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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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DaisyAnne posted 11/29/2019 11:00 AM

hardtomove, 10 year LTA is a hard thing to get over. If you still think about it daily 6 years later, it just may be a dealbreaker for you. I'm so sorry :(


Coco, I'm glad you had a good Thanksgiving. That is so very sweet of you to help out the homeless so much.

My Thanksgiving was good overall. I made the turkey, sweet potatoes, and spinach dip. My girls made pigs in the blanket and crab wontons for appetizers. Everyone else brought a dish.

The only hard part was between apps and dinner. My family was talking about a family member who we just found out is getting divorced. The wife already is seeing somebody so everyone is assuming that might be a reason for the divorce. Yes, infidelity was the topic. My FWH noticed I was starting to get emotional and trying to hold it in so we discreetly went upstairs to our room. I was having a minor panic attack. He just held me and reminded me that we are not them (the couple who is divorcing). I have a husband who knows he was wrong, who adores me and wants to have a future with me. I tried my hardest not to cry too much and ruin the holiday. 10 minutes later I got myself together and went back downstairs. Luckily, I am still doing my eye drops from the Lasik so I had a good excuse why my eyes were a little watery.


Chaos posted 11/29/2019 19:28 PM

Hi there!

Thanksgiving in the Land of Chaos was nice. Low key. In a good way.

Going out with friends the night before was more fun than I imagined.

20yrsagoBS posted 11/29/2019 21:22 PM

Thanksgiving was good.

Had my second EMDR session tonight.

Therapist told me I married my Dad. Remember that he molested me for 6 years then lied about it for many more?

Ugh, sobering

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/29/2019 22:31 PM

Therapist told me I married my Dad. Remember that he molested me for 6 years then lied about it for many more?


Had a huge blow out with my fch tonight. Told him to sleep on the couch. Then, I left.

Now, he says he's been spending so much time focused on himself because he was so messed up that he has neglected me. He needs to make me a priority. Ya think?

I told him to do something about that. I tried. I'm done. He's the one who's too busy and doesn't make time. I've got all the time in the world.

20yrsagoBS posted 11/30/2019 11:58 AM

Coco?

Why do our WHs assume they have the luxury of taking their time deciding to behave like real husbands?


Sheesh!

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/30/2019 17:35 PM

Why do our WHs assume they have the luxury of taking their time deciding to behave like real husbands?


Because we're still here.

He apologized more this morning. The fight was about our 15yo.

TX1995 posted 11/30/2019 21:11 PM

Coco - your Thanksgiving sounds lovely! Sorry post was not so lovely, but on the bright side your FCH brought up his ridiculousness all on his own!

Daisy - Iím so sorry you triggered but glad your WG knew to comfort you through it.

20 years - ugh. Hope this 2nd session of EMDR is helpful.

I am currently back from a nice family vacation, sitting in my hot tub, crying. I just think this might be a deal breaker yíall. We bonded as a family for the past week, but not as a couple. I do think heís sorry. But I donít know if that will ever be enough for me. Our 18th wedding anniversary is next Sunday. And I honestly wish a car would hit me before I get there. I love my kids. Like crazy. They are amazing. Truly. Such incredible little people. But Iím so tired of hurting this bad. I donít get why this is happening to me. Iíve been a good person my whole life. I donít get it at all. I just want it all to go away..

TX1995 posted 11/30/2019 21:15 PM

And Hi Chili!

And Hope, itís always ok to just call it quits. Sucks but itís ok. ❤️❤️❤️

gmc94 posted 12/1/2019 01:08 AM

Hello ladies!

I traveled to see my mother, and begin a sort of adventure. Had a planes, bus, train, and automobiles full day of travel, that included a cousin I've not seen for 8 years picking me up & driving me 2 hrs to my mother's bc an "incident" on the train tracks was gonna cause a 2-3 hour delay (dunno if anyone was hurt). It was awesome to catch up and I'm so so so so grateful a family member was able to come to my rescue in rainy cold weather (and there seems to be some odd juju here - last time I visited my mom, a metrolink was my 1st leg on public transit and my train hit a pedestrian [no injuries] causing long delay. Maybe this is God's way of telling me to stay off trains in this state?).

