SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OP - It seems you have a solid plan and know what you want in a marriage. I sincerely hope your WW will change and get to the bottom of why she allowed herself to behave in such a manner. Stay strong and don't let her tears or her claim of confusion derail your plan.

Even then, I'm going to continue to live my life without her and not wait around for her to maybe change one day.

The above is key.

Best of luck and hope the woman you love and married will return.

Hey Lurkster,

How did the talk go? Did she show any sign of being serious about R or was it more of the same?

The talk just went ok. She apologized for what she has done to me over the course of this past year, but I'm thinking she apologized for herself, not for me. She said she would like to try to work things out, but doesn't think it can be done. I told her to not contact me again unless it was about trying to R, to which I said she would have to cut all contact with OM which meant quitting her job) or relating to the impending D. Yesterday, she texted me talking about moving in with a woman she works out with regularly (who is also splitting up with her husband) so she can take one of the cats soon. I guess she's made up her mind which way she wants to go with our marriage. I thought this woman she wants to move in with had a baby pit bull/mastiff mix so I need to talk to her to see if I'm thinking of the same woman. It's already bad enough that we're splitting the cats up, but I don't want one of them to be around that terror.

Also in the text she sent me, she talked about me buying her out of the house, but I'm really thinking about selling it now. With the housing market the way it is, I'd be making the most profit from it, not to mention that I might be struggling to keep up with the monthly payments on one income. I have a friend who wants to move in with me, but even then, I don't think it would be enough. I wouldn't know how much the monthly payments would be until I pay for closing costs, taxes, the appraisal, etc, which will be thousands of dollars even when me and the STBX (first time I've typed that out... so weird) split it all. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to find out as opposed to just dropping it all, sell it, and find an apartment somewhere instead.

This is from the daddy of a black lab who is not only my favorite son but possibly my best friend too so I KNOW the pet-issue…

For your personal recovery don’t make the cats a major issue. If you two can’t reach a satisfactory conclusion the let her keep the cat or cats. It’s then no longer your role to decide if she’s keeping them in a safe environment or if she’s going to use Toby as fodder for some pit-bulls. If she’s really that evil that she will intentionally remove one or both cats to hurt you then she’s also that evil that she would use them as a tool to manipulate divorce. Let’s just hope that her intentions for the cats are true and with their welfare in mind.

For you the main issue is IMHO to get this over with.

I'm wondering if it would be worth it to find out as opposed to just dropping it all, sell it, and find an apartment somewhere instead.

When I divorced, I didn't sell the house but had to refi to pay XWW her part of the "equity". Basically I just increased my debt and mortgage payment adjusted.

I would suggest that you speak to a mortgage broker and share your situation. If you sell the house, you would be looking to buy a new place anyway, right? you can find out what your new payment would be based on refinancing your current house, that shouldn't cost you anything. And if you decide to sell and move to a new place, they will let you know what you're approved for and what you afford. You may also decide you want a change of scenery so you aren't reminded of STBXWW.

Let’s just hope that her intentions for the cats are true and with their welfare in mind.

I have no doubt in my mind that she has the cats' well-being as a priority, probably even moreso than my own at this point.

I would suggest that you speak to a mortgage broker and share your situation. If you sell the house, you would be looking to buy a new place anyway, right? you can find out what your new payment would be based on refinancing your current house, that shouldn't cost you anything.

With the housing market being crazy right now, I would not be looking to getting a new house for a while. I would likely rent for the time being. As for the refi, there would be the cost of the appraisal, the closing costs (maybe 2%-3% of the loan balance), taxes, and insurance. That would add up to thousands of dollars even with my wife and I splitting the costs (which she agreed to). My aunt worked with mortgages for 40 years before retiring last year and she recommended I sell it based on the current housing market because I'll get the most profit. From what I understand, it will take us paying for all of those things I just mentioned just to find out what my monthly payment would end up being and I'm not sure if I want to do that just to find out I can't afford it with my one income plus rent from my buddy.

