When is it just too toxic

Hi all,

So many of you will know when it comes to reconciling with my BS I have made a fatal error in that I have subjected her to TT and essentially whilst the foundations of the A were laid out to her some of the more graphic details have had to be dragged out of me along with some other of the more relevant bits big and small.

I recently put up a post though in the WS section and one thing that came out of it has been how I seem to really talk Ill of myself and put myself down.

The state of my relationship now is in total tatters, I am often called many things, have had doors slammed and rings thrown across the room and it is generally a really toxic environment....When I say names, if it were just simply "your a cheat and a liar" I could live with that but it's been more than that and has been absolutely horrific at times which has been a real challenge to deal with.

I have snapped back and yes have said some nasty shit too in response to these comments however I have made a commitment to myself that this shouldn't happen and am trying to avoid such things recognising that this is not what my BS needs sometimes this doesnt work.

This isn't all day, everyday we have periods of greatness and we are close and affectionate but after having read one of our A related books its evident tht it's just part of the cycle.

Now, this leads to the last week or two, my BS has been telling me how we are done, not that she doesnt think she can do this anymore but physically done. That she cant see a future for us anymore and that she will never trust me and will never be happy. As a result I have tried to be as honest as I can be to her, I have explained to her how I understand, how I recognise that she has every right to walk away and how she has given it her best in trying to fix the marriage which I soooo easily destroyed.

I have even told her that I don't know if I can be 100% honest yet. I know I can be about daily life and my feelings but as so much has been dragged out of me, now there are just no more thoughts swirling in my head about the A.. she just finds it baffling I even say that but honestly the amount of shit I have spewed out my mouth I can't actually sit here and say that I am now cured and honest!!! I want to be clear I am determined to better myself because I am sick of the burden that is carried within and I want to be a better husband for her given all the crap I've put her and my kids through...

I understand her issue mind, she believes I need to give full disclosure and that I am still holding back stuff in my head and she cant get around this belief that there just isnt anything left.

Anyway last night I told her how I am struggling with this all, how I dont know if I can do this because we are at each others throats and it's becoming horrific. This following another argument about how she cant do this etc...I believe I am being honest to her which is fair and what she has asked me to do, she seems to believe however that this is a sense of abandonment and that I'm not fighting for her (I did leave during her during the A!!)

So to my question, what is to be expected as a WS and how do you deal with a BS that says some horrific things and constantly tells you that they are done and not want a relationship with you anymore?? I suspect my BS is at a place where she is too afraid to pull the plug as we have children and a life together but we keep going around in circles right now and there is just no progress...

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5 comments posted: Sunday, November 19th, 2023

The grass is greener (well its not)

I'm just looking for some insight, I've recently been really struggling with who I am. I have always prided myself on being one with integrity and having good moral fibre however this A has really twisted that all up...I did some absolutely horrific things during my A and treated people that I supposedly love appallingly, it's now left me wondering if it's just because I'm a shitty person.

I never want to repeat that behaviour again, I hold myself to account, regularly making sure I'm not trying ti people please and feed my ego and am know able to see what I am capable of and it's someone who I'm not proud of but more importantly it's someone who I doubt my kids would be proud of.

So My wife and I have recently been discussing her concerns and this includes her worries that whilst i am trying to put in the work now and whilst I am desc and she is seeing how broken I have become that this may change in the future and it will be easy for me to justify and kid myself that this is all ok and I deserve this....hence the grass is greener comment.

I have seen a few posts on here recently, posts where people have gone years or decades and have then repeated the same behaviours again.

I am clear to my BS I am a red flag and I have taken from her all that she has held dear. I need to be a safe partner and I want to be but sometimes I dont know how to express that or alleviate her concerns, how do others manage it. (Prior to all this I never really communicated with my thoughts and feelings so all this is rather new) I hope this makes sense, I can sometimes get lost in my thoughts and to write it all down can at times make me sound a total twit...

