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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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LadyG posted 7/26/2020 03:49 AM

20, my WH knew that watching porn was a betrayal, thatís why he watched when I wasnít around. Late at night when I slept upstairs, he was watching porn downstairs. Then he would come to bed at 2am and wake me expecting a quickly.

He even got caught watching at work. It was sickening that he did that. Anyone else would have lost their job.

I had his work phone recently before our Court Ordered NC and I happen to check his internet viewing history. May 31st he found his exAP on live webcam and watched her Hard Core, sickening vomit worthy Anal videos.

I took screenshots of it and I sent them to him.

He was with me the day before and I cooked dinner for us.

My WH basically shits all over my kindness and compassion. As far as I am concerned, he can suck shit and I hope he chokes on it.

I absolutely hate porn. I have had this discussion on another thread. Itís sickening that very few people think about the extreme abuse and exploitation of the women they are watching.

Itís cheating and dehumanising of all involved.

Celibacy is helping me put this and everything else into perspective. Itís cleansing for me to extract myself from it.

Porn has no place in a loving intimate relationship 🙏🏼

20yrsagoBS posted 7/26/2020 11:38 AM

LadyG,


I sincerely believe porn dulls the observerís reaction to things like anal sex. If someone doesnít want to engage in anal sex, but is married to someone who enjoys watching porn of it, the person who doesnít watch it is vilified, or treated like something is wrong with them.


Iím a nurse. Buttholes are shitty, stinky AND smelly. Why thatís a turn on for some men baffles me

HeHadADoubleLife posted 7/26/2020 12:44 PM

Hi ladies!

OOL, I hope the funeral went as smoothly as possible for you. Loss is never easy, especially when it is compiled with the loss and grief of infidelity.

Ellie, I love that quote! I also love that you have a wall of sass! I also just love the word sass.

I guess I have the same thing, just in Pinterest board form (the board is called Badassery, by the way). It's crazy how the internet can connect us to little nuggets like this. Before we were lucky if we had one or two sassy friends to throw out a jewel every once in a while, now we have 24/7 access to all the sass we want!

gmc, I hear you, and I feel the same way. I always try to talk about waywards in general, because ultimately wayward thinking is not unique to any one gender. It's just a soup of entitlement, insecurity, FOO issues and general assholery. Everyone's soup may vary because they threw in different measurements of each ingredient, but it's all the same unappetizing and even poisonous mush at the end of the day.

I just read somewhere, I can't say where without being reprimanded, that men have more to lose financially and biologically (??) by staying with their wayward wives than women do staying with their wayward husbands. Bish what?

Chaos, I agree with you, a good review/edit is often necessary, but damn if I don't also want to come out swinging with a 2x4 every once in a while!

But apparently the male ego is a much more delicate thing than the female one
I laugh, but there are actually a few men here who really don't seem to have this stereotypical ego. If they're not just avoiding the topic altogether, they usually respond with metered, well reasoned thoughts on "those" threads, , and I PM them to thank them for not being douchebags.

I don't think ego is an issue genetically predisposed in men, I work in the entertainment industry and trust me, there are just as many women with over-inflated egos too. But they don't often get ahead in the same ways men with big egos do, because it's not considered to be an acceptable trait for women - we more readily recognize the assholery and shut it down. I just think we as a society tend to socialize men to serve their ego above all else.

LadyG, I forget, are you in Oz?

20, of course, that's what we're here for!

You all probably know my thoughts on porn by now. I think we as humans, when not well in the mind, tend to abuse our bodies and minds by using substances to excess. Porn is one of those substances.

Working out is good for you, until you do it for hours a day, every day and you become exercise bulimic.

Playing video games can be a fun way to relieve some stress, but staying up until the wee hours of the night every night and ignoring your other responsibilities isn't healthy.

Drinking a glass of wine with dinner each night is fine, drinking a bottle, not so much.

Smoking a little weed to unwind every once in a while, not a problem. Smoking when you wake up, then every 30 minutes until you go to sleep so you can maintain your high, that's addictive behavior, whether or not the substance is actually "addictive."

Same goes with porn. Some people can use it in moderation, others can't. My XH was in the latter category. I'm positive that many of his strange ideas about sex came from porn. 20, I agree, I think it can make it hard for them to see their partner as human. My XH was actually very good in bed. He boundary crossed like nobody's business, but he wasn't a selfish lover. He really wanted me to finish, to the point where he was always doing "research" to find the newest best things for me. Even though I told him time and time again how good what we already did was. So much money spent on toys bought on my behalf, that were then thrown in a drawer or thrown away because I had no interest in them, I only wanted him. He took offense to this, like I was throwing him away and not the toy. I couldn't understand it, because what I was actually asking for was him, but he had such a weak sense of self that these toys and techniques and whatever felt like an extension of himself.

