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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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cocoplus5nuts posted 1/20/2020 21:21 PM

I'm done with my own thread because people are giving me shit.

Does anyone know if there's a way to turn off email notifications of new posts?

SisterMilkshake posted 1/20/2020 22:18 PM

I'm sorry I don't how to turn off notifications, coco. I did that a long time ago but can't remember how. If no one can help you here, maybe ask for a Mod or ask in Off Topic?

coco, and "that" thread It is so funny (not really) how some menz are saying that BW's don't get invalidated for wanting something for their reconciliation. That any BW can demand whatever they want and everyone at SI will support them. Yeah, not so much. Sorry you are having to deal with non supportive crap, coco.

SisterMilkshake posted 1/20/2020 23:07 PM

@gmc94 I see you liked what fareast posted on "that" thread. That is exactly what I feel some of those BH's want. But, can you imagine how that would have been received if any BW posted that? I will be watching to see if they come with pitchforks for him.

TX1995 posted 1/20/2020 23:42 PM

Coco - Iím sorry your thread got out of control. I never knew how to turn notifications on, sorry I canít help! I personally didnít think you were in any way in the wrong with your assertion that you wouldnít go. I have zero military experience so I think thereís a whole dynamic there that went over my head. (And 😬 on maybe knowing someone?!)

I know I should stop the drinking. I knew there was an issue when I started WANTING one instead of just wanting one. Maybe dry February should be my goal. I need to do a whole bunch of things differently sooner rather than later...

Ellie - Hi!!

And I missed your post BBE but I agree with the idea of the trauma bonding creating a desire. Please remember to keep yourself safe. I know itís got to be a huge monumental mindfuck.

GMC - I think my old therapists did some damage too. Unintentional of course, but damage nonetheless.

In that Unspeakable Mind book, she discusses betrayal trauma (in regards to childhood abuse) and how it correlates with dissociative PTSD symptoms. Basically it happens because we canít physically leave. I wonder if the same is true for so many of us who were dependent on our spouses for our physical needs (not just emotional). We stay stuck in the limbo because we feel like we canít flee and survive. Then when we feel strong enough on our own can we get back on track to connecting with the world and making decisions based on what we want...

[This message edited by TX1995 at 11:48 PM, January 20th (Monday)]

gmc94 posted 1/21/2020 00:05 AM

SMS: I wrote out 3 or 4 posts for "that" thread, then my executive brain got back in control and I deleted. It's all such bullshit and a waste of time (I did a totally sarcastic one too). I don't remember so much of that kind of mean spirited bullshit when I first joined SI, but I may have had my head so far down the rabbit hole of pain that I just didn't notice.

I also had a whole thing about some of the awful shit I wanted to do to my WH after dday (like the time I had to put down the knife and leave the kitchen bc I was wondering if I had it in me to plunge it in deep enough to kill him in one fell swoop... another in a long list of 'not my finest moments' post dday), and how being vindictive toward the WS may feel good for a moment, but really doesn't do jack in the long run (in hindsight, just the fantasies were probably not that helpful - just another way for shame to rear it's ugly head into my psyche, as if I hadn't already received a healthy enough dose of shame by the A). But, I deleted that one too :)

I did just respond to post asking if a BW ever asked their WH for anal: When I asked WH to up his game in the sex dept, he basically said no.... and proceeded to begin having sex with his girlfriend. After dday, he told me that when I asked about switching up our sex life, he said I made him feel like less of a man (which is funny, bc he told me the the reason he slept with his POSOW the final time was bc he needed to "feel like a man" ). So, between that thread and my own experience, I'm getting the impression that it's our fault if we ask a man to up their sexual game... and it's our fault if we don't bow to their sexual demands... and it's our job to make them "feel like a man" even we didn't even know they felt like something other than "a man". Good grief, that's a lot of fault we have, isn't it? But hey, if we just fucked our husbands properly, they wouldn't "need" to get off with some other strange - right?


In that Unspeakable Mind book, she discusses betrayal trauma (in regards to childhood abuse) and how it correlates with dissociative PTSD symptoms. Basically it happens because we canít physically leave. I wonder if the same is true for so many of us who were dependent on our spouses for our physical needs (not just emotional). We stay stuck in the limbo because we feel like we canít flee and survive. Then when we feel strong enough on our own can we get back on track to connecting with the world and making decisions based on what we want...
Personally, I am financially (and maybe somewhat physically) dependent on my WH and that certainly factors in my not filing for D. Like Coco, I have made it crystal clear to my WH that I WILL heal from this, and when I am, he better have brought his "A game" or I am out of here.

