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In response to the reason you gave why you disagreed with my post, I’ll only say that look closely at where that specific approach has gotten you wrt R.

With regard to your WW posting in the wayward forum, I guess it can’t hurt. However, I would go back to the straw that broke the camels back for you - your WW bringing your daughter into her A and into the orbit of her AP. Your WW considered this a minor infraction - simply a bad parenting decision.

IMO, posting on the wayward forum can’t fix this type of ingrained thought process. This goes way deeper than that.

If I still had fight left in me, I’d think about it. But I do see a difference between demanding that she get rid of lingerie she wore for him due to the obvious triggers and pain to me vs insisting that she be completely vulnerable with strangers. It’s ok if we see this differently. But mainly I’m just done trying to influence her. She is 100% in charge of her at this point, I’m done.

In response to the reason you gave why you disagreed with my post, I’ll only say that look closely at where that specific approach has gotten you wrt R.

I promise I don’t disagree with you just for the sake of it. I reserve that only for WBFA, it’s this special thing we have. But by you saying the above, you are implying that if only I had done things just the right way that by my efforts and methods I could have controlled her to get a good outcome. Think about that and tell me if you really believe that.

Edit to add: I also have exactly zero regrets for approaching things the way I have. I tried, I gave this the best shot I could, I offered grace and forgiveness. Her responses to that are entirely on her. I have absolutely no thoughts of regret that I could have been different and controlled her. So I have that going for me, which is nice.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:20 PM, Friday, June 16th]

Good Grief. SI has a reputation for being too Pro-R, and I think the last several posts on here make me think this is apt.

The core problem is that WW even went so far as to put InkHulk's *daughter* at risk from Creepy-As-Fuck AP, and continued to lie about it! Her sense of entitlement thinking of herself in the D, after about a full year at this point, is revolting. She is even seeing an IC who, apparently, is actually encouraging this type of selfishness from WW! This is (according to his posts) all just a bridge too far for InkHulk, protective Papa-Bear that he is, who is also growing in his own self-respect. And yet after all this, some of you are ***still*** pushing for InkHulk to "throw a hail-Mary for R", thinking that posting in the Wayward Forum will somehow get WW to wake up! How silly and naive!

I hate to break it to some of you, but there are plenty of "drive-by" Waywards who post once or twice at SI and then leave. It's not the panacea some of you seem to think this will be.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:25 PM, Friday, June 16th]

That’s not what I’m saying. You yourself mentioned in an earlier post that you now believe that your methodology was not appropriate to deal with the R process. It would take some time but I could pull up that statement from you.

The methodology that does work is the type which is generally prescribed here, on SI.

Creepy-As-Fuck OP

Whatchacallme?

Sorry bout that InkHulk! I meant Other Person by OP. I edited!

That’s not what I’m saying. You yourself mentioned in an earlier post that you now believe that your methodology was not appropriate to deal with the R process. It would take some time but I could pull up that statement from you.

I think the closest thing I can think of was my "I’m depressed as hell and posting this to distract myself" thread saying that the advice to let go of what you want is true and unhelpful. But if there is something else I said relevant I’d be curious what you’d cite. I still think I did what I did and it was the only way to be true to myself. That I could not have authentically been more of a hardass and bluffed with my life on the line. Maybe the hardassery is needed, but I’m pretty sure if it isn’t 100% authentic from the depths of the soul of the betrayed, it would just look weak and pathetic to the wayward. It’s taken these events to get me to hardass with her. And now it’s not a tool to save the marriage, it’s a defense mechanism for myself. For the marriage to have survived, I needed her to respond to kindness, and she didn’t.

Good to hear from you Ink. Glad your daughter is doing well. Please do not apologize for a lack of drama (or a lot of drama).

I’m sorry she’s continuing to prioritize her pride over your wellbeing. I’m sorry she continues to put her ego over your marriage and your family. I am really sorry that she is still lying to you. You are a good man and you really do deserve better. I’m not sure you were ready to hear it when some of us earlier in this thread when a few of us said that what she’s doing now and what she does next (rather than what happened in the past) is the biggest determinant of whether R is possible, but she appears to be proving this.

Reading your posts here, after promising not to do so was another obvious breach of trust. I mean, part of me gets it – I think if my marriage was on the line, I’d have a tough time not reading myself but that said, if I were to read here I would ONLY be doing so because I’d be so desperate for any possible insight and roadmap on what I could possibly do to save my marriage. Unfortunately, her practice seems to be to prioritize self-preservation over marriage preservation.

she just took away the advice from CT and Emergent and Bigger that lying is expected behavior and I therefore should have just calmed the hell down

I actually had to go back through my comments on this thread as well as the comments of CT and Bigger to try to find where any of us said this. That this would be anyone’s takeaway from anything any of us said (specifically Bigger!), is almost laughable to me. Of course continued lying by a group of people who have proven themselves to be liars, is common. Just because something is common, does not mean it is acceptable. Littering is common, tax evasion is common, rape is common. Common does not mean it is acceptable.

