parents, grandparents being the black sheep in the family. it felt that way - eldest sibling got all the attn from grandparents, aunts and uncles etc and everyone else I was just too much and too needy I felt.
Why I treated you awfully:-
Was so angry therefore projecting this onto you.
Felt as though you were stopping me feeling happy and stopping me being able to be happy by pointing out my new social desires. Ap at the time was making me feel happy and important, tapped into my need for validation and tapped into my need to feel important, this also tapped into my need to feel relevant to the team and bolster my ego not actually looking at it to see that it just made me look pathetic and slimy.
Why did I go above and beyond in being vicious with words?
Shame and guilt - I wanted someone else to hurt as much as me.
I was too embarrassed to be honest with anyone too embarrassed and ashamed to admit what I was doing so I blamed you and denied it was ever my doing
It was far easier to blame someone else rather than myself. People pleasing again and wanting to have people not think of me as scummy and as someone who could do this to another person.
Divulging your secret
The friend stuff is similar, I put myself ahead of you as I was selfish. Didn't want him to call me out on my behaviour and was too ashamed to tell him what I was doing for a number of reasons....
1.i didn't want him to call me out and highlight what I was doing was wrong and that it needed to stop.
2.i couldn't admit it to him so therefore I put it on you, made you out to be the crazy one so to speak in that you couldn't trust me and never have.
This was also why I then got angry, accusing him of filling your head with crap, not wanting you speaking with him and when you did then getting pissed off as it was as though you were defying me and ignoring my wishes....
It's also the reason for being too afraid to reach out to him, fear of judgement shame and simple embarrassment.
Why I ended up leaving:-
Didn't believe we were right for each other, didn't believe you understood me, believed she did and believed that we couldn't be happy. Clear cognitive dissonance at play but at the time believed it and believed ap and I were to be together...
Was impulsive and lived this fantasy out with no sense of reality didn't stop and consider my selfish actions and instead thought only of myself.
Why I was so impulsive :-
Felt i had something to prove, always felt there was something not quite right in me so had to have the shiniest new things, be the most liked, be the most interesting and funniest but it was all just making my insecurities and my failings.
And now this is where I am stuck and can think of no more....any help would be appreciated as it just feels I'm going around in circles in my head its starting to drive me loopy. Sorry if it makes no sense, trying to keep it short and punchy.
10 comments posted: Wednesday, March 13th, 2024
Triggers and simply being disbelieved
Hi all, I just wonder how many people are in a similar position. So tonight a song came on the radio whilst we were at the hotel we have been staying in. This being madonna, instantly the BS is triggered.
I reacted how I felt I should, stroke on the arm an apology for the hurt I've caused and a genuine want to try and just have her comforted by my presence.
My bs however, hurt as she was then mentioned how she is in two minds about madonna, the main being whether she should just own it and not let it bother her which I agreed she should do.
This then led down a rabbit hole, my BS strongly believes that I knew about the APs love of madonna (I didnt) we weren't friends on social media and never had been but I had snooped on it from time to time especially in the early days (the whole sorry saga lasted only three months). Apparently her name on one platform was XXX Madonna XXX however I genuinely do not believe this to be the case nor do I recall this in anyway shape or form. I have tried to explain to my BS that I never went on her social media to fact find, I was getting all I needed from the AP i was being told the likes and dislikes etc and being told everything I needed to know so therefore had no need to go snooping elsewhere.
I tried to explain that this was how I felt but I keep being shot down, couldn't get a word in and frankly it's just infuriating as my BS again chooses to believe what she believes rather than actually trying to understand.
Her logic is "you were in love with this person, you of course wanted to know EVERYTHING about her so of course you would have snooped on her social media" ....my logic is though the total opposite, I was in a fantasy bubble, i didn't feel the need to snoop as she was telling me everything i needed and her SM was just being used so i could look at her photos like a love sick puppy (vomit). Furthermore being in my little fantasy bubble I was simply just wanting to believe what she told me, nothing more, nothing less.