I want to explore that concept with my trauma IC - it could be very interesting in that I don't see myself as dissasociative, but maybe that's just bc I put up a really nice, high, tall, strong, wall around myself (tho clearly inferior to my WH's). She's also got some Internal Family Systems training, and although I'm not being asked to go into a semi-conscious state like my last trauma IC did for the IFS work (different IC than the one who I think hindered healing), she is super excellent in pointing out the parts of my emotional world that "protect" the weak/vulnerable parts, and - super important - how the "mamma bear" in me may be hindering healing of that inner child after a lifetime of "taking over" when anything painful came out or that child needed space to process hurts. So, mama bear and baby bear are talking it out right now... mama is learning that baby needs to walk on her own and will be ok, even if she falls and scabs her knees. This was all so foreign and touchy-feeley to me when I started, but as I work it, I am able to surrender more and that has been super helpful and healing (tho sometimes I feel like I am Sybil in that 1970s tv movie).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:14 AM, January 21st, 2020 (Tuesday)]

HeHadADoubleLife posted 1/21/2020 02:53 AM

I've been absent for a bit. Well, I still read everyday, but refrain from posting. I was ruminating a little too hard on my posts, reading and re-reading, letting my perfectionism get the best of me. Partly because all of "those" threads lately have been triggering for me, and I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing and being lambasted for it.

I know we're not supposed to mention threads outside of their original location, but I think that it would be very hard for me to convey to you guys what I'm feeling in this particular moment without mentioning where these feelings are coming from, so I hope that the powers that be are able to see that this is part of a healing discussion.

I do think they have been helpful in digging up some painful stuff that needed to be addressed with my IC. Shocker, I've got some issues with my Dad that I need to work out.

Also still have a bunch of residual stuff from the sex addict XH. Trying really hard to stay on the positive self-talk track where I remind myself that his behavior wasn't my fault. It has not been easy lately. Found out some stuff via DD20's outcry in December that was basically like a new DDay.

I won't get into all of the details just yet, I haven't even brought them up with IC yet, I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of it. I honestly feel like there is not enough time in the day to process everything. I go into IC with one thing on my mind, and we end up discussing something completely different, and don't even touch on the things I originally wanted to. It's natural and conversational, I get why it flows where it does. I guess there's just so much un-mined territory to go through. I really wish I had health insurance, I would check myself into something inpatient.

I'm doing my best to support DD20 right now, and have been trying to keep my responses to myself so as not to re traumatize her. Can't say I'm all that shocked by the new revelations, they were more-so confirmations of some of my worst fears, but they seem to have knocked me back into some of the earlier days of my trauma response. More difficulty eating (not throwing up, thank the universe), difficulty sleeping, nightmares have come back. More triggers, especially music related. And anything relating to sex.

I can't seem to help but get sucked into "those" threads. Maybe that is me trying to press on the bruise a little bit? I've given up on posting replies, though I appreciate those of you who are stronger than I am right now and are able to reply.

Tonight has been one of those triggery nights though. Have been a ball of snot for a few hours, with 10 second spurts of hyper-ventilation thrown in every once in a while for good measure.

Feeling like I'm not worth a damn thing unless I agree to be a sex vending machine. I mean, that's all we're good for, right? Every other thing I brought to the table as a partner can be outsourced to someone or something else - name anything, there's probably an app for it! If I don't volunteer to give up all of my orifices well there are OWs, and apps to procure OWs, and toys, and porn, and cam girls, and all sorts of other things just waiting to take my place.

Feeling like just an assortment of holes. After all, my resistance to perform sexually with my husband after discovering all of his issues was my fault... I had sold him on a relationship with me through "false advertising" because we used to have so much sex back when I trusted him, and then shockingly had less sex when he proved how untrustworthy he was. Funny how I was able to see my XH as a human being, not as a walking, talking pleasure machine to make me feel better about how fucked up he acted towards me.

