"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Tinnat posted 7/20/2020 15:13 PM

I’m here to ask a question to those who have successfully reconciled.

Did your WS who was still in the affair say that they did not desire you, and did this change as time went on and you worked together?

I ask since the main reason H is continuing to want his AP is because he says that he finds me attractive but does not desire me, and therefore does not want a life without that.

Thumos posted 7/20/2020 15:21 PM

One thing my WW did right was to say and show that she physically desired me after D-Day.

That never changed (altho she also said the OM had made her feel emotionally during the affair like no man had, ever). During the affair her desire for me was also clear.

I'm not sure how I could have possibly surmounted my WW saying she didn't desire me.

Underserving posted 7/20/2020 21:59 PM

You are in hell, and you have got to get yourself out. He does not have the qualities of a good or remorseful man. He is still pining after his AP, and the only thing you can do at this point is hard 180 him. If he doesn’t find you “desirable” tell him you will be contacting a divorce attorney immediately, so that you can move on to the next chapter or your life, and find a partner who does think that of you.

YOU are the prize. Him and the OW are bottom feeders and do not deserve anymore of your time.

It sucks. All of this is awful, but I can’t imagine divorce being worse than being married to a man who tells you he desires another woman over you. You are better and worth more than that. Please see that.

[This message edited by Underserving at 10:04 PM, July 20th (Monday)]

Justsomeguy posted 7/20/2020 22:17 PM

I am going to be blunt. Your WH
is an idiot. Being told this is very hurtful and him doing this after his A is terrible. You deserve more. Everyone wants to be desired by their partner. Its natural.

First years, my STBXWW body shamed me. She would tell me how much better I would look if I lost a few pounds, bought me clothes she liked, etc. It got to the point that I hated in dressing in front of her. I eve avoided reflective surfaces. It was a total mindfuck. And to boot, I was carrying maybe 10 extra pounds.

After I S, I went out and had triste. It wasn't the best choice, but we were two consenting adults. This woman complimented my appearance in a way no one ever had. I was gobsmacked. It was inconceivable that anyone would day this to me.

I am certainly nothing to notice, but I think it is not unreasonable to want to be desired by at least one person on this planet. There are over 7 billion of us.

If you WH can't step up, then maybe you need to really consider what YOU deserve.

Stinger posted 7/20/2020 22:32 PM

I rather doubt many cheaters desire their BS. By definition, you are, at best, plan B. Their actions pretty much showed this.

Of course, few, if they want to reconcile, are stupid enough to admit this, like your WH did. Sounds like he wants you to be the bad guy and initiate divorce.

Tinnat posted 7/21/2020 06:34 AM

Thanks to all. H tells me he and I make a great fit (and we really do). But at the moment he is in such a state of limerence that he's completely lost over his AP. He thinks that if desire has gone it will not come back, so my question was whether anyone has any experience of this situation.

Chaos posted 7/21/2020 06:49 AM

I suppose I am "lucky" in this regard. I get compliments and desire from WH all the time. Before, during and after the A. Never wavering.

Your WH is a flaming fuckwad for saying that to you.

Lalagirl posted 7/21/2020 08:03 AM

But at the moment he is in such a state of limerence

He's been in this "state" for almost a year, and it will continue ad infinitum if he does not have consequences for his rotten behavior toward you.

ThisIsSoLonely posted 7/21/2020 08:30 AM

You ask this, so I will answer:

He thinks that if desire has gone it will not come back, so my question was whether anyone has any experience of this situation.

Yes. In my own head and also my WH. If you read online there are plenty of marriages that go through down-times - loss of physical attraction. I went through this with my ex for over a year, and then it returned. My issue, however, was hormonal. I had lost interest in sex generally and didn't have the desire for my then boyfriend.

But that situation isn't what you're asking about. You're asking about this:

Yes. My WH told me a year ago that he had lost interest in me, wanted to end things, didn't want to touch me, or have me touch him and he claimed he "didn't know why". I think either the A was coming to an end (we had false R for over a year) OR he was pining away for her. Our sex life went from 3 times a week to 1 time a month, and he seemed very disinterested when we did it. Fast forward to now, and he is very interested in me _ the "desire" has returned (it is too late but it has returned) for him so yeah it can happen but who wants to worry about that (not you is the answer)

Want2BHappyAgain posted 7/21/2020 09:00 AM

Lalagirl is spot on! The others on here have given you great advice also .

I can't speak for anyone else...but I have a similar experience to yours. On Dday my H started his confession saying that he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone else...but he didn't think he was in love with me anymore . He then said that he NEEDED passion in his life...and he hadn't felt it from me in a long while .

