SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's perfectly okay to want to reconcile. Lots of BS's do. But it's really early on, you just found out a few days ago. There's no way to tell how you're going to feel later after you've had time to absorb this trauma. And... there's no way to know if your WW will continue to be receptive to R and compliant with the kind of hard work she'll need to do in order to make it successful.

So no, you don't have to run right out and file for D. But you do need to be practical and keep it as a viable option in case things fall apart. If you allow your earlier list to stand, you've "condoned" her affair. It's forgiven, and you'll not receive any consideration from the court if everything goes to hell in a handbasket. This early after DDay, it's just good strategy to KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN.

I know how hard it is to be practical when your heart is broken, but I really do think you need to walk that list back.

I am the one who does not know a woman who stayed after her affair. There are many women who post on the wayward site that do stay.

No two stories are alike and yet they all have something in common. There are bs who did not sign up to be cheated on. I was one of them. I can sympathize with you because I knew and did not confront. Too young and too poor. Years later I asked and he admitted.

All we are trying to do is help you look at what we “see” when we read what you write. Your wife is having an affair and it looks like she is breaking your heart.

Right now you feel like you are drowning.

Always make sure looking after your health is the first thing you do. And remember everyone on this forum wants you to heal and the best way to do that is getting out of infidelity.

AZ is a no fault state so condoning doesn't really matter, but I take your point.

As I said, I met with an attorney on Tuesday morning. It was one of the first things I did. That option is very much open.

I want R, but I'm not yet sure if I'm capable of forgiving. That's what I need to figure out through therapy, either alone or with her.

I have an entire scorched earth thought process in place that included everything mentioned before. I've already even reached out to the medical board to see how I would proceed if I choose that path.

Just because I'm taking a step back to absorb and ponder, and perhaps even give her the slack she needs to choke herself, doesn't mean I'm blind.

Someone asked about if she paid for a babysitter, would I be okay? No, that's not what that means, and in our discussion we were clear about the topics.

The protection thing I had an issue with too. Again, I made things clear in our discussion that it wasn't okay. I didn't accept that it would continue. I wanted it to stop and now. But as I'm not threatening an immediate divorce, if she were to do it, she better practice safe sex. And because I can't trust that she is, she needs to do the same with me if we get to that point.

With regards to her taking time from our relationship to pursue that one... Sure, she's kinda done that so far. No doubt. But what I meant and discussed with her was basically that she's not going to go spend time with either of them when we should be together. Either as a couple or a family. If I'm out and she insists on spending time with them because she just can't stay away, then that's whatever. I don't like it, but you have to make your own choices. I'd rather you just choose me.

The counseling... Some of you say it's a waste of time and money while the A is ongoing. I'll take that under advisement.

Same time/place... Look guys, there's a lot more involved in this. I live in a very small tight knit community. There's going to be overlap. Including tomorrow at our gym's public potluck. They are going to be there. I can't control that. But I'm not going to be. And she needed to understand that it wasn't because I don't support our gym. And next weekend at our annual celebration at my house. They cannot be in my home. They have been uninvited. I don't really care what they think of that.

Being kind to each other... There's never anything wrong with that. We both have been quick to turn away from the other, respond negatively, unkindly. We need to stop that. We needed to stop that before. But there's no reason we shouldn't implement this now. Even if we go the route of divorce, we need to be mindful of the kids.

I haven’t read thru all the posts, but do not close on your new house unless it’s you who will get it.

Do not tell your WW about this site.

You have to give her consequences of epic proportions as she is clearly crossing the line of respect with you.

The counseling... Some of you say it's a waste of time and money while the A is ongoing.

There's a reason for that. It's because you don't want to get into a position early on where the WS feels supported blaming you or the marriage. You were in the same marriage she was, and you didn't cheat. Nothing you did (or didn't do) caused your WW to make that choice. The cheating is 100% about HER.

Marriage counselors are there for the marriage. But your marriage didn't cheat. Your WW did. Cheating is about character.

Here's a post I made for another thread, but with some minor modifications, it works here too...