This is where I think the porn may have informed some of this insecurity. He was hitting all the right buttons, but he wasn't getting the output he was looking for - really loud, over the top orgasming and a lot of dirty talk, like what he had seen in porn. Sure, I had done that more in the beginning, but that's when we lived in separate apartments, so it was easier to get alone time away from the girls. I enjoy a loud session too, but I have the wherewithal to understand context and my surroundings and adjust accordingly. What he couldn't seem to grasp after we moved in together was that the dynamic necessarily had to change. Our daughters' bedroom shared a wall with ours, so every time we had sex and they were in the house (more often than not), I intentionally controlled myself and was as quiet as possible. But he thought *do the good tongue thing* was the input that used to get the *writhing in pleasure, very vocal, bed banging against the wall* output, and he couldn't understand why that had changed.

In our case, the input that needed to be changed wasn't the actual sex acts, it was the environment in which sex happened. This would have looked like encouraging the girls to get out of the house more and hang out with their friends, planning time where he and I could be truly alone together, booking us a hotel room, etc. Instead he did nothing to encourage that, didn't plan hotel dates for us to get away, was super protective and weird whenever the girls wanted to hang out with friends so they just stopped asking, so that type of true alone time was exceedingly rare. On the few occasions when the girls were say, staying at their grandma's, and I was actually able to be as free and vocal as I wanted to be, he would act shocked and say something like, see, why can't it be like that all the time? Ummmm, dude, I really don't understand how I can explain this to you in any clearer terms. Can you not see how *girls out of the house* plus *sex* = louder, raunchier sex? I swear it was like I was telling him that 1 + 1 = 3.

Another one he couldn't wrap his head around was sucking on my breasts. I don't like it. Never have. I don't even have biological children, but I feel like I'm breast feeding. I know some women have receptors there and it is an erogenous zone for them, no judgment for those who like it, I just know that I don't. It doesn't feel good to me, it just feels weird and slobbery, and kind of like why are you doing that? Like if he were to suck on my knee or my elbow or something - it just feels strange and out of place.

So when he would do that (the breasts, not the knees/elbows) I would ask him not to. I lost track of how many times I had to tell him not to do that. It was like in the heat of the moment his brain didn't work correctly and he would go for it again, and I would have to pull him away and say hey, stop that, you can kiss anywhere else but there, please. Often I would just pull his face up and kiss him, to get him away from the boobs. Now there were some times where I was so close to finishing, that when he would ignore all of the previous conversations and do it anyway, I would just let it happen. I still didn't like it, but I didn't want to kill the mood, and I was much more focused on the sensations going on below the belt that I kind of just pushed it out of my mind so I could focus on finishing.

Then the next time we would be having sex, and he would go for the boob again and I would say no, he would act confused again. Well I just don't get you, you liked it so much last time! No, dude, I didn't like it. I tolerated it for the sake of my own orgasm! All of that pleasure you saw was because of the other things you were doing, and in fact happened in SPITE of the boob sucking. When you hear hoofbeats, why are you assuming there are zebras instead of horses?

Sometimes he seemed so truly confused. Imagine George of the Jungle trying to figure out life in the city. THAT was my XH trying to understand, well, most social norms, but especially sex. I could literally spell it out for him and he would just be like "wow, you're such a mystery!" I think a significant amount of my time was spent face palming. And on the rare occasion that he got the output he wanted, instead of examining all of the ways in which the context was different this time, which led to the output he desired, he would just shrug and say "Mr. HHADL just lucky I guess."

I wonder if watching porn can cause this George of the Jungle naivetť in some men. Like they're so used to living with the gorillas (watching hardcore porn) that they can't wrap their brain around living a normal human life (actual sex with real women who have feelings and autonomy). But after a certain amount of time, and so many women telling you the same thing, I no longer believe it's naivetť, I think it's willful ignorance.

ETA: The physical similarities between Brendan Fraser as George in the Jungle and my XH are striking. Body type (long torso, shorter legs with wide shoulder to hip ratio, aka swimmer body), height, long hair etc. I don't know how the analogy of how their brains are so similar hasn't come to mind before, now that I've thought of it, it feels so obvious. But the fact that they are so physically similar too is, I don't know, weird. I feel like this is a weird revelation I'm going to have to explore with my therapist haha.

