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Bible reminders

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Bigger posted 8/24/2020 03:50 AM

I also doubt the Bible is gone.
A key factor in reconciliation is removing all souvenirs. Removing anything that gives a positive emotion towards the infidelity or the OP. Right now I have a feeling that Bible with itís marked passages is the religious equivalent of a bronze cast of the Eifel tower as a reminder of a romantic vacation in Paris.

The more I think of it the more I like my idea:
Take the Bible and go through the passages she marked with OM initials and ask how they serve to remind her of the failures of the marriage. If possible do this with a religiously trained person such as your priest of a faith-based MC.
I have a feeling that once she has had to explain how she reads these verse and how they really donít reflect on her shortcomings then SHE will be the one that wants to get rid of that Bible. Only then it will finally serve a purpose: Although positive reminders of the infidelity hinder reconciliation then negative reminders can actually help R and help self-growth.

Buster123 posted 8/24/2020 11:43 AM

Buster123...I havenít looked for it but t Iím guessing itís buried in a drawer either in her office or somewhere else in the house. Baby steps. Itís not visible to me, itís not I my face, and to my knowledge she is not using it in her current Bible study. It ainít see it yet ver again, it will vanish.
The thing is you simply don't know, at this point, after so long, and especially after the other incident you should require much more than just "baby steps", this should be a very simple task, don't be afraid to tell her you want it gone FOREVER, she offered to "destroy it" so why not do just that ?, if it is still in her possession in the house or her office then she really has NOT done much if anything at all. This is definitely another test for you to see with actions and not just words, how much she really values your needs now, make sure you watch it being destroyed.

Westway posted 8/24/2020 14:42 PM

So the Bible isn't gone or destroyed... it has just been buried, like all the other truths your WW has buried over the years.

You confront, she pushes back, and you fold like a cheap tent. Wow.

Sorry friend, I cannot give you any encouragement. It would be wasted I'm afraid. There is an old saying that compromise is the language of the Devil, and I think I am starting to believe that more and more.

Thumos posted 8/24/2020 14:49 PM

only 30 notations in over 1000 pages.

You realize this is classic minimization right? 30 notations is A LOT in any book, including and especially the very same Book that warns repeatedly against adultery.

Robert22205https posted 8/24/2020 17:17 PM

During my wifeís affair, she noted over 30 times in her Bible, verses that she read and then attributed to her AP. Prayers for him, verses that reflected their love, their sin, their passion, their future, their secret life.

Did she happen to highlight sections of the bible that she thought tolerated adultery?

Interesting that she continued to study/read her bible during the affair - but didn't stop.

The OM dumped her. She did not voluntarily confess (you caught her), she planned to leave you and take the kids, she refused to provide a timeline, she's never been exposed to friends & family, over the years you discovered she saved souvenirs, and at least once 5 years ago she was going to send him a birthday card.

I'm sorry but IMO, their 'secret life' still exists in her head. She sees them as star crossed lovers.

IMO their secret life ends when you expose her to your adult children. You've protected her secret life and carried the weight of her adultery alone long enough - share it with her children.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:18 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

BluerThanBlue posted 8/25/2020 07:43 AM

She will never do anything proactively to fix the damage sheís done.

Niceguy25 posted 8/25/2020 09:07 AM

Bluerthanblue....thatís a true statement. She would prefer I bury it and move on. We paid off our home, car and all debt recently and she talks about forgetting the past and looking forward to our future in retirement. And daily she asks for forgiveness for this most recent outburst when I confronted her and for the Bible being used. I have not said ďI forgive youĒ and donít know that I will any time soon. For me this marriage is a forever deal. From our Solemn Engagement in the Church, to our Papal Blessing from Rome, to our vows to remain together ďtill death do us part,Ē Itís a lifelong commitment like Hosea and Job, my promise remains to this marriage. If she decides to quit, itís on her. We have a comfortable life and what HE means to her is beyond my understanding. Did I roll over or am I too nice, probably, but all in the name of love for the only woman I have ever loved. Sometimes life makes no sense but I believe my faithfulness and commitment must be worth something. Iíll shut up now. Thanks everyone who has commented. Your wisdom and experiences are priceless gifts for a troubled heart.