So - no thanksgiving meal. Instead, an interesting day that sucked at times but all seemed to end just fine - and just the way it should have. Seems like a fitting sequence of events for THANKSgiving.

Being with my mother has been it's own challenge (my IC says I married my mother. >a decade ago [when WH's EA was turning PA] I went NC with my mother, for pretty much similar behavior that I now get from WH). But finding ways to see & communicate with her with more compassion and empathy, without taking too too much bull, feels good. huh. Maybe I'm setting some boundaries that I can be more calm about vs worrying OR not thinking about stuff and then being PO'd? Funny - just dawned on me that I'm unconsciously using some new skills... Sorry for the stream of consciousness/lightbulb moment distraction

Tomorrow I begin part two of the adventure. Driving a 28yr old sportscar about 1800 miles. I drive >1000 miles nearly every year to visit my dad, and every few years do a cross country of about 2k miles. This is the first time I've been a little afraid! First time doing >1k miles alone. First time in such an old car that I know nothing about - it's pretty rickety feeling compared to the sedan or SUV I drive regularly. First time taking such a trip in winter weather. I had to order "just in case" tire chains and hope I don't have to add installing & driving with chains to my "first" list. So, there's a sense of apprehension, but I'm going for it! [feels kind of empowering!]

I figure things must be going pretty good if I'm concerned about crashing and being decapitated bc this car is so low to the ground it would probably go completely underneath a tractor-trailer. A little more than a year ago I might have been praying for such an end.

Challenging as it's been (my mom has serious back issues and walks like the witch with the apple for sleeping beauty. She's in pain and her mind gets super foggy, even tho she's not on any narcotics), I needed this trip! Tomorrow I see an old and dear friend as my first stop. I have this fantasy of getting pedicures that I really hope she's amenable to (maybe I'll add some glitter to my toesies this time... for the holidays and as homage to Chaos?)

Hey Ellie - if you see this, I really wish I could have done lunch or something while passing through, but I switched to more southern route bc I don't quite trust driving this tiny car across CO - one silly patch of ice from an overnight freeze on it's barbie-sized non-snow tires is too risky. Sucks because I'd have loved to have met (and maybe got an hour or two on the slopes)

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/1/2019 08:43 AM

((TX)) None of this us about you. You didn't do or not do anything to deserve this. It is all about your CH.

Daisy, good that your CH was able to comfort you.

GMC, that does sound like an adventure. Putting on and driving with snow chains isn't too hard. You lay them down, drive the tires over them, secure them, and you're done.

Yes, TX, at least he recognized his own ridiculousness and admitted it all on his own. He never apologized for anything pre dday. That's a big step for him.

DaisyAnne posted 12/1/2019 09:31 AM

Gmc, that is certainly an adventure! Safe travels!

Tx, I am so very sorry you are hurting so badly. Only you know if this is a dealbreaker and it says nothing wrong about you.

Coco, him admitting it all on his own is a huge deal.

Yesterday we picked out and put up our Christmas tree. One of the advantages of having teenagers and having them taller than you is that they can really help a lot with decorating the tree. They did all the lights, which is the part I hate the most. Today I am doing some online Christmas shopping. I am not in the holiday-shopping mood this year for obvious reasons. So today I want to do all my online shopping to get it over with and then just buy gift cards for the rest.

Chaos posted 12/1/2019 13:12 PM

Christmas Decorations up. Tree next weekend.

I didn't once pick up a decoration and say "FUCK YOU".

Progress my Womenz. Progress

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/1/2019 21:07 PM

I didn't once pick up a decoration and say "FUCK YOU".


🤣


I almost got a tree today, but it was raining and I didn't feel like dealing with that. H and I are kind of feuding about the tree. M not a high Christmas fan, but I do like to have a real tree. He wants a fake tree. He thinks m ok with a fake tree because I got one once when he was deployed and we were living in the California desert. Um, no real Christmas trees around.

We ended up without a tree last year. I kept telling him to get one. He kept kind of grunting about it and saying he wanted the fake tree. I refused to put up the fake tree (I should throw it out). I assumed he would eventually get a real tree. Nope. So, we had nothing. I was pissed!

All of that to say, I'm going to get the tree myself. If he doesn't like it, tough shit. My 15yo asked how I'd get it the house. I told him he and his dad could do that. Fch grunted. I said, "If you won't do it, I'll ask my new friend, Christopher, 2 doors down. He's a big contractor guy. He can easily carry in the house for me."