First off, none of this is your fault. Cheating is 100% about the cheater. You were in the same marriage she was, and you didn't cheat. It's about CHARACTER. It's about the gap between a WS's stated values and their actual deeds. Your WW has a "but..." in her core value of fidelity. ie. "She believes in fidelity, but... not if she's unhappy or whatever." You see how that works, right? You and I don't have a "but..." in our core value of fidelity. We have a "so...". ie. "We believe in fidelity, so... we don't put ourselves in risky situations with people of the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY. We build these boundaries around our core beliefs in order to protect them. It's intuitive. We don't sit around thinking about it. But it gets done.

For cheaters, not so much. Their core values are weak and permeable. They haven't spent too much time thinking about what they truly believe in and what value they place on those beliefs. I can't be made to cheat with a gun to my head. My core values are strong. My boundaries surrounding them are tall and inflexible. You see how that works? It wasn't your fault. The failure is with your WW and in how she interacts with her own values/belief system. You didn't cause that. You couldn't have fixed it. And you couldn't have stopped it.

Cheating is about character. The work is daunting, and it's NOT your work to do. It's hers. Your job, if you're of a mind to R, is to insist that she gets it done.

{snip}

Feeling of anxiety are NORMAL. I'm not saying it's a good state of being or that you shouldn't address it proactively, but the more you study on the trauma of infidelity, the more you'll see that certain symptoms are ubiquitous.

It helps to understand where all that is coming from. Toward that end, I have two books I'd like to recommend to you. The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk, who is unarguably the world's premier expert on trauma. What helped me the most was LEARNING about my trauma response.

The amygdala of the brain (fight, flight, freeze) are only loosely connected with the prefrontal cortex (logic), which means that we can't talk ourselves out of trauma. After a traumatic experience, our amygdala can kind of get stuck in a state of hyper-alertness. It's like some invisible person shouting "boo" in your ear a hundred times a day. You encounter some small trigger, a random thought, and all of the sudden, your body is flooded with adrenaline and cortisol. After a few months of this, you might start noticing that you feel sick to your stomach, startling more than usual, and that your anxiety is out of control. This is something your medical doctor can help you with, and believe me, there's no shame in seeking treatment for it. Our doctors have heard it all, and the vast majority of us do need some medical help to get back on our feet. So, don't hesitate to get some help.

The amygdala can be stuck for a very long time. For the first few YEARS after my DDay, I would notice that a trigger (or even a scare or startle unrelated to the adultery) would produce a certain set of symptoms. I would notice a mild queasiness, mild pain in the head and neck, and a strong mood swing into a really black depression. After awhile, I realized that these symptoms would abate in 12-48 hours. The point here is that it's a PHYSICAL response. Your amygdala can't tell the difference between clear and present danger and an emotional reaction. And even though you can't reason your way around it, there are some techniques which can help like EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), mindfulness, neurofeedback, etc. These therapies are being adopted by lots of counselors these day, so there's more than just talk therapy to be had in IC (individual counseling). I found EMDR to be particularly helpful, albeit very challenging.

The other book I wanted to recommend is The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson. This book was written for people who have been permanently abandoned in their primary relationship, but even as someone who chose R, I got a lot out of it. Infidelity IS an "abandonment wound". Whether our spouse leaves us for a day or a month or forever, we have been abandoned. As the author points out, the fear of abandonment we all possess is hard-wired into us from infancy. It's why babies cry for their mothers when they can't see them, and it's why we are traumatized by the loss of our mate when they cheat. Anderson also goes over some of the same ground as van der Kolk, explaining what's going on inside our bodies and making the link to how our minds are affected. She's even got a few tools in her kit to get us started on ministering to ourselves. So, even though it's not a book about R, I do highly recommend it.

For a book on R, try John Gottman's What Makes Love Last?: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal . Trust, of course, it the biggest casualty of adultery. And as far as I know, the naive and innocent trust we once had never returns. That can be a good thing though. It can make us more discerning and make us raise our expectations and goals. I found that even though I had answered questions in the affirmative such as "has your spouse ever cheated" and "do you think your spouse might cheat?", my trust metric was still quite high. Trust is layered. I still had trust in my WH to be financially responsible, to care for the children, even to care for me if I was sick or injured. IOW, there was still enough to build on. Gottman is also a great resource for improving communications and learning to turn toward your partner.

