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Completely confused and all over the place

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Nicolijha ( new member #83131) posted at 4:26 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

You sound like such an amazing sweet guy and you don’t deserve this. Perhaps she’s having a midlife crisis but she is being extremely selfish.


posts: 5   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2023   ·   location: CA
id 8784345

 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 4:26 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

I think I already know the answer to this but for the avoidance of doubt (sorry if this question is idiotic but hey, I am in the idiot zone at the moment so let me get through this):

When she says that her escapism with him is a completely different issue to our relationship issues, that is a load of BS in all of your view?

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784346

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:28 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

He doesn't know that you know? That's unbelievable.

What does your wife think about telling his wife? Does she feel she deserves the truth?

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8784347

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:29 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

All affairs are a form of escape. Hers is no different.

Yes,it's bullshit.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8784348

fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 4:56 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023


Very sorry you find yourself here. I hope you are reading the pinned threads and in the healing library.

"One thing I can't decide is if the general tone is that I should try and reconcile after this mess is sorted out or if everyone already thinks this is beyond repair? As I don't think it is beyond repair by any means... I know some might say this is deluded but I genuinely don't."

Ozzy, if your WW should tell you today that she is ending her A and will go no contact with the AP, and she wants to stay in your M. What does that leave you with for an M to recover. She will expect that you will never bring up her A or your pain. After all, you gave your blessing. At some point you will realize that your WW is only committed to your M on a conditional basis. Her vow of fidelity on your wedding day was conditional. She will only be faithful until she meets someone else who pique’s her interest. Moving forward you know that she will cheat again whenever it suits her, and as long as she tells you she is going to cheat, everything will be fine. You will give your blessing. Personally, I could not continue in a M where m W has permission to cheat whenever she feels like it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:00 PM, Monday, March 27th]

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3878   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8784351

Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 5:27 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Ozzy, Good work laying it out for her! You are taking back your agency and now more confident. Keep it up! Yes, we would advocate doing even more but these steps you took sound really solid. You are now showing her more confident man, much less doormat. Keep up the quasi 180 brother!

I do believe these two issues are related as they are both issues within her she needs to sort out. She is taking an abusive, bad approach to work on her restlessness and ennui. Of course they are related.

You are at a very interesting point now. After speaking your mind, if she continues, you realize she will be knowingly digging the blade into you at that point, right?

Her next steps will tell you something about how limerant/emotional she is for him and how much she cares for your feelings. Maintaining 180 type behaviors will emphasize to her how you've changed your mind.

Last, what does she mean by asking him where this will lead? Is she telling you she is considering running off with him permanently? What else could she mean? That she wants a permanent lover and open marriage? That seems like a very hard slap in your face to me. And that's why we are advocating for you to take an even firmer line with her.

Keep working to get yourself out of infidelity!

posts: 943   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8784356

numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 5:27 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

When she says that her escapism with him is a completely different issue to our relationship issues, that is a load of BS in all of your view?

What is her answer if you want to exercise your side of the open relationship? I think she needs to think about that'answer. If she loves bombs you rhen see it for the manipulation that it is

If you like being emotionally abused than you should stay with the status quo and just stuff your feelings.

Or if you want to smile again I would implement a 180 and contact an attorney to get youself out of this mess. You wife has shown you that acting single is more important that acting M'd.

She is playing a game. The only way to win at this game is not to play.

Yes it will hurt and it wiil be hard, but people treat us how we let them treat us. Your wife is getting her needs metxwhile ignoring yours. I mean isn't it fair that you can seek having your need of a loving mutuallly satisfying and exclusive relationship. That might not be your current wife, but there is someone out there that will treat you with more respect than your W does.

My .02 is that you should adovocate for your side of the open M and also see'an attorney.

At a minimum I think you seeing an IC to see why you value yourself less than you should in this relationship. A good book for you to read would be "no more mr. nice guy." You need to stand up and advocate for yourself.

180 like today as well.

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5116   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8784357

yellowledbetter ( member #70518) posted at 5:30 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

So, let’s get real. Why are you here? To get out of infidelity? Or to have us candy coat your shitty situation and give you our blessings for being ‘decent enough’ to be cool with your wife screwing someone else’s husband?