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 1:26 PM, July 26th (Sunday)]

20yrsagoBS posted 7/26/2020 15:23 PM

HHADL,


Your post really resonated with me!


My WH just cannot process the word NO. He thinks thereís always another chance, that he can prove heís a safe partner for me, still finds me desirable, etc.

This coming from a Cheater who went for the uglies.


Yeah, so flattering, NOT

But I am the unreasonable one apparently

20yrsagoBS posted 7/27/2020 13:49 PM

Are you all hyper focused on details too?

WH will ďsuggestĒ that I am not remembering clearly.

But he said the same about his OW when their stories didnít match his

LadyG posted 7/27/2020 18:06 PM

Are you all hyper focused on details too?
I need to be hyper focused on the details of his Last A.
WH swears that They hooked up after I had moved out of family home. I knew this didnít add up. I checked his phone records, his credit card details, his and my car GPS tracker and found that he used my car to visit her home address a month before I Told him I was leaving him. He can lie all he likes, some detective work gave me the evidence I needed to stop his fake reconciliation.

As I was preparing furniture for removalist, WH presented a brand new Television and gave it to me as a ďDivorce PresentĒ He denies he said that. But asked me if he really said that.

That was the television he threatened to throw out my front door. I called the Police.

We donít have polygraph tests but my WH canít remember his own birth date some days.

Tallgirl posted 7/27/2020 20:20 PM

A story....

I was tidying and found a pot that had a melted candle in it. The candle had been on a pile of polished stones and had surrounded all the stones.

As I pried the stones from the wax one at a time, I saw that one stone had the word HEALING on it. Huh. I thought, and kept pulling the wax off of the stones. I saw a second stone with the word LOVE on it. After a few more stones, there was one with INSPIRE written on it.

I want to think that there is a message in this, that through healing and Self love I can, we all can become an inspiration for others. It took a lot of prying, and cleaning to get all the stones out of the wax that had engulfed them. It was a slow process, one stone at a time.

When I got to the candle bottom, it Still had a label on it, HOME. It felt right. Yes from HOME SENSE.

It felt right.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 6:20 AM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

20yrsagoBS posted 7/29/2020 11:51 AM

Oh TG!

Perhaps itís a message telling you itís time to focus on loving TallGirl to help her heal?

Tallgirl posted 7/30/2020 11:07 AM

20, I feel that.

Have date 2 tonight.

Tallgirl posted 7/30/2020 22:48 PM

Ladies,
I need your perspectives.

So I went on a date tonight. Drinks and nachos. Quite up my alley.

A normal looking guy, a bit heavy, bright and well spoken. Over all, we had a good night. I liked him.

He was a talker, I am ok with that, talkers reveal themselves, I was listening and assessing. I actually told him that.

A few things surprised me.

1. His view of me. Mature, together, intelligent, confident intelligent, independent. I was quiet taken aback because I feel like I am a disaster. Apparently I am unique. Particularly on old sites. He suggested that I may intimidate men... And remind them of their moms....what? Is this a statement that there are a lot of troubled men on old and to run Away screaming.

2. He talked a lot about his views, what he thinks, etc. All interesting, no complaints. He however did not ask me any questions. None. I volunteered a bit, but not much. Red flags? Normal? I am thinking one more date and see if it changes.

3. When the bill came. He asked for one bill. Not having dated in 30 years I asked if I could give him money for the bill. He said yes, and took it.. I was turned off. Did not like this one bit. I am ok with paying my half, but on a first date where I invited you, I would treat you. Is this because in olden days it was how it worked? Am I just being old fashioned. Do I need to change my view?

4. He sent me a lot of follow up texts. For me the date is over, others than a thank you, I am not interested in texting forever. It is tiring. Again? Am I off here?.

Dating is a lot of work

HeHadADoubleLife posted 7/31/2020 01:09 AM

TallGirl, wow, first date... you are so brave!

His view of me. Mature, together, intelligent, confident intelligent, independent. I was quiet taken aback because I feel like I am a disaster. Apparently I am unique. Particularly on old sites. He suggested that I may intimidate men... And remind them of their moms....what?
Prefacing this with - I could totally be projecting. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

This whole statement makes me cringe. This basically sounds like my XH's script. I lost count of how many times he told me I was intimidating. Also, I'm so different than other women, so intelligent, so sexy, so beautiful, so independent, he thought he was a hard worker until he met me and saw how hard I work, he's not good enough for me etc... what I now know to be love bombing. It's not that those things aren't all true (especially - as I would come to find out - that he is not good enough for me), it's just abnormal for someone to lavish so much praise so quickly.