Buster123 posted 8/25/2020 15:55 PM

Sometimes life makes no sense but I believe my faithfulness and commitment must be worth something. Iíll shut up now. Thanks everyone who has commented. Your wisdom and experiences are priceless gifts for a troubled heart.
Not to her, you had the same faithfulness and commitment before she cheated too, so she has already proven to you that those things don't mean much to her, at least not as much or enough to be proactive and do the necessary things to help you heal, this woman was not that long ago still trying to send birthday cards to her AP and only stopped because you caught her, for many people that alone would have been the end.

Niceguy25 posted 8/28/2020 18:17 PM

I have tried to position myself so that if it does come to leaving, then itís financially possible. This week we made steps to pay off my car, our home and all credit debt. This has long been a thorn in our marriage, so being debt free should be interesting.

Stinger posted 8/28/2020 18:42 PM

Wait, she recently was sending the guy Birthday cards??? What is wrong with this person? No empathy, for starters. Is she mentally impaired?? Seriously. Something is off with this person.

jb3199 posted 8/29/2020 10:42 AM

Ok, hereís the update. I confronted her one last time about her Bible. It blew up in a big argument resulting in her stating she would burn it, that the references to him were not at this point positive memories, but reminders of her failure to our marriage and, as I Had pointed out, only 30 notations in over 1000 pages. I then pointed out that in 48 years together thereís not one notation with my initials vs 30 with his in 3 years together. That stunned her. I told her I understood the Bible covers 55+ years of her life, but for me is a trigger every time I see her use it. I offered her a new Bible of her choosing if she would NEVER use the old one in my presence again. She agreed and It has disappeared. New bible is ordered. She then apologized to me.

I think that a HUGE part of this entire situation was exacerbated by communication issues. We could go off on a hundred different tangents, but the bottom line is there is a material object which happens to be a big trigger. Likewise, the BS knows that this is a special material item OTHER THAN AFFAIR RELATED, and wouldn't expected to be thrown in the trash. But it should be addressed. It doesn't need to be front and center.

If the above conversation happened when the BS first recognized the trigger, IN THE DEPTH THAT WAS EXPLAINED ABOVE, there would have been no misunderstandings about how important this issue was/is. How the WS would have reacted, I don't know, but there would be no ambiguity.

Now they can move on to other to other topics, good and bad.....

Niceguy25 posted 8/31/2020 21:55 PM

JB3199, I donít think there was any misunderstanding as to my feelings about the Bible, I think she thought it would eventually blow over and weíd just move on. It was ďgoneĒ for about two years and just recently resurfaced. And yes, there is allot of personal history beyond her affair noted in the pages. I thought I had made my feelings about it clear before, but this time there can be no doubt. I know where itís hidden and I may just white it out myself. The problem being that the ďwhite outĒ is just as much a reminder as his initials are. This time next week, our home, my car and all shared debt will be paid off and we will be debt free and ready to retire. That allows for new beginnings for both of us and will allow us to see our futures more clearly. I want honest and sincere reconciliation.

RocketRaccoon posted 9/1/2020 00:09 AM

I thought I had made my feelings about it clear before, but this time there can be no doubt.

Your WW does not really care about your feelings on this. Her feelings will trump yours any day, so all she does is hides it (like the birthday card), hopes you will forget about it, then slowly (some might say insidiously) bring it back into your lives.

She gets what she wants in the end.


I know where itís hidden and I may just white it out myself. The problem being that the ďwhite outĒ is just as much a reminder as his initials are.

And you do know that she will then hold it against you, right? She will then blame you for destroying HER property.

NG25, I say this gently, your WW is still deep in wayward mode of thinking, as it is all self-absorbed. Remorse is when she can throw away any material thing (on her own free will) because she recognises that it hurts YOU.

As for your mode of thinking, you are still in KISA mode, and being kinda passive aggressive about it (the whiting out shit). You seem to be still confused as to what you want, or you know what you want, but cannot bring yourself to communicate it to your WW.

DIFM posted 9/1/2020 06:24 AM

.....there would have been no misunderstandings about how important this issue was/is. How the WS would have reacted, I don't know, but there would be no ambiguity.

When a WS is not able to inherently understand and react to the BS pain and trauma that would be associated with keeping a bible with notes of deep emotion and passion for their lover, any communication strategies and techniques and timing by the BS will matter little.