I can't tell you if your WW is a good candidate for R or not. Only you can determine that. I can, however, reassure you that there ARE things you can do to deal with the pain and emotions you're dealing with. Most of that is about really getting involved in your own therapy and understanding that it's NOT your fault. We have to get comfortable with letting other people carry their own baggage. When we do, we reach "acceptance" faster. And really, this is a grieving process. What you thought you had is gone. You're going to grieve over that the same as you would over a death, and the five stages are going to apply; denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. They might not come in any particular order and they'll cycle madly until you finally reach the final variation of acceptance which sticks. But you'll get through it. Believe you will and you will.

Your feelings are normal. All of them. But it takes time to work through it all and see where you're going to come out. I can tell you right now, based on my own experience and sixteen years of study, that you can't "nice" a WS back into the marriage and then have a successful R. That character work doesn't do itself and YOU can't do it for her. She's got to see the necessity of it and she's got to WANT it more than anything. Otherwise, you're walking on eggshells for the rest of your life.

Marriage counselors don't get down into that kind of work. If they're good, they're handing you something by Gottman. If they're not, they're handing you The Five Love Languages as if YOU were some all-powerful being who can MAKE someone else actually VALUE the things they say they do by telling them how pretty they are or by buying them some trinkets.

Either way though, they're there for the marriage, not to help you deal with the trauma you've experienced or challenge her to examine her core values and build some meaningful boundaries. Allowing your WS to believe for a single second that the cheating is about you or the marriage or about anything else is letting the get the bit between their teeth. They'll take it and run with it, and you'll be on the sidelines wondering what the hell happened to all the promises they made about changing.

I know we've hit you with a lot today. Hang in there though. Read. Challenge your preconceptions. So much of the advice you'll receive will feel really counter-intuitive, but that's just the nature of dealing with infidelity. It's messy and unjust, and there's no quick, easy method of getting through it.

This is crazy. But since everyone has seemed to lost all sense of boundaries, why don't you demand that you get to sleep with the AP's wife. Fair is fair. See how the AP goes for that. Before you blow this marriage out of the water, and that is what it deserves, call these people out for the bullshit they are peddling. Demand equal time with his wife. See how wifey likes that idea. I am not advocating you follow through with that idea, but it might give a better perspective on how utterly selfish and outrageous this entire situation has become. You must file for divorce and serve her. Advise her that you can pull the plug on the divorce if she immediately straightens up and flies right. Absolutely no new house! Others have given you good advice on what other steps to take. I will not repeat it. I am amazed you haven't gone ballistic. But that's me. I am a BS who jettisoned a serial cheater.

[This message edited by src9043 at 1:38 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

I really hate to see a train wreck in slow motion, but I am witnessing one happening here.

I have done literally hundreds of hours of reading across various infidelity forums and have have not once, not a single time, seen any reconciliation where a husband has been betrayed and he did not take immediate, decisive and harsh measures to stop the A.

The cases most effectively resolved involved the husband demanding immediate NC, exposing the affair to anyone and everyone and setting clear ultimatums he was willing to enforce.

Never have I read about or seen a buffered approach work, even once. I have seen that WWs exploited every inch of wiggle room left open to them and loose respect for the husband for providing that wiggle room.

OP, a wife engaging in an affair already has very little respect for her BH. By not dropping the hammer, knowing the nature of a woman, your wife is not gaining, but fast loosing any remaining respect for you. Do you really think a woman respects a man who let's her sleep with another man at all? NO, they don't and won't, ever again if given permission to do so.

It's not too late to withdraw that tacit permission granted, do so immediately.

OP, you can rationalize your current path all you want, but steering towards a wall while only lightly tapping the brake is not going to prevent the crash.

NC NOW! No negotiations, no compromise on that. Failing this, the fantasy of unicorn land will never end for her.

You want her to CHOOSE you. She already has, as the chump who will baby sit her children while she builds her new relationship. You may have altered her plans, but you are not changing the direction she is steering towards (that wall that is the end of your family). You merely tapped the brakes lightly.