Feeling like damaged goods. Will I ever be able to have sex again without wondering if the person I'm having it with has been lying through their teeth to get it? Because they "deserve" it, because they were nice to me. Or, if we're in a relationship, because if I don't do it, then I'm just his sister. Because I most definitely hold my brothers in my arms and play with their hair as we're falling asleep, yeah, that's such a sisterly thing to do, sex is the ONLY thing that separates that relationship, right?

Speaking of being held - it's literally all I want, and yet I can't imagine trusting anyone to do it ever again. The thought of laying in bed with someone is simultaneously all-consuming and vomit-inducing.

Feeling past the point of redemption... my biological clock is ticking, yet I'm nowhere near emotionally or financially ready to have a child because of this mess. I'm going to spend years digging myself out of a financial hole, so IVF and adoption are off the table until that shit is sorted out, and by then I'll be infertile anyway. And given how fucked up my picker is, I don't trust myself to have sex with anyone anytime soon, let alone with the goal of getting pregnant.

Oh, and when it comes to my step (hate that word, but using it for clarity) daughters, DD20 is in an emotionally abusive relationship with a carbon copy of her fucking father, so she sends BF pictures of us to prove that she's hanging out with me, her fucking mom!!!, and DD18 won't talk to me because she is scared of how Methhead McSexAddict will react.

On the bright side, my therapist thinks Methhead McSexAddict is a hilariously funny name for XH, so at least I still have my wit

Hugs to all of you. I want to respond to each of you individually. I literally respond in my head as I read, but then I don't post. I'm just... overwhelmed. I wish we could all go out to coffee together somewhere. I think in many ways I can handle conversation better than writing things out lately.

I am thinking of each of you. I'm just not in a good place right now. If only posts could be written telepathically!

ETA: A very merry un-welcome to our new members! I say un-welcome, because nobody wants to join this club, we're just forced to. I normally try to greet you newbies with some advice and a pat on the back, but HHADL just doesn't have it in her tonight.

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 3:06 AM, January 21st (Tuesday)]

BigBlueEyes posted 1/21/2020 03:19 AM

Iím going to revisit your thread, hate it when OPís are made to feel worse when they are asking for support & constructive advice.
Seriously that sucks monkeys balls!!!!

When I joined here I was told numerous times, I mean numerous fucking times, weíre all told the exact same thing
You did nothing wrong!
He/sheís a broken man/woman
He/she has issues!
He/sheís fucked up...bla bla bla!
But somehow betrayed women have a different pain than betrayed men because we donít have a dick??? Fuck that shit show!!
Thatís utter crap!!!!
I didnít sleep, eat, take care of myself, I couldnít go to work, I burst into tears at the slightest thing, no different to any other betrayed spouse.
I literally seen my husband FUCKING some young skank over half my age...no stretch marks from pregnancy, no blemishes on her perfect fucking skin, no sagging skin, completely flat stomac, because she was ONLY 22 yrs old, I literally watched his hand grabbing her ass cheek so tight to stop her moving up the bed. Identifying his wedding ring touching her fucking skin!
But hey my pain is different because I donít have a dick!!!!!

Posts like that should not be allowed, itís wrong on sooooo many levels!

BigBlueEyes posted 1/21/2020 04:11 AM

Umm sorry for ^^^^^

Iím normally much more restrained

Going back to my issue, thank you for your opinions,
My IC has met him a few times now (part of the groups he attends) he obviously doesnít tell me much, Itís not important to me or my healing, my STBXWH has given permission for me & our eldest boy to be told things if his councillor thinks itís pertinent to either ours or his safety. But itís a need to know basis...& tbh I donít need to know!
My IC believes my stbxwh is still under the impression he can control the narrative of this story, so yes the mindfuckery continues!

