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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 4

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Cassandrae posted 9/24/2020 11:03 AM

gmc94 - it may be lovebombing but I don't think so - it's not like I'm being drowned in gifts or attention. Just stepped back and now he's doing the initiating.

Last week we had several conversations. In one I asked him to make a commitment to me for a specific amount of time to work on our marriage, "to repair the damage you (he) have caused." And I outlined the consequences for being unwilling to do so (myself and the children leaving for a week and/or longer should he still be unwilling). I think it's only the third time in our entire marriage where I've done something like that - am much more the submissive type. I was shaking the whole time. He was furious. "I gave you 15 years to work out your issues and you're giving me 4 days?" I walked out of the house and took a walk (he's usually the one who decides when conversations are done. yeah I know - our dynamic has been seriously flipped from the beginning. working on it.).

When I came back we had another conversation. "You are as far away from me as you can get physically. You are disgusted with me." Me: "No. I'm angry. I'm very hurt and very angry and don't trust you right now with my heart." He shared his plan for deciding what he wants to do, for good (not for a timed amount) before the holidays. Also shared that he wants to stay, logically it's the right decision, he's just stuck right now. He's ASD plan disruption/routine disruption is a real thing. Not an excuse.

Told me he's struggling to redefine himself after what he did (total 180 of his self perceived moral bedrock), and who he wants to be. He also complimented me on being assertive. I told him about one of my triggers. He handled it immediately. Over the course of this whole debacle every time I have come to him and bluntly communicated an issue he's acted decisively to address it... aside from the six months of carrying on the affair post discovery. That one I'm still trying to wrap my head around.

We ended our last conversation with him remarking "It really boils down to two choices: hard work now for the potential of a happy life later, or easier time now with not much potential for the future."

Me: "Yup. I'm not afraid of hard anymore. I used to be. Not now."

gmc94 posted 9/24/2020 13:49 PM

((((Throwaway999)))) I've followed your story and you are amazing and were far more generous to your WH through his final illness than I think I could have been. You processed and owned those choices based upon the best you knew at the time - and for your kids. That's really inspiring and I truly believe that as you heal from all of it, you will be empowered.

I am questioning everything now about who I am. I have good friends and family who say nice things about me, but itís hard to believe them after you self esteem and faith in life has been shot to hell.
While my WH lived, I do believe that his suicide attempt kind of "derailed" my own healing.... as your WH's terminal illness did for yours. That sucks, but it's ok to give yourself some time and compassion for how hard it's been, and how confusing your shared history is.

How do you cope and get through? Does IC really help? I have been, but she never really told me anything I didnít already know.....How do you get back to feeling good about yourself?
I think IC can help. May not be "necessary" for everyone, but it can help (like adding some Bouquet Garni to a soup- not necessary, but can improve the flavor).

I know I'm like a broken damn record around here, but IME, finding someone that specializes in TRAUMA has been the key for me. in the past, I always wanted IC who were my contemporaries or I felt had some "life experience" (I was never one to take advice from younger folks - a silly view I've since come to see VERY differently). But after seeing several 'older' IC post dday with little luck (with one exception, but she retired), I went for younger. And I couldn't be happier about it. Of course, personality plays a big role, but I think the most helpful piece is that her trauma training is RECENT and includes knowledge of all sorts of studies and other things learned about trauma in the past 20 years.

As I started to do my own trauma "homework", my mind was really blown away by how much current research has changed our views on trauma, on adverse childhood experiences (ACEs), of how many of us are routinely diagnosed with symptoms (depression, ADD, etc) that are often more akin to coping mechanisms for TRAUMA. E.G., I've struggled with depression off & on for years. Taken AD, gone to IC, etc. It was only after dday and learning about my relational betrayal trauma that I began to see that past depressive episodes were likely a response to various situational things in my life that were triggers to past/childhood trauma. Gaining an understanding of this has significantly changed my outlook. I still struggle, but I am getting better AND am becoming a rock star in my ability to navigate/manage my own feelings and reactions to crummy things that just happen in life (ok, maybe not full on "rock star", but I got the Karaoke version down pretty doggone good )

So- all of my story to say that a compassionate IC that has solid trauma education & experience can be a game changer. IMO, the best ICs are someone that can call you out on your own rationalizations, rather than give "advice", or tell you what you already know. My IC routinely (and very compassionately) speaks her mind about the ways in which my brain wiring "goes to" certain places... basically provides a different set of rose-colored glasses through which I can try and view things. It can be really inspiring for me.

I absolutely believe one's "faith in life" can be restored, despite the despicable behavior of our WS, and even despite ANOTHER dday (which I suspect you already had inklings about, but those inklings aren't the same as the shock of actual knowledge... and I'm so so so sorry those inklings proved to be accurate - huge hugs Throwaway).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:51 PM, September 24th, 2020 (Thursday)]

gmc94 posted 9/24/2020 15:56 PM

In case ChaOs didn't see this in the Fun & Games thread.....