Thanks

4 comments posted: Thursday, November 16th, 2023

Insight needed ....

Hi, I need some help with a question I am trying to answer both for myself & my BS....

So back to the point...the question I am trying to answer is simply "what possessed you to leave, throw away your family for someone you knew for four weeks?"

Now during my affair I opted to end the marriage by leaving my wife and kids for the AP who I knew for only four weeks. As you can imagine this has truly hurt my BS who just cant understand why I made such a shitty decision.

I am trying to answer this in the best way I can, I know I was self-centred and only thinking about myself then due to the lies I was telling myself about my relationship with the BS figured that we weren't going to ever be happy all the usual crap us WS tell ourselves. I am aware and have also explained to her how at the time the AP was validating me etc at a time when she was imo getting in the way of all this mess.

Any insight or perspective would be truly helpful..not looking for a magical answer as I know you kind folk can't provide that just a steer in the right direction

2 comments posted: Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

Screwed up things we did with our AP

So I am currently writing my timeline, and have been trying to explain the situation with my AP to my BS during a period in my timeline.

So in short, I work for an organisation which requires integrity and a moral compass therefore by nature affairs arent exactly welcomed and it can be career ending and worst-case scenario can end in prison if the circumstances apply

During my affair I made the stupid and utterly ridiculous decision to have sex with her in her office after work. I immediately regretted that decision after and then as time went on it made me more and more paranoid about the lengths she may go too to try and destroy my world.

My BS just can't understand why I then continued to see the AP nor can she understand why I continued with my physical relationship despite wanting to end things with her...

The way I have tried to explain it and my feelings are as follows and i would appreciate your insight.

During the initial few weeks I developed some crazy intense feelings for the AP these were all totally misguided and we were sneaking about and doing all the shady things that us WS do in these situations.

After a few weeks I made the decision that my BS and I were not going to work out (despite our relationship being really good and her being brilliant) and I convinced myself we were riddled with issues.

I then went through a few weeks of back and forth, lots of manipulation and blaming the BS before then reaching the point where I realised that the AP and I were not going to work. There were lots of red flags, she was really obsessed and would be very controlling, demanding to know where I was, what I was doing, insisting I shouldn't come into the marital home to see the kids and then when I did bombarding and blaming me for not keeping her in the loop. It hit a point where I couldnt deal with it anymore so called quits on it HOWEVER it was very wishy washy and i blamed my own struggles for the A ending. Anyway after a couple days I agreed to meet her as she wanted to see me, I did so and we ended up restarting the A by having sex in her car. It was again an instant slap in the face and i realised I just landed myself back in the same predicament again. The AP now started to up the ante, she was now in a panic she knew I was struggling she could see me pulling away and could see that I was starting to have my doubts and so she did what she knew best and that was to throw herself at me and use her body as a weapon.

During this period of time (around three weeks) having known exactly what I had done whilst I should have been working and that it would have cast doubt on me I became very down. I would argue, be dismissive and generally be as arrogant as they come towards the BS whilst trying to find a way to end the A without the AP deciding to go all postal on me and my career thus also impacting my BS.

I was cowardly and felt the best way was to just go along with everything and to just try and turn her against me in ways, saying how much I was struggling and that I couldn't do things anymore and hoping she would see that element of me and decide she couldnt cope either.....she didnt although she had days when she said she too couldn't cope and when I said let's end it she panicked and said she didnt want that.

Anyway as time went on over the next few weeks we continued to have sex from time to time(occasionally it didnt work, I wouldnt be able to perform), I continued to make time to see her albeit I was pissing her off by not going when I said I would or when i did was being all distant. One evening during work she asked me to visit and I again had sex with her during my working time (this is career ending, could result in jail time and generally just an absolute stupid decision), I have told my BS this and explained about the fact I was feeling low and was already scraping the barrel so I had sex as a pick me up and because I was thinking only of sex at that point.

