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Mr F. Has your WW IC discussed the fact that she doesn’t really have any friends? Have you actually thought about this snd discussed it with her? What is it about your WW personality that relates to the fact that she doesn’t have friends? Why are your friends snd mutual friends siding more with you, and that three of your friends have cut her out completely? What I’m getting at is that Affair aside, it seems as if people don’t like your WW very much as a person? Is this the case?

Assuming this is the case (and based on your response it sounds like it is), has your WW developed poor boundaries with men as a result of feeding her ego, related to the fact that she essentially has no close personal relationships with women, or anyone else for that matter? Is all of this intertwined with why she had her affair? Is it possible that your WW could cheat again in the future because of all the above?

All of this stuff I would expect would be covered in your wife’s IC. Are you aware if it is?

I have followed your thread since day 1 on another site and thought your approach of taking your time to make a decision was absolutely the right one. I was also hopeful for a reconciliation.

Having been away from your posts for a while, I am not sure anything has really changed and it appears to me that you are drifting into reconciliation through inaction, a route that your wife is certainly not going to disrupt because she gets what she wants but I am not sure you want.

You say you are not unhappy. I am afraid I would question that. Her lying and the TT have cut very deep and I don’t think you will never get over that, not unreasonably. The trust has gone completely, also not unreasonably, and you still see the same traits in her even after prolonged IC that mean you think she is capable of cheating again. The old emotional blackmail, breaking down in tears, “oh I am so sorry, please never leave me” routine is still there as well. This means, for the rest of your life, you will always be wondering. You also talk about sacrificing your happiness for the happiness of your children.

How is she showing ongoing remorse here, apart from the ongoing weeping and gnashing of teeth? Is it enough for you to overcome the barriers above?

Do you ever wonder if there is someone else out there who will provide the happiness, unconditional love and respect that you deserve? If you stay, are you going to look back in 30 years time and say that was a waste of a life?

I am not advocating divorce or reconciliation, only you can come to that decision. However, what I am saying is I think you need to shake yourself out of this rut because, from where I am sitting, you seem to be existing rather than living. If you want to stay, that would be great, but do it for the right reasons, not because of inertia.

Two or three of my friends (the ones that try to set me up with anybody they can think of) made it very clear they have no intentions to ever speak to her again.

And if you choose to reconcile? How will they handle that? I know your friends mean well and are trying to support you, but they might want to think about asking you what kind of support you need. i.e. if you decided on R, I don't think you would want them disrespecting your wife. Yes, she failed and has issues, but if you can accept her apology and efforts to R, they should respect YOU and your decisions. Just something to consider.

Dude67 I believe It had been discussed during our first two sessions when our IC was trying to get to know us and our story. But nothing excessive, we just got into what type of person we are and if I recall correctly there was a question about our friends but I don't think we lingered on it much. And it's not like she doesn't have any friends, as I said we have many friends, but on that a bit superficial level if you know what I mean. The only really deep and meaningful relationships/friendship she has are with her sister and well.. me. And I am basically the same - I have one really good friend and her. Because I honestly don't need more and I believe she's the same. That's probably part of why this hurt me so much.

If our friends didn't like my W in the past they managed hiding it pretty well and I hadn't caught on it. She's likeable person, a bit reserved at the beginning, but when she opens up she's a joy to be around. People usually like her.

I was actually surprised how some of our mutual friend stood up to her when this all blew up, especially her girlfriends. There was noone in our friend's group who didn't make it clear they are on my side. But that doesn't mean they all completely cut her off and gave her cold shoulder whenever she was around. Not at all. With the exception of my three friends almost all of them reached out to my W in some way. To talk, to listen and to berate her, too.

As for the reasons for her affair(s) - I am now pretty sure they are just a symptome of way, way deeper troubles. She never told me, but I have reasons to believe her childhood and teenage years were not as great as she originally told me. As I said before, she was not in it for sex, love or excitement. She did it for validation, something she felt was lacking. But I am getting off the track now and going a way I don't want to go now since I am still trying to wrap my head around it and don't fully understand it myself, at least not yet.