File for that divorce and have her served, you can always halt it, but I am guessing down the line, you may not want to and might be happy for time not wasted. The shock of the realization that she is facing the imminent loss of your family is just the shot of cold water to the face a WW needs.

Expose, expose, expose. Nothing disinfects like sunlight. With reputations shattered and real consequences, people have no drive left in the direction of that wall. It is easier to fix a stalled car than one smashed to pieces by that wall.

OP, this is not a game, it is the imminent death of your family and you are the emergency responder.

If a paramedic sees a gravely injured patient, he acts with urgency and sometimes aggressively enough to shatter ribs in order to save that life. He does not give the patient guidelines on how to live and hopes that the patient chooses to.

You either act aggressively NOW or watch your family die. It's really as simple as that.

The path you chose is the wrong one and you are about to loose everything.

I know you are in shock and pain, believe me, I've been there, but now is the time to WAKE UP and ACT.

Dismiss this and similar advice at your own peril and that of your family.

We want you to be happy, because we want to be happy and some of us wish that someone was there to give us this kind of straight talk.

Not one person here is criticizing you and your choices for any other reason but the fact that we really, really don't want to watch a slow motion train wreck unfold.

The people most critical to you here are actually the people typing with tears in their eyes, because they care!

Any further signs of weakness or tacit permission given for her actions IS the end of your family.

ACT DECICIVELY NOW!

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:09 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

She's actually always been one of the kindest and empathetic women I know.

Brother you have got to stop putting her on a pedestal. Your situation is not unique nor is your WW, ALL of our cheating spouses were the GREATEST ever, mine certainly was, til I couldn’t get along with her BF!

Over half the members here, I dare say, were told the OBS was aware of what was going on. Even when the other spouse took part in threesomes, but they were not aware the other two were seeing more of each other, it happens. That is why you have continuously been told to check with the other spouse, ensure she isn’t also being betrayed. It’s hard to paint people here with a broad brush, you really can’t use the word ALL but one generalization that is ALWAYS true is ALL cheaters LIE! Forget what you read on her phone, half of it was probably BS anyway.

Brother, it’s a long road back from this, LONG, I’m sure you want this over quick but this isn’t a quick process, especially if you R. Might I suggest you adjust your goal, R is the perfect outcome for you, it’s what I’d like to see for you but you goal needs to be to get out of infidelity. Where ever that takes you, D or R, you don’t control that.

Not sure why you got so defensive, I didn’t read all the comments but what I did read you got GREAT advice. I saw a comment that probably shouldn’t have been said but I’m not judging, there are forum monitors that will address it. I didn’t see anyone call you weak, hell if you’re weak for your actions post DD we all are because none of responded perfectly, most of did just as you did. Again, we’ve all been in your shoes, no one is judging you. There is a saying on here; take what you can use and leave the rest. If you don’t like a piece of advice leave it, you make the decision of what you do. If your offended because your WW was called a name, get over it, your WW is a cheater and she isn’t gonna get much sympathy from this crowd and like I said, that comment will probably be addressed.

I’m glad your WW stayed home tonight. Believe actions not words. Actually the saying is believe nothing that comes out of her mouth and half of what you see.

Lastly, thick skin helps around here, none of us come here to offend newly betrayed. But most of the time we don’t sugar-coat things either.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 7:13 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

No Contact means No Contact. If they are coming into contact at the gym then your wife either needs to cancel their contract or not be there when they are there.

I know it’s a small community and you feel that you want it not to get out, but I do CrossFit. Trust me - everyone at the gum already knows.

You're treating your WW like she's the same loving wife you married.

She's not.

She will burn you bad if you don't take control.

I find it entirely believable that your wife is a good person to everyone else on the planet besides you the other BS and her kids . Please dont underestimate the damage she has chosen to do to all of you .

I also agree with what you said about her brainwashing in a way , she was with a cheater then she was with an abuser and then she was with a great guy , for mentally healthy people thats the end , they take a victory lap

But your wife is unable to stay fulfilled with you because she is a broken person who needs to be in a fucked up relationship . This may not be a reversible pathology . Brainwashing cults are highly dangerous and nearly always include pedophilia so if thats the case you need to focus on protecting your kids from her bad decisions .