Thanks for all the wisdom you've given me and countless others.
I appreciate you and hope you have a wOnderful day

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:57 PM, September 24th, 2020 (Thursday)]

Blackheart11419 posted 9/24/2020 16:45 PM

I was driving home and the thought of the affair and how it will be a year in Nov. And remembering how he told me and of them of having sex for the last time. Has anyone else felt like this.

Throwaway999 posted 9/24/2020 17:29 PM

I am yet to have a minute when I am not thinking about his affairs...my biggest DDay was almost a year ago. And multiple ones since then.

I hear you and it sucks. Try to distract yourself and do something just for you...a bit of self care helps. Paint your nails, pour a glass of wine or go shopping and buy yourself something pretty.

gmc94 posted 9/24/2020 18:02 PM

all I can say about thinking about the cheating is that for me, it's still there pretty much all the time.

BUT

Those thoughts have moved to the back of my mind - they are like background music vs screaming in my head all the time.

LadyG posted 9/25/2020 04:21 AM

Blackheart11419 my dumbass STBXWH met up with exSlutAP exactly a year ago To the day to discuss the fact that I am allowing WH to visit me at my apartment the following day. (September 26. 32 years since the day we married)

Stupid dumbass pleaded with me that Ďthey didnít have sex that dayí.

I really didnít care. I told the dumbass that we were definitely over. I am still trying to Divorce his greedy nasty ass a year on.

If I could go back 12 months, I would have invited our children over to Witness the night. WH lied and lied and lied.

Throwaway999 posted 9/25/2020 05:25 AM

LadyG - I have followed your posts...of course you already know you ExWH is a complete asshole narcissist . And doesnít deserve you. I hope you can get him out of your life and stay safe.

We all wish we could go back in time and change our reactions or actions....I know I do. I would have kicked him out after the first time I caught him texting with AP1....it would have saved me 10 years and a whole lot of heartache. Plan something nice for yourself tomorrow.

Blackheart11419 posted 9/25/2020 08:28 AM

Throwaway999 I would love a glass of wine but I am currently 28 weeks pregnant. We didnt except this to happen which made R even more difficult to do because all we talk about now is what we need to do for our son.

gmc94 I get that trust me it used to be screaming voices in my head all the time but once I got pregnant back in March. Those voices started to become a distant vs screaming. I haven't thought of the Affair since March but it has been on my mind recently.

LadyG I did confront the OW but she lied and told me that they never had sex even though my H told me everything. She got her whole family to believe her over me that they never had sex. Her grandparents (she lives with them) to this day still dont think they had sex but yet when they asked my H what happen between the OW and him and he even told them that he had sex with their granddaughter and they still dont believe. He did lie about the affair till we were in MC thats when the affair came out and honestly I'm glad it did because he was making me feel paranoid about him going over to her house when I knew something wasnt right. A gut feeling.


er

Outoflove2020 posted 9/25/2020 09:22 AM

Hey all, it's been a while since I've posted. Life has been moving along, now well over 3 months of NC. I still have down days, but life is mostly better.

But the last few days have been really tough. I have been starting to think of my future, whether I want to stay in the US or not (I have two countries of citizenship, both of which would be viable options for me) and my absolutely gut instinct, initial reaction when starting to think about that was "well, that would mean it's really over with xWBF and that I would never see him or his kids again". The thought that I would never see him or the kids again devastated me. I think there is a part deep in my subconscious that still - for some unknown reason - thinks we will be together again.

I've been doing so well, I really have. I've been seeing friends, doing more exercise, planning trips etc. Work has been busy, I've been getting a lot of recognition from senior leadership for the work that I have been doing. Objectively, I'm in a pretty good spot.

But this....well, it shook me. My conscious thinking is that I don't want anything to do with him. In fact, as some of you may remember, I'm actually coordinating visits with his kids via his ex wife just so I don't have to be in any contact with him.

But Wednesday night, I cried my heart out at the thought of never seeing him again if I leave the US. I haven't cried - sobbed - like that in WEEKS. And that feeling has not left me. I just feel so sad. Sad. Sad. Sad. I'm doing self care things - went and got a mani / pedi, continuing to steer clear of booze, exercising, catching up with friends - but I can't seem to bring myself out of this deep sadness.

gmc94 posted 9/25/2020 10:15 AM

Oh OOL - so sorry a curveball got ya! It happens.

May sound strange, but I think that having those deep sobbing cries is healthy. Purges crap from our bodies.

Grief is such a strange thing IMO. It's not linear and it can come grab us when we least expect it. Hugs, and keep up the self compassion & care!