Again sorry for my earlier rant...triggering maybe!!!!!

littleAvocet posted 1/21/2020 05:06 AM

Heledadoublelife your post has resonated so strongly with me. Iím sat crying over my coffee. Sex addiction does such huge damage to our self worth, and to our sexual selves. The feeling that we are only valued for sex is so awful. I know what it does to your self esteem. Iím still deep in the water with all of this. There are some books that have helped me. Come as you are by Emily Nagoski, and The Sexual Healing Journey by Wendy Maltz. I was working through these until fwh lied about his sexual behaviour yet again. Since then itís been too painful to carry on.
I hope you find peace and healing. This is a terrible wound to heal from, but others have.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/21/2020 07:46 AM

((HHADL)) I can feel your pain coming through your words. I wish I could give you a real hug. You are so much more than your orifices, or your physical body. You are an amazing, strong, beautiful woman! We all are!

menz are saying that BW's don't get invalidated for wanting something for their reconciliation. That any BW can demand whatever they want and everyone at SI will support them. Yeah, not so much

Wow! Yeah. Apparently, I'm not being fair to my CH because he's not cheating right now. And, it would be so unfair if his career suffered because he cheated. I could have fucked up his career a long time ago if that's what I wanted.

And, there's a thread started by a BW who is in a lot of pain because she feels sexually inadequate since her CH had sex with OWs. But, yeah, the men have it so much worse.

BBE, don't ever apologize for being angry and expressing it. You have a right to.

TX, the military culture is only different if you make it different. Yes, the active duty members (ADMs) are technically required to follow orders, but it's a lot easier now to get out, especially as an officer. My H can resign his commission at any time. He has been in long enough that he won't be required to do any reserve service. Every time he left us for a deployment, he chose to. He could've resigned.

There's certainly no requirement that I do anything. I didn't sign my life away. I know of ADMs who do the geobachelor thing. They go wherever they are assigned and their families stay wherever they are, usually their homes. Happens all the time.

I'm being told that, if I don't love my H, I should let him go. I'm not stopping him. He has choices. If I D right now, I won't be able to afford a home for even myself, much less me and 3 kids. I can't rely on alimony and child support for that. My H doesn't make enough for me to get enough. Why should I and my kids suffer financially after my H cheated so that he can maintain his career? Bullshit! That fuckwart owes me!

TX and gmc, I dissociate. That may very well be what I'm doing now. I literally feel nothing for my H. Since our coffee talk, he seems to think everything is ok, I guess because I talked to him. He talks to me about what he's doing. I don't care. I seriously feel nothing toward him except annoyance when he says or does stupid shit.

Part of me thinks I should try to get an appointment with my IC. We are skipping this week because I thought I had guests coming. Part of me wants to just sit in this. I don't want to fix it. I don't want to work on it.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/21/2020 08:49 AM

So, I went reading about dissociation, which lead me to an online screening for psychosis. It said I am at high risk for psychosis. Maybe that's why I don't feel anything toward my H. I have dissociated again. I think that would also explain why I don't want to do anything about it.

gmc94 posted 1/21/2020 13:13 PM

Ugh Coco... seems like the blows just keep coming.....

and HHADL, I also wish I could come and give you a great big hug.... FWIW, consider yourself virtually held by the womenz.

crazyblindsided posted 1/21/2020 13:46 PM

HeHadADoubleLife wow your post hit the mark and THAT thread is terribly triggering for those of us who were with sexual deviants. Sex is my biggest trigger. It was already that way since childhood sexual abuse and my STBX just compounded that even more.

I am at a point where I want no sex at all even with myself. I don't think about it and when I do I get grossed out pretty fast. My future looks very grim sexually if men think this way then I can't be a part of that. I am far from a sex vending machine and I won't have sex if I don't feel like it.

(((cocoplus5nuts))) so sorry for everything you are dealing with. I couldn't read your thread anymore in R because that of all places should be supportive and I'm sorry it was the opposite of that. I too felt you were being judged. I get really sick and tired of people who have this idea that wives should just suck it up for their husband.

Blackheart11419 posted 1/21/2020 17:17 PM

So since the A we haven't been on a date and now we are planning on going bowling for our first date since the A.

What was your first date like and honestly Idk if this is supposed to be romantic or corny. I'm glad we are having a date night but a bowling date night. Our first date was a miniature golf course and that made me smile like crazy.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/21/2020 19:28 PM

I can't remember pur first date after dday. In reading about dissociation, I have realized that I was completely dissociated for at least 2 years after dday1. I can't remember a thing except my rage.

crazy, I told a friend that if H and I D, I am not interested in getting involved with another man. They aren't worth it. Now that I'm done having babies, they don't bring anything positive to my life romantically or sexually or companionship wise, that I can't provide for myself.

