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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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cocoplus5nuts posted 1/9/2020 08:25 AM

My therapist said the workbook I got was good, but...

She thinks my fch is not emotionally ready for it. It might be too much for him and cause him to shut down. She still wants me to get the one she recommended because it's more gentle. I not sure.

I realized ways on which my fch is still CoD. My therapist is talking to me about things I can do to make my fch feel more emotionally safe with me. I need to be more gentle and less direct with him because he can't handle my approach. I'm not sure I want to do them. They make perfect sense for a relationship that is having trouble, but without the added benefit of a cheater in the mix.

I know that, ultimately, if I want things to be better for me, I need to make changes. However, I'm so tired of doing all the emotional labor in our relationship because he's so unfit. My therapist pointed out that these changes are to my benefit regardless of whether or not my M lasts, which is true. I wouldn't be doing it for my fch. I would be doing it for me. The question is, can I get past that? Can I practice these tools on my fch solely for my own benefit without getting emotionally bogged down in the fact that he is not worthy?

She keeps telling me he has serious frontal lobe damage. His behavior indicates that he is always in danger mode. He has been conditioned from his childhood to always be on the lookout for danger and ways to just smooth things over so everyone will be calm. He's stuck in his amygdala and can't access his frontal cortex where thinking and reasoning happen. That has been reinforced by his job. 😕

Chaos posted 1/9/2020 09:39 AM

Coco - From my outside looking in perspective - perhaps the question isn't "can I" but more of "should I try to"

Can I get past that vs Should I try to get past that

Can I practice these tools on my fch w/o getting bogged down... vs Should I try to practice these tools on my fch w/o getting bogged down...


cocoplus5nuts posted 1/9/2020 12:05 PM

I try to avoid "shoulds". "Can I?" works better for me. IOW, can I look at these things as exercises that I'm doing for myself with my fch just happening to be the person available for me to practice on. Does that make more sense?

The types of things she is suggesting that I do would be beneficial for any relationship I may be in, including my kids. It might also help me get more clarity on how I feel about my fch. For example, she told me to drop the word, "stupid," from my vocabulary. So, instead of telling him that some belief he has is stupid, I would say that I don't understand or something like that.

northeasternarea posted 1/9/2020 15:55 PM

I tnd to replace 'can I' with 'do I want to'

Chaos posted 1/10/2020 06:44 AM

Good one northeasternarea. Do I want to is most apt.





Be back after more coffee.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/10/2020 07:54 AM

I tnd to replace 'can I' with 'do I want to'

Well, yeah, that's the issue for me. I really don't want to. What I want is for him to grow some balls. Stop being so intimidated by me, if that's his problem, and just fucking speak up! Why does he care so much what I think of him that he'll lie so that I'll like him? I shouldn't be his therapist. He needs to figure out that shit, himself.

So, the question becomes, can I turn that around? Instead of thinking of it terms if doing something for him, can I look at it as me helping myself? Practice new skills on him the way I would practice them with my therapist.

Chaos posted 1/10/2020 09:21 AM

Damn girl! Coco - that's an awesome rant. Rashawnda would be proud!

In fact, I read that in what I imagine Rashawnda's voice to be AND was moving my finger while doing so.

And since we haven't awarded a PEREL award in a while, I nominate Coco for saying that.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/10/2020 18:49 PM

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Chaos

CallingSpades posted 1/11/2020 00:39 AM

Coco, I hear you.

I'm wondering, how different is your communication style now from when you and fch were dating? What I'm trying to say is, he loved you and married you while you were communicating in this manner, no? So what is it: did he have a problem with it all along and never addressed it? did he develop a sensitivity to it later? did you gradually change in response to his avoidance? or is your communication just suddenly front and center when he needs an excuse for his behavior, or an excuse not to hear you? I'm grappling with these questions myself.

I guess this has nothing to do with your decision on what to do. It just boggles the mind how he (or MC) thinks his choices should make anything easier for him than they were before. Just one more unfair double bind in R.

I'm working on me, gentle communication included, for my kids. If WH benefits from it, great. Like you, I'll always have to communicate with WH because of the kids, R or D. Might as well be as effective and conflict-free as possible, even if it's just so I/kids don't have to deal with his hurt feelings.