Blackheart11419 posted 9/26/2020 16:44 PM

So last night I brought up the affair to my H and I asked some questions and if I never tricked him he would still continued with the affair. He told me that he wouldn't have ended it with the OW even though I got pregnant in March. It kind of hurts that he wouldn't have ended things and would have continue lying to me about it. I'm starting to think that R will never happen because he still doesn't regret the affair.

Throwaway999 posted 9/27/2020 07:40 AM

Blackheart - my apologies...I had not read your back story when I responded to you so I didnít realize you are expecting. Congrats! A new baby brings so much joy...but also a lot of sleepless nights are in your future. Lol.

I think for me one the of toughest things about infidelity is learning to accept who our husbands are. I know you are trying for R. But please know when your WH shows you who he is...believe it. He got caught and that is why the A ended...as much as that hurts, you have to accept it. My WH never ended his affairs ďfor meĒ either.

After I read your posts, a couple of things struck me...you mentioned MC and some therapy. My big Dday was really close to yours. So this is all fairly recent for you, you are expecting so you have a huge amount of things on your plate. I firmly believe that cheating is not a marriage problem, itís a character problem.

And in my opinion, MC should be kept on the back burner until after your husband has IC. MC tends to try to find issues in our marriage, but your marriage isnít the issue...your WH is the issue. He obviously grew up in a messed up home...not an excuse for his behaviour. He needs to face his ďwhysĒ. He needs to step up and make active strides to change and become a safe partner for you and your baby.

Is your husband in IC? What is he doing to make you feel safe again?

As you know from SI...there is a huge difference between regret of getting caught and true remorse. There have been excellent posts here in SI about what true remorse looks like. Search for them yourself and print them off for him...but donít tell him about this site. Maybe keep it a safe place for you.

Look at your husbands actions...is he actively looking at becoming a better person. Is he booking his own IC, appointments (if he is going), is he actively seeking out books to read, researching on the internet etc. IMO...until he takes actions to make you feel safe...you canít move forward in R.

BlackRaven posted 9/27/2020 08:02 AM

How do you cope and get through? Does IC really help? I have been, but she never really told me anything I didnít already know.

Throwaway999 - IC can help very much, but it depends on the expertise of the counselor. You need someone who specializes in Betrayal Trauma.

Iím still in the thick of things myself, but I had been seeing a wonderful IC - so wonderful in fact that as things unfolded, she told me that she could help with Trauma, but not betrayal trauma, which can cause a form of complex PTSD in the BS.

I found an IC who pretty much only does betrayal trauma and in 2 appointments Iím doing so much better. You have been through hell. Please do not try to cope with this on your own. And donít delay. The longer you are in this traumatic state the more it takes root.

There are also 12 step meetings through SAL Lifeline that come highly recommended.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 12:27 PM, September 27th (Sunday)]

Throwaway999 posted 9/27/2020 08:16 AM

BlackRaven....Thanks for you response. My current IC says she specializes in Emdr and trauma, but so far she hasnít given me any insight that is more than what I read here or my friends have told me or that I already know in my heart.

I have a telephone appointment with her on Wednesday...my last IC was before my husband passed. I now have more trauma from my latest discovery of his LTA with his ex wife...and trauma from now knowing he likely played a part in her mental state that led to her suicide. It breaks my heart that my husband did this to her husband and family without a second thought.

I am going to use this weeks appointment to gauge whether I need to look elsewhere for a new IC.

I so very much want to be done with all of this, but you canít just wipe out 25 years of being with someone. I need to deal with my grief from his betrayal as I full on know that I am not grieving his death at all. I feel 100% indifferent towards him dying...itís not bothering me at all...which makes me worry about myself. I grieved his death for the first 2 weeks and now I feel nothing but relief. When I face it (and type it out here)...I realize it makes me feel super guilty. Who doesn't grieve their husband? Or is my reaction normal for my circumstances...I truly have no idea.

Infidelity sucks and itís so messed up.

BlackRaven posted 9/27/2020 12:44 PM

Throwaway999

My current IC says she specializes in Emdr and trauma,

Sounds like you know in your gut this isn't working. My former IC used to work with burn victims. Trauma for sure, but not Betrayal Trauma. What was recommended to me was to look for someone through The International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals.

I've spoken to a few, and my sense is that they are so keenly aware of how fragile we are that they call back quickly and promptly suggest someone else if they aren't taking new patients. One spent 30 minutes on the phone just talking to me. When she asked if I was eating and I said no, she told me to just drink Boost, that I didn't need to force myself to eat as long as I had healthy calories coming in. Another followed up to make sure I'd found someone.

I think EMDR might be in the cards down the road, but right now she's focusing on stabilizing me so that I don't descend into PTSD.

I

t breaks my heart that my husband did this to her husband and family without a second thought.