I therefore maintain I had no knowledge about her and her musical love for madonna....other rock bands (that's my bag) she latched onto that to make herself look better I do know bout.
So my question is sort of two fold, A - how do you handle these sort of triggers, ones which see your BS push you away hard and shut you down and B - what is everyone's stance on their knowledge of the ap? I could tell you a lot of crap about her but some stuff my BS knows....not a clue!!
This was also 18 months ago to just make it clear.
Thanks - just wanted to get this out and apologies if it makes no sense
31 comments posted: Friday, February 16th, 2024
Further insight....
Morning/afternoon/evening wherever in this world you may be.
So this morning the BS and I were in bed talking, she was trying to explain to me why she had been upset the night before and had sent some shitty texts whilst i was at work.
She explained how that whilst she does love me (and always will) she's just not in love with me and how its simply just logical that she is staying with me.
I understand her feelings, I know its illogical to love someone like me when they have done the absolute worst and I certainly havent made any of this easy for her so whilst this is upsetting I cling to any hope that actually her feelings may at some point change towards me in the future, this is how we are still here despite some ferocious rows.
Anyway the conversation went on, I was trying to explain how I want this marriage to work even in the current form (the ups and downs, the anger etc). It's hard work and we have both agreed it would likely be easy to both go our separate ways however there is still that connection and we both love being with each other etc.
Anyway it got to a point where knowing how miserable we are in our current house that I said "theres a part of me which feels we should list the house as it could take 6 months or years to sell and then when we get that offer we can decide whether to call it a day or decide on our next steps together". She then stormed off and rather than try to explain why this upset her opted to just demand I figure it out.
I tried to explain to her that I knew it comes with a risk:-
1.stress of selling and getting a house ready for viewings when we have this to deal with.
2.it may provide her some instability, is she apprehensive about selling as she thinks I will abandon her again
3.if we do call quits before selling she may want to remain in the house for a period of time.
So I do understand this but again I dont know what it is as she wont tell me.
I also know:-
1.neither of us want to be in the house, nothing ever happened here but walls contain memories and scars despite all I have done to try and change it ...so we both have suggested moving.
2.we were looking only a few days ago at new homes either to rent or buy
3.even if we do split she has suggested she cant live here on her own due to circumstances out of her control.
4.our mortgage is due up in 2 years, where we need to add another 50k or something on top and with the current cost of living going through the roof selling maybe our only option anyway.
So I guess I'm posting this as I am just trying to seek the views of others, I know I often say the wrong things and can get defensive however I havent been and I am working long term on this. All I am doing is just trying to find a way to talk to her and give her some options pointing out that she then has the control and the money to do what she needs to do next something which I took away from her in 2022.
To make it clear I am not needing answers in response to her feelings about the ILYBINILWY and how it's just logical to stay as I dont feel that way but I get that is hers I am merely seeking some views of all as to see whether my response with the house aspect was just way of the path or not as I personally feel...if that makes sense.
Thank you.
5 comments posted: Saturday, February 3rd, 2024
Insight required
So I'm having some struggles when it comes to being defensive or trying to explain certain things.
I find that if my BS tries to raise a particular issue, if I then find I don't agree or there is something which i may not find particularly accurate I can end up getting frustrated and spend far too long trying to explain to her why that is simply not the case.
For example we recently had a conversation about some stuff that had happened where I behaved like an absolute child and started stomping around. This had happened after I was called various things and told again "that's it we're done" or words to that effect. I have explained to her before how saying stuff like she has can have a massive impact on me and it almost immediately flicks a button in my head which turns me into a total asshat. Regardless of that I appreciate that it shouldn't happen and that as she is the one who is hurting because of my actions it shouldn't be me who is then behaving like a non empathetic moron!!
Furthermore I also understand that she only gets like this when she believes me to either be defensive or that I am lying or not thinking enough about certain stuff and just blurting out an answer she is a good person with a truly good soul and all of this is out of character.