My H told me this just 2 days after coming home from working overseas for 10 weeks without me. He had barely touched me in those 2 days...and I was actually relieved to hear him say these words because I knew something was OFF...but he kept denying it.

I gave him a hug...he didn't hug me back . I told him that whatever the problem was...we could work things out. Then he dropped the bomb on me saying..."I met someone. Her name is Lily". I still wasn't processing what he was telling me. I assumed he met Lily online...or maybe in the bar at the hotel where he was staying. I innocently asked what they did. His answer was, "Everything" . I pulled back from my hug and point blank asked him if THEY had sex. He couldn't even answer...he just nodded his head YES .

What happened next would surprise anyone who knows me...it sure shocked the heck out of ME!!! I IMMEDIATELY said, "The marriage is over". It was a calm and unemotional statement...very UNLIKE me!!! I then got up and left the living room...telling him he could contact Lily and make THEIR plans to be together because we were DONE. My H was now a free man.

Surprisingly...my H followed me into our bedroom instead of messaging Lily...and asked to lay down with me. Remember...for TWO DAYS he barely touched me...after TEN WEEKS of being apart...and NOW...after destroying my world...he wanted to lay down with me !!! Needless to say...about an hour later we were talking about R...and we are very HAPPILY in R...with full on PASSION .

So here is the backstory . I was married before...and cheated on as well. The first time my XWH cheated on me...I did the "pick me dance" like a pro...and I WON...he came back to me. Only...I caught him about two years later with another adultery co-conspirator . After doing research about the "limbic lag" and our "lizard brain"...I have come to know that my reaction to the Dday with my 2nd H was because of the experience my lizard brain learned from my 1st M. The "pick me dance" NEVER works. NEVER.

Now...as to my H . After discussing this a LOT...these are some of the takeaways. My H told me that the GUILT and SHAME that he felt for what he did was overwhelming when he first saw me after getting off the plane. He said he felt he must of HAD to love Lily...because that was what made the most sense to him for nuking our M. This PASSION that he felt for her while overseas was really the RUSH from her telling him YES to spreading her legs for him. He actually was still actively looking for other NSA hookups while he was fucking her . It wasn't passion for HER...it was the excitement of the taboo experience.

My H KNEW I would be devastated if I found out what happened...so he planned on taking this secret to his grave. He didn't realize how overwhelming the guilt and shame would be though. He knew he had to say something...but he honestly never thought I would say the M was over. My H said that when I told him that...with NO emotion...and then left the room...his heart SANK. He said that he knew in that instant that there was NO DOUBT he was indeed in love with me . My H said he didn't know what to do...but ALL he wanted at that moment was to be by ME .

We stayed in the bed for a little while until I made him leave to contact Lily. Because of the time difference between the two countries...I wanted to make sure he contacted her before she went to bed. While alone...I started thinking about things...and decided that maybe it might not be the end of our M. However...my H was going to have to PROVE to me that he was worthy of me. I went back in the living room and we talked. I told him what my ultimatums were and that he would have to do the first one right then. He had to send a NC message to Lily. My H didn't even hesitate . He told me later that when he was alone in the living room...he thought to himself that IF I gave him another chance...he would do whatever it took to be with me. If I had known that...I would have given him MORE ultimatums !!!

I said all of THAT to say THIS...YES...my H told me he didn't have any desire for me...and YES...that changed. But it ONLY changed when he realized...in his words...that he was getting ready to LOSE the BEST thing that ever happened to him. You are PlanB right now because you have made it EASY for him to put you in that position. DON'T SETTLE. EVER!! I did with my XWH...and I can guarantee you that this is NOT a place where you want to be . There ARE worse things than getting a divorce...and I lived it . PLEASE don't be ME...in my 1st M anyway . Be STRONG and KNOW that YOU are the TREASURE .

Underserving posted 7/21/2020 09:00 AM

It’s safe to say my WH’s desire for me decreased a year or two pre-A, was damn near non-existent during, and for a while after. I didn’t find out about his A until a few years later, but I can look back at that time and see how distant he became. I would even go as far to say he was likely disgusted with me. I was the nagging bitchy wife, and she was the younger care free, childless OW with a better body. She told him how awesome he was, I told him how worthless he was. (I really was a shitty wife for a long time. His A is still not my fault though) It took probably a year and a half, and then a switch happened. He couldn’t get enough of me for several months, and then we got to a normal sex life consisting of about 3-4 times a week. After d-day that has increased due to HB. So yeah, i know he didn’t have a desire for me for years, and that did return 10 fold for him. I’m enjoying the HB for now, it’s almost always focused on me and my needs, but I’m still not fully committed to R. Divorce due to his infidelity will be on the table for years to come. I’m deciding if all the damage that’s been done to me is something I can overcome being married to the person who caused it, or if I can’t.