Is it possible she would cheat again? With all sincerity? Yes, I believe it is.

Do I think she will cheat again? No.

Do I want to take my chances? Probably not.

That's something I need to find an reasonable answer for, the sooner the better. All of this is regulary being talked about in her IC. She doesn't tell me everything (obviously, and honestly I am glad she doesn't), but I know enough thanks to her short rundown she gives me every week.

Having been away from your posts for a while, I am not sure anything has really changed and it appears to me that you are drifting into reconciliation through inaction, a route that your wife is certainly not going to disrupt because she gets what she wants but I am not sure you want.

That's absolutely what is hapenning right now. But I have to disagree on that last part. We actually talked about it yesterday, and my W asked me if I would be happier if we divorced. She told me she seeing everyday what she did to me kills her. I do not laugh, I do not hum, I do not tease her. I just.. am. And it's good for now, at least that's what I am telling myself. Would I be happier if we divorced? Maybe, maybe not. So I told her I have no idea if I would be happier. I would loose half the time with my kids, that's for sure. I said it before, and I will say it again even though it sound horrible - things would be easier if she would just fuck him, or fell in love with, or crossed any other line that would be an instant deal-breaker. It would probably kill me, but at least there would be a swift resolution - Divorce and move on. And I would be hurt, and angry, and bitter but there would be an end in sight. Now I am all these things and feel all these things, but there is no end in sight. It's limbo, it's surviving, but not living the life as I or her should.

How is she showing ongoing remorse here, apart from the ongoing weeping and gnashing of teeth? Is it enough for you to overcome the barriers above?

It was a long process, but I believe she got from that place where all tears were about how this all affects her and her life to a place of compassion. Her day to day actions are hard to depict, but trust me, they are there. Less weeping and self-pity and more of what I would call remorse. But again, the vase analogy.

Do you ever wonder if there is someone else out there who will provide the happiness, unconditional love and respect that you deserve? If you stay, are you going to look back in 30 years time and say that was a waste of a life?

I do not wonder. There absolutely is. There are many women who would make me happy. Who would respect me and cherish me. Do you know Tim Minchin? Listen to his song If I didn't have you. The answer is there.

That line about wasting time is something my friend told me a few times. But I have to disagree. Even if we got divorced, I don't think I wasted those years. I had a partner by my side who helped me through some difficult times in my life, who gave me a great amount of love, who was there when things were great and when they were often really, really bad. And she gave me 2 amazing kids. And if I will look back in 30 years and wonder what could had been? Who won't wonder in 30 years? There are a few things or decision that I regret to this day. And you know what, It's OK, that's life. That chocolate box and all.

Sorry for this wall of incoherent text, but I wanted to answer at least some of your questions. And I got way too emotional since it's my daughters birthday today (it's 1:40 am around here right now) so excuse my babbling

Have a great day and again, thank you for your insight.

[This message edited by MrFlibble at 6:48 PM, June 3rd (Thursday)]

Your reply was pretty coherent actually.

Without being patronising, I feel very sorry for you. You are damned if you do and you are damned if you don’t.

In your shoes, I really would have no idea what to do so I am very reluctant to give any advice about divorce, reconciliation or maintaining the status quo you currently have.

I can see why things have remained much as they were. There are a number of practical advantages with regard to your children and I think these currently outweigh the negative elements you describe. Time will tell if changes can be made in the future.

You are right, it would have been so much easier if she had crossed one of your red lines!

Looked up the Tim Minchin song and, boy, that is you down to a tee. You should have asked for royalties 😄. Got another song to give back to you though - Landslide, Fleetwood Mac.

As ever, you don’t have to rush into anything and I think you have been both wise and honourable to date. However, you do deserve happiness and a better life than the one you have now, either with or without your wife. Just don’t know how to tell you the way to get it. I could give you some platitudes about dumping her and moving on or putting it all behind you to fully reconcile but it really isn’t that easy is it?

As Marillion say “ on the road to indecision I always take the round about way”

Wishing peace, love and understanding.