You might even have more poor excuses than your wife does. An ounce of self respect might be a good start, for both of you. Your kids might also appreciate that.

Seriously. What is it you’re seeking by coming here? I’m sincerely curious.

Me: BW 52, WH 55, LTA, AP 20 yrs younger. Married 33 yrs, together for 36
3 adult children
DDay Dec19/2018
Attempting Reconciliation….still.

~where there is deep grief, there was great love.

posts: 143   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2019   ·   location: Canada
id 8784359

BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:31 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

She has flat-out told you that she's bored having sex with you and is stepping out to shag another man.

If that's not a relationship issue, then tell me what is.


He doesn't know that you know? That's unbelievable.

At least Ozzy can take comfort in knowing that he isn't the only man his wife lies to.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:33 PM, Monday, March 27th]

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 1899   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8784360

numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 6:00 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Sorry I posted before your last response. . .

I would stop emotionally supporting your wife. She is loving the attention from two men. She is an ego kibble addict and she will not stop. Of couse she doesn't want anything to change. She has the best of both worlds. Why on earth would she give that up? Your reactions aren't enough because she cares more about her than you or your children (children notice more than you'd think). If she cared a out your family she would stop this today.

"please don't make me stop this yet."

Cheater translation:

"Please be available at my beck and call no matter how cruel I am to you. Go watch the kids so I can go meet OM. Don't wait up."

Again, my guess the pass is only for her and even the suggestion wiil set her off. She wants what she wants, but expects you to take it without protest.

So, likely, if you had not given your blessing she would have done it anyway. Her "open marriage," timing was suspicious and horribly unfair to you.

I think if you cut off being loving with her it would show her how things really are versus how she wants them to be. Stop meeting her emotional needs. She clearly has stopped meeting yours. No one ever niced a WW back into the M. Trust me many BH have tried that and paid dearly for it.

Before you say you don't want to rock the boat... I think just letting your feelings out versus pretending you are OK is what your plan should be for this weekend. If you really feel that way why are you trying to hide it? Why do you have to hide in your Marriage?

Your wife needs IC in the worst way. This isn't going away on it's own and wether you stay M'd or not this sets a terrible example for your kids.

I am really sorry, but I think you have very few options on what you can do next. Even if she agrees to close the M now how can you ever feel safe again with different sets of rules for her versus yourself?

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 7:17 PM, Monday, March 27th]

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

posts: 5116   ·   registered: May. 17th, 2010
id 8784366

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:16 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

You do realize the next time she needs an escape,there will be other affairs. You've given your permission with this one,she will expect it every time in the future.

You will always have a WS,whether she is actively cheating,or not. There will be no healing for you,because she won't want to hear your pain. She will expect you to deal with it without her help.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6632   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8784369

SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 6:46 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Yellowledbetter you have a PM.

posts: 10033   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8784379
default ( member #22922) posted at 6:51 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Hi Ozzy,

I don't post often, but something about how you are seeing all this has affected me.

A lot has been said, but I would like to say a word about the kids...

As the child of a parent who cheated, and the mother of children who were caught in the crossfire of infidelity, please know that your children ARE being harmed by your wife's choices. Destabilizing a partner by dating someone else harms children. This is just fact. We all think our case is exceptional, our cheating partner is not like everyone else, but your wife is choosing her whims, her needs, over the stability of her kids.

Protect your children. Your wife is 100% telling you that her need for attention, to explore, is more important than your family, including the kids. She definitely doesn't give a care about OMs kids, if he has any. I just don't get this mindset.

I wish that you would tell her that she is welcome to date, but not while she's married to you. And then file for divorce. I told this to my ex after affair #1, and we reconciled. I even said it to him after affair #2, but I just couldn't do it. All to say, telling them they are welcome to go, and that you are ready to divorce, puts some real cold water on the passion.

Her actions following this would reveal a lot about her, and her commitment to you and your family.

Good luck. None of this is easy.

Me: BW Him: WH D-Day 1: February 2009 D-Day 2: April 2018 Divorced!

posts: 1049   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2009
id 8784381

Confused282 ( member #79680) posted at 7:03 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Her "escapism" is not a separate issue.

It’s the heart of the matter.

You know there are some professionals opinions that nobody is truly capable of loving 2 people.