I have a few questions. Is the OW still in your country, or did she go back home? Is you WH still in contact with her?

His foot in the door with you and the other out the door with her has been going on for a very long time. I can’t imagine how you are holding up through all of this.

Notaboringwife posted 7/21/2020 09:48 AM

My FWH always wanted to have sex with me about two years prior to his affair. It was not because he found me desirable. He was using me to comfort and soothe himself.
During the secret affair, he expected me to service him.
He used OW exactly the same way. With the added benefits of falling in love with her and her with him..In limerick world both of them.
The limerick effect lasted one more month living with her after we separated on D-day. Living with her did not change his personal problems, he brought them to her on a 24 hour basis each and every day.
Meanwhile, I did intensive IC and I now understand that the desire/sex with her was NEVER about me. He was the broken man who met a broken woman and had a great broken time together. Both are broken people.
I took him back three months after separating. The sex/intimacy was awkward at first. I told him he has to please me in bed or go back to her and 13 months later...I no longer feel used. I feel desirable. This is real life, no limerick world.
It looks like your H is mourning the loss of feeling good about himself.. Affairs do that, both parties sure feel good about themselves. Once the mourning/loss feelings subside and they will, he will change his tune. It may take time.
You have choices...I wish you much resilience with your decision.

Unhinged posted 7/21/2020 09:56 AM

Hi Tinnat. First of all... ouch! That's gotta hurt. I can hardly imagine (and honestly don't want to).

So, I went through your old posts and it seems rather clear to me that your H wants the best of both worlds, so to speak. He wants to stay married and live with his wife because... I don't know why, of course. Maybe he's comfortable with having you taking care of him and his house, kids, finances, retirement plans and all that goes with it. Maybe it's his imagine and reputation. The only one who can answer these questions, of course, is him.

At the same time he wants his "fantasy' relationship. And that's all it is; a fantasy. It seems rather clear, as well, that he has little regard for her or her well being. It staggers the imagination to consider what she's given up to be with a man who regards her as little more than a play-thing. I mean seriously, if was truly committed to her then he'd be committed, you know?

For his own screwed-up, selfish reasons, he's destroying the lives to two women to satisfy a "need" that neither of you--or even both of you at once, as already demonstrated--could ever possibly fill.

Unhealthy "needs" are common amongst wayward spouses.

Now, is an open-marriage or poly-amorous relationship something YOU want?

The choice is yours, you know.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 9:57 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

Joanna1013 posted 7/21/2020 10:16 AM

Holy moly. I want to call him a name so badly but won't as we're in the reconciliation forum.

My husband clearly didn't "desire" me while the affair was going on. He was cold, distant, and didn't touch me for a month. Although, he wasn't a big enough douche to actually say that to me.

But, pretty much as soon as it ended and he realized what he could lose, the hysterical bonding began, and we had sex two to three times per day for a couple of weeks.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I think you should enact the hard 180. That's the only way to get him to wake up and smell the roses. And, if he doesn't, you're better off without him IMO.

Evertrying posted 7/21/2020 10:23 AM

But at the moment he is in such a state of limerence that he's completely lost over his AP.

Respectfully and gently, he is in this state because you allow it. He is a big, fat cake eater and has no consequences. Why would he have to shit or get off the pot? He has the best of both worlds and you continue to let him do whatever he wants. He thinks you're cute, yet he screws his desirable AP? So sorry, but if he was my H, he would come home to find all his crap in Hefty bags in the driveway with divorce papers attached. YOU deserve so much more.

I doubt you will find anyone here that will answer your original question. He is worried about a life without "desire" and you should "desire" a life with a man who doesn't have a side piece. I have reconciled with my H, but only because he dumped his AP and put in the endless work to show me our marriage was worth fighting for. Your H isn't and until he gives up the AP, he never will be R material.

[This message edited by Evertrying at 12:04 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

sisoon posted 7/21/2020 12:48 PM

...[T]he main reason H is continuing to want his AP is because he says that he finds me attractive but does not desire me, and therefore does not want a life without that.

H tells me he and I make a great fit (and we really do). But at the moment he is in such a state of limerence that he's completely lost over his AP. He thinks that if desire has gone it will not come back...

He's responsible for his own feelings, thoughts, beliefs/opinions, and actions.

...[S]o my question was whether anyone has any experience of this situation.

I do. Without using a lot of words to share my experience, I believe that we have the ability to take control of our sexual feelings and hormones. I believe people can recognize and enjoy the attractiveness of people without seeing them as potential sexual partners.

I vowed to forsake all others. I trained myself to associate sexual feelings only with my W. If I hadn't done that, I don't see how I could have kept my vow.

Your H seems to have no intention of changing.