I did not gain weight this weekend! I threw the rest of the leftover desserts away tonight! First time ever for me to do something like that. I may have cried a little.

Maudlin posted 12/1/2019 21:34 PM

I had a really weird Thanksgiving. At the moment we are switching between the house the kids are at and an apt. Iím in the apt, and LLCAH (low life cheating asshat) is at the house. Iím taking the kids back to the US for Christmas so he is meant to have Thanksgiving.

Weds I had a second date with a guy, and then later that evening asked him if he wanted to come over...Iím sure we know where this is going 😂

So I woke up Thanksgiving day with a man who isnt LLCAH, and while there have been other men post breakup it being a holiday was...weird. Heís Australian, no Thanksgiving for him (Iím not in the US so itís not on anyones radar but us Americans).

Then I took my dog to the house for the day as Iíd planned to go to the hot springs, and LLCAH hadnít made a single Thanksgiving plan or preparation...so they were going out to eat and did I want to come after the hot springs? Well no actually, I wanted them to be together without me, but he asked in front of the girls so I felt like I kind of had to. Floated in the hot baths for some hours, then met the family for dinner...at the same restaurant Iíd gone to a couple nights ago for dinner with the Aussie.

It was kind of surreal. My nice normal life has gotten so messy-! Iím e joying it sometimes, but Iím also just bitter itís turned out this way.

HeHadADoubleLife posted 12/2/2019 19:14 PM

Ok ladies. I have a ton I want to respond to for everyone.

I just have to quickly ask for advice re: my daughter. She came to me today and told me that she thinks her boyfriend is cheating on her.

Now, I have been contemplating that this is a possibility for a while now based on some of the anecdotes she has divulged to me. But, I wanted to consider the possibility of projection considering what Iíve been through in the past year. Heís on his phone all the time, for example, but maybe heís just a self centered asshole, who knows? I didnít want to plant seeds of doubt in her head for no reason, so I addressed these concerns as, well if itís bothering you, then you should communicate with him about how you would like to connect more with him and would appreciate if he spent less time on his phone, yada yada.

Then a few weeks ago she tells me that earlier this year she went on his phone and found a bunch of screenshots of women. At the time she didnít go into too much detail, but it seemed by the way she was describing it like it was random nudes, like porn. This was about 10 months ago, she apparently confronted him about it then, and she has not seen anything or had any issues since. So when she told me about that, I let it be.

Today though she went into much more detail because of an incident last night and this morning. He ordered her food last night, and he fell asleep, so she used his phone to track the delivery through Uber eats, and this morning he asked how did you get your food? When she responded that she used his phone to call the driver, he flipped out on her and said I canít believe you went through my phone you went through everything didnít you? She then apparently said something to the effect of if you didnít have anything to hide, It wouldnít matter if I went through your phone. Is there something on there I need to see? Funny thing is, she had not even looked at anything else on his phone, even though she easily could have since he was asleep.

He denies any wrongdoing of course. I then asked her for more details re: the pictures earlier this year, how did she handle that, what if any resolution did they come to about how stuff like that was going to be handled moving forward? Basically she said she just told him Iíd better not see that ever again, and that was that. But when I pressed for more details on the nature of the photos, she revealed that they were screenshots of girls on Snapchat in various states of undress some fully nude others in lingerie. Some were from before they were together, others were right alongside photos of her in his camera roll. And these were not cam girls, these were people he had met via dating apps like Tinder!

So of course I tell her, you know that was cheating right? You have every right to be upset and to be suspicious of him because he has broken your trust. That from now on his phone will always be a point of contention, and he needs to do everything he can to show you that you can trust him with that again, all the same stuff we usually point out to any newbie here on SI.

Well THEN she goes on to tell me about his female ďfriend,Ē who heís been talking to a little too much lately. They were introduced in a friendís group chat, but then apparently they started their own side conversation. That in and of itself is suspect. Then she tells me that he is talking to this girl for hours on end on the phone, even sometimes while my daughter is trying to spend time with him! And sheís sending him selfies with various filters on them - none of the ones DD has seen are sexual in nature, but still, who sends selfies to someone of the opposite sex? I guess he has shown her the messages a couple of times where this girl says things like ďyour girlfriend is so pretty!Ē And ďI want to be friends with her!Ē Her BF has also tried to push the idea of them being friends, to which my daughter has said hell no, Iíve got my own friends. Now Iíve heard about him pushing this friend on her before, but never in the context of knowing that this girl is talking to her BF for hours on end.