There are several that say it’s even more so in women.

When she first starting interacting with him she checked out of your marriage.

Her emotions and energy are now transferred to him.

She is not working on your marriage while in a relationship with him or anybody else.

She is just using you for child raising and finances.

If it wasn’t for kids she would probably just leave you.

I hope you get what you want but I think you deserve better.

Once again if you refuse to stand up for your self at least move forward with the intention of dating and finding someone new.

Also going forward treat your finances like you will be separated in the future.

Because you very likely will be.

I’m so sorry.

Oh and I’m serious about Ester Perel. She says a lot of true things. That’s why people are drawn to her.

There is a lot of advice she gives that I would give to others.

A little stupid but mating in captivity is not that bad it’s state of affairs where the biggest bullshit.

She’s treating relationships like college theoretical experiments.

Like when she talks about polyamory.

Monogamy has so many rules and restrictions it’s suffocating.

But polyamory is not about sex it’s about more relationships and has even more rules and restrictions.

They fail at much higher rates than Monogamous relationships.

But we should move in that direction and do more of them.


posts: 169   ·   registered: Dec. 16th, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8784384

straightup ( member #78778) posted at 8:19 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023


I agree with you about the kids. 40 years after my father first cheated, and 7 years after his death, there are still six mildly emotionally damaged kids of two broken marriages.

Certainly not a day goes by there isn’t some small wince of pain, when it comes to me.

My Dad was projecting lots of criticism at my Mum before D day, causing her a lot of distress. Then he drank, then she drank. Then divorce. Then my Dad married AP. Then OBS, to save himself crushing depression and constant reminders, picked up and moved to the UK where he married another women who already had two teenage daughters (who are now treated as his real kids, better than his bio kids). Both OBS were damaged enough that they didn’t parent the way they might have when we were teenagers. We were faux affluent but neglected.

To simply get by we needed to swallow a lot of selfish crap, then consciously separate ourselves from those crap life lessons in our own adult lives. You do that best by distancing yourself from your dysfunctional parents.

Once you start down the selfish path even sincere but inconsistent attempts at good parenting will be met with disappointment and resentment, or that’s the experience of us 6.

I compare the experience to being a refugee from a war. I compare it to missing a turn, my life’s work has been about taking the hit and not passing it on to my kids.

And it was all self inflicted.

Raising my own kids I still have flashes of anger. All six of the betrayed children have just grabbed on to their first partners and worked hard. None of us want unconventional romantic lives, which just seem like disruption and pain to us.

Ozzy, Your current approach, which seems sneaky to me all round, isn’t the best way to attempt that improbable thing we call reconciliation.

In the context of peri menopause my wife basically let it be known that she had started to explore the other side of her bisexuality, that she wanted less sex with me, and wanted lots of free time, to not work. and to spend impulsively. She remained pretty good with the kids. She told me that she told me she was bisexual before we started living together, which is true, but also, she has only really told me about a few prior sexual partners. And the only one with a female was a threesome with her second boyfriend.

I said that I have no problem with her finding others, male and female, attractive but this is an exclusive monogamous, committed, heterosexual relationship with an expectation by me of a commitment for life. If she wants something different then she is fooling me because I would not and will not commit to the relationship the same way. I won’t be doing things like wholly supporting us financially or renovating our home or saving for a shared retirement. I will raise our kids to the best of my ability however. If she wants a different relationship then she needs to state it and I will decide what to do. I would much prefer my relationship to be with her, because she is the mother of my kids, and because she is her. But if I decide to see someone else it will not be just sex, I expect I would meet someone and my heart will follow.

We had 6 months of mutual insomnia and reconciled amidst mutual pain. She started doing things which showed me she didn’t want to take off anymore, like working in our garden. Our communication still isn’t great but at least weekly I catch her looking at me in a way which seems like love to me. That will do if we keep trying.

