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I Can Relate :
BS Questions for WS - Part 14

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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 4:48 AM on Saturday, July 3rd, 2021

This is only the second time I have ever posted in this forum. The last time, my post went unanswered, lost in the many questions from BS'S. I appreciate the few WAYWARDS who respond, but u wish there were more who were willing to be honest. Thank you.

My question is simply this. Are YOU worth it? Or what makes YOU worth it? For all if the life long pain and trauma, all of the permanent scars your BS will carry, are you worth the effort of R? I know it's a gift as many have said, but is there more? My STBXWW still thought she was the prize and I had "won" in the end, so she obviously thought she was worth it.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 2:09 AM, July 3rd (Saturday)]

Me:53STBXWW:51DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off.Denied having an affair in court papers.

posts: 1118   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8672114
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 5:08 AM on Sunday, July 4th, 2021

I work hard to be worth it, but my deepest fear is that my BH would in fact be happier with someone new, someone who would never trigger mind movies or the memory of how she betrayed him. I have had dreams of dying relatively young and him being able to start over without guilt or complications. We've all read stories where five years out, the BS is filled with relief and joy at having moved on to the relationship they feel they were always meant to have. I am terrified that I belong in his rear view mirror, and I'm remorseful beyond description that I did not give him the agency to make a fully informed choice about that when we were young.

But there is a dark side to the unknown. I don't think he wants to live alone, and a new person comes with no guarantees of being better than me. He's not the type to try to run off with a 25 year old, so whomever he meets will have decades of history behind her and be loaded down with her own baggage. A disturbing number of BS bounce back here with a story of a new betrayal in their post-D relationships. It would likely take years of trial and error for him to find someone who deserved him, who fit with our kids, who meshed with our families and friends. I understand my BH. I can often read his emotions better than he can. I am deeply, completely invested in him, in making him feel safe, in helping him feel loved. If he met someone new tomorrow, he would be 88 years old before he had been with her as long as he has with me. And while we're still working to lift the shadow that my lies cast on those years, there are things we've been through together -- both joyful and tragic -- that have bound us together in ways that no one else can touch. We have never stopped loving each other. I still see a little glow around him when he walks into a room, even after all this time.

I have no doubt that my BH could find love again. The man is a catch, as I am frequently told by my friends. But because I'm very lucky, he still thinks I'm his best bet, and he knows that I will do everything I can to prove him right.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 5:11 AM, Sunday, July 4th]

WW/BW 51 (Me)BH/WH 51 (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2068   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8672279
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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 9:44 AM on Monday, July 5th, 2021

Are YOU worth it?

Yes. Most humans and most marriages are worth trying to save/heal. Most people aren't actually evil and in many of cases affairs have very little to do with the collateral damage of the relationship. Whether the relationship can be saved or a new one forged is a different question.

what makes YOU worth it

Same thing that makes you worth being in a relationship with your partner from your partner's point of view. Someone's humanity isn't erased because of an affair any more than elevated because they were betrayed.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 7:23 AM, July 5th (Monday)]

posts: 270   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2019
id 8672475
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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 9:44 AM on Monday, July 5th, 2021

Double post, lol

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 3:44 AM, July 5th (Monday)]

posts: 270   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2019
id 8672476
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 3:02 PM on Monday, July 5th, 2021

Justsomeguy

I think a more appropriate question would be “Do you (as the BS) think the WS is worth it?

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t hate what I did. I would give my left nut to take it all back. But I can’t.

I have changed. I’m not the same person who arrived here 4 1/2 years ago. The very idea of cheating is terribly triggering to me. I am finally fully committed to my wife, family and marriage.

Whoop dee do for me. It still doesn’t i ring that bell.

IMO, short of murder, cheating is the worst thing a WS can do to their SO. I will never understand how a person can forgive a betrayal like that. Staying with a cheater will always be a head scratcher to me.