Anyway, the final nail in the coffin for me is when my daughter tells me that this girl has apparently been describing to my daughters boyfriend in great detail how other men have been trying to lure her (other girl, not DD) away from her boyfriend, and how one almost succeeded. Ummmm, grooming much?? BF also tells DD that this girl is madly in love with her BF so thereís nothing to worry about. Oh HELL to the no. Red flag city and this asshole is the Fucking mayor!

There arenít enough faces in the world!

She is asking for my advice and I honestly donít even know what to say. I mean obviously I know all of the SI things to say, but I really donít want to project my own baggage onto her.

I really want to tell her to run for the fucking hills, but she needs to come to that conclusion on her own. I know at 20 if my parents had told me not to date someone I would have laughed at them and carried right along.

Even in many non infidelity related ways he is a terrible partner for her. I could list all of the reasons why, but suffice to say it is that he is not much of a partner at all, but more like a man baby in need of a parent/secretary/assistant/someone to do his bidding. Sound like anyone else we know? Hint: itís MethHead McSexAddict, my ex H, her father. And again, every time she tells me one of these stories, I take into account the possibility of my projection, and try to give her the most neutral advice I can. But fuck if this isnít textbook FOO shit.

Itís really gotten to a point now where itís glaring. How do I break it to her that this guy has got to go? I know itís ultimately her decision, and given her age sheís likely to continue in a relationship with him for quite a while before she finally wises up. I guess just looking to hear from Ladies who have been there: what would you say to your daughter in the same situation? I'm trying to get her to see the light.

Hugs and a big FUCK MONDAYS to all!

Oh, and the kicker? This bitch has the same name as my husbandís mistress. Not a super common name. What are the fucking chances?? You just canít make this shit up

ETA:
When driving her home tonight, she added in the fun tidbit that when they were fighting this morning he said something to the effect of "Well I've got another girl anyway." He apparently calmed down, apologized and hugged her, but I'm sorry, there's no question now, right?

I emphasized to her that she is always welcome to come live with me, so having a place to stay should never be a reason to stay with him. That I know she probably feels an allegiance to him because he provided comfort and a place for her to be when shit hit the fan with her dad, but that she doesn't owe him anything. I know she would never want to go back to living with her dad, and I assured her that this wasn't her only option if she chose to leave. She said oh I know, that's what I told him when he told me "if we break up you'll be homeless." Ummmm, what motherfucker? Are you really trying to intimidate her into staying with you by insinuating that she has nowhere to go?? I said, don't listen to him, that's just his way of trying to control you, and then she told me about how they fought about something a few months ago and he told her he was going to "send her in an Uber to your Dad's house." Again, what in the actual fuck????? I said that is his way of trying to shut you up - he knows that you would never want to move back to your Dad's, so he's basically saying, stop making me angry, or else.

I told her look, I know you love this guy, but you really need to take a long hard look at everything that has been going on and ask yourself how much more of this are you willing to take? I said the best advice I could give her was to try to pull herself out of it, and look at the story of their relationship as if it was a movie - if you were watching the heroine going through all of this, what would you be screaming at the screen for her to do? I know what I would be screaming, but I don't control the heroine in this movie, only you do.

I also reminded her that she has a tendency to keep things to herself until it becomes a very big problem. She has always done this - waiting until she is failing to ask for my help to study, waiting until she doesn't have enough money to pay the tow truck fees to call me for help with her car. I know why she does this - her asshole dad would yell at her for every little thing, so she avoids conflict until it becomes too big to cover up anymore. I told her look, the fact that you're coming to me with this means to me that this is a very big deal, because you tend to avoid asking for help or advice until it is a larger than life problem. You also tend to let details trickle out, you rarely give the full truth on the first, second, or even third go around. So I'm anticipating that there will be more that you want to tell me, and I'm here to listen when you're ready to talk about it.