PS. Sorry about the slight Marillion misquote

Well, guess who decided to get in touch? I guess some serious ass whooping is in order now. The f.cker has some nerve. I know the right course of action - to ignore it, but I can't help but feel like he got off the hook way too easily. I will let the initial anger subside and see how I feel in a day or two about how to respond

Jacobwakeup Thank you so much for validating or seconding how I feel. I feel like I am losing myself from time to time. No, it is not that easy, because my decision will affect not only my life, but also our daughters childhood. I didn't ask for any of this, I didn't want it and it's not fair to me and especially to our kids. I was served this shit sandwich and now I am expected to deal with it. I can either eat the sandwich or refuse. Both wrong choices in my book.

My friends are yet another issue. I will cross that bridge when I will get there.

Did he reach out to you or your wife?

Don’t do anything stupid. Not that I believe you would, but anything that ends up with him able to press charges will impact your life significantly. Things are chaotic enough for you right now, don’t add that to the mix.

Mr Fibble

I guess the question you might ask yourself is, which what she has done, and regardless of if you someday might build something new in a different form, does she deserve to be called your wife.

And if the answer is No, she no longer deserves that title and role in my life, then the next question would be, can you live with her still being your wife if you cannot bring yourself to divorce. Do you have the need for the ramifications of her cheating to include ending the marriage since she broke her vows.

I am asking this in a “the body keeps score” kind of way. Is your mind, body and soul telling you that you cannot handle swallowing your pride and letting her remain in The marriage then you really have no choice but to D in order to maintain your own health and sanity. You have to listen to what your body and mind and heart are telling you.

There are never guarantees but hopefully if you can get thru that process then your SELF will then find relief that you didn’t simply accept the actions she took that go completely against your own values.

Once that occurs, where you go with her is up to you. Simply remain coparents? Decide to spend time exploring (hopefully within a joint agreement) seeing other people? Time in separation agreeing not to explore who else is out there and working on yourselves? Trying to rebuild a new romantic relationship with each other.

Lots of choices and possibilities. I hope you’ll seriously think about what yiu truly need to move forward. If you think staying in the marriage has value and there is a path there to build new from within, then explore it. But to me, it’s awful hard to allow a cheating wife to simply continue in the same role she had before DDay. I’d somehow need to feel that I’m not being taken advantage of. That if she is going to emotionally wound me so she felt the ramification of playing so callously with my heart.

If you can achieve that within the marriage then mire power to you. If not, then I’d think that ending it is a better path to take.

Woah, the little toe rag got back in touch!

The obvious questions are who did he get n touch with (you or your wife), how, why, what did he say, what was your wife’s reaction?

Why do you have to do anything? Your wife created this mess, why not get her to come up with a solution and actions for dealing with it?

Why has he done this? Is it to start the two of you fighting so that your marriage finally crumbles, a revenge because his marriage crumbled so why should she get away with it?

You are right to take your time and you are right, without knowing the full details, to ignore it. Present a public united front,

Privately, I would not be calm. I would certainly tell my wife that I still do not trust her one inch, that I want every second of her day accounted for and for her to close down all social media, e mail etc immediately. Any hint, or even gut feeling that she had been in contact, then back to square one and she is out of the house without custody.

This is your first real test since she moved back home and she should be/probably is very scared of what happens next, and so she should be.

I am going to take a not so wild guess here that any reaction she has is all about her and she hasn’t, for one moment, considered how it impacts on you. I hope this is not the case and that she has grown emotionally.

You have behaved throughout all of this saga with a great deal of compassion, dignity and integrity. I am 100% sure you will make the right decision here.

I do not plan on doing anything, but I went as far as to contact a friend of a friend who is an attorney to see what I would get for a few solid punches. Fine and some community service seem like a decent trade right now.

He sent her an connection request on Linkedin. His linkedin account was deleted after I got him fired the second time, this one has almost no info but it's definitely him - same initials (like "Peter D") and the message just said "hi W, I just wanted to say sorry for everything. I hope you are well. SH"

tell me about fishing.

Good man!

Do you feel the need to monitor your wife’s reaction and whether she will contact him?