I do like the idea of your setting rules but i think you are being far too encouraging of the affair with those rules . Try these

“ If you see him or contact him again in the next 3 mnths i will inform the medical board his wife and the entire community . You will get a really nasty divorce .

If you can restrain your self for 3 months lets both get Ic and if you freely choose him at the end of 3 mnths of ic and no contact i will give you an amicable divorce and not inform the medical board

I hope that after 3 mnths you can choose me . I still believe we can come back from this . I have been very naive about the whole situation but from now on i am prioritizing myself and my needs not yours “

[This message edited by siracha at 6:56 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

Don't waste too much of your time trying to be an understanding door matt. Don't accept her anger. Show her the exit and move on. Sounds like she won't change and she just does whatever she wants.

I agree wholeheartedly with DeWittle, OP, your goal is to R, but that is a distant goal which will take years to obtain.

R or D, the immediate action required is to get OUT OF INFIDELITY.

This can only be achieved by blowing up the affair and for that, kid gloves is just a way to ensure you get your fingers scorched.

That affair must be blown up, annihilated with every piece of artillery in the armory. You need to go nuclear to get rid of this cancerous thing the affair has become.

We have already listed the weapons at your disposal to do so, being NC, Exposure and divorce.

She has to know that by her having an affair, she has already lost the marriage she had, but if you choose to give her the gift of R (a new marriage), she will have to work for it and earn you back.

For now, forget about R, your marriage is dead, your family dying and there will be no chance for R with an active affair.

FIRST --- GET OUT OF INFIDELITY! Nuke that affair and take no prisoners.

As for being scared of her reaction to you going nuclear on the affair. I know your fear, but this is one of the instances where the only way to save something would be the willingness to destroy it.

You will have to weather her wrath and reactions to your actions because they are the only effective actions available to you. She chose this path and you need to react decisively to save your family.

If she leaves you because you blew up the affair, then she doesn't love you and she would have left you in any case.

YOU CAN NOT NICE THEM BACK --- EVER!

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 7:34 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

but please try to be less judgemental and assumptive

A ton of newly minted BH's come here thinking that the facts and circumstances of their WW and her A are unique, some sort of pink unicorn. They tell us not to be judgemental and assumptive.

In the end, you'll see that there is nothing special about your cheating wife. She's not a kind, empathetic person. She's a liar, an attention-seeker, with some degree of narcissism in the mix. In the end, cheaters are people who arrogate to themselves the "right" to make secret, one-sided, unilateral decisions about their marriage: vows are conditional, my half is an open marriage, I deserve this. And they lie to their spouse about it. Liars. Cheaters. Simple concepts, told over and over again.

This place has the crowd-sourced wisdom of hundreds of extramarital affairs. Each of us has lived one first hand, IRT, and many of us have counseled dozens of betrayed spouses through theirs. It becomes easy to spot patterns among cheaters. My friend, your WW's patterns are cliche, the same old story seen over and over here on SI. The "assumptive" statements by the posters here arise from that perspective. It's one of the main values a site like this has to offer, in the manner of the grizzled old veteran offering the rookie some bits of wisdom.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:58 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]

Being permissive did curry some short term favor with her . Im sure she is smiling and hugging you and thanking you for allowing her to continue sex with Dr Pervert with no consequences . But you also showed her that you cant stand up for yourself . Not being able to protect yourself is the difference Between smart nice and dumb nice .

Thinking you can “ win” a husband competition against the other man by general niceness is like thinking you can outrun U. Bolt by working on your manners . But trying to dumb nice your way out of infidelity is like training for a marathon by amputating your feet .

Your natural impulses have worked against you - i hope you are in therapy to help you find a better strategy either in the case of D or R .

Brother, this breaks my heart, the reason is I had the same mindset. You are trying to reason and negotiate with someone that is destroying you and your family. This is not time for negotiations it’s time to take action, you are in a battle to save your family. That sweet empathetic Wife is not who you thought she was. It’s time to drop the bomb and blow her little fantasy to pieces, don’t believe anything she says right now. She has justified her actions for all this time and believes it. She is now trying to sell you on the same bullshit. DON’T BUY IT!!!