That’s why I think it’s more of a question for a BS to answer. Even if you have the perfect remorseful WS, is it worth it to you to stay? I’m not referring to the financial aspects of it either although that can’t be dismissed out of hand. I’m talking about the cost to ones emotional well being, their soul if you will. Can one make some sort of peace with what happened so it doesn’t tear at them 5-10 years down the road? At least reach a point where there is more joy than sadness? If the answer is yes, then perhaps it’s worth it. Otherwise it’s best to cut bait and leave.

Me -FWS

posts: 1865   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8672503
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 3:27 PM on Monday, July 5th, 2021

I don't think I ever thought I was worth R. But I worked at being worthy of my BH's decision to stay. He made that choice and he felt that was the right choice at the time he made it and I tried my best to show him that his choice was a good one for him and for us over and over. I wasn't always successful. Funny, I had similar dreams to BSR about me dying young and my BH moving on and being happy. But he ultimately chose to stay with me. I just try to make it so that he doesn't regret his choice.

About being worthy, that's separate than being worthy of R. Over time, with a lot of work and therapy, I have learned that I am a worthy person despite my A. I am worth being loved. I am worth having a supportive family surrounding me. That doesn't mean I was worthy of R though. To be honest, I don't think any WS is worthy of R (at least definitely not in the beginning). I think R is a choice and a gift that the BS makes and bestows. The WS has to earn that gift in the first place and then honor and cherish it thereafter through their behavior, work, support and love for and to their BS. Maybe, ultimately they will prove that their were worthy of that gift. But IMO, only the BS can determine that.

Sorry for the long-winded stream of consciousness. Happy 4th!

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 703   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8672511
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 1:53 PM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

I'm stuck in a bit of a mental loop over this one, any wayward input would be appreciated.

I got the "I can't stand her (AP), she makes me sick just thinking about her" this morning.

Here is the loop. Am I happy that the main AP in my WH life makes my WH sick? no it makes me incredibly sad, why throw me away for someone who makes you ill? how can you go from desiring someone so much you keep them in your life for years and now say the opposite? That's the loop essentially how can you be so extreme then end up at the other end? From craving her texts, her touch, her time to almost hate, physically making him queasy thinking about her. I'm so confused and none of my meditations are helping me out of this. All damn day.

So my question is.

Have you ever felt like this about your AP? where does it come from? Do they represent the affair and is that what makes you ill? or is it truly thinking about the AP that makes you ill? What changed you from "I desire them so much" to "thinking about them makes me sick"?

It's hard for me to understand that flip so any insight on how you got there (from willing to burn it all down for them to now can't stand them).

ty

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 7:55 AM, July 6th (Tuesday)]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 187   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8672715
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 2:18 PM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

Hi LostInHisFog.

Have you ever felt like this about your AP? where does it come from? Do they represent the affair and is that what makes you ill? or is it truly thinking about the AP that makes you ill? What changed you from "I desire them so much" to "thinking about them makes me sick"?

Everybody's situation is different, but for me, the AP was the vehicle through which I caused immeasurable pain to my BH and blew up my life and my family's life. During the A, I didn't see the AP for who he truly was. I was swept up in the fantasyland aspect and what I was getting out of it. The cold light of day is very harsh. Thinking of the AP is a reminder of my bad choices and what I was willing to do to the people I was supposed to love and cherish. I'm being brief here, but for me at least, it's not about the AP himself, or his looks or something where suddenly I think he's hideous. He represents the most shameful part of my life that has impacted so much and will be with me and my BH for the rest of ours. I don't think of him really, but when I do, it sickens me because of me, not him, but it's not productive or helpful for me to wallow in that at this stage so I direct those feelings at the AP - he's an easy target. Does that make sense?