If so, well everything is still a work in progress and I would say quite understandable..

If not, that has surely got to be a huge step forward.

Wishing you well.

Can you get a restraining order for him to stop? Better yet if it goes on his record/credit report.

Just ignore him (no response/block if possible) so he can't follow her or you.

The OM is a POS but the world is full of them.

He won't be the last POS that reaches out to your wife. It's up to her to shut it down.

Your wife's reaction is the important thing here. Did she show you the message or did you monitor it? And what was her comment on this?

Lots going on. How are you mentally?

How are you children doing?

Just keep communicating to each other when possible.

One day at a time

I decided to just block and ignore but it took a lot of effort on my part. I took it all out on a punching bag and I can recommend this approach. I forgot to mention, but my W told me right away, I do not monitor her devices, mainly because she dropped him the moment I busted her. I simply felt no need even though she gave me all her passwords. She had a burner phone, so if she wants/wanted to contact him she would find a way. I refuse to play a marriage police.

Buffer How am I doing? As I said before "not great, not terrible". Kind of going with the flow, but good enough for me for now. But if I am being honest, I am very slowly getting to a point where I believe this will be a deal-breaker. I won't get over it, and I do not plan on living my life not being happy. I just need more time to make sure my choice is not made out of spite or hurt pride, but a genuine want and conscious decisions because it will affect many lives, permanently.

I am getting a bit tired of our evening conversations, and I believe she's too. It's just beating a dead horse now. Nothing productive comes out of it, not anymore. Maybe it's my fault, I was told multiple times she feels like I am slowly checking out and she's panicking and grasping what she can. Maybe too little, too late. But I will give it few months to be sure

Kids are doing good, great actually. The younger is practically unaffected by all this, blisfully unaware if you will. The older one is a bit trickier. She's very clever for her age and iťs obvious she's confused as hell. She fully understands what is hapenning, what divorce is and why do moms and dads divorce. We try to shield her from anything regarding our problems, but she's too bright to be played. It manifests in her behaviour, in family and preschool. Nothing major, but she acting out more than ever before. We are having an appointment with a school psychologist in 2 weeks

I am going on a vacation next week, so until then - thank you all. I have no idea where I would be without your advice and guidance.

Mr Fibble please remind me again (because it has been hard for me to understand what she actually did) - did she have sex with him of any kind (oral, hand job, PIV etc)?

If not, what was the dealbreaker for you to make you want to divorce?

No sex acts other than kissing and groping. I would eventually get over this, at least I think I would.

But her lies, whole bunch of them both small and huge. No matter what her intentions were with it, she lied through her teeth while looking me in my eyes swearing on our children. I simply came to a realization I do not want a life partner who can betray me and then lie right to my face without blinking.

I know it's not fair to either of us to end it after all the progress we have made in past few months, but man.. sometimes it's a bit too much

Did she lie like that (swearing on her children) all the while continuing the affair/going back for more attention from him?

@MrFlibble,

I have a slightly different and likely less popular take on how this unfolded. I don't think it's a novel take as this was talked about a lot when the most recent DDay happened, but I'll share regardless.

It seems to be a fact that your threshold for what is considered to be a deal breaker is quite a bit lower than most BS. It also seems to be a fact that your WS knows you extremely well and knew exactly where this line was even as she was being the worst version of herself.

With these ideas in mind, I believe two things:

1. If she had given you 100% of the truth right away on DDay, she would never have made it even this far. You would've ended it immediately and most likely never looked back.

2. The most recent DDay, by your own admission, did not contain any details that were beyond the line of being a deal breaker. Also, by your own admission, there was no real reason for her to tell you as you would've never found this information on your own. To me, this means her most recent admission was your WS's best attempt at true R and this would be the first real indication that she is making positive changes to herself and can be a safe partner in the future.

There is a lot of talk on SI about a WS finally getting it. This most recent DDay feels like the only time this was true for your WS.

Obviously, there are far more considerations and it will come down to the size of the shit sandwich you are willing to eat for all affected. I wish you all the best.

[This message edited by Lurkster at 9:26 PM, June 13th (Sunday)]