So to simplify:
Discussion is had....I get defensive..... anger sets in by her... anger is matched by me
Anyway back to my point, during this conversation I had with her the other day I was trying to explain to her my actions and give some context around why xyz happened and then I said in relation to the stomping around "can I say, just ask yourself why I may have been upset or angry that day?" I wasn't saying it in a "are you surprised" or "this is your fault" although I can see that aspect I just wanted to show her that A) I am a WS and therefore an asshole but is it really fair at TIMES to say some of what has been said? And B) that when emotions are high people can and will say or do the wrong thing.
Any way that was it, an eruption of hostility, I was accused of being defensive, accused of trying to deflect and accused of all sorts which simply was not what I was trying to do.
Regardless though I wasn't trying to excuse any of my behaviour as that isn't what my point was.
I then pointed out in a thread she asked me to read about defensiveness that one comment on there was from a ws who described how as WS's we are clearly broken in way, it's clear as day that I know I am in many ways however I am trying to fix that element in me and find ways to try and stop that. So I used his analogy in that if your microwave was broken you wouldn't shout and point your finger at it would you?! Anyway this angered her and led to then 3hrs of me trying to explain again that I was merely saying at times the way she speaks to me is awful and maybe there could be other ways she could tackle this....I wasn't trying to say to her "your abusive and your shitty actions need to change" it was simply just a request for her to look at the bigger picture.
Anyway I am rambling, so my question is ...
Would what I wrote in your opinion be showing any defensiveness at all?
And
In terms of the microwave analogy, was that wrong for me to bring that up?
11 comments posted: Friday, January 19th, 2024
When is it just too toxic
Hi all,
So many of you will know when it comes to reconciling with my BS I have made a fatal error in that I have subjected her to TT and essentially whilst the foundations of the A were laid out to her some of the more graphic details have had to be dragged out of me along with some other of the more relevant bits big and small.
I recently put up a post though in the WS section and one thing that came out of it has been how I seem to really talk Ill of myself and put myself down.
The state of my relationship now is in total tatters, I am often called many things, have had doors slammed and rings thrown across the room and it is generally a really toxic environment....When I say names, if it were just simply "your a cheat and a liar" I could live with that but it's been more than that and has been absolutely horrific at times which has been a real challenge to deal with.
I have snapped back and yes have said some nasty shit too in response to these comments however I have made a commitment to myself that this shouldn't happen and am trying to avoid such things recognising that this is not what my BS needs sometimes this doesnt work.
This isn't all day, everyday we have periods of greatness and we are close and affectionate but after having read one of our A related books its evident tht it's just part of the cycle.
Now, this leads to the last week or two, my BS has been telling me how we are done, not that she doesnt think she can do this anymore but physically done. That she cant see a future for us anymore and that she will never trust me and will never be happy. As a result I have tried to be as honest as I can be to her, I have explained to her how I understand, how I recognise that she has every right to walk away and how she has given it her best in trying to fix the marriage which I soooo easily destroyed.
I have even told her that I don't know if I can be 100% honest yet. I know I can be about daily life and my feelings but as so much has been dragged out of me, now there are just no more thoughts swirling in my head about the A.. she just finds it baffling I even say that but honestly the amount of shit I have spewed out my mouth I can't actually sit here and say that I am now cured and honest!!! I want to be clear I am determined to better myself because I am sick of the burden that is carried within and I want to be a better husband for her given all the crap I've put her and my kids through...
I understand her issue mind, she believes I need to give full disclosure and that I am still holding back stuff in my head and she cant get around this belief that there just isnt anything left.
Anyway last night I told her how I am struggling with this all, how I dont know if I can do this because we are at each others throats and it's becoming horrific. This following another argument about how she cant do this etc...I believe I am being honest to her which is fair and what she has asked me to do, she seems to believe however that this is a sense of abandonment and that I'm not fighting for her (I did leave during her during the A!!)
So to my question, what is to be expected as a WS and how do you deal with a BS that says some horrific things and constantly tells you that they are done and not want a relationship with you anymore?? I suspect my BS is at a place where she is too afraid to pull the plug as we have children and a life together but we keep going around in circles right now and there is just no progress...