I get better companionship from women. I can make my own money if needed. I get satisfy myself sexually, or I can occasionally have an ONS or maybe find a completely emotionless fuck buddy. I'm done with all the drama and baggage men bring with them. I read an article recently about how many older women are choosing to live alone even if they have a SO. They don't want to be bothered with taking care of another person anymore, especially a grown ass man.

We talked again today. My H disclosed today that his phone started blowing up as soon as he got cell service again, which means he saw the texts I sent and the calls I made. He also had a voicemail message from the guy who gives out the assignments to call him back asap. So, rather than giving me a quick call just to say hi because we haven't talked for over 24 hours, he called the monitor. Then, he got caught up thinking about the command offer and didn't think to call me, again.

Is that normal? If I'm not in contact with someone I love for an extended period, I want to talk to them asap. If I get big news, I want to tell my SO about it asap. It seems very strange to me that my H doesn't want to do that.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/21/2020 19:39 PM

I always write so much, and I always forget stuff.

H told me he's resistant to IC because it feels like just one other thing he has to do when he's already feeling overwhelmed. He came up with all kinds of excuses why he can't do it. I reminded him that he didn't have a problem coming to MC with me when I scheduled it. He just doesn't want to do IC.

He arranged to meet with a man from his support group tonight to ask him to be his sponsor of sorts. He says he did this after I told him that avoiding friendships so that I won't get upset or be suspicious about what he's doing isn't healthy. And, he maybe sort of agreed to IC. I'm not sure about that one. I'll believe it when he tells me he has an appointment with someone.

CallingSpades posted 1/21/2020 20:14 PM

Coco, moving to California and taking command is going to take up a shit-ton of time. Just sayin'.

Ask fch what he would do if a Marine under his command told him that said Marine was getting divorced because he couldn't find an hour a week to work on the skills to save his marriage.

Probably he IS really busy and feeling overwhelmed, but I think I hear you saying that you're in crisis and you NEED him to make time. None of his minders want him to get divorced. They'll give him time. CoD just don't wanna ask. Saying "yes, sir" and taking the shiny, validating command feels much better...

I'm on the CoD side of my relationship with WH and I fall into the "yes, sir" trap every time. I also fed myself all kinds of excuses (time, energy) why I wasn't working on our marriage even though I knew it was not good. WH had a huge role in it, but I let myself slide into the "poor me" hole. I like to think if he asked me to go to counseling, I would have, but I don't know. Early on, definitely. But then that self-pity hole gets pretty deep.

Edited to explain myself and sound a little less bossy. I really am a CoD busybody

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 9:39 PM, January 21st, 2020 (Tuesday)]

CallingSpades posted 1/21/2020 21:32 PM

I'm super frustrated. Still no way to contact OBS and I'm getting a little obsessed. After finally deciding to do it I don't want to wait. I see my IC tomorrow and she's probably going to tell me to mind my own damn business.

And I read part of that godawful thread before everyone here started posting about it. I had stopped reading after the 3rd or 4th post that had me going, WTF?? Thank you to the Womenz that have the balls to call out that bullshit even though you know you'll be attacked.

HHADL I am crying for you. I don't even know what to say. You are so much more.

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 9:53 PM, January 21st, 2020 (Tuesday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/22/2020 07:29 AM

CS, you don't sound bossy. Everything you said makes sense.

Your IC probably will tell you to mind your business. You know that's wrong, so don't listen. However, if you've done your due diligence and there's just no way to inform the OBS, it's ok to let it go. You tried.

If you are divorcing, you could always run an ad in the local paper where they live. Seeking spouse of OW who had an A with my CH.

I told my H that I'm sure his CO would give him the time to attend to family needs. The CO has a child in crisis, so he knows what it's like. And, like I said, he managed to find the time to leave early on Fridays to go to MC with me, which we aren't doing anymore. He can find the time if he wants to. Then, I commented that it was interesting that he says he solves problems all day at work but can't come up with a solution to that. Hmmm...maybe because he doesn't want to?

Of course, he then said that he never knew when something might come up at work that would prevent him from leaving on time. I told him that he could explain all of that to the IC and set up an understanding that he might sometimes have to cancel at the last minute.

SisterMilkshake posted 1/22/2020 09:05 AM

Big hugs to all you womenz. I am so sorry there is so much pain, really, really wish I could make it all go away for you.

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