He communicated early and later and she is still in wayward mindset mode about it. Unless and until a wayward embraces and owns their brokeness, and becomes committed to sincere demonstrations of remorse and empathy, communication is the least of the problems for a couple still in wayward mode.

jb3199 posted 9/1/2020 07:36 AM

Unless and until a wayward embraces and owns their brokeness, and becomes committed to sincere demonstrations of remorse and empathy, communication is the least of the problems for a couple still in wayward mode.

If Niceguy was walking away from this relationship, I could agree. But not if he hopes to reconcile. I also agree that she lacks real empathy, which is all the more reason that he needs to crystal clear about something that hurts him this much. It was gone for two years, and then resurfaces. You, I and almost everyone here know that it is not the thousand markings in that Bible; it is the 30 or so that are specifically about the AP.

Niceguy thought he made it clear last time; this time there is no doubt. Should he have to walk his WW step-by-step through what she should and shouldn't do? Of course not. But if his hopes are to reconcile, I can't see where clear communication isn't important.

Westway posted 9/1/2020 10:36 AM

Itís a lifelong commitment like Hosea and Job

fellow Catholic here.

First of all, I asked my Pastor about Hosea. Here is what he told me: Hosea was commanded by God to marry a prostitute. He did not choose his wife. God commanded Hosea to marry her so that Hosea could be a living example of God's enduring love for the Israelites who were constantly turning away from God and engaging in idolatry and sin.


"Go, take to yourself a wife of whoredom and have children of whoredom, for the land commits great whoredom by forsaking the LordíĒ (Hosea 1:2).

You were not commanded to marry your wife. You were not sanctioned by God to be a walking PowerPoint presentation about God's love for the church. So Hosea's story does not apply to you.

As for Job, Job's wife complained and whined, and she even said he should "curse God and die", because of all the bad fortune being heaped upon him, but she never cheated on him or outright betrayed him. So that story does not apply to you.

I am divorcing my WW , and once the D is settled I will be going through the Church annulment process. I'm not worried about losing my soul or going to hell for annulling a marriage destroyed by adultery.

[This message edited by Westway at 10:38 AM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

Niceguy25 posted 9/3/2020 12:38 PM

Westway, thanks. I went to talk to my Pastor as well and was told that Grace and charity would see me through this. That my forgiving her ďagainĒ was a part of the Sacrament I entered into in marriage, and that until I had forgiven ď70x7Ē according to scripture, there is still hope. I hear everyone saying so many different things and confusion reigns. At 70, I feel the love I do experience is greater than no love at all, and then someone says 70 is the new 50 and sex and love abounds for single men my age. Any wonder the decision to leave is difficult. I trusted, rebuilt and recovered once, and inspite of a second attempt to make contact with him, I do still love this woman. Quite honestly, death might be a welcome release but I would never consider that option. Itís a new day and my love has always been unconditional. I guess Iím the fool. Thanks for your thoughts and good luck with your new life.

Butforthegrace posted 9/3/2020 13:32 PM

But if his hopes are to reconcile,

I think we can all agree that Niceguy's odds of R, with a WW who gets empathy and contributes to his healing, are basically zero percent at this stage. His options are limited to the same dialectic facing any BH with an unremorseful, unrepentant WW: white knuckle it till death do they part, or walk. The only difference in the case of Niceguy is that the emotional pattern of denial in his WW has been in place for such a long term. I don't think there is any realistic hope she will ever waver from the path she has steadfastly trod this many years.

Seneca posted 9/3/2020 14:42 PM

Am I correct in remembering from this long thread that NiceGuys wife had and affair THIRTY YEARS AGO and that NiceGuy discovered her attempt to contact him TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO?

Confused in reading much of this because some of NiceGuys comments sound like this is all very fresh as well as the comments of others.

Sorry if Iíve missed something but what is the most recent D day?

Again, this may be in there somewhere, Iím dense sometimes and clueless at other times but sometimes like a broken clock: right a couple of times a day!

The1stWife posted 9/3/2020 15:34 PM

The fact is even if the Bible is gone permanently she still has her memories burned into her head.

Her behavior clearly reflects she looks upon her affair with fond memories ó sad to say.

The Bible is just the physical or tangible evidence. The thoughts in her head are completely locked away from the BS.

That birthday card evidence shows her true thoughts.

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