[This message edited by Lurkster at 5:58 PM, Monday, December 13th]

I kept the house. It was tight but in a few years or raises I was in a better place as my monthly housing cost was staying flat and income was climbing. My D was right after the 2008 crash so it would have been better to sell and have her bear some of more of the decline in value, but I had dogs that wouldn't deal well in the transition. Make sure you check into your current rental market. Some areas the rents are running high also so it may be a tradeoff.

From what I understand, it will take us paying for all of those things I just mentioned just to find out what my monthly payment would end up being

When I refinanced they were able to tell me what the monthly payment would be without me having to pay for anything in advance. In fact, that was how they sold me on refinancing by saying it would lower the payment. If your current mortgage company can’t tell you what the new payment would be, find another! You may have to provide them with some info but they should be able to tell you.

I could see that if home values have been changing significantly in your market, you might have to get an appraisal before the full details of a refinance could be determined, but you shouldn't have to pay closing costs, etc..., before actually closing just to find out what your new payments might be. And they should be able to give you a reasonable estimate of your costs if you give them a reasonable estimate of how much you would be re-financing. It doesn't make sense that you would have to pay all of those costs before they could tell you what your payments would be (or at least giving you a close estimate!). Anyway, good luck!

From what I understand, it will take us paying for all of those things I just mentioned just to find out what my monthly payment would end up being

That doesn’t make sense. People get mortgage quotes all the time before placing offers on property. You need to understand what you can afford and you cant do that if the mortgage is some final dark secret. You should be able to get enough info online to have a good evaluation of your home to get a near-enough ballpark figure to work from. If you cautiously always err to the side of caution, you should be able to figure out what to do.
Cautiously err to the side of caution = if you think the closing cost is between 2-3% use 3%, if you think the payment could be 480 use 500. It’s my experience that it’s always nicer to find an extra bill in my wallet than see it’s empty.

I think selling might make recovery easier. You won’t have the constant reminder of your married life around you. However keep in mind that the rise in property value has also impacted the rental market. If you do sell and can put some money aside I would seriously consider renting something smallish and cheap with the goal of buying your own place in 12-24 months.

I just want to say, no matter what you do with the house, you are taking the right path.

When she says things like "what would it take to try to rebuild and reconcile?" I recommend you simply respond with "I no longer trust you, no matter what you say. It will take years for me to heal from what you have done and regain that trust. If you are interested in trying, with no guarantees, you can do so after we legally end the marriage your choice of infidelity destroyed. It’s as simple as that. For now I wish you well and am committed to working with you to reach an amicable agreement in our divorce."

Truth is, she needs to be the one to drive any rebuilding. Don’t hold your breath. So far she has not shown she has it in her. So don’t even think about it. If she somehow gains the strength and knowledge as to what she should do, great, but you don’t control that in anyway so don’t waste any energy thinking about it.

I wish you well no matter how many cats you end up with.

Oh and fwiw, I vote sell the house and move on w a fresh start.

Oh and fwiw, I vote sell the house and move on w a fresh start.

I totally agree. And if you are OK with renting for a while so that the market can settle, even better.

Regarding the house: You need to know the current value of your house in order to be able to determine what her share of the equity is. This should be the only out of pocket expense, for now. It's usually 300 - 400 dollars depending on the size of your house.

You can get a ballpark number by checking out Zillow and/or talking to a local realtor. Many of them will do a market analysis for free (they literally push a button on a program) because they hope you'll sign with them if you decide to sell. Neither of these options are THE NUMBER, only an appraiser can do that, but a ballpark that can help you figure this out.

Thank you all for the suggestions on the house. I'll look into all options I have available. I'm sure not matter decision I make with it, it will be a good one.