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5 comments posted: Sunday, November 19th, 2023
The grass is greener (well its not)
I'm just looking for some insight, I've recently been really struggling with who I am. I have always prided myself on being one with integrity and having good moral fibre however this A has really twisted that all up...I did some absolutely horrific things during my A and treated people that I supposedly love appallingly, it's now left me wondering if it's just because I'm a shitty person.
I never want to repeat that behaviour again, I hold myself to account, regularly making sure I'm not trying ti people please and feed my ego and am know able to see what I am capable of and it's someone who I'm not proud of but more importantly it's someone who I doubt my kids would be proud of.
So My wife and I have recently been discussing her concerns and this includes her worries that whilst i am trying to put in the work now and whilst I am desc and she is seeing how broken I have become that this may change in the future and it will be easy for me to justify and kid myself that this is all ok and I deserve this....hence the grass is greener comment.
I have seen a few posts on here recently, posts where people have gone years or decades and have then repeated the same behaviours again.
I am clear to my BS I am a red flag and I have taken from her all that she has held dear. I need to be a safe partner and I want to be but sometimes I dont know how to express that or alleviate her concerns, how do others manage it. (Prior to all this I never really communicated with my thoughts and feelings so all this is rather new) I hope this makes sense, I can sometimes get lost in my thoughts and to write it all down can at times make me sound a total twit...
Thanks
5 comments posted: Thursday, November 16th, 2023
Insight needed ....
Hi, I need some help with a question I am trying to answer both for myself & my BS....
So back to the point...the question I am trying to answer is simply "what possessed you to leave, throw away your family for someone you knew for four weeks?"
Now during my affair I opted to end the marriage by leaving my wife and kids for the AP who I knew for only four weeks. As you can imagine this has truly hurt my BS who just cant understand why I made such a shitty decision.
I am trying to answer this in the best way I can, I know I was self-centred and only thinking about myself then due to the lies I was telling myself about my relationship with the BS figured that we weren't going to ever be happy all the usual crap us WS tell ourselves. I am aware and have also explained to her how at the time the AP was validating me etc at a time when she was imo getting in the way of all this mess.
Any insight or perspective would be truly helpful..not looking for a magical answer as I know you kind folk can't provide that just a steer in the right direction
2 comments posted: Tuesday, September 12th, 2023
Screwed up things we did with our AP
So I am currently writing my timeline, and have been trying to explain the situation with my AP to my BS during a period in my timeline.
So in short, I work for an organisation which requires integrity and a moral compass therefore by nature affairs arent exactly welcomed and it can be career ending and worst-case scenario can end in prison if the circumstances apply
My BS just can't understand why I then continued to see the AP nor can she understand why I continued with my physical relationship despite wanting to end things with her...
The way I have tried to explain it and my feelings are as follows and i would appreciate your insight.
During the initial few weeks I developed some crazy intense feelings for the AP these were all totally misguided and we were sneaking about and doing all the shady things that us WS do in these situations.
After a few weeks I made the decision that my BS and I were not going to work out (despite our relationship being really good and her being brilliant) and I convinced myself we were riddled with issues.
I then went through a few weeks of back and forth, lots of manipulation and blaming the BS before then reaching the point where I realised that the AP and I were not going to work. There were lots of red flags, she was really obsessed and would be very controlling, demanding to know where I was, what I was doing, insisting I shouldn't come into the marital home to see the kids and then when I did bombarding and blaming me for not keeping her in the loop. It hit a point where I couldnt deal with it anymore so called quits on it HOWEVER it was very wishy washy and i blamed my own struggles for the A ending. Anyway after a couple days I agreed to meet her as she wanted to see me, I did so and we ended up restarting the A by having sex. It was again an instant slap in the face and i realised I just landed myself back in the same predicament again. The AP now started to up the ante, she was now in a panic she knew I was struggling she could see me pulling away and could see that I was starting to have my doubts and so she did what she knew best and that was to throw herself at me and use her body as a weapon.