You need to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. Honestly Brother your M is already lost at this point. You need a hard 180, you need to expose this without warning.

I was so much in this mindset, the 180 saved me, some of the personal changes I made will be permanent. It blew up my WW’s fantasy and popped her bubble. Please read up and implement it like right now.

Best Wishes to you.

That’s what I need to figure out through therapy, either alone or with her.

Hold off on marriage counseling. I’m not saying never do marriage counseling, now is not the time.

I like the fire analogy used here often. The marriage is a house, it may not be perfect, the roof leaks and the kitchen needs updating. But your wife just set the house on fire with you in it and had no concern for your safety. If you involve the marriage counselor at this time, he/she is going to start talking to you about updating the kitchen and fixing that leaky roof. This does not work. You have to put the fire out first, then repair the fire damage, then you can start talking about updating the kitchen.

Take a listen to these podcasts and some of the material these folks have available on-line.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=617809

They will tell you that marriage counselors who are not properly trained will actually cause more damage. Their focus is on sex addiction, but the resulting trauma that comes from it is relevant to your situation and mine even if our WWs are not sex addicts. You and I (and most here) have suffered real trauma, it hurts like hell. The marriage counselor is likely to start placing blame on you. Think about that. They are actually going to blame you for your role in causing the trauma you are suffering right now. ChamomileTea knows what she is talking about.

I believe this happened to me; the counselor didn’t help, she actually caused more damage. Just hold off on the marriage counseling for the moment to get your shit together.

I totally get where you are. In fact, if you go back to some of my original posts you will see where I said basically the same thing… "hey guys, back off please.” But I have to say as I go back and read the responses to my situation, these people were right. The people here know the cheater's handbook inside and out, they actually know the handbook better than the cheater.

But right now I’m giving her room to logic things our for herself

You’re setting yourself up for living in limbo. Please focus on getting out of infidelity. She can have all the time she needs to logic things out, but you need to focus on you. You need to be sure that boundaries are established. Problem is, the boundaries you listed are squishy. Combine this with letting her have some space to figure things our and you’ve got a cake eater who’s going to sit on the fence until she figures out what she wants…in the meantime you’re going to sit there and wonder. Where is she? Who is that on the phone? What was that last text? If I ask her is she going to get mad? A shitty way to live.

Also, don’t threaten divorce. If you’re going to just threaten, don’t say anything about it.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 12:31 PM, March 6th (Saturday)]

Just because I'm taking a step back to absorb and ponder, and perhaps even give her the slack she needs to choke herself, doesn't mean I'm blind.

Absolutely. And I am pretty sure everyone here took some time to adjust to the new reality of realizing they have a lying cheating spouse in a multitude of different ways. I like the emergency room comparison someone made, except upon discovery of infidelity, we actually do have some time to sort out how to handle the situation.

Part of working through it, whatever the result, is constructing the new vision in your mind of how this person you married that you believed to be all the great things you love, could also be so cold and callous as to inflict such damage on not only their spouse, but their children, and other peoples children. The two don't really align and it is mind blowing.

If she isn't appalled with her actions soon, then the odds for R aren't good. This constant unsettled state of staying with an unrepentant cheater is bad for your health so sooner is better, but when you decide.

I also am confused you said the wife was on board but didn't know about the sex? That doesn't make sense. Also, do you have a sense of long you plan on sticking to your original list? From what you described you meant it to be very temporary as a kind of a test.

Take care of yourself, so sorry you had to join us:-(

This is going to end terribly for you and your son. This will be another one of those “I wish I listened to you guys the first few days” threads in a month when she runs off after further degrading your dignity. You seem pretty allergic to the reality that your wife isn’t who you thought she was.

Hope your son didn’t hear you tell your wife to “make sure she uses protection if she’s going to go screw someone else!”

Just an unbelievable level of self-debasement. If I sound annoyed, it’s because I know watching you grovel to keep an unfaithful woman around is going to have a horrific impact on your son.