Now, I will say that this was not a Day 1 feeling. In fact, I told the AP I loved him even after DDay. Take what your BH is saying in context and together with everything else he is doing or saying. Is he saying that because he thinks that's what you want to hear? Is he trying to allay any of your fears or insecurities? Is he trying to distance himself from the AP? Is he doing everything else a WS should be doing in supporting you or is this just something he's spouting? Basically, I'm questioning if it's genuine (I don't know either way - only you would). But if you've been asking if she's prettier, younger, better in bed, bigger breasts, thinner, or whatever and he's trying to comfort you, then he may not really feel that way but he wants to ease your pain or worse, just put you off from bothering him about the A or the AP.

Sorry for the long answer. It makes sense that a WS would say this. But IMO it needs to go hand in hand with positive behavior. Otherwise it sounds disingenuous.

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 703   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8672721
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 2:48 PM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

@MrsWalloped

Thank you so much for replying and explaining how you got to that mindset.

Part of my problem is not only is my WH a narc but he was gaslighting me for over a decade, not just about his As but ... well everything it seems. I have been kept in a very well guarded shoebox for sometime it seems, I'm getting decent help finally with a the right kind of therapist but it's very hard to believe in anything. It's why I've been stuck nit-picking this loop of, as you said, the motives of why say this now? How saying it actually makes me feel worse (and me trying to work out why that makes me feel worse than if he sung her praises this morning.) I'm finding it hard to believe but not only because of the gaslighting but the 'well if she makes you feel that way what was the appeal to begin with' how can you swing that extreme.

This AP I've only found out about and it's been his longest EA/PA to date (That I know about, TT is a nightmare, hell) but since the 'outing' of this one has come after finding out about others (I honestly feel like a infidelity archeologist at this point) I no longer care about what she is like, looks like etc, I figure since she had a willing vajay and he had opportunity that was good enough for him you know, so I don't know why he just came out of the blue and announced this this morning, wrecked my day. Maybe because knowing about her is so new in the context of things that he was in damage control mode? but that doesn't make sense since the impact of her is so less.

Honestly appreciate the reply and the fast reply at that! I would have been up with this all night but you have helped me develop new Q&As in my head over it and I thank you for the food for thought given.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 8:51 AM, July 6th (Tuesday)]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 187   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8672730
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ThankYah ( new member #79037) posted at 4:00 PM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

Did any WS blame their BS for years as the reason for a bad marriage while thinking you'd happier with someone else.. Then eventually you got your wish, this led you to your A, and you found out after the fog faded that the problem was actually you and your BS was an amazing person.. How did this go? What realization did you have about yourself and your BS? Was it too late by then to reconcile?

Thanks!

WW started PA April 2021
Living in different apartments with hard 180 since June 2021
Healing and seeing how this plays out.

posts: 19   ·   registered: Jun. 29th, 2021
id 8672753
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 3:50 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

MrsWalloped. I had previously read all of yours and your WH posts, but don’t recall in any of them that you mentioned that you told your AP after Dday that you loved him. What I recall you posted was that you called him to say that you’ll never forget him. I recall that you BH excused this initial betrayal after dday because you were still in the fog, and looked at everything thereafter. But still, I don’t recall that you posted that you told your AP you loved him post Dday.

A question for MrsWalloped snd the other WW’s who are remorseful and successfully reconciling: what did your marriage look like in the midst of your affair with regard to everyday life, social engagements, normal things married couples do? For example, were you social with friends, other couples, etc. as if nothing was going on in your other wayward life? Did you do together things with your husband such as go to dinner, the movies, date night, etc? If yes, how was the interaction with your BH when you did these one on one couples things? Was your feelings during date night during your A any different than during the affair?