I wasn't in the fog, I was trying to push her away I was trying to escape but evidently my actions don't obviously show that and my bs is struggling to comprehend this.

I accept i wanted to cake eat and i accept that, it was a truly selfish decision what I did and I took a ridiculous risk which could have bad serious consequences.

So to my fellow WS, what crazy stuff did you get embroiled in?

If a BS is reading this, what examples of funked up stuff did your WS get up to and how did you accept that when trying to reconcile??

On a side not:

I have been an absolute douche to my BS during the affair and now with trickle truthing and cowardice, I struggle at times to really try and explain things i am a neanderthal in some regards so I need to learn to lean on others to get their advice to understand some of these things
..

Thank you all in advance

19 comments posted: Thursday, July 27th, 2023

Damned if you do....damned if you dont

So firstly thank you for all those that responded to my thread about guilt. It helped clear up some bits for me and my partner and I am thankful for that.

Now i am finding myself once more in an incredibly difficult/frustrating position... I've mentioned a few times on other posts that the journey we have come along in terms of recovery hasn't been the best. I trickle truthed, out and out lied and was a total ass at times HOWEVER I did start a new job, cut the AP totally out of my life and have totally changed so much about me. BS though as a result has had to dig the truth from me, something which hasn't been fair on her or our relationship. I accept this and understand this but this now leads to where we are now..

My BS or STBXBS if that's the correct term keeps insisting I am still lying about stuff, stuff which she claims she KNOWS to be lies (as its obvious to her) and therefore once again today claims we are over....I am somewhat in a bind mind, as the things she is asking are not horrific, doesn't change anything, doesn't actually further prove anything other than me being a bit of a moron and therefore gives me no reason to lie and cover up.

For example, she has asked if I met my AP whilst at work, in a works vehicle at night in a remote location OTHER than the time (it was once) that I did. I didn't but to her this is a flat out lie and NOW she claims I did as "you were obsessed with one another, of course you did". Now I know this is my own making, I know I have caused all this but I genuinely feel in a better place than I did a few months ago with regards to my dishonesty. I am still going through CBT, have done some IC done lots of reading about lying, have listened to some hypnotherapy and have been a lot more open and honest with her reference everything going on in my world.

I honestly don't know what more to do, the easy way out ironically is just to lie and say I have done these things she is suggesting as that way I get kudos for being "honest" and it gives her that little bump but I can't bring myself to do that and therefore haven't but the kicker here is that CLEARLY I am lying according to her therefore we just go around in circles. Last week she had drawn out a text and claimed to have messaged the AP, something that I didnt stop her from doing despite the fact she is unhinged.

I guess nothing really matters anyway as she has once again said we are done but my question was...

What would you all do in this postion?? Is there anything that can be done to salvage this ?? Or is it just too far gone .... I cant see there being any fix personally now no matter how supportive or safe I am being.

Just feel a little lost and helpless at the moment and sorry if this comes across all woe is me....I am trying not to be

55 comments posted: Saturday, July 15th, 2023

Fear of guilt or not during affair

Guilt ....

So the question which has been causing some setbacks in the tinytim household surrounds the feelings of guilt or lack thereof during the affair period.

Now my BS and I have been trying to reconcile for the last 13 months and whilst it's been difficult we have made progress and I feel are in a good place 99% of the time.

One thing that has her stumped mind is my lack of guilt, my 3 month PA was pretty chaotic. My BS has asked whether I felt any guilt during the Affair or at any point before the physical stuff happened. I have been honest and have said i dont think I did but then certain actions of mine felt as though I did....I didn't like the person I was becoming, I was taking it out on her and the more she was trying to pull me closer and try to help me in ways I just hunkered on down and was even worse towards her. I know how I felt though, I know what was running through my mind but appreciate that she doesnt and is struggling.

My question to you all though is, what did guilt look like to you from your ws or what did you demonstrate to your bs?

Thanks all

16 comments posted: Saturday, July 8th, 2023