And it's not like I didn't have a gut feeling that it was too much - I even cringed back then when he said stuff. Like I would actually do that shoulder shrug with the eeesh face when I would read his texts. He was a big texter too, and he would send me poetry that he wrote for me (yes, I know, ). But I convinced myself that I needed to get out of my comfort zone and date someone who was different than anyone I had ever dated.

He also shared way too much about himself too fast. On our first date I learned that he had previously kicked a coke habit, and I remember thinking to myself wow, he's so open and honest, how refreshing. Turns out there was a lot more to that story that he didn't tell, but a good trick when lying is to admit to some pretty crazy stuff, then people will assume that you're honest because who would admit to something like this and still have something to hide?

And come to think of it, re: your talking so much about himself and not asking anything about you note, I definitely came away from our first few encounters feeling like he was monologuing. But I was so used to emotionally unavailable guys that I mistook this kind of word vomit for vulnerability and emotional maturity/intelligence.

I'm not a great person to ask re: the bill, I have a steadfast rule that I pay my half for at least the first few dates until I feel someone out. Maybe I've lived in LA too long, but I've had more than a few dates feel transactional, like because they paid I "owed" them something, so I like to take that off the table up front. I do think it's reasonable to expect that if someone asks you out, they should assume they're paying. But then I also wouldn't have offered any money if that was the case.

The texting could be a red flag, as in someone who needs a ton of validation. It could also just be how he communicates. I feel like nowadays it's more about if your texting style meshes. If you're not a big texter in your day to day life, best not to try and pair up with someone who loves texting all day long.

Like I said, I don't want to project all over you, I just wanted to throw up some possible red flags - pink flags, if you will - to be aware of. It's possible he's a narcissist who doesn't actually care what you think so why would he bother to ask, sure. It's also possible he was just talking nonstop because he was nervous.

I do think if your gut feels off about him, trust it. I now know that those cringey moments were times I should have listened to myself more, not fought through the awkward feelings because I thought I "needed a change."

20yrsagoBS posted 7/31/2020 07:15 AM

TG,


Trust your gut.


If it feels off, then stomp on the brakes.


I think heís offensive. After the Hell youíve been through, you deserve better

Frankly, you deserve a sweet, honest, wonderful man


Please donít settle. Look what happened last time.

LadyG posted 8/2/2020 04:43 AM

We have just been hit with Stage 4 COVID Restrictions. A curfew is now in place between 8pm to 5am.

Yesterday my DS came over to visit and to drop off some items for my dog.

Son still lives with WH, so WH decides to fill a bag of junk and send it over to me.

Seriously it was all stuff that should have been tossed a while ago. Most of it was just boxes of Multi Vitamins which had he checked were his and out of date. He also sent over old prescriptions Which were his to treat his Haemorrhoids. Son returned the script back to him.

I was so upset when my son left. I waited a while and then sent him a txt, that I appreciate that he needs to clean out the bathroom but to leave anything he believes is mine. He is not to touch until I can return to my house to sort through it. Itís like me wants to rid all traces of me from my home.

I took my valuable belongings and family photos and memories the first week I left 13 months ago.

WH know that August is a month full of grief for me and I didnít see the funny side of him sending over a bag of his rubbish.

WH, replies an hour later that he just finished playing video games with Son and polished off a bottle of Scotch and was going to bed ALONE.

My damn wedding dress still hangs in the closet where he sleeps.

Boohoo. He made his choices and I want a Divorce.

Give me strength. I have 6 weeks of curfew and isolation. not hugging my sons is already making me so so sad. 🙏🏼

20yrsagoBS posted 8/2/2020 14:08 PM

Oh LadyG


Your WH is a douche!

20yrsagoBS posted 8/2/2020 18:55 PM

Be Careful What You Wish For


Ok, Womenz!


Iíve been studying open marriage.

I have never boinked anyone besides WH since we started dating in 1987. I donít plan on ever doing that again.

But WH kept bringing up swinging and his ďresearchĒ.

So I started researching it too.


Swingers wear wedding rings on Right ring finger

Swingers decorate their yards with pineapple decor and lots of pinks and purples.


Swingers wear ankle bracelets.