MrsWalloped, and some others, have mentioned that they compartmentalized their affairs. However, what I’m trying to get at is whether all of these social things I mentioned above, like going out with other couples, date nights with your husband, etc. never changed with respect to the WW behavior, feelings, snd interaction with your BH, and were totally the same during the affair as compared to prior to the Affair? You’re at a nice restaurant with your husband on a Saturday date night during the A snd you acted during dinner exactly the same as you did prior to the A?

posts: 155   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8673498
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 8:25 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Justsomeguy,

Back when I wanted to R, I never considered whether or not *I* thought I was “worth it”....my own perception of that wouldn’t have mattered. It would be a determination for my H to make.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6316   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8673601
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motod ( new member #37206) posted at 10:24 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Sometime ago a FWH wrote that during a particularly vigorous rendezvous with his female AP, a young wife with small children, she exclaimed: "Wow! I've never done that before"! While that statement appears to be a momentary joyous expression, after additional reflection I found it to have a melancholy portent. It seemed to hint that her BH would never measure up to her AP, at least not in the bedroom. I have often envisioned the WW fondly recalling those "WoW" moments while relaxing during solitary breaks in her daily life and that she regards these memories as precious keepsakes.

If you are a WS who had some "WoW" moments in your affair how often do you think about them and what causes them to enter your thoughts?

If you have reconciled with your BS do these memories ever lessen your desire for, or satisfaction with, your BS?

If you and your BS separated and/or divorced because of the affair, did that change your perceptions of the affair and those particular occasions? Do you regret the affair, but not the experiences gained?

In either case, do you feel the affair enhanced you personal sexual history?

The original posting has lingered in my mind since it was first written, but I was prompted to ask these questions after watching the movie " A Walk On The Moon". I correlated the situations of the WW in the original post and that of Pearl, the WW in the movie. How could they both not help but to remember their interludes with their AP's except in the most explicitly favorable ways possible? How do they, or anyone who lives this, return to a place of contentment in their marriage?

Everyone is welcomed to respond.

Good Luck.

posts: 23   ·   registered: Oct. 20th, 2012
id 8673639
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rugswept ( member #48084) posted at 1:38 AM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

TO WS: you had finally done the deed with the AP for the very first time. And then you had to go home.

What did you really feel when you went home to your innocent trusting partner?

You walk into your home or your bedroom or something and there was your BS.

Did you start off with Hi Honey, la di da...

Did you not say anything?

Did you feel anything at all?

Did you feel bad or guilty and then went on to do a lot more with AP?

Did you fear your BS would know right away that something was wrong?

What was your biggest concern... that you'd be found out?

I just have a hard time accepting a WS can go home to the BS, straight faced and then start the long stream of lies that are necessary to cover up everything.

R'd (rug swept everything) decades ago.
I'm big on R. Very happy marriage but can never forget.

posts: 965   ·   registered: Jun. 2nd, 2015   ·   location: Northeast US
id 8673717
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 7:27 PM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

Dude67,

MrsWalloped. I had previously read all of yours and your WH posts, but don’t recall in any of them that you mentioned that you told your AP after Dday that you loved him.

I don't want to threadjack this thread for what it's for. So briefly, while I regret it tremendously, I did tell that to the AP and I know I told my BH that I did. Whether my BH posted it here or not, I don't know. I guess you can look it up.

what did your marriage look like in the midst of your affair with regard to everyday life, social engagements, normal things married couples do? If yes, how was the interaction with your BH when you did these one on one couples things? Was your feelings during date night during your A any different than during the affair?

We did all the typical things. Date nights, weddings, community events, etc. My BH was very busy at work and I was busy helping my daughter with wedding plans so we didn't have a lot of social time and there was resentments because of that. But my A did not intrude in my home life. I compartmentalized to such a degree my BH was totally blindsided by my actions. So yes, dinner and a movie with my BH and then I'd be with the AP the next day and then back to my BH. Nothing changed about my behavior.

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 703   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8674036
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 7:33 PM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

motod,

In either case, do you feel the affair enhanced you personal sexual history?

No. While I did things with the AP that I hadn't done with my BH at the time, those weren't wow sexual moments. They were empowering moments for me. What I'm trying to say (poorly) is that they while the act was sexual the drive behind it for me wasn't. It was about feeling powerful and free and desired. The acts were means to that end. Does that make sense? And no, I don't reminisce about them or think fondly about them at all. Because while I didn't realize it during the A and hindsight is 20/20, I know that what I was really doing was debasing myself for validation and an ego boost.

