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Newest Member: Papi

Divorce/Separation :
I am divorced!

Topic is Sleeping.
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 9:05 PM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

The appellate court posted their results yesterday. I lost on pretty much every issue... although I don't understand their logic.

I have not heard from my attorney yet, which is my major concern.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 5:27 PM, Friday, March 18th]

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8723408
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 9:33 PM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

Well damn, Barcher. I have no words. Hang in there…

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 4893   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8723416
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 10:52 PM on Tuesday, March 15th, 2022

Legal system is a crap shoot. My ex's firm was the state's insurance company's counsel that they used for legal issues. Let's just say they were kept busy by shit that the Judges should have known better just from graduating law school. Never the less being a serving judge.

posts: 1265   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8723434
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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 2:47 AM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

I was so hoping for a good outcome for you. Grrrr.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 1255   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8723474
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 1:59 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

Well damn, Barcher. I have no words. Hang in there…

Although I am frustrated with the legal system (because I think the appellate court got it wrong), I am fine with the final result.

The last year has been tough on me financially because... I had the wrong tax withholdings at my job. I figured this out when I did my taxes and I got very large tax returns. I fixed the issue with my withholdings and I am now doing okay financially (I am not saving money... but nor am I sinking into debt more and more each month). If I had won and gotten reduced child support payments, I had already decided that I would take the extra money and give it to my kids anyway (in their savings account -- not directly to them).

My bigger concern, now, is that I still haven't heard from my attorney. This is not like her at all. She is usually very good at communicating with me.

I have two concerns... first, she is the one who pushed me to file this appeal in the first place. She literally called it "the strongest case for appeal in her 25 years of being a lawyer." She also claimed that the appellate mediator had told her "I don't see how opposing counsel expects to prevail." At mediation, my attorney basically told me that I should not offer my ex any money to settle because our case was air-tight. And finally, she had said "if they follow the law, then you win" after oral arguments. In addition, my ex filed an affidavit asking that I be required to cover her legal fees. So, I potentially have an additional $8000 bill waiting for me.

My guess (only a guess) is that my attorney is trying to figure some things out on her end before talking to me about this ruling. That worries me.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8723540
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 3:57 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

My guess (only a guess) is that my attorney is trying to figure some things out on her end before talking to me about this ruling.

Yes. If she and the mediator were as sure as it seemed, she's looking for answers. Not sure that much can come from it.

posts: 1265   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8723559
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Jeaniegirl ( member #6370) posted at 9:45 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

Or - if there is a way, she may be looking for a way to appeal. Either way, she should contact you and not leave you in the dark.

"Because I deserve better"

posts: 3244   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2005
id 8723634
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DragnHeart ( member #32122) posted at 9:50 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

So sorry to hear this result. I was rooting for you so much.

What the hell is with the system....

Fist bumps.

Me: BS 46 WH: 37 (BrokenHeart911)Four little dragons. Met 2006. Married 2008. Dday of LTPA with co worker October 19th 2010. Knew about EA with ow1 before that. Now up to PA #5. Serial fucking Cheater.

posts: 24545   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2011   ·   location: Canada
id 8723637
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 11:55 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

So sorry to hear this result. I was rooting for you so much.

Thank you. It's greatly appreciated.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8723659
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 11:57 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

I heard from my attorney today, finally. She was just busy.

She claims that she has heard from other family law attorneys who read the appellate court's ruling and they were just flabbergasted by the decision. That kind of sounds like BS (i.e., the story), but I have no past history of my attorney telling me anything other than the full truth.

Anyway, we're now moving onto Plan B (which was Plan B a year ago), which is request that the court eliminate alimony because my ex is living with her boyfriend.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8723660
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 9:32 PM on Thursday, March 17th, 2022

I can understand your attorney's bewilderment. I am a retired attorney. Many years ago, I handled a case where the trial judge made an extremely illogical ruling. I thought I had a slam dunk winner. I handled the first level of appeal. It was summarily rejected. I referred the matter to our appellate department who promptly filed it in the Court of Appeal. Again, the issue was summarily rejected. I honestly believed no one bothered to read our appeals. The matter was then filed in the state Supreme Court. This is something we almost never did. Finally, justice.

You may wish to discuss with your attorney whether it might be worth pursuing the appeal further. On the other hand, it may be moot if you have a good chance of prevailing over child support given present circumstances. Follow your attorney's advice.

[This message edited by src9043 at 9:34 PM, Thursday, March 17th]

posts: 655   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8723820
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 6:17 PM on Friday, March 18th, 2022

Again, the issue was summarily rejected. I honestly believed no one bothered to read our appeals.