Going to my work holiday party tomorrow, with my brother as my +1 Oh the joys of S.

Edited for odd punctuation. SI needs a nerd emoji.

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 12:56 AM, January 11th, 2020 (Saturday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/11/2020 08:16 AM

I have always been clear and direct in my communication. My mother used to fuss at me for being too blunt. I did change the words I used with my fch over time when it seemed to me that he reacted to certain words. After several years, I pretty much stopped trying to communicate with him because I realized he is passive aggressive and I was done playing his games. Interestingly, that's when he decided I didn't love him.

Personally, I think all the problems with our communication were created by him from the beginning. I'm not sure he loved me when we married because I'm not sure he knew me. I think it's possible he had an idea of what I (the woman, any woman) should be and just assumed that's how I was. When I didn't become that woman after we married, he didn't know what to do. He became resentful when I didn't live up to his unspoken expectations.

He said he thinks I conditioned him over time to become defensive. My IC says his behavior was formed long before he met me. Whatever went on with his FOO caused his frontal lobe to not fully develop because he was in a constant state of stress and fear, which is quite interesting considering he describes his FOO as idyllic. He subconsciously picked me because my behavior reinforced what he already believed. Basically, he married his dad. 😄 His old IC told him that his dad took away his power when he was a child, and he gave me his power when we got married.

Tallgirl posted 1/11/2020 18:51 PM

Coco were you separated until this past year or did you stay together the entire time?

My WH doesnít say much, when I am angry he is quiet, when I am upset he is quiet, when I am troubled he is quiet.

I think it is a few things..... guilt about how he hurt me, fear that he will say something wrong, with a lot of shame and disconnect because he lives elsewhere. I think he is rather lost.

Do you think your WH is similar?

CallingSpades posted 1/12/2020 01:03 AM

Thanks, Coco. It helps me so much to hear your story. You're way further along in IC than me so that's helpful too.

Blackheart11419 posted 1/12/2020 14:10 PM

I am new to this website and so far it has been really helpful and reading some of the threads on this page has been really helpful so here is my story:

My D day was Nov. 4th, 2019 that my husband was having an EA and a PA with two different women. The EA started in Sept. 2019 till Christmas of 2019. The affair was Oct. 2018-Oct. 2019 and we got married in March 2018. So my marriage in my eyes stopped back in Oct. 2018.

Today we are in MC/IC so we can figure out what we want from this marriage. Neither of us believe in Divorce so that is not an option for either of us.

My H has been showing me that he can change his behavior but I have been so hurt and angry to see any of it. He has started therapy for us, he continuous to apologized, has told me everything no more secrets, spending more time with me, sharing his feelings and shame, and has told me he wants to recommit to just us.

cocoplus5nuts posted 1/12/2020 20:04 PM

Welcome, blackheart. Sorry you have to be here.

TG, we have never been separated by choice. We have been separated because of fch's work many times.

If he feels any guilt or shame over what he did anymore, he doesn't show it. He's very matter of fact when we talk about his cheating. He probably has fear that he'll say the wrong thing. He never wants to upset me. He's conflict avoidant.

Chaos posted 1/13/2020 08:43 AM

Welcome Blackheart. Sorry to have to meet you. But you are in good hands.

The Womenz thread is wonderful. Few things to remember - we say FUCK a lot. Never eat or drink while reading from the Womenz thread. You'll end up shorting out your keyboard

I'll try to find our Womenz Dictionary for you. You'll LOVE it. You may even find yourself using it in your every day conversation.

Chaos posted 1/13/2020 08:47 AM

Here you go!

Womenz Dictionary

BASGU - Bad ass sparkly goddess unicorn - A BW - gorgeous, warrior, goddess, survivor

CSAH - captain save a hoe - A man that feels like he has to "rescue" a homewrecking AP

D2DW - dollars to donut whores - Bet you anything you like

DA - douchebags anonymous - Betrayed Womenz Thread (side note, we need 12 steps for this one)

ESAD - eat shit and die - Nuff said

FMR - Fuckmerunnin - Sarcastic disbelief

FOAD - fuck off and die - also needs no definition, but can be used creatively ie "Hey you! Take a walk on the FOAD road!"