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 703   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8674037
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 7:39 PM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

Hi rugswept.

I just have a hard time accepting a WS can go home to the BS, straight faced and then start the long stream of lies that are necessary to cover up everything.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That's exactly what I did and many WS do. In my case lying was the easy part because I didn't have to do much of it at all. But if not that then what? The WS comes home and confesses? How often do you see that here (there are a notable few that confessed, but they are the exception IMO)? All of the BS's in JFO that are shell shocked are that way because we've been hiding it. What is it that you can't accept?

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 703   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8674041
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 8:15 PM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

Mrs Walloped, thank you for your reply.

I think what the previous poster was saying, and that I was saying I guess in a less direct manner, is that in many cases the WW during the A withholds something from the BH - sex, intimacy, emotional connection, time spent together, etc.

In these cases, the BH May sense that something is off, but either can’t put their finger on it or simply chalks it up to a temporary dynamic, because how could the BH even contemplate such a thing as an A.

So when the A is uncovered, IMO the damage is much worse for the BH who was in what both parties considered an excellent marriage pre A. Post A, the BH thinks how could my loving wife compartmentalize this all the while carry on with me like nothing was going on - social events, date nights, great sex, intimacy, emotional connection.

If the marriage had problems, or the BH was a crappy partner, it’s not that this BH can or should accept the A more than the great husband, it’s just that I think the damage to a BH who was a terrific husband in a great marriage can be worse .

posts: 155   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8674051
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rugswept ( member #48084) posted at 2:59 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Mrs. Walloped... thx for the reply.

Perhaps "accept" was not a good choice of words. Your response did give me insight. It appears your initial response after "it happened" was self preservation. Maybe that is what dominates the mind in this situation.

I was wondering how conflicting it was for a wayward to have to return to their BS and their M and to carry on as if things are fine. It has to be a tough moment for a WS to face BS the first time. This would not apply to serious cheaters in that I doubt they feel anything.

R'd (rug swept everything) decades ago.
I'm big on R. Very happy marriage but can never forget.

posts: 965   ·   registered: Jun. 2nd, 2015   ·   location: Northeast US
id 8674243
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GiggleLoopMayor ( new member #74900) posted at 7:37 AM on Sunday, July 11th, 2021

First off let me just say really a big thanks to the waywards who answer, its pretty impressive how reliably questions do get answered that require reflection and digging into the worst moments of life.

My question is for those who had APs that tried or did shit talk their (as in your) spouse in the affair how did that not immediately blow the fantasy wide open? How did an AP taking joy out of disrespecting your spouse or trying to not immediately tarnish the sheen of them? Im not trying to single anyone out but I know from reading the story apparently Mrs Walloped's AP tried to ask her if her husband ever did "this" for her in what im guessing is a condescending disrespectful way. Fair play she did shut him down and told him shed leave if he ever brought up walloped again but still. I dont get how that smug pleasure at hurting your spouse wasnt like driving into a brick wall.

I had come close a few times to throwing punches because someone had disrespected me ex wife, and I just cant fathom how id ever let someone actively disrespect her like that. The AP in my story was hell bent on disrespecting me, and managed to talk me ex into at least one thing she admitted too that I just dont understand how you could ever profess to love someone and yet let someone do that. To me it would erode the theory of compartmentalization because your AP is forcibly bringing your home life into the fantasy.

Thanks in advance, Im doing very well and i wouldnt even say im struggling with this, its more just a flummoxing juxtaposition that Ive yet to find a direct answer on.

[This message edited by GiggleLoopMayor at 1:37 AM, July 11th (Sunday)]

posts: 41   ·   registered: Jul. 16th, 2020
id 8674457
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