My attorney had a similar but opposite comment. In reading the court's decision, she concluded that they fully understood our arguments but then they rejected them.

The matter was then filed in the state Supreme Court. This is something we almost never did. Finally, justice.

My girlfriend is of the opinion that I have a case worth appealing to the Supreme Court. I agree that I have a case that merits appealing to the Supreme Court as far as the greater legal issue (more below) but it's not worth it financially (i.e., I am not paying enough in alimony to justify me paying all of those legal costs) or personally (i.e., I need to just move on with my life, win or lose).

The legal issue is that my State has very weird laws/statutes as far as how alimony is decided. It's very much left up to the judge's discretion.

Nonetheless, there are clear statutes that alimony can only be awarded if the obligor can afford to pay alimony and the obligee has a financial need. To resolve these issues, people getting divorced negotiate over their "reasonable budget" and their incomes.

The issue where I think that we have a real case for the Supreme Court is how reasonable budgets and incomes are computed. The law (i.e., actual statutes) in my State says very clearly that child support should count as part of the obligee's income. Our appellate case was, therefore, super simple. If you look at my ex's budget (as set by the district) court, she could easily afford it after you considered her actual income plus child support.

HOWEVER, relatively recently, the appellate court made a precedent-setting ruling saying that expenses explicitly used for children (for example, daycare) should not be included in the budget so that they are not double-counted. The judge, therefore, removed several of the expenses that my ex-wife claimed as part of her budget. The appellate court ruled that because the judge removed these items from her budget, then the State's statute that includes child support as income should not be applied (i.e., saying that her total income = actual income + child support).

From a legal perspective, in my opinion, the problem with this approach is that it's almost impossible to properly determine someone's budget while excluding the children. For example, the judge ruled that my ex-wife's grocery budget was $800 per month, which included her and our three kids. He did not reduce this amount to $250 per month (or whatever).

So... the problem is that the current way of determining "can this person meet their reasonable budget?" is muddled and partially involving one system of rules and partially using another system of rules. To me (a non-lawyer), this is precisely the type of thing that should go to a Supreme Court (i.e., weird ambiguities in the law).

But, I don't want to pay for all of those legal fees... and I doubt my attorney wants to do it pro bono.

Follow your attorney's advice.

Absolutely. This actually goes back to my need to just move on with my life. I was not especially involved in the appeal and I don't plan on being deeply involved in the next legal steps. I sent my attorney an email a couple of days ago with all of the pertinent information and documentation that I had for claiming that she's living with her romantic partner... and she's going to pick and choose what to use versus what to ignore.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 6:18 PM, Friday, March 18th]

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8724124
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katmandude54 ( member #35992) posted at 1:21 AM on Saturday, March 19th, 2022

After reading your story Barcher, did not realize how freaking lucky I was. My XWW didn't do anything when I filed (after 5 years of separation). She didn't answer the subpoena (and got chastized by the judge), didnt hire a lawyer, didnt do anything. Too from Sept. 20 to May 21, and I got what I wanted, the divorce, the kids, no child support, no sharing pension or social security. AND I GOT HER GONE. Cost be like $2,500 total. Here's wishing you luck on appeal.

[This message edited by katmandude54 at 1:21 AM, Saturday, March 19th]

If at first you don't succeed, you're probably screwed.

posts: 166   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2012   ·   location: FLORIDA
id 8724234
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 11:58 PM on Saturday, March 19th, 2022

I'm dumbfounded. (This also makes me frightened for my own case.) I'm so sorry, Barcher. I am happy to read that you are ready to move on with your life and pick your battles. Still keep us updated of what you ultimately decide.

This frustrates me in that what is the point of case law and having things on the books, if judges and appeals courts can pick and choose what rulings they will abide by and what they will not. It makes a mockery of the whole court system. Like the whole thing is just one big kangaroo court and it doesn't mean anything, except that it screws people who don't deserve to be screwed. And allows liars cheaters and thieves to get away with their douchebaggery.

I hope you're able to find peace with whatever happens, and move on and continue to live your fabulous life. Your ex will continue to be eaten alive from the inside out. These people never find peace. ((Barcher))

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4405   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8724366
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 4:47 PM on Monday, March 21st, 2022

AND I GOT HER GONE.

This is one of the things that I am trying to focus on. I have been through a lot of emotional abuse and financial cost... but the end result... eventually... will be this. She will be out of my life... and that's pretty much something that is literally priceless.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8724631
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 4:56 PM on Monday, March 21st, 2022

I'm dumbfounded. (This also makes me frightened for my own case.)