Fuckwart - An unremorseful cheater, so named because of the nastiness in their soul

GFD - great fucking day - depending on context, can be sarcastic or enthusiastic commentary on a given day

KITD - kick in the dick - Can mean physical kick, but also striking at the spiritual or metaphorical dick

KTHITD - kick the Holiday's in the dick [can be literal or spiritual or metaphorical dick]

RA+ - Rashawnda approved - Badass

S+BB - sparkles & bitch boots - Super spiffy bitch boots

SSCS - Stupid shit cheaters say - cheater's 'script' as it were

WTFF - what-the-fuck face - The face you make when something so stupid is said your brain actually short circuits

WWRD - What would Rashawnda do - She would wave her finger at it and say that it's "not our fault the mens are too dumb to see it"

Blackheart11419 posted 1/13/2020 12:41 PM

Thanks for all the support women. He is showing remorse for what he has done.

gmc94 posted 1/13/2020 13:12 PM

Coco - i've said before that our WH could be brothers.

I think most of us BWs are forever expected to do the bulk of the emotional heavy lifting. I love hearing about those fortunate ones whose WH manage to drive their own healing bus - to see that such a transformation is possible.... but I can also fall into envy (and they really do seem quite few & far between - at least here on SI).

My badass self says: WTF? At what fucking point does the WH take the keys and drive his own damn bus towards emotional intimacy, towards the M, towards R, towards healing, TOWARDS ME?

But my executive-brain-that-wants-to-heal-and-live-wholehearted says: it IS about me and MY healing and MY journey and the woman that I want to be. Fuck him if he's too stupid to figure it out - I can find my way to divorce court (ok, maybe that last part is Badass coming back into the picture )

Your posts sound like the old standby of "unfairness" may be making a grand appearance here. Could there be any truth there?

It's like the MC/IC is telling you to eat your veggies because it will help you. But the tone here strikes me that you may feel like you have to eat yours (by toning down your lifelong communication style) while WH gets to eat cake (bc poor him and his FOO, etc). That makes perfect sense to me.

If that may be at work, what forms of his veggie eating might help you feel more comfortable - feel more 'just" ? And then I wonder - is THAT train of thought healthy? Does it become a sort of quid-pro-quo? That seems a little "off" in that the veggies are still good for you, and if your WH doesn't eat his, then he deals with those consequences..... while your digestive track is rockin'.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:13 PM, January 13th, 2020 (Monday)]

EllieKMAS posted 1/13/2020 13:25 PM

First of all - FUCK Mondays.

Been kinda out of the loop for a while. 2019 is still kicking my ass - pinched a nerve in my neck on Dec 28 that is still giving me shit, and have ear issues too yaaaaay.

Chaos - the dictionary is on my profile if you are ever needing it for a newbie How are you??

Hi to everybody else - hope you all are having a good January so far!

Also hi to new womenz!

Coco -

My therapist is talking to me about things I can do to make my fch feel more emotionally safe with me. I need to be more gentle and less direct with him because he can't handle my approach.

Sorry, but this is total and utter horseshit IMHO. Your fch needs to grow the fuck up and figure it out. You ain't his momma and it's not on you to talk soft so you don't hurt his precious wittle ego. A bit ranty, but seriously??

With the benefit of being a divorcee for a month as of today (woot woot!), my xdouche tried to pull this crap with me too but... It's not my job to adjust me so others feel more comfortable with who I am. It's not my job to hide or not vocalize my truth to spare someone else discomfort. It's not my job to tiptoe around someone else at the expense of my own health and well-being. If they can't handle my ME-ness then they can go find someone willing to put up with their shit. I did tone myself down for a LOT of the time I was with the x, and I can say I will never do that again for anyone.

Chaos posted 1/13/2020 16:17 PM

Ellie Iíve been OK. Busy but ok. You know - just navigating the shit out of the POLF and sprinkling some glitter along the way.

I didnít say FUCK you to one tree or decoration this past season.

However have said FUCK YOU to every one of those red shined fucking hearts. D2DW you canít guess who shares a fucking birthday with fucking Cupid ❤️🍩🤮

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