I’m not sure where you live where it’s safe to have a public pot luck and a subsequent party at your house?

Regardless. This is really what I’d like to say to you.

You’re approach is basically pushing the uncomfortable truth of your relationship down the road. You’re basically saying to yourself (to steal a line from “Gone With The Wind”) I’ll think about it ... tomorrow

inKarnit, your wife has broken her wedding vows. She has been intimate with another man (couple?). She has taken what is part of the marriage relationship and given it to another. That hurts. You can’t NOT address that.

So what is your end game with your approach? That she decides to stay with you out of guilt? Or the kids? That’s not a loving relationship.

Here is the hard truth of rebuilding after infidelity. The only chance you have, and it’s no where near a sure thing, to find a happy fulfilling relationship again, is if she really wants it. If she does the hard work to make you feel safe and loved and respected. ALL THREE of those things.

If she just continues a dual life with them and you, and you share her hoping it just peters out eventually, you’ll never feel safe. You’ll never feel truly desired. What will happen next time she starts feeling tingly between her thighs when a new handsome couple comes thru her gym doors? She’ll say to herself “well we survive the last one while I had my cake and ate it too, let’s give this one a try”.

No, the only way to truly make her see your value, and commit to you and only you possibly someday, is to not stand what she is doing right now.

And you don’t do that by demanding NC with the other couple. On the contrary. That would only make her pine for them even more.

No, it’s to honestly state that you are unwilling to be with her while she is still with them. And that includes thinking longingly about them while she is with you. I guarantee you it’s the only way.

You may think your way will achieve what you want. But it will only leave you realizing that she didn’t value you enough to cut it off herself immediately for you and your marriage. You’ll come to realize that the only reason, if she did end it with them eventually, was because they stopped bringing her that limerant feeling. Not because she truly valued what she had with you.

So surprisingly my recommendation is you tell her honestly that while she cares and loves and desires others more than she does you, that she need to go and explore that life completely with them.

Because you deserve someone that is ALL IN with you. With absolutely no doubt in her mind. That your vows meant that she was your one and only and you deserved and expect the same in return. That YOU DONT WANT HER AS A PARTNER if she is going to have such feelings for anyone else in the world.

And that if someday, thru intense IC (not MC) she can figure out why she thought it right to sabotage your relationship like this, and can fix what is wrong with her to make such an awful choice, that she is more than welcome to contact you and discuss possibilities going forward.

But here is the other important side of this approach. You need to make it clear that you won’t be putting your life on hold, waiting for her to make that happen. That you will be working to legally end the marriage that her infidelity has already destroyed. That it breaks your heart to do so, but there is no other possible path for you to follow and still be able to look yourself in the mirror.

Then simply wish her well, vow to be a good coparent and stop discussing this.

If she promises to change, say “great let me know when you have”. If she promises to end things with the other couple say, “great, let me know when you have made it such that neither of us will safely never ever possibly see them again and when they are eradicated from your heart and only seen by you as the force that helped you destroy our marriage”

There doesn’t need to be yelling. This can all be said calmly and should be. You can even tell her you care about her and what happens to her but that doesn’t mean you can be in an open relationship with her.

InKarnit, if I were in your shoes this is exactly what I would do and say. And then I’d ask a lawyer to start drawing up papers to be served.

I promise you that with the approach you are taking in several weeks or months you will be writing to us that you wish you had done this instead of remaining in the limbo you are still in.

What most BS’s don’t account for is that their WS is hoping that their partners good nature witll allow them to continue having the best of both worlds. And all that does is leave the BS with an empty feeling even if the WS does end it down the road with the AP. Because the BS comes to realize they never really did stand up for themselves and their marriage and their family. And now they wonder when the next time it will happen, either back with the old AP or perhaps a new one.

So I am urging you to the best of my Ability to not just “let her go” but send her right to them, tell her you don’t want her as long as someone else is in her heart, and if she comes back, don’t let her until she has proven she has done the real work necessary to make your relationship completely safe and something she truly and desperately has made the most important thing in her life.

Best of luck to you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:57 AM, March 6th (Saturday)]