I am guessing that you will still be okay. My second attorney flat-out told me that my judge was stupid. They apparently went to law school together and everyone (including Attorney#2) made fun of him. He was appointed for political reasons (i.e., he was really chummy with the governor who appointed him), not because of his stellar legal mind.

It also is worth noting that I have had a number of people, including attorneys, say that the legal system in the county where my divorce was heard is really weird and non-sensical. That doesn't make me feel any better, but it does suggest that you have a better chance of success than me.

The appellate court STRONGLY defers to the district court's decisions... so I was playing against a stacked deck during my appeal and I knew it. They don't want to say things like "wow, I would have ruled differently"... they only get involved if the judge truly made an error in applying the law.

I also feel like the courts are somewhat biased against men in divorces, especially when they earn a lot more than their ex-wives.

So... here's to hoping that you get a just decision from your legal battles!!

I'm so sorry, Barcher. I am happy to read that you are ready to move on with your life and pick your battles. Still keep us updated of what you ultimately decide.

We're going to ask the court to reduce/eliminate her alimony because she's living with her current boyfriend. My guess is that they are going to attempt to dispute it... but we have a lot of documentation. Even then, it's still going to be up to the judge... who I potentially pissed off by appealing his decision.

We'll see how this goes. I am close to giving up on all of it because the emotional cost is too high. I can just pay the money as a penalty for crimes committed during my prior lives.... I dunno. duh

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8724635
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 9:33 PM on Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022

She will be out of my life... and that's pretty much something that is literally priceless.

Oh, it sure is. Freeeddoommmmmmm!!!! (Insert photo of Mel Gibson as William Wallace here.)

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4405   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8724933
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 barcher144 (original poster member #54935) posted at 11:49 PM on Tuesday, March 22nd, 2022

Mini-updates:

1. Yesterday was my mother's birthday. I called her to wish her happy birthday. We immediately got into a huge fight because without going into the details, my mother is a narcissist. I literally hung up on her for the first time in my life. I sort of felt bad about it... but at the same time, she was behaving inappropriately and rather than escalate the argument... I just hung up. Then, last night, I figured out what she was doing. First, she was yelling at me because I wasn't following her advice for my divorce. The reality is that she didn't actually give me any advice and as y'all know... my divorce is actually over. Second, she was telling me what I was thinking and then yelling at me because what she believed to be my thought process was offensive to her. I wasn't actually thinking what she said that I was thinking. Third, she started crying because she was the victim of me not following her advice and for thinking the awful things that I wasn't thinking. Anyway... somehow... realizing how nutso my conversation was with her... has made me feel better. I had more pep in my step today.

2. I asked my attorney for a chat on what the hell is going on with my case. I don't know what we are doing or why and how long it will all take and/or cost. We are going to try and talk next week.

3. I received initial filings for my case today too. Reading these would have been helpful to me. Basically, at the present time, we are simply notifying the judge that we believe that she is living with her boyfriend and we have reasons to believe that his alimony judgement should be modified. There is also some collateral work to do from the appeal. The good news about filing today is that any alimony that I pay going forward can be refunded back to today.

4. We currently have a hearing scheduled for June. I think that we are going to do mediation before that (I still need to talk to my attorney).

... so the saga continues...

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5297   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8724963
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little turtle ( member #15584) posted at 5:42 PM on Wednesday, March 23rd, 2022

I'm sad to hear things have played out the way they did. I thought you had this one!! I'm glad to see you're not letting the decision bring you down and you're able to continue living life and moving on. That says so much about your mental health. Proud of you!

Hope all is well with your kiddos. smile

Failure is success if we learn from it.

posts: 5498   ·   registered: Aug. 1st, 2007   ·   location: michigan
id 8725097
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WhoTheBleep ( member #49504) posted at 12:05 AM on Thursday, March 24th, 2022

she was telling me what I was thinking and then yelling at me because what she believed to be my thought process was offensive to her. I wasn't actually thinking what she said that I was thinking. Third, she started crying because she was the victim of me not following her advice and for thinking the awful things that I wasn't thinking

I literally got heart palpitations reading this. (Instead of crying, I would get the silent treatment for days).

So great that you recognize what she was doing and disengaged. You have come so far! Nothing but good things for you in the future with all of this knowledge and experience you've gathered, Barcher.

I believe we have two lives: the one we learn with, and the one we live with after that. --The Natural

posts: 4405   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2015   ·   location: USA
id 8725227
Topic is Sleeping.
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