Your H's beliefs spell the end of your M, unless you want to share him. Frankly, with those beliefs, I think that relationship-wise, he's a major league ... well, relationship-wise, I think he's not a candidate for R. You're no longer a good fit.

Do you really want to keep him? If so, why?

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:50 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 7/22/2020 07:57 AM

Hi Tinnat,

I wanted to respond because we were having a discussion over in ICR and then the forum reached it's maximum capacity. I tried to do this yesterday but was having internet problems.

I think I pretty much said in our earlier talk what lalagirl said, maybe not as succinctly. I know that it's scary to do that, because you really would like to keep your marriage together. But, you can't nice someone back. The pick me dance ends up being the reason the WS feels they have time and will continue to abuse it.

As I said, you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Or to at least save yourself. You need to put your foot down and get yourself out of infidelity at all costs.

Speaking towards limerance, I know how hopeless a ws becomes during that. It's only because they have placed their self worth on this other person who will reflect back what they want to see about themselves. I felt like a more vibrant, sexier, younger version of myself. It was an illusion. I was no different than the day before the affair. But, no spouse can compete with the bullshit we are feeding ourselves, a mirage in the desert type of fantasy. But that's ALL you are competing with - a figment of his imagination.

It has nothing to do with the AP being more desirable than you. It has everything to do with the AP believing the bullshit he is telling her about himself and that allowing for his own self adulation. He has no self worth, no self respect, and no self love. Until he can gain that for himself, he will not have these things for others either. We have to deeply respect ourselves to respect others, and so on and so forth. You deserve deep respect and love on the fullest of levels.

You must allow him to face consequences, and the fantasy has to deflate. There are a few things that limerance needs in order to be broken: Reality, or long period of time with no contact. He is unwilling to do the second, so you have to hit him with the first. And even then, it's an uphill battle that at some point you have to decide is not yours to make.

As for your specific question, yes, as WS we tell ourselves all sorts of lies to justify our affair. We rewrite the marriage. I told myself my husband wanted a stepford wife, that he was controlling, etc. None of that was true. I was acting like a stepford wife because I hustled for love because I didn't feel like I deserved it on my own. None of these things were my husbands expectations. I would pick apart the way it came to be we got married, looked for ways he was slighting me, perceived him to be less emotionally open, etc. All of it was bullshit. And I had never even questioned any of that in our decades of marriage. We were genuinely happy before I slipped into a depression and then into an affair. They were just lies I had to tell myself to keep the facade going. When I confessed, my H didn't give me any wiggle room whatsoever, it was put up or shut up. And he meant it. It was not a manipulation or a threat, it was a fact. He wasn't going to put up with another day of disrespect or abuse, and he made it known. I struggled silently but I made it happen. I fought for it tooth and nail. But, not all do, and you have to be prepared either way. I am so sorry this is happening to you, you don't deserve any of it. But, please in these cruel statements he is making, you need to know this is a HIM problem and not YOU problem. As sisoon has said you can not reconcile with an unremorseful spouse, and at this point your husband cares more about what he wants then anyone or anything else. It's a drug addict mentality that you are up against.

LLXC posted 7/22/2020 13:51 PM

What reasons do you have for staying with someone who is telling you he doesn't desire you? If he wants to be married to you, is it a good sign that he has said it? It either means that he is so committed to honesty he will hurt your feelings or it means he wants to hurt you and/or it means he wants out of the marriage but wants you to do do the work. My ex chose that route btw.

And why do you want to be with someone who would say that to you? Do you still desire him?

You deserve way better, FWIW.

My ex btw - I felt like I knew him for years within a few hours of meeting him. So wonderful to be with. He got me like no one else. That doesn't mean he is a good partner. He is a shitty person.

Your husband did a shitty thing to you and is now saying shitty things to you. That indicates....something

Marie2792 posted 7/22/2020 18:28 PM

My husband and I had a good sex life during the affair. I knew something was off about his behavior but he was skilled at hiding it for three weeks. He treated me horrible my one night I was sick but other than that he didn’t waiver. For him it was the rush of someone younger who he could demonstrate what he learned from watching porn.

Brew3x posted 7/22/2020 18:58 PM

Tinnat did your H tell you he doesn’t desire you during the A or after?

My WW told me she didn’t desire me twice once one week before DDay and once two weeks after when we went out for a few to many drinks. The first time she said it was when I knew she was having the A it took another week to catch her.
We’ve talked about it since and she claims she was developing feelings for the AP and got caught up in limerence.
This type of rejection is very difficult to get over but it is possible if you both work at it.
My W and I are trying to build a new M and connecting In Ways we never did before. I’m nowhere close to were I need to be but hopefully I will heal from the rejection someday.