During this period of time (around three weeks) having known exactly what I had done whilst I should and that it would have cast doubt on me I became very down. I would argue, be dismissive and generally be as arrogant as they come towards the BS whilst trying to find a way to end the A without the AP deciding to go all postal on me and my career thus also impacting my BS.
I was cowardly and felt the best way was to just go along with everything and to just try and turn her against me in ways, saying how much I was struggling and that I couldn't do things anymore and hoping she would see that element of me and decide she couldnt cope either.....she didnt although she had days when she said she too couldn't cope and when I said let's end it she panicked and said she didnt want that.
Anyway as time went on over the next few weeks we continued to have sex from time to time(occasionally it didnt work, I wouldnt be able to perform), I continued to make time to see her albeit I was pissing her off by not going when I said I would or when i did was being all distant. One evening she asked me to visit and I again had sex with her during my working time (this is career ending, could result in jail time and generally just an absolute stupid decision), I have told my BS this and explained about the fact I was feeling low and was already scraping the barrel so I had sex as a pick me up and because I was thinking only of sex at that point.
I wasn't in the fog, I was trying to push her away I was trying to escape but evidently my actions don't obviously show that and my bs is struggling to comprehend this.
I accept i wanted to cake eat and i accept that, it was a truly selfish decision what I did and I took a ridiculous risk which could have bad serious consequences.
So to my fellow WS, what crazy stuff did you get embroiled in?
If a BS is reading this, what examples of funked up stuff did your WS get up to and how did you accept that when trying to reconcile??
On a side not:
I have been an absolute douche to my BS during the affair and now with trickle truthing and cowardice, I struggle at times to really try and explain things i am a neanderthal in some regards so I need to learn to lean on others to get their advice to understand some of these things
..
Thank you all in advance
19 comments posted: Thursday, July 27th, 2023
Damned if you do....damned if you dont
So firstly thank you for all those that responded to my thread about guilt. It helped clear up some bits for me and my partner and I am thankful for that.
Now i am finding myself once more in an incredibly difficult/frustrating position... I've mentioned a few times on other posts that the journey we have come along in terms of recovery hasn't been the best. I trickle truthed, out and out lied and was a total ass at times HOWEVER I did start a new job, cut the AP totally out of my life and have totally changed so much about me. BS though as a result has had to dig the truth from me, something which hasn't been fair on her or our relationship. I accept this and understand this but this now leads to where we are now..
My BS or STBXBS if that's the correct term keeps insisting I am still lying about stuff, stuff which she claims she KNOWS to be lies (as its obvious to her) and therefore once again today claims we are over....I am somewhat in a bind mind, as the things she is asking are not horrific, doesn't change anything, doesn't actually further prove anything other than me being a bit of a moron and therefore gives me no reason to lie and cover up.
For example, she has asked if I met my AP , in a works e time (it was once) that I did, of course you did". Now I know this is my own making, I know I have caused all this but I genuinely feel in a better place than I did a few months ago with regards to my dishonesty. I am still going through CBT, have done some IC done lots of reading about lying, have listened to some hypnotherapy and have been a lot more open and honest with her reference everything going on in my world.
I honestly don't know what more to do, the easy way out ironically is just to lie and say I have done these things she is suggesting as that way I get kudos for being "honest" and it gives her that little bump but I can't bring myself to do that and therefore haven't but the kicker here is that CLEARLY I am lying according to her therefore we just go around in circles. Last week she had drawn out a text and claimed to have messaged the AP, something that I didnt stop her from doing despite the fact she is unhinged.
I guess nothing really matters anyway as she has once again said we are done but my question was...
What would you all do in this postion?? Is there anything that can be done to salvage this ?? Or is it just too far gone .... I cant see there being any fix personally now no matter how supportive or safe I am being.
Just feel a little lost and helpless at the moment and sorry if this comes across all woe is me....I am trying not to be
55 comments posted: Saturday, July 15th, 2023