I am trying my damndest to fight all of my codependent tendencies that make me want to just show up, pack all of her stuff into my car and drive her over to my place. But at a certain point, where does this cross the line into abusive stuff where someone needs to step in?

I can't even imagine what she's going to spill the beans about tomorrow. If I don't reply tomorrow it'll be because I've been arrested for kicking this asshole in the nuts.

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 12:11 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

20yrsagoBS posted 12/2/2019 21:02 PM

HHADL,

I didnít see anything that made me think you were projecting to your daughter.

Perhaps you could tell her your experience with this Infidelity crap is offering priceless insight into the situation?

I would encourage her to run as well! Itís better to find out before children, marriage, and money is involved.


Whatís the saying?When someone shows you who they are, believe them?

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/3/2019 09:26 AM

HHADL, she's asking for your advice. You giving it in that context is not the same as a parent forbidding a teenager to see her BF.

She needs to dump this guy. Even if he isn't cheating (and it's obvious he is having an EA, at the least), the fact that he would say she'd be homeless if they broke up is unacceptable! Nope. His ass can hit the curb! Have you talked to her about how that's maliciously manipulative and abusive?

If she's on the fence, suggest they both read, Not Just Friends. A lot of males are seemingly unaware that a "friendship" could be cheating. As long as there is no physical contact, they think they're golden. If it ain't physical sex, it ain't cheating. Maybe his eyes need to be opened.

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/3/2019 09:34 AM

I'm trying to write a list of things I need from my fch to further our recovery. When we talk, he says he knows he will always be working on making himself a better person. My problem is now all those seemingly benign behaviors that I now see as part of his waywardness that he's not connecting. Every time I sit down to write it, my mind goes blank.

Little white lies that I can't prove, but I know in my gut he's still telling. Sometimes, I think maybe he's not even aware. That behavior is just so ingrained in him from his FOO and CoD.

Being present with the family.

Learning the difference between caring and being CoD. I think he's trying so hard to avoid being CoD that he's swung the pendulum all the way to the other side.

All or nothing thinking, again related to his CoD. We got in a discussion the other day about him not doing much but watching football on the weekends. He said he felt like I expected him to work his ass off all week and then come home and do the same, as in do everything. Um, no, but it sure would be nice if he'd scrub a toilet or mop a floor every once in awhile.

That's all I can come up with now. Maybe that's enough. It is kind of a lot. I don't want to overwhelm him. Any ideas, suggestions?

HeHadADoubleLife posted 12/3/2019 09:58 AM

Thanks ladies! I'm moving my big ass post on over to General so as not to overpower our BWz thread.

But yes, I have explained to her how incredibly manipulative that is. I know she knows it too, because she's hidden it for so long. I can recognize the signs of abuse when I see it... always pretending like everything is fine, giving vague answers when asked about the BF, when she just confide in me things that he says, some of the stuff is shocking, and when I assure her that these behaviors are not ok, she starts back tracking and making excuses for him.

Like I said, she usually doesn't bring stuff to me until it's already a huge problem. So the fact that she came to me yesterday and said it out loud means there is probably even more damning evidence that she just isn't ready to talk about yet.

Anyway, I'll move it all over to there, but just wanted to say thanks 20yrs and Coco for responding :)

And Coco, I think you're right in assuming that adding much more to that list for your husband might be detrimental. I mean, if your CH is conflict avoidant, coming to him with a giant list of (what he will perceive as) conflicts might just end in a blow out.

Personally I think the topic of the difference between caring and CoD is enough to cover an entire college course's worth of material. Almost every other thing can fall under that header - the lies, the avoiding spending time with family, avoiding responsibilities at home, etc.

That's the tough thing about CoD... almost every single behavior can fall under it. So I get that you want to give more concrete examples. Maybe just take your time to note when you have those little twinges of recognition. Take a few weeks to make a long list of examples, big and small, so that when you're explaining this to him you can provide multiple concrete examples.

Chaos posted 12/3/2019 10:09 AM

HHADL - oversimplified - she needs to dump him. He's full of crap.

I would encourage her to run as well! Itís better to find out before children, marriage, and money is involved.

Yup Yup and Yup! And...get tested while she's at it. Luck favors the prepared there.

And you aren't projecting. You are protecting. Big difference.

If she continues with him, she's setting herself up for indefinite misery.

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