As for my wife, she continues to disrespect me. Now, she said she was on the fence on whether or not she wanted to work on our marriage, but because I've been very clear that I think she's basically a horrible person - that I don't respect her, that I think she doesn't respect me, that she isn't loyal, has no character or integrity, etc, it's making her get off of that fence by deciding to move on without me. She continues by saying that she doesn't see a point in making the effort to fix things with someone who feels that way about her, that you should only put in effort when you believe someone can see the best in you. She concludes with saying that because I'm soooo excited to be dating again, then she needs to move on, too. When I said that to her, what I meant was I will be just fine if she decides not to want to fix things and I may need to clarify that, but at the same time, why do I still care about what she things?

So, that's where we stand now. Sounds like she's saying it's my fault she doesn't want to try to work on things? I get the feeling she was never really on a fence to begin with.

[This message edited by Lurkster at 7:47 PM, Wednesday, December 15th]

So, that's where we stand now. Sounds like she's saying it's my fault she doesn't want to try to work on things? I get the feeling she was never really on a fence to begin with.

Stop engaging with her. You’re not going to convince her that she has any responsibility beyond vague allusions of her being sorry that you got hurt. Somehow. By someone who is definitely not her.

She did apologize for distancing herself, not communicating, and for "hanging out" with the coworker.

I can't not engage with her if we continue having this amicable divorce with no lawyers. I'll do my best, but FUCK it's so hard!

Part of me still wants to work on the marriage when she says she is/was on the fence about it. I should just choke myself after typing that, right?

[This message edited by Lurkster at 8:57 PM, Wednesday, December 15th]

but because I've been very clear that I think she's basically a horrible person - that I don't respect her, that I think she doesn't respect me, that she isn't loyal, has no character or integrity, etc,

Actually, she is right about your thoughts on her. But the problem is that those are all true.

I get the feeling she was never really on a fence to begin with.

Exactly.
She already has crossed to the other side of the fence. She never had any intention of fixing things, she just wants to make you look like the villain of the story.
Don't engage with her and move on. Don't even say things that imply that you'll consider R if she does the right things, she is far far away from that.

I'd suggest doing your very best to not get pulled into your WW's crazymaking. She will say all sorts of crazy contradictory things, either to try to persuade you or as some sort of propaganda campaign to make herself look better or something.

She will apologize and say this is her fault in the hopes of getting you back, and then the next day she will say that you are to blame for the marriage dissolving. Yeah, that time in 2018 when you brought home almond milk when she wanted soy. Likewise to saying 'can't we please try again' and then the next saying she is "confused" and doesn't know if she even wants marriage.

You have been seemingly unimpressed with her attempts to get you to be her Plan B while she attempts to figure herself out or something. So she is now saying that she decided it isn't worth trying to repair things with you, as her way to try to save face from you being the one to decide to move on. Very predictable.

Block her out. You will drive yourself insane trying to reason with her.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:48 PM, Wednesday, December 15th]

This lady is playing you dude. Look on the JFO thread, there is another guy on there thinking the same way you are.

If your WW was absolutely remorseful and down for you, she won't be sitting on the proverbial fence. She would be jumping through hoops and doing everything she can to earn your trust back. What she wants you to say and do is basically take her back, eat the shit sandwich and take half the blame for her cheating.

She doesnt want to do the hard work to get you out of infidelity and make you feel safe. She wants you to rugsweep her affair and make it all happy and easy for her so that she doesnt have to see herself as a worthless cheating WW. She wants no part of that responsibility.

Do not entertain her bullshit any longer. You've already told her what she needs to do. You will NOT consider any less, b/c YOU deserve much more. Its her LOSS, remember that. HER LOSS, not yours.

Part of me still wants to work on the marriage when she says she is/was on the fence about it.

She threw you this little hope kibble and you jumped. Next time, learn not to jump or give it any consideration. If she is worthy, she will be working with her actions and words to make sure you're safe and you are healing from the damage she caused. Look out for these little HOPE Kibbles dude, that's all it is, and it keeps you in limbo for longer. Stop HOPING and start moving forward with your life. If she ever fixes her shit, she can join you, until then, focus on your D.

continue having this amicable divorce with no lawyers

I think many would say this is not a good idea. Very few end up in a good spot without an attorney, your wife has already shown you she is not a nice person and can't be trusted.