I have made all those changes. When WH asked why, I told him it was to let other swingers know WE are swingers (at least he apparently is)

The funny thing is that swinging couples arenít into cheating husbands. Ha! So itís a fruitless endeavor!

EllieKMAS posted 8/3/2020 14:07 PM

1. His view of me. Mature, together, intelligent, confident intelligent, independent. I was quiet taken aback because I feel like I am a disaster. Apparently I am unique. Particularly on old sites. He suggested that I may intimidate men... And remind them of their moms....what? Is this a statement that there are a lot of troubled men on old and to run Away screaming.
FUCK THAT. If a man is intimidated by me, then they are a little boy just pretending to be a man I've gotten this line too - not to light my bra on fire, but that just feels like one more instance of telling me I am not how I'm sposed to be. If you're intimidated, then go find some shrinking violet that will let you feel like the big man. I will go find someone with balls bigger than mine.

I have made myself a promise that I won't ever diminish my me-ness for a dude again. If they can't handle the gloriousness that is me, then they can fuck right off. BTDT and have the divorce decree to show for it. And, as it turns out, my exdouche saying I was 'independent' was code for 'I'm a lazy fucker and just want someone to make all the decisions and do all the adulting things'.

And you aren't a disaster honey - just a work in progress!

2. He talked a lot about his views, what he thinks, etc. All interesting, no complaints. He however did not ask me any questions. None. I volunteered a bit, but not much. Red flags? Normal? I am thinking one more date and see if it changes.
Not sure if red flag or just plain rude. If he does it again on date 2, I say rude.

3. When the bill came. He asked for one bill. Not having dated in 30 years I asked if I could give him money for the bill. He said yes, and took it.. I was turned off. Did not like this one bit. I am ok with paying my half, but on a first date where I invited you, I would treat you. Is this because in olden days it was how it worked? Am I just being old fashioned. Do I need to change my view?
Color me old-fashioned, but guys pay on the first date. I would offer too probably, but would expect the answer to be "no, I got this." Especially if they invited you!

4. He sent me a lot of follow up texts. For me the date is over, others than a thank you, I am not interested in texting forever. It is tiring. Again? Am I off here?.
This sounds like you're not feeling the click and he is. Could be problematic.

Dating is a lot of work
Yes. Ugh I am not NOT looking forward to 'getting back out there'. Boys are dumb.

Outoflove2020 posted 8/3/2020 17:15 PM

TallGirl - if a guy isn't asking any questions about you, I would see that as a flag. Too involved with themselves in my opinion. Also, re the bill, I would always offer to pay my half but if they insisted on paying, I'd be ok with that also. Totally agree with what 20years says - trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right, move on.

I'm back in the US now. I really really miss my family. I hate being on my own again in my apartment. And I have to self isolate for 2 weeks. But I'm not missing him. I guess that is progress.

Outoflove2020 posted 8/3/2020 18:03 PM

God, I'm really struggling right now. Being back here is awful. I don't want him, but I don't want to be here. Maybe I should just go home. Admit defeat. I'm 43 years old and I want to go home to my mum.

I'm crying so much I can barely breathe. I thought I was getting better.

I will be ok tomorrow. I have to be.

LadyG posted 8/4/2020 02:59 AM

20, I worked with a guy a few years back who called himself a Swinger. His 3 ex wives and 9 children had no idea. All that Swinging by the time he was 30!

Outoflove2020, 2 weeks self isolation is hard in the beginning. I have gone several days without even speaking to a single soul. Except for my dog. I remember to play music when I realise that itís so peacefully quiet.

We started 6 weeks of strict curfews and lockdowns across my entire State on Sunday.

It didnít take WH long before he started Txting me.

Again last night nearly Midnight, puppy was snoring In bed with me and I forgot to silence my phone. Oh, heís drinking and feeling lonely and so sorry for himself. Heís already Done and itís only been 3 days.... 5 and half weeks to go... WH wants me to give him some hope that itís really not over for us. He wants me to be his light at the end of the tunnel.

We are all going to be just fine alone 🙏🏼

[This message edited by LadyG at 3:02 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

20yrsagoBS posted 8/4/2020 15:54 PM

OOL


Iím giving you a GIANT glittery bear hug


You sound like you need some bitch boots and a tiara.


Youíre one of us. Your Cheaterís stupid decisions donít define you! Youíre one of us, which makes you amazing.


Time for some cute undies, red lipstick, and a sparkly glass of pink champagne!

Cuz, Fuck those Fuckers!

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