[This message edited by straightup at 9:19 PM, Monday, March 27th]

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.
What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.
Mother Teresa

posts: 343   ·   registered: May. 11th, 2021   ·   location: Australia
id 8784393

Abalone123 ( member #82896) posted at 8:30 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

Ozzy, Her escapism stems from underlying issues she perceives in your marriage. How can they not be connected? Mature people work on issues , only weak people resort to escapism of the most dangerous kind like drugs and sex.

posts: 281   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2023
id 8784396

VezfromTaz ( member #80815) posted at 9:02 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

I havent read this whole thread but the bit I did your wife sounds a bit of a narc ~ eg her behaviour is so exceptionally different and superior to anyone else that behaves like her, and has complex layers of meaning beyond the grasp of the common man. She hasnt said that, I just get that vibe. And I also get the feeling you've been coopted into that narrative that theres something different about this behaviour that therefore makes it ok.

Your wife is selfish and theres nothing special about what she is doing. Perhaps if you look at other aspects of her behaviour since you met you will start to see a pattern emerge. The worst thing about denial is when something happens and you cannot lie to yourself any more about who someone is. Especially if you have kids together.

All the best with your journey.

posts: 136   ·   registered: Sep. 1st, 2022
id 8784409

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 9:34 PM on Monday, March 27th, 2023

There is an old joke, but it’s pretty on target when it comes to dealing with people who cheat. "Who are you going to believe, me, or your lying eyes?" The conversations you’ve had with your wife remind me of that saying because the man is using her for sex and she knows it and somehow that’s OK with you. This is an Alice in the wonderland kind of conversation as up is down and down as up.

I came here out of curiosity and realized that I had the ability to share marriage advice. Mine never went on the rocks, because my husband did not know that I knew he had cheated. And several years later, when I blindsided him with a question and he could not think fast enough, he told me he did. By then, we had moved way past it and to bring it up and talk about it would have gotten us nowhere. It wasn’t an affair. It was cheating on the road. I have no idea if it was one woman or 20 and I don’t want to know…it’s way back there in the back of my memory so I come here only because I want people who have a genuinely remorseful WS to think about reconciliation.

So far from what you have written, I don’t see a remorseful WS because she’s going to keep cheating. What I see is someone who is entitled. Don’t know your age, but that seems to be a major new thing with some generations these days. Nobody has ever told them no and they don’t want to be told no.

Believe it, or not, your story is not that uncommon. You are married, your wife is cheating, she’s not stopping, and you don’t know what to do about it. It could be you cheating and her wondering what to do. These stories play out pretty often on here. The advice is always the same. The only way to get out of infidelity is to do something. Either make sure to reconcile and she does it wholeheartedly or you leave. Otherwise you’re living with cheating every day.

The couple that started this forum had a WS who was the wife. It took her a while to let go of the fantasy but when she did, she came into recovery wholeheartedly so between she and her husband they started something that has saved many heart broken folks. It can happen. You have to have a remorseful cheater, and it may take a while, but you have to protect yourself because you don’t want to pay the price down the road physically.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 10:35 PM, Monday, March 27th]

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8784430

 Ozzy1788 (original poster member #83108) posted at 8:46 AM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

So, let’s get real. Why are you here? To get out of infidelity? Or to have us candy coat your shitty situation and give you our blessings for being ‘decent enough’ to be cool with your wife screwing someone else’s husband?

You might even have more poor excuses than your wife does. An ounce of self respect might be a good start, for both of you. Your kids might also appreciate that.

Seriously. What is it you’re seeking by coming here? I’m sincerely curious.

I'm here as I was looking for somewhere to unpack the absolute mess my brain has been for 2 months. My brain is much clearer since coming here so sincere thanks to most posters. Ones like yours don't help and I'm assuming that's why admin got in touch. This is the worst period of my life so all positive thoughts are welcome.

Last night I didn't plan to, but I said I need this to stop. It didn't go well. The implications of that are so severe that I'm too upset to say more today 😢

posts: 168   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: UK
id 8784501

Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:33 PM on Tuesday, March 28th, 2023

Sorry to hear that. At this point, after what I am guessing was her reaction, it's clear to you that you are indeed mired in infidelity. There are a lot of great people and resources here to help you. The 180 process is essential. You can modify it to suit you but it is tried and true.

Check the library section and the sticky thread in this jfo part of the forum. Strongly consider exposing her affair to people who care about the marriage, like her family.

Let us know what she said when you can so people can help you specifically. She may well come around and realize the damage she is causing. Many WS take a while before that happens. Either way, you can build a plan to get out of infidelity.

posts: 943   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8784508
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