You can't know what was going on in her mind or her marriage. She had choices. She had a choice to be involved in an affair with your WH. A choice to seek a divorce. (She'd gone through that once so it wasn't like her religion wouldn't allow it.) A choice to seek treatment for depression. And you are in no way responsible for your WH's actions or his choices. He too had a disease.

Good luck.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 12:47 PM, September 27th (Sunday)]

Blackheart11419 posted 9/27/2020 18:56 PM

Throwaway999 thats OK.

I have accepted my husband for who he is and what kind of personality he has. His personality is the reason I fell in love with him because he has a flirty personality.

He did go through IC before we did MC and the IC wasn't helping him figure things out because he wouldn't talk about things. I am however still in IC mainly now because I am going to be a new mom and my anxiety is going up every day it gets closer to my due date (DEC. 2020).

I agree with you cheating is a character problem and not a marriage problem. I do wonder though did I chase him away or was I horrible to him to make him cheat?

All my H does is go to work and come home and do things around the house. He doesn't really hang out with friends or talk to anyone and I know its because of me. He knows I don't trust him with anyone. (That is something I need to work on Trusting him).

He has no idea about this site or that I'm even on it.

He isn't actively reading or researching anything he can do to help R and as for the baby he hasn't read any of the reading materials that we have and I wish he would put a little effort into researching how to R and for the baby.

Throwaway999 posted 9/27/2020 23:10 PM

Blackheart

I agree with you cheating is a character problem and not a marriage problem. I do wonder though did I chase him away or was I horrible to him to make him cheat?

Itís taken me almost a year to finally get this...nothing you said or did or didnít do made him cheat. I have beaten myself up thinking I am some awful person and thatís why my WH cheated. Heck, I have even asked my kids and friends if I am horrible. But you see...itís the character issue again. Their cheating truly isnít about us. Itís about them. They are broken inside. Something allowed our husbands to go against their moral compass. I promise you that you are not horrible and 1000% nothing you did made him cheat.

It just simply not your fault. Period. Itís him.

He knows I don't trust him with anyone. (That is something I need to work on Trusting him).

Trust is not something you have to work on...he needs to earn it. He has to be the one to work on it. Not you. Right now he doesnít deserve your trust...itís likely too soon. Itís great that he comes home and helps you around the house. But true trust is earned and it will take a very long time and effort for him to earn it back.

Do you think he would go back to IC? The baby is coming and itís going to be hard...being a new parent is the best thing in the world but it is also tough . And R canít only be on your shoulders...he should be doing most of the work. Maybe his old IC wasnít the right fit...I am struggling with the same thing for me.

Sending you a hug...hang in there.

EllieKMAS posted 9/28/2020 10:09 AM

BH1149

I agree with you cheating is a character problem and not a marriage problem. I do wonder though did I chase him away or was I horrible to him to make him cheat?
No. Nyet, Nein, Non, and otherwise hell to the NAW girl. You didn't do or say anything to 'make him cheat'. He did that allllll on his own.
All my H does is go to work and come home and do things around the house. He doesn't really hang out with friends or talk to anyone and I know its because of me. He knows I don't trust him with anyone. (That is something I need to work on Trusting him).
nope again - he needs to earn that trust back. You are under no obligation to trust him right now at all. And housework is the bare minimum of what he should be doing.
He has no idea about this site or that I'm even on it.
This is good I think. Keep SI as your safe space.
He isn't actively reading or researching anything he can do to help R and as for the baby he hasn't read any of the reading materials that we have and I wish he would put a little effort into researching how to R and for the baby.
So... what IS he doing to help you and the M recover then?

OOL - I am SO glad you're doing better! Those sad days will still get you every now and then though. I am rollin up on 2 years since dday1 and I still have them occasionally too. I think it is just little pockets of crap that spill out every now and then. For right now, you don't have to make any decisions about all that. Just focus on your day to day. Focus on your healing. When the time is right for that decision, you really will just KNOW what is right for you.

LadyG posted 9/28/2020 17:18 PM

I have no idea why I woke up crying today.

I want to call STBXWH and scream at him so badly.

I want the Divorce to be final. Fuck the financials.

Today the only thing getting me through is my dog. I have to get her to the vet again.

I am so done with this fucking life. I am not supposed to even be here.

I have to get my Will finished and send it to my lawyer and my children.

I still have to deal with Police for the crimes WH has committed against me.

On top of that my dog has diabetes. Sheís high maintenance but I am the only one who can care for her.

Itís been 6 months of sheer hell In Covid lockdown.

I have to message STBXWH. I will serve him With the Divorce Papers. Itís the only way he will, get moving on accepting that this is do or die for me. I have told him several times that thereís no way in Hell that I want to die still being married to him. I want this done now!

Sorry for the rant and vent, but I really didnít want to wake up today. But my dog needs me 🙏🏼

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