That said, Mrs. Hulk, if I have any credibility AT ALL with you based on my capacity for nuance or your interpretation of my words, please please please go back and read them again. If you really wanted to build a new, wonderful marriage with your husband, I absolutely think its possible (and I am living, breathing proof of the same). My husband cheated on me and lied about it afterwards and 6 years later we are very happily married and infidelity plays virtually no role in our day to day lives, IT IS WHAT YOU DO NEXT THAT MATTERS THE MOST. That said, the opposite of love is not hate or anger, it is indifference. Your husband is becoming indifferent to you - he is detaching. That should be far more concerning to you than his anger. YOU are the only one who can turn this around and the longer you continue to do what you're doing, the less likely it is that he'll stick around to see you do it.

It’s funny, that for all my wayward apologetics and you guys giving me all kinds of calming advice helping me to sustain in R, she reads this and concludes that SI has brainwashed me against her. It’s almost comical. It’s not really that I am upset that she knows my thoughts, I think if she read my entire transcript over the last year that she would see how damn hard I was trying to make this work.

I can’t decide if I’m in the brainwasher group or the Wayward apologist group , but let’s be honest, no one, and I mean NO ONE has been a bigger SheHulk apologist than you. It wasn’t all that long ago that you were tying yourself into absolute knots trying to figure a way to view your wife as a victim in all of this. I don’t say this disparagingly. I cannot imagine having read your posts over the last year and seeing anything other than a man who deeply loves his wife and his family, and a man who has an incredible capacity for forgiveness. Who, despite having been deeply and grievously hurt, was willing to exercise incredible patience, kindness, and good faith, while waiting for his deeply imperfect (but deeply cherished) wife to figure out how to get out of her own way and put her marriage before her ego. InkHulk, I’m glad you do not have regrets about how you’ve handled yourself through this. You can hold your head high knowing that you have done everything you reasonably could to save your marriage.

It wont surprise anyone to know that I absolutely believe R is possible under the right circumstances. It obviously takes two people to do it properly. Certainly not everyone is cut out for it. Inkhulk, I think you have what it takes. I really hoped, for your sake, she would get to a point where she could be that person for you, too.

SheHulk

Hard to believe no one has coined this moniker yet, but credit goes to Emergent. Thank you for the kind words, friend.

@won'tbefooled..

First, I agree this site is very much pro R. I won't defend that..because I know a few will swoop in and tell me my opinion is wrong,sight examples, etc. I could do that,but I don't feel I need to. It's quite obvious.

I don't think he should try to continue R. I agree about the horrible shit she did with OM and the daughter. That would be the end for me. But,this isn't my marriage.

IH has a history of tolerating things he should never tolerate when it comes to his wife. He has been attempting to forgive what most would say was unforgivable. He has shown way too much patience, and, frankly, kindness. He has also made excuses for her horrible treatment of him,since dday,and soldiered on.

He has been on the edge of being done more than once. And,honestly, I think he's still on that edge. It wouldn't surprise anyone if he chalked this shit up,as more of her fucked upness, and says if she continues to try,so will he.

My "naive and silly " Hail Mary suggestion that he have her post here, was said because I don't believe he's really done. However, having her come here,and the way she responds to people trying to help her might just solidify it for him. Maybe he needs to read, with his eyes, how unwilling she is to truly change.

I suggested it for her, because she needs someone to hold her accountable, and guide her, and that shouldn't be her BH at this point.

Do I think she will change her perspective, and accept that help? No.

I also suggested it because I believe she will show him,through her posts,that she will never get it. She will never be R material.

I believe he needs to be done. For his sake,and the kids. He's been through enough.

Again..I'm right there with you,in believing this site is majorly slanted towards R. Not every marriage should be saved,or can be.

Well, that was the most transparent attempt at reverse psychology that I’ve ever seen in my life. Hellfire, you need to work on your brainwashing skills.

Good Grief. SI has a reputation for being too Pro-R, and I think the last several posts on here make me think this is apt.

First, I agree this site is very much pro R. I won't defend that..because I know a few will swoop in and tell me my opinion is wrong,sight examples, etc. I could do that,but I don't feel I need to. It's quite obvious

I’m always a little perplexed as to why a reputation for "pro R" is slung like an insult. This sit was built from the reconciliation of a couple wanting to provide a safe place for both betrayed and wayward spouses to survive infidelity. Surviving is the key word and that can mean a variety of outcomes and paths to get there.

I would say this site is more person focused. When new members come here it can be obvious what they hope the outcome of their situation to be. For some, it’s clear that infidelity is a dealbreaker right away. For others, they come here with the hopes to reconcile. Still, some paths are unclear until the thread is unraveled.

I have never personally seen, in the almost 13 years I have been here, anyone say that divorce is not appropriate for the situation. Divorce is always an appropriate response. Not every person that comes here wants that outcome. Not everyone wants that outcome despite the fact that it is the appropriate outcome.

The SI community is an amazing group of people with vast experiences. I think it is special that we can each bring our own experiences and help guide those that come behind us. It is important to have those that believe divorce is the only way and it is important to have those that can provide hope that reconciliation is possible. It is important to have everyone in between.

The fact of the matter is that some people come here with the hopes to reconcile. It is also fact that reconciliation is possible and it is very much a fact that not all marriages should.

Everyone has their own journey to discover what outcome will work best for them. It is our job as members to provide respect and advice as their individual stories unfold. We don’t always get there via a direct route.

I think it’s easy to say this site is pro R for those people that haven’t experienced it. When you disagree with someone, they tend to be more memorable than those you do agree with. Just like those that preach D is the only way may have a louder voice to those that have reconciled. It is all about the perspective you are coming from.

I think in the end if we respect each other and show kindness to those in pain, we can hopefully stop making camps and just help people get through a horrifically painful time of their life.

why a reputation for "pro R" is slung like an insult

Not an insult at all. Just my opinion, in agreement with wontbefooledagain,based on what I've seen.

I also said..many times in this thread,alone, that SI is an invaluable resource. I stand by that.

I promise I don’t disagree with you just for the sake of it. I reserve that only for WBFA, it’s this special thing we have. But by you saying the above, you are implying that if only I had done things just the right way that by my efforts and methods I could have controlled her to get a good outcome. Think about that and tell me if you really believe that.

Edit to add: I also have exactly zero regrets for approaching things the way I have. I tried, I gave this the best shot I could, I offered grace and forgiveness. Her responses to that are entirely on her. I have absolutely no thoughts of regret that I could have been different and controlled her. So I have that going for me, which is nice.

I'm one who believes that R isn't the job of the BS. The job of the BS is to get out of infidelity and heal. A horrible traumatic abusive thing has been done to the BS. My thought is that the person who did it is the only one responsible for making R even seem like a sane option, because their actions have shown that the marriage isn't at all a sane or healthy option.

However you behaved, however you handled it, you were a man acting out of pain and trauma. It wasn't your job to handle it "correctly". Almost none of us are at our best and most clear-headed for quite a while after the initial shock has passed. Very few of us wouldn't go back and change something about our reactions.

None of this was ever on you.

** Posting as a human being **

I agree this site is very much pro R. I won't defend that..because I know a few will swoop in and tell me my opinion is wrong,sight examples, etc. I could do that,but I don't feel I need to.

Actually, I think you have placed yourself under an obligation to cite examples of SI's being 'very much pro R.'

If we were 'very much pro R', I would expect to see many posts recommending R at all costs. I don't see that.

I see lots of posts that state D is always the way to go. I see a number of posters - I'm one of them - who say R is possible despite the posts telling new BSes to D. I see posts by folks helping other members R because the other members seek counsel on best ways to R. I see members who have R'ed tell other members that the probability of R looks low for them. I personally have written that R is a bout the future, and I certainly see R is possible in sitches the 'burn the M' folks don't.

But I don't see anyone pushing R at all times.

R is often possible. Stating that is not being 'pro R'. It simply states a fact.

If you want to argue some of of are too pro R, cite posts.

But don't cite this one or WOEz's. If you think these are pro R, you've got blinders on.

Don't cite InkHulk's, either. He's a critical thinker, and he rejects the 'Burn The M' approach. Rejecting that one approach is far from forcing oneself into seeing R as the only other choice.

I’ll come into this discussion to legitimize it against any tj concerns. Two thoughts:

1. Being more Pro-R almost certainly needs to be compared to something. I’ve seen one other popular forum that does seem to lean far harder to D from when I’ve perused it, but it seems much less serious (for lack of a better word) to me. I don’t know, is it really helpful to debate amongst ourselves of where we sit on a relatively arbitrary continuum? I do agree with WOES and Sisoon that I have never seen anyone counseled that R really needs to be pursued, while that is definitely argued for D. And I bet we’d all agree that is appropriate given the subject matter.

2. I’m guessing my threads have self selected fairly pro-R content as that is what I have gravitated to. So if there is recency bias in this discussion, that would explain part of it.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 12:31 AM, Monday, June 19th]

I'm one who believes that R isn't the job of the BS. The job of the BS is to get out of infidelity and heal. A horrible traumatic abusive thing has been done to the BS. My thought is that the person who did it is the only one responsible for making R even seem like a sane option, because their actions have shown that the marriage isn't at all a sane or healthy option.

I can rationally agree with all this. And I also can’t imagine putting myself back at D-Day and not being a highly active participant in the R attempt. That’s a bit of a paradox I might need to chew on.

I’m sitting here laughing to myself: seems like everyone’s last year would have been a lot simpler if my experience on SI would have just been the six posts on LineageGold’s thread.

#hindsightis2020
#2020sucked

[This message edited by InkHulk at 3:11 PM, Monday, June 19th]

I’m two days out from my first anti-versary. Between that and an indepth conversation with a friend that just found out about things that felt like pealing off a scab, I’m feeling pretty sad and anxious. I don’t know how much to expect separation to help my mental state. I have a hard time believing it would relieve everything. What was people’s experience of separating after a long failed R attempt